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The Mollie Tibbetts Murder — Political Version


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1 hour ago, TobiasFunke said:

This is so wrong it's actually kind of impressive. First, ICE just 15 years old- which would mean that according to you we had open borders until 2003. Second, ICE doesn't even patrol the border. CBP does.  Third, Pelosi has explicitly said she doesn't want to abolish ICE. Here's a story on it from today (last couple paragraphs).

Maybe next time take 30 seconds to make sure you have some idea what the hell you're talking about before posting, so almost everything you say isn't quite so spectacularly wrong?

 

30 Seconds? When others can't take 2 seconds to read something, 30 seconds is asking a lot. 

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26 minutes ago, dawgtrails said:

To: xzins

To be fair - it wasn’t just politicians that killed Mollie.

You must add in the Educrats and our school systems that filled her little head with mush.

She was no different than any 20 year old taught in America. Indoctrinated to believe in the goodness of muzzies, illegals and other dangerous types.

 

7 posted on 8/23/2018, 9:57:00 AM by Responsibility2nd

[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

:lol:

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26 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Who said it was good.  I can understand why some people do illegal things.  I can sympathize with certain people.  Every situation is different.  I don't fault someone for doing everything they can to escape terrible living conditions and going to a place where they can live a good life.  It's natural.

Just like you I want them to do it legally but I don't think that's always an option for everyone.

This sounds like "the end justifies the means". And that can be a slippery slope when applied to other crimes. 

This is a country built on laws. Follow them or don't follow them. That's for each to decide. Punishment should never be up for debate as long as the law is in the books. 

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10 minutes ago, KCitons said:

 Punishment should never be up for debate as long as the law is in the books. 

Agreed, but what sort of punishment? 

I believe that the proper punishment for a person who broke the law by coming here should be a fine, and if the person was a small child or younger when they came there should be no punishment at all. Hardliners on this issue believe the proper punishment is immediate deportation. I think that’s wrong. 

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3 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Agreed, but what sort of punishment? 

I believe that the proper punishment for a person who broke the law by coming here should be a fine, and if the person was a small child or younger when they came there should be no punishment at all. Hardliners on this issue believe the proper punishment is immediate deportation. I think that’s wrong. 

So basically open borders with a surcharge?

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25 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I have never met a person who wants open borders. I’m rather extreme on this issue, much more extreme than the vast majority of Democrats (not to mention Americans) and even I don’t want open borders. I want open immigration, available to all who want to come so long as they are not felons, terrorists, or health risks, but in an orderly, legal fashion. I know I’ll never get that. And I want amnesty and a path to citiizenship for the undocumented people already here if they pay a fine for breaking the law and don’t commit felonies. I DO expect that someday I might get that. 

Just curious....any limit to the number of people?

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4 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Agreed, but what sort of punishment? 

I believe that the proper punishment for a person who broke the law by coming here should be a fine, and if the person was a small child or younger when they came there should be no punishment at all. Hardliners on this issue believe the proper punishment is immediate deportation. I think that’s wrong. 

Why do you believe that? I guess it comes down to how we enforce other punishments. Sometimes they remover the item or privilege from the criminal. Many want to keep guns (or take guns away) from someone that commits a violent crime. When it comes to DUI, we take away a drivers license. Why should performing an illegal act to gain entry result in anything other than taking back what they gained?

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Just now, KCitons said:

Why do you believe that? I guess it comes down to how we enforce other punishments. Sometimes they remover the item or privilege from the criminal. Many want to keep guns (or take guns away) from someone that commits a violent crime. When it comes to DUI, we take away a drivers license. Why should performing an illegal act to gain entry result in anything other than taking back what they gained?

Good question. I have two answers, one practical and one idealistic: 

First the practical answer: the people I’m most concerned with are not the ones caught in the act of crossing our borders, but the ones who have lived here for several years and been law abiding during that time. Yes they still deserve to be punished but IMO the nature of that punishment must be conditioned by the life they’ve lived since the crime was committed. To use your DUI example; if you received proof that 10 years ago someone committed the illegal act of driving while intoxicated, but then learned that, though he was never punished for it, in the 10 years since he’s been completely sober, would you still remove his license? I would not. A fine, a slap on the wrist, and move on. 

Now the idealistic answer: this “crime” that is being committed is a positive one for our society. It hurts no one in itself. The desire to come to the United States is a good desire. Though coming here illegally is against the law and I agree must be against the law, the punishment should be very different from one in which the action directly harms others. 

