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Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Thread


JohnnyU

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2 minutes ago, djmich said:

One side?

And you know destroy in this context means soundly beat in the debate…not thinking it means destroy AOC’s life.

It’s not about “soundly beating”. It’s about finding common ground. 
 

It’s about recognizing that neither side has a monopoly on good ideas. 
 

It’s about listening. 
 

if you go into a debate/argument thinking you have to “destroy” or “soundly beat” your opponent- then you are no longer debating ideas. 

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1 hour ago, Sinn Fein said:

It’s not about “soundly beating”. It’s about finding common ground. 
 

It’s about recognizing that neither side has a monopoly on good ideas. 
 

It’s about listening. 
 

if you go into a debate/argument thinking you have to “destroy” or “soundly beat” your opponent- then you are no longer debating ideas. 

what good ideas do the GOP have?

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10 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

Yes it does mean this. That shouldnt be controversial.  

To be fair... I think there are reasons to drop out of high school other than being a dunce. My uncle dropped out of high school to help my grandpa on the farm. On the other hand, my brother dropped out of high school because he hung out with a bunch of 20 year old losers when he was 15. So I think there is some wiggle room.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Max Power said:

So you think AOC's pride gets in the way of fixing her Grandma's house?

Sounds like AOC is in her own way re: helping her Grandma.

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19 hours ago, squistion said:

Her Grandma won't see a penny, so the house won't get fixed. This is just a mean spirited fund raising attempt to ridicule AOC and what she stands for, not to help her Grandma or anyone else in Puerto Rico who needs funds for housing assistance.

AOC nor any other Democratic legislator would ever accept any funds under these circumstances.  

Money talks, bull#### walks.

AOC walks, apparently.

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20 hours ago, Max Power said:

So you think AOC's pride gets in the way of fixing her Grandma's house?

 

20 hours ago, squistion said:

Her Grandma won't see a penny, so the house won't get fixed. This is just a mean spirited fund raising attempt to ridicule AOC and what she stands for, not to help her Grandma or anyone else in Puerto Rico who needs funds for housing assistance.

AOC nor any other Democratic legislator would ever accept any funds under these circumstances.  

So you didn't answer the question...

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14 hours ago, kodycutter said:

what good ideas do the GOP have?

LOL Republicans bad, good quick witted ribbing you have there.  Everyone knows only your side has the good ideas.

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I actually think it's a terrible look to slam Trump by saying "look how bad my granny has it."

Trump's gone.  At some point, let's move forward.  But the Democrat's main objective seems to be slamming Trump before accomplishing anything else.  

So in doing so, AOC says granny has it rough.  And Walsh is right.  This is an awful example.  Go pay for your granny's repairs.  

It's completely different if she comes out and says "It's time to get aid to Puerto Rico" and doesn't try to include her family in it--that she isn't helping.

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10 minutes ago, jm192 said:

LOL Republicans bad, good quick witted ribbing you have there.  Everyone knows only your side has the good ideas.

I think you missed on this one.    My notebook has SF as leaning D side and his post indicated we should recognize good ideas from both sides.   I just wanted to know from his perspective what he feels are the good ideas from the Republican side.   I voted Trump the last two times, but consider myself more in the center.

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43 minutes ago, jm192 said:

I actually think it's a terrible look to slam Trump by saying "look how bad my granny has it."

Trump's gone.  At some point, let's move forward.  But the Democrat's main objective seems to be slamming Trump before accomplishing anything else.  

So in doing so, AOC says granny has it rough.  And Walsh is right.  This is an awful example.  Go pay for your granny's repairs.  

It's completely different if she comes out and says "It's time to get aid to Puerto Rico" and doesn't try to include her family in it--that she isn't helping.

But Granny isn't gone. She and thousands of other Puerto Ricans are still suffering the consequences of never receiving all the aid that Trump promised. Hard to move forward when one can't afford the repairs or to rebuild.

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1 minute ago, squistion said:

But Granny isn't gone. She and thousands of other Puerto Ricans are still suffering the consequences of never receiving all the aid that Trump promised. Hard to move forward when one can't afford the repairs or to rebuild.

I'm not talking about Granny.  I'm talking about moving forward for Trump.

The issue is Puerto Rico.  First thing out of AOC's mouth:  Donald Trump, GOP, OMB, yada yada.  He hasn't been POTUS for 5 months and he's still the first talking point.  

Let's focus on taking care of granny.  Let's stop focusing on Trump.

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31 minutes ago, jm192 said:

I'm not talking about Granny.  I'm talking about moving forward for Trump.

The issue is Puerto Rico.  First thing out of AOC's mouth:  Donald Trump, GOP, OMB, yada yada.  He hasn't been POTUS for 5 months and he's still the first talking point.  

Let's focus on taking care of granny.  Let's stop focusing on Trump.

No, he hasn't, but this country (Puerto Rico in particular) are still feeling the consequences of his time in office and will continue to do for the next decade.

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Just now, Max Power said:

ABC's family is going to turn down the over 100k raised. 

