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Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Thread


JohnnyU

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Tim, it appears to me and probably to others here that you are projecting your opinion of what Ms Omar said into normal people. I'm not taking about the 33% crazies that will hate anything any D says because Hannity says so.

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Just now, Dedfin said:

Tim, it appears to me and probably to others here that you are projecting your opinion of what Ms Omar said into normal people. I'm not taking about the 33% crazies that will hate anything any D says because Hannity says so.

I am. But Omar is an afterthought. My overall point is that the public is starting to believe in the narrative that the Democrats are moving too far to the left. In terms of that narrative, Omar is about 10%, while AOC is 90%. 

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2 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I am. But Omar is an afterthought. My overall point is that the public is starting to believe in the narrative that the Democrats are moving too far to the left. In terms of that narrative, Omar is about 10%, while AOC is 90%. 

Okay. My bad I thought this was about Omar. My mistake. I agree with you to a degree. I will post later my thoughts.

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9 minutes ago, timschochet said:

1. Yes. I think they’re aware of what Omar said. 

2. No. Most of the opinion about AOC is based on what talking heads say about AOC. 

3. Yes. I think all of it is scaring the center. 

I see. So you think that the 2/10/19 Gallup poll took into account the 5:58 pm 2/10/19 tweet by Representative Omar?

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3 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Everyone here who disagrees with me (and that certainly seems to be a majority) please remember that my #1 priority, really my ONLY priority at the current time, is to see Donald Trump defeated in 2020. It’s all I care about in terms of politics. Everything else can wait. 

I totally can relate. My only fear when thinking about 2020 is to have a repeat of 2016 where the Sanders crew hated the Hillary crew so badly that it became practically another party.  I hope that no matter how competitive the primaries get, they all agree to do everything they can to keep the party together and keep their eye on the prize.  There will be 25 candidates in the Democratic race and all 25 will be 100 times better than Trump. They just have to make sure they don't self-sabotage the party. (Pray that Bernie doesn't run again)

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Just now, JuniorNB said:

I totally can relate. My only fear when thinking about 2020 is to have a repeat of 2016 where the Sanders crew hated the Hillary crew so badly that it became practically another party.  I hope that no matter how competitive the primaries get, they all agree to do everything they can to keep the party together and keep their eye on the prize.  There will be 25 candidates in the Democratic race and all 25 will be 100 times better than Trump. They just have to make sure they don't self-sabotage the party. (Pray that Bernie doesn't run again)

Bernie isn’t the problem. His followers could be. Even if Bernie doesn’t run again, his people are still around. 

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1 minute ago, timschochet said:

Bernie isn’t the problem. His followers could be. Even if Bernie doesn’t run again, his people are still around. 

I don't feel Bernie is all that innocent. He was very bitter about losing to Hillary in 2016.  The primary got a bit contentious and when she won, he was very hesitant about fully endorsing her. I had a lot of Bernie nuts on my Facebook and almost all of them said they weren't voting in the general because it was two horrible choices.  Bernie helped feed that early on. Sure, he dislikes Trump and made that clear, but his eventual half-hearted endorsement of Hillary didn't do a thing to turn his bitter supporters around.  I just hope he stays out of it this year. It's just going to be a repeat. His supporters are almost cultish.

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3 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Bernie isn’t the problem. His followers could be. Even if Bernie doesn’t run again, his people are still around. 

Yeah, god forbid the Democrats start listening to their base over special interests.

We tried the milquetoast centrist last time, she got smoked by a moron conman. Personally I am SO tired of Democrats who are afraid to be Democrats. As many problems as the GOP has, this isn't one of them.

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2 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

I don't feel Bernie is all that innocent. He was very bitter about losing to Hillary in 2016.  The primary got a bit contentious and when she won, he was very hesitant about fully endorsing her. I had a lot of Bernie nuts on my Facebook and almost all of them said they weren't voting in the general because it was two horrible choices.  Bernie helped feed that early on. Sure, he dislikes Trump and made that clear, but his eventual half-hearted endorsement of Hillary didn't do a thing to turn his bitter supporters around.  I just hope he stays out of it this year. It's just going to be a repeat. His supporters are almost cultish.

Thing is, all the energy was for Bernie. This is the young progressive wing of the party. 

No one, and I mean NO ONE was excited for Hillary Clinton. And I don't think any Bernie endorsement was going to change that, as stupid as I think his people not voting for Hillary was.

So maybe we should be endorsing the candidates that people actually like? Not saying it has to be Bernie.

There's a reason AOC is a big deal right now. She's tapping into something. I'd rather not ignore it to preserve the crappy status quo.

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7 minutes ago, Skoo said:

Yeah, god forbid the Democrats start listening to their base over special interests.