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7 minutes ago, matttyl said:

So if 10m wanted to come in tomorrow, let them?  Allow them all to vote from day 1?

1. Yes. 

2. No.  Personally I would not allow ANY immigrants to vote. I would change the laws and stipulate that you must be born in the United States or USA territory to vote. 

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47 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I have never met a person who wants open borders. I’m rather extreme on this issue, much more extreme than the vast majority of Democrats (not to mention Americans) and even I don’t want open borders. I want open immigration, available to all who want to come so long as they are not felons, terrorists, or health risks, but in an orderly, legal fashion. I know I’ll never get that. And I want amnesty and a path to citiizenship for the undocumented people already here if they pay a fine for breaking the law and don’t commit felonies. I DO expect that someday I might get that. 

:hijacked:

“ look at me guys , pay attention to me”

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2 minutes ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

Sure

But i think calling out someone for lashing out 5 minutes after you've lashed out is kinda silly, don't you?

No.  Check the context, champ.  BB posts some wacko theory about the American education system being to blame for this poor kid's death.  He's got nothing else so he's just flinging poop at every wall he can see.

I specifically pointed that out with my comment about all his heroes going to jail.   

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Just now, roadkill1292 said:

Don't be coy, you're not good at it. I think we need a "why" here.

I think that if we restricted voting to people born here, it would alleviate a lot of conservative fears about immigration. That’s not the only reason either. 

But this is just fantasy. Never happen in a million years so it’s not even worth arguing about. 

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Just now, timschochet said:

I think that if we restricted voting to people born here, it would alleviate a lot of conservative fears about immigration. That’s not the only reason either. 

But this is just fantasy. Never happen in a million years so it’s not even worth arguing about. 

Well, there's a few of them in this thread, let's ask them if that's what would happen. How about it, righties, is the prospect of those funny brown people coming here and casting ballots a thing that bothers you a lot?

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17 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Good question. I have two answers, one practical and one idealistic: 

First the practical answer: the people I’m most concerned with are not the ones caught in the act of crossing our borders, but the ones who have lived here for several years and been law abiding during that time. Yes they still deserve to be punished but IMO the nature of that punishment must be conditioned by the life they’ve lived since the crime was committed. To use your DUI example; if you received proof that 10 years ago someone committed the illegal act of driving while intoxicated, but then learned that, though he was never punished for it, in the 10 years since he’s been completely sober, would you still remove his license? I would not. A fine, a slap on the wrist, and move on. 

Now the idealistic answer: this “crime” that is being committed is a positive one for our society. It hurts no one in itself. The desire to come to the United States is a good desire. Though coming here illegally is against the law and I agree must be against the law, the punishment should be very different from one in which the action directly harms others. 

Is a 13 year old child of an illegal immigrant, that crossed the border illegally 10 years ago, a positive for our society? Maybe. Maybe not. We have statutes of limitations on lots of things. However, every day that they live in this country, the crime becomes new for that day. Not retroactive to 10 years ago when they crossed the border. 

As to the bolded, I will use another comparison that people won't like. The statement that all guns need to be registered in order to make tracking when a crime is committed, is comparable to all people being accounted for when a crime is committed. Mollie Tibbetts is an example of that. If her killer was here using false documents, he could have changed his name and disappeared. It did hurt someone in this example.

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5 minutes ago, roadkill1292 said:

Well, there's a few of them in this thread, let's ask them if that's what would happen. How about it, righties, is the prospect of those funny brown people coming here and casting ballots a thing that bothers you a lot?

Doesn't bother me at all.  If they come here legally and become a U.S. citizen they should vote.

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5 minutes ago, roadkill1292 said:

Well, there's a few of them in this thread, let's ask them if that's what would happen. How about it, righties, is the prospect of those funny brown people coming here and casting ballots a thing that bothers you a lot?

It's certainly not as bad as killing someone. I'm not a rightie. Follow the rules, be known that you are in this country = vote. Sneak across in the cover of darkness and dodge the system = no vote + a one way ticket back across the border. 

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10 minutes ago, roadkill1292 said:

Well, there's a few of them in this thread, let's ask them if that's what would happen. How about it, righties, is the prospect of those funny brown people coming here and casting ballots a thing that bothers you a lot?

Where do you guys come up with this crap :lol:

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50 minutes ago, dawgtrails said:

What does "allowing them vote" have to do with anything?

Just asking a question.  Interesting, to me, that your response seems to be in the "why wouldn't we" category, while his was a simple "no" to voting rights to anyone not born here. 