Of course they will. This was nothing more than a publicity stunt. No politician of either party would accept funds raised specifically to ridicule and mock them as was done here, as it would be used against them in negative political ads that write themselves.

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Just now, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

I want people in Congress that try to take care of everyone's families.

Meanwhile Grandma suffers and is used as a tool.

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11 minutes ago, squistion said:

Of course they will. This was nothing more than a publicity stunt. No politician of either party would accept funds raised specifically to ridicule and mock them as was done here, as it would be used against them in negative political ads that write themselves.

It shows AOC isnt a leader or problem solver. She's just a complainer 

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3 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

If bringing attention to Grandma's plight alleviates the suffering of lots of other Grandmas, then maybe that's not such a terrible thing.  

For her flesh-and-blood, it's horrible to score points and not help her.

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Just now, IvanKaramazov said:

People who refuse to take care of their own families probably don't give a #### about yours.

I don't know how you reach that conclusion.  I'm much more worried about the people that only care about their own families.

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2 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

What's happening with the money?

Not sure, foxnews reported the family isnt accepting it. I dont know what GoFundMe does at that point

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1 minute ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

Hopefully they can figure out a way to use it to help other suffering Puerto Ricans.

I've heard of a certain grandma that could use it.

 

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21 minutes ago, squistion said:

Of course they will. This was nothing more than a publicity stunt. No politician of either party would accept funds raised specifically to ridicule and mock them as was done here, as it would be used against them in negative political ads that write themselves.

What do you think it was to post pictures of her grandmother's poor living conditions?  Oh a publicity stunt?

If she was actually concerned--she could easily help her grandmother.  

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6 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

I don't know how you reach that conclusion.  I'm much more worried about the people that only care about their own families.

I think it's a pretty logical conclusion.

If you think we should help everyone, then it probably starts at home.  If we're going to push socialist policies to tax people to help the less fortunate--how do you push for that and NOT help your less fortunate grandmother?

Everyone else should pay to help the less fortunate, but not AOC?

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Just now, jm192 said:

What do you think it was to post pictures of her grandmother's poor living conditions?  Oh a publicity stunt?

If she was actually concerned--she could easily help her grandmother.  

She is concerned for all the people suffering there.  Helping her grandma doesn't alleviate her concerns for the other 99.99% of Puerto Ricans.  

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Just now, jm192 said:

I think it's a pretty logical conclusion.

If you think we should help everyone, then it probably starts at home.  If we're going to push socialist policies to tax people to help the less fortunate--how do you push for that and NOT help your less fortunate grandmother?

Everyone else should pay to help the less fortunate, but not AOC?

As far as I know AOC pays her taxes.

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Just now, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

She is concerned for all the people suffering there.  Helping her grandma doesn't alleviate her concerns for the other 99.99% of Puerto Ricans.  

Let me know when she starts.

Maybe a before-and-after pic of her old/new house...

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Just now, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

As far as I know AOC pays her taxes.

I don't mean to imply she doesn't.  I'm saying she wants to tax people that are paying their taxes more to help pay for more socialist policies.  

It would stand to reason that you're the face of charity and giving if you believe such things are best.  

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19 minutes ago, identikit said:

Meanwhile Grandma suffers and is used as a tool.

Used as a tool by the right wing. AOC never asked for financial help, just used her as example of one of the many people in Puerto Rico still suffering the aftermath of the hurricane who never received all the funds Trump promised.

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3 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

She is concerned for all the people suffering there.  Helping her grandma doesn't alleviate her concerns for the other 99.99% of Puerto Ricans.  

But why even bring your grandmother into it then?

She was making a political point.  She brought her family into it.  It's poor taste at the very least.

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Just now, squistion said:

Used as a tool by the right wing. AOC never asked for financial help, just used her as example of one of the many people in Puerto Rico still suffering the aftermath of the hurricane who never received all the funds Trump promised.

AOC used her grandmother as a tool to remind everyone how bad Trump was.  She wanted to get her anti-republican points for the day.  Don't post pictures of your grandmother's poor living conditions and then tell me "this isn't about my grandmother."  

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Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, squistion said:

Used as a tool by the right wing. AOC never asked for financial help, just used her as example of one of the many people in Puerto Rico still suffering the aftermath of the hurricane who never received all the funds Trump promised.

That's exactly what she's doing.

More like demanding though.

She should help her own Grandma, since she has the means.

 

 

Edited by identikit
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Just now, jm192 said:

AOC used her grandmother as a tool to remind everyone how bad Trump was.  She wanted to get her anti-republican points for the day.  Don't post pictures of your grandmother's poor living conditions and then tell me "this isn't about my grandmother."  

Who says it isn't about her grandmother. It is about all people like and including her grandma that have not been able to do needed repairs or rebuilding because all the funds promised by Trump never arrived. 

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Just now, identikit said:

That's exactly what she' doing.

More like demanding though.

She should help her own Grandma, since she has the means.

How did she demand financial help? 

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2 minutes ago, squistion said:

Who says it isn't about her grandmother. It is about all people like and including her grandma that have not been able to do needed repairs or rebuilding because all the funds promised by Trump never arrived. 

She's still using her a political tool.  