We tried the milquetoast centrist last time, she got smoked by a moron conman. Personally I am SO tired of Democrats who are afraid to be Democrats. As many problems as the GOP has, this isn't one of them.

No it certainly isn’t. The GOP doesn’t have a problem with the Tea Party; they just give in to them every time. They even got one elected President.  Let’s follow their example! 

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Just now, Skoo said:

Thing is, all the energy was for Bernie. This is the young progressive wing of the party. 

No one, and I mean NO ONE was excited for Hillary Clinton. And I don't think any Bernie endorsement was going to change that, as stupid as I think his people not voting for Hillary was.

So maybe we should be endorsing the candidates that people actually like? Not saying it has to be Bernie.

There's a reason AOC is a big deal right now. She's tapping into something. I'd rather not ignore it to preserve the crappy status quo.

I don't disagree at all about Bernie's energy. But there was a point when he had lost and as a Democrat, and someone who was well-aware of what a disgusting human being Trump is, it was his responsibility to shift as much of that energy into the Democratic candidate's corner. He failed to do that. Or even attempt to do that.  He was disappointed and he reveled in his supporters bitterness. And he let it fester. Bernie supporters hated Hillary as much as they hated Trump. And that's why we have President Trump.

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26 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Part of confirmation bias is rejecting information that contradicts your assumptions. If you think I am doing that, please explain how. 

In your original post you dismissed the obvious reason for the poll bump (shutdown end) and in another thread I believe you dismissed the SOTU bump.  

You said Omar is moving public opinion and pointed to this poll. I pointed out that’s impossible.  Then you agreed the poll was not evidence but said she’s doing it anyway. 

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3 minutes ago, timschochet said:

No it certainly isn’t. The GOP doesn’t have a problem with the Tea Party; they just give in to them every time. They even got one elected President.  Let’s follow their example! 

First of all, let's not act like the Tea Party and Dem progressives are the same thing.

Secondly, that's not at all what I was saying. What I was saying is that Republicans embrace their agenda and don't back down from it, unlike Democrats.

Gun control is a prime example.

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Just now, Henry Ford said:

In your original post you dismissed the obvious reason for the poll bump (shutdown end) and in another thread I believe you dismissed the SOTU bump.  

You said Omar is moving public opinion and pointed to this poll. I pointed out that’s impossible.  Then you agreed the poll was not evidence but said she’s doing it anyway. 

I didn’t blame her for the poll. I said she is contributing to the narrative. 

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2 hours ago, JuniorNB said:

I like Booker too.  Need to know more about Beto.  In this early stage, Harris, Beto, and Booker have my interest.  That will likely change multiple times.

These are the three I like also. Though I've some concern about Harris's past as a prosecutor. I worry she will be "tough on crime" and not for significant criminal justice reform.

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1 minute ago, Skoo said:

First of all, let's not act like the Tea Party and Dem progressives are the same thing.

Secondly, that's not at all what I was saying. What I was saying is that Republicans embrace their agenda and don't back down from it, unlike Democrats.

Gun control is a prime example.

Gun control is a negative example. They’re against it. Democrats are against the wall and they’ve held their ground on that. Far easier to be unified opposing something than it is being unified in favor of something. Look what happened to the Republicans when they tried to replace Obamacare with their own plan. How did that turn out? 

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1 minute ago, timschochet said:

Not what I meant sir

 

1 hour ago, timschochet said:

The public does not. She’s helping Trump. 

 

1 hour ago, Dedfin said:

Nope

 

1 hour ago, timschochet said:

OK then she’s not helping Trump. Just ignore the recent polling. Why not? Hey if conservatives can create their own alternative reality, we should all be able to do so, right? 

 

1 hour ago, Dedfin said:

Link to the polls?

 

56 minutes ago, timschochet said:

 

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37 minutes ago, Opie said:

Understatement ... hell, she could have been the leader of an international crime syndicate and Tim would have still voted for her

....oh, wat... 🙄

At this point I kind of pity the trolls. They just seem so defeated.

Low energy. SAD!

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46 minutes ago, Skoo said:

First of all, let's not act like the Tea Party and Dem progressives are the same thing.

Secondly, that's not at all what I was saying. What I was saying is that Republicans embrace their agenda and don't back down from it, unlike Democrats.

Gun control is a prime example.

Wat?  Republicans back down from their agenda almost all the time.

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51 minutes ago, whoknew said:

These are the three I like also. Though I've some concern about Harris's past as a prosecutor. I worry she will be "tough on crime" and not for significant criminal justice reform.

This doesn't really concern me. Her kob as a prosecutor was to be tough on crime. Her job as president would not 

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12 hours ago, timschochet said:

I am for this. And I suspect her solution as to how to do this it pretty much the same as mine: 

As of yesterday the national debt is 22 trillion. We pass a law clearing all student loans, and now the national debt is 23.4 trillion. 