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42 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I think that if we restricted voting to people born here, it would alleviate a lot of conservative fears about immigration. That’s not the only reason either. 

But this is just fantasy. Never happen in a million years so it’s not even worth arguing about. 

Looks like you got some stinky  :fishing:  bait there.   

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57 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

They can't possibly be any worse than 62.9 million of the people already here.

62.9m what?  I've never seen that number about anything related to immigration.  It's, ironically enough, the number of people who voted for Trump.

I just threw out the 10m number.  Currently we have about 1.5m immigrants a year immigrate to the US.  Just seeing if Tim would be ok with a ~7x increase overnight.

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Just now, dawgtrails said:

Just seems like an odd question to start out with, that's all. 

Why?  Lets not pretend that an immediate influx of 10m foreign born immigrants tomorrow wouldn't drastically change regional, state, and national elections.  I'm not saying it's a good or a bad thing, but it would happen.  No, I didn't vote for Trump - so it's not about that at all.

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10 minutes ago, matttyl said:

Why?  Lets not pretend that an immediate influx of 10m foreign born immigrants tomorrow wouldn't drastically change regional, state, and national elections.  I'm not saying it's a good or a bad thing, but it would happen.  No, I didn't vote for Trump - so it's not about that at all.

My first questions would be more along the lines of how does this affect our schools, or what happens to our unemployment rate, or where are these 10 million people going to live, etc. That's all

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4 minutes ago, rodg12 said:

I just can't with @butcher boy's comment about school system.  Yes, the liberal bastion that is BGM Community Schools.  :lmao::lmao::lmao: 

We have tons of schools pushing liberal agendas in rural Iowa.  You know how rural Iowans love their liberal agendas. :loco:  I'm not sure how butcher boy is allowed to post on here with the terrible content he provides.

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1 minute ago, dawgtrails said:

My first questions would be more along the lines of how does this affect our schools, or what happens to our unemployment rate, or where are these 10 million people going to live, etc. That's all

While we already have a lot of people living in the country there are still lots of areas with low populations.  All you have to do is be able to tolerate some cold and lack of major cities.

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Just now, dawgtrails said:

My first questions would be more along the lines of how does this affect our schools, or what happens to our unemployment rate, or where are these 10 million people going to live, etc. That's all

Sure, all valid questions, no doubt.  So, would you be in favor, like Tim, of allowing those 10m into out country over the next say month or so?

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10 minutes ago, matttyl said:

Sure, all valid questions, no doubt.  So, would you be in favor, like Tim, of allowing those 10m into out country over the next say month or so?

Two points:

1. First off, this is a misrepresentation of my position. I would allow them in after a proper vetting period. Which means we make sure they're not felons, not violent, not public health risks, not terrorists. That takes a lot longer than a month.

2. Second, I don't want to get hung up in this thread on hypothetical arguments. What I want with regard to open immigration is a non-starter and I know that. I only brought it up to explain how I do not believe in "open borders" and I know of nobody who does. What we really should focus on in this thread is the agenda being pushed by President Trump, because he is the one attempting to use the death of this poor young woman for political means, not I. 

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17 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

While we already have a lot of people living in the country there are still lots of areas with low populations.  All you have to do is be able to tolerate some cold and lack of major cities.

And lack of jobs and infrastructure.

Edited by jonessed
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Just now, dawgtrails said:

I think letting only people born here vote to be a ridiculous take though

To that extreme, I do as well.  What might be a valid question, though, is if someone who just moved here say last week should get the same vote as someone who's lived here their whole life.  Just a thought that hit me with what he said above. 

I'll concur with him, though, that's it's not what should be being discussed in this thread about a recent young lady's murder.  Maybe best for another thread.

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So matttyl, rather than worry about my idealistic positions which will never happen, lets discuss what President Trump wants to happen, which is at least possible. His response to the death of this girl is:

1. Full funding for the proposed wall on our southern border so that it will be constructed ASAP.

2. An end to what he calls "chain migration"- the ability of legal immigrants to invite certain close family members to apply for citizenship.

3. An end to our current immigration lottery system, and replace it with a merit based system, where we decide the type of immigrant we want based on need, with an emphasis on college educated professionals.

4. A large crackdown on undocumented immigrants already here, including mass deportations, with the cooperation of ICE and local law enforcement (which means an end to the practice of "sanctuary cities.")

 

It will come as no surprise to you that I am STRONGLY opposed to each and every one of these proposals.  But what is your position?

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