Politicians shouldn't bring their family into their quibbles.  AOC took her shot at Trump for being awful.  She felt the need to bring her grandmother into it.  "My poor granny is suffering because of Trump."  You can slam Trump and leave your grandmother out of it.

And now the GOP are the ones bringing her grandmother into it for political points?  Come the heck on man.

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23 minutes ago, jm192 said:

She's still using her a political tool.  

Politicians shouldn't bring their family into their quibbles.  AOC took her shot at Trump for being awful.  She felt the need to bring her grandmother into it.  "My poor granny is suffering because of Trump."  You can slam Trump and leave your grandmother out of it.

And now the GOP are the ones bringing her grandmother into it for political points?  Come the heck on man.

If their extended family is suffering as a result of political decision, yes they should and have every right to talk about it.

She was personalizing that she knew first hand about the suffering in Puerto Rico and gives her credibility that she has some actual knowledge about what she is talking about.  

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, squistion said:

If their extended family is suffering as a result of political decision, yes they should and have every right to talk about it.

She was personalizing that she knew first hand about the suffering in Puerto Rico and gives her credibility that she has some actual knowledge about what she is talking about.  

She has the right to talk about anything she wants.  And Republicans have the right to respond to what she's talking about.  Let's be very clear @squistion I'm not saying she doesn't have the right.

I'm saying she is politicizing it.  She could have VERY easily brought attention to Peurto Rico without making it another Dems vs Republicans thing.  Everyone wants Unity and healing until they open their mouth.  

You want to play this game of "She has the right to talk about it."

But Republicans by responding to it are "using her as a political tool."

Most politicians don't talk about their families because this stuff happens.  She brought her poor old suffering grandmother up to garner sympathy points and once again take a shot at Trump.  She can do that.  She's allowed to do that.  She has the right to do that.  But make no mistake--that is using granny as a political tool, even if you want to lie to yourself and say it's not.

Edited by jm192
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1 minute ago, jm192 said:

She has the right to talk about anything she wants.  And Republicans have the right to respond to what she's talking about.  Let's be very clear @squistion I'm not saying she doesn't have the right.

I'm saying she is politicizing it.  She could have VERY easily brought attention to Peurto Rico without making it another Dems vs Republicans thing.  Everyone wants Unity and healing until they open their mouth.  

Yes, she could have but it wouldn't have gotten much attention, or probably the same amount as from other politicians in the continental US that have no connections to Puerto Rico (which is to say very little attention). 

And one can't talk about the suffering of these people in PR for not being able to repair or rebuild their hurricane damaged structures without mentioning the promised Trump aid that never arrived. It is impossible to discuss the current situation without discussing how it came about or why nothing has been done about it in some many years.

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5 minutes ago, squistion said:

Yes, she could have but it wouldn't have gotten much attention, or probably the same amount as from other politicians in the continental US that have no connections to Puerto Rico (which is to say very little attention). 

And one can't talk about the suffering of these people in PR for not being able to repair or rebuild their hurricane damaged structures without mentioning the promised Trump aid that never arrived. It is impossible to discuss the current situation without discussing how it came about or why nothing has been done about it in some many years.

I think it's pretty easy to say "Look at the suffering of Puerto Rico" and show generic pictures that aren't of your grandmother's home.  "It's time for the US to act."

She went the polarizing route because that's who she is.  

This is the fallout.  She's not a saint that's getting attacked.

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4 hours ago, jm192 said:

She's still using her a political tool.  

 

Yes, but with a larger context

AOC spends most of her campaign money in two areas 

1) On social media advertising in obscene quantity

2) On her gigantic media staff full of expensive heavy hitters

Her fundraising base has ZERO big money supporters. She doesn't have a roster of billionaires on call who will just write her checks and introduce her to their financial networks for even more money.  That she's aligned with Ilhan Omar and the implied Anti-Semitism means AOC is effectively cut off from major segments of big money and dark money. That means she can only maintain her operational budget ( that includes financially support most of the rest of the Squad as well, while  Omar can generate lots of  revenue, the other 6, including four newcomers cannot) is to get new low level donors in volume. Which means she needs to literally spam social media to stay the daily media cycle to garner the eyes and wallets of those new low level donors.

When there is nothing in the current news cycle that will generate viewers, clicks and donations, she has to fabricate something. I'm NOT saying there aren't real issues in Puerto Rico or in other areas that AOC has discussed in the past. But I am saying without hop scotching from outrage to outrage, she will lose her base funding.

That's the deal. That's what's happening.

I'll give her credit for this, to sustain what she's done for as long as she's done it is actually pretty incredible. It's basically someone gambling for a living full time and finding a way to actually pay the bills and keep food on the table for years without loan sharks breaking their legs.

AOC is actually not a very good politician. She's got guts and drive and passion and is fearless. She's got some worthy qualities on their own merits. But she's got a hell of a production team behind her. It's like when Simon Cowell convinced most of the world that Kelly Clarkson was a good singer.

AOC used her grandmother to pay her political rent. That's all this is about. She literally pimped an old woman out to meet her operational costs.

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