There you go. Outside of infrastructure, there might be no single better investment for our economy. 

Ultimately I'm for this too - but I have to admit it will be a kick in the teeth that I paid my 50k back and the person down the street gets his wiped away.

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3 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

Ultimately I'm for this too - but I have to admit it will be a kick in the teeth that I paid my 50k back and the person down the street gets his wiped away.

It’s this mindset that is preventing Medicare for all. (In my opinion)

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Just now, Dickies said:

It’s this mindset that is preventing Medicare for all. (In my opinion)

And BIG, and lots of things.  In a number of areas we've stopped wanting to make things better for the next generation and started wanting them to have to struggle like we did.

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13 hours ago, Henry Ford said:

I will vote for any candidate who I believe is honest, intelligent, hard working, open minded, and wants to help people. 

This, in a nutshell, is why I was all-in with Bernie in 2016.  The only one I think that is even arguable is open minded - he ticks the boxes on all the rest.  I understand that we all assumed that there's a level of dishonesty we just have to accept with politicians.  I felt like Bernie changes that mindset.  We can and should expect better.  If all of these guys would just do those things and then honestly discuss policy differences we would all benefit.

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52 minutes ago, whoknew said:

These are the three I like also. Though I've some concern about Harris's past as a prosecutor. I worry she will be "tough on crime" and not for significant criminal justice reform.

This doesn't really concern me. Her kob as a prosecutor was to be tough on crime. Her job as president would not 

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14 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

And BIG, and lots of things.  In a number of areas we've stopped wanting to make things better for the next generation and started wanting them to have to struggle like we did.

While I get your point and I agree with the bolded, BIG and Medicare for all are something that everyone can see they are getting a piece of the pie (so to speak).  People having student loans wiped away feels different because not everyone went to school and many either struggled to pay for school or to pay back loans.  I don't think it's wrong for somebody to feel like it's unfair but I would hope they could be adult enough to realize that life isn't fair and this is something that is for the greater good.

One thing could be for those that didn't go to college to allow them to go for free under this plan - even if we don't implement free college across the board.

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1 minute ago, AAABatteries said:

While I get your point and I agree with the bolded, BIG and Medicare for all are something that everyone can see they are getting a piece of the pie (so to speak).  People having student loans wiped away feels different because not everyone went to school and many either struggled to pay for school or to pay back loans.  I don't think it's wrong for somebody to feel like it's unfair but I would hope they could be adult enough to realize that life isn't fair and this is something that is for the greater good.

One thing could be for those that didn't go to college to allow them to go for free under this plan - even if we don't implement free college across the board.

I don't think they help people on Social Security.

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1 minute ago, Henry Ford said:

I don't think they help people on Social Security.

Even if a BIG proposal excludes those folks it doesn't make my bigger point invalid - feel free to include that number in the group of people who would feel it's unfair.  I'm not sure if you find my comment controversial but I'm just saying that folks feeling that way is to be expected.  I think a better approach is to acknowledge that it is unfair but explain why it's still a good idea.

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10 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

You mean the mindset that it's a kick in the teeth and they oppose it?  Because I said I'm for it.  It's just human nature (I think) to feel the way I would.

Yes, that part. The notion that it’s unfair X person gets something that Y person has paid more for.  

I know you said you’re for it, but I imagine the primary argument against will be what you said

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2 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

Even if a BIG proposal excludes those folks it doesn't make my bigger point invalid - feel free to include that number in the group of people who would feel it's unfair.  I'm not sure if you find my comment controversial but I'm just saying that folks feeling that way is to be expected.  I think a better approach is to acknowledge that it is unfair but explain why it's still a good idea.

I agree it isn't a shocker that people feel that way.  I'm not saying it's "controversial" that you acknowledge that, I'm just saying we've gone so far afield from "the only reason to look into your neighbor's bowl is to make certain he has enough" that we may never find our way back.

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18 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

While I get your point and I agree with the bolded, BIG and Medicare for all are something that everyone can see they are getting a piece of the pie (so to speak).  People having student loans wiped away feels different because not everyone went to school and many either struggled to pay for school or to pay back loans.  I don't think it's wrong for somebody to feel like it's unfair but I would hope they could be adult enough to realize that life isn't fair and this is something that is for the greater good.

One thing could be for those that didn't go to college to allow them to go for free under this plan - even if we don't implement free college across the board.

Yes, and it’s disproportionately the poor who never went to college. I understand (extremely well) that student loans are burdensome and unpleasant. I don’t understand why we’d want to transfer money to people with student loans before we transfer money to people without homes. I mean, I understand politically — it’s because college grads as a group have more political clout than the homeless do. But aside from that, I don’t think forgiving student loans should be a top priority.

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