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The Clay Mathews “Roughing” Call... (1 Viewer)

Zero wrong with this hit.

- Defensive players have a right to hit QBs in the act of throwing. It's not a pile drive, it's not low, it's not at the head. The league is just going to call this randomly throughout the season and it will affect games, like a bullet just falling from the sky. Oh well.

 
davearm said:
I am trying to understand how anyone watching that play saw Cousins being lifted.
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In this case lifted means turned and/or twisted so as to end up with the result of Cousins on topmand Matthews on the bottom.

Look. I see it. You don't. It's cool. Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder. 

 
Andy Dufresne said:
"I don't know what else to do".

Dont end up in top you learning disabled mongoloid.
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Andy Dufresne said:
In this case lifted means turned and/or twisted so as to end up with the result of Cousins on topmand Matthews on the bottom.
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This is actually what happens when a man hits another man when running at him so as to hit him in such a way as to put him on the ground.

This is not a mystery. I see what you're saying. I think everyone does. What has happened is that the league has made a totally natural part of the game - tackling with force at a run - illegal when it is applied to the QB.

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
This is actually what happens when a man hits another man when running at him so as to hit him in such a way as to put him on the ground.

This is not a mystery. I see what you're saying. I think everyone does. What has happened is that the league has made a totally natural part of the game - tackling with force at a run - illegal when it is applied to the QB.
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Okay. Seems we're getting closer.

What was the necessity of Matthews taking Cousins to the ground? And in taking him to the ground,  without the football mind you, what was the necessity in ending up on top of him?

 
Andy Dufresne said:
Okay. Seems we're getting closer.

What was the necessity of Matthews taking Cousins to the ground? And in taking him to the ground,  without the football mind you, what was the necessity in ending up on top of him?
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Matthews' head is already past Cousin's body when Cousins releases the ball. At that point as far as CM knows Cousins has the ball and it's absolutely imperative he be tackled as fast and as hard as possible. He is paid millions to do just that.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Matthews' head is already past Cousin's body when Cousins releases the ball. At that point as far as CM knows Cousins has the ball and it's absolutely imperative he be tackled as fast and as hard as possible. He is paid millions to do just that.
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Plus, the way Matthews tucked his head the way he did seemed to be to avoid hitting him with his helmet, but the official misinterpreted that as him lowering himself to drive him into the ground.  So basically, the defenders can't win. 

 
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The average NFL play is about 5 seconds. In that 5 second time span you have 7 guys trying to instantly interpret a 200+ page rule book, with ever changing content and a zillion rules that have more than a few contradictions that are left up to the referee to interpret ("Football Move??"). These 7 guys are attempting to instantly oversee, legislate and perform a psychological evaluation (was he trying to bodyslam the QB or figure out what flavor aftershave he's wearing) of twenty two 250 pound turbocharged minicars disguised as athletes flying around in a hundred different misdirections at up to 20 MPH on a 57,000 square foot field that has been scientifically enhanced to extract every tenth of a second worth of turbo power from these cars that perform the equivalent of an orchestrated 22 car freeway pileup every 30 seconds. And after everyone of these pileups they get an instantaneous performance review using state of the art camera technology that looks at a super duper slow motion view of a dozen angles of that previous 5 second demolition derby they don't have privee to in their 5 seconds. The people who get to pass judgement on these reviews and have the dozen slo-mo angles and five times the amount of time to determine right from wrong are sitting with their noses pressed on the screen of a 75inch 4K TV with a view of the ball stretched its full length. Along with their 8th budwiser in hand and an announcer in his ear telling him what he's seeing.

I think being an NFL referee is a hell of a lot harder than being an NFL QB. Unless you can do a better job, shut your cake hole and suck it up. They're human and until you take that factor out of the game, you're stuck with human fallacies. 

You better refereeing? Spend some of the 10's of millions of dollars these guys make and the tens of billions of dollars the owners and networks make and put computer chips in every players brain and more sensors in everything and everybody, and let computers do the refereeing. Instantaneous and nobody to ##### at. 

Even better yet, lets take the humans out of the game entirely and just do NFL Battle Bots.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
This is actually what happens when a man hits another man when running at him so as to hit him in such a way as to put him on the ground.

This is not a mystery. I see what you're saying. I think everyone does. What has happened is that the league has made a totally natural part of the game - tackling with force at a run - illegal when it is applied to the QB.
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I am ok with this because (a) the QB is the only player (sans punter/kicker/holder) who is expected to play stationary in a prone position; and (b) the game sucks when the elite QBs are not able to play.  

 
Andy Dufresne said:
Okay. Seems we're getting closer.

What was the necessity of Matthews taking Cousins to the ground? And in taking him to the ground,  without the football mind you, what was the necessity in ending up on top of him?
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Because, unlike Barr last year he had no way of knowing or seeing that the ball was released.  It might not have been.  Unlike the Barr play he did not drive him into the turf and intentionally land on top of him, his momentum carried him in that direction and he did make an effort to not do so.  Otherwise, though, you are completely correct, there was a football game.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Matthews' head is already past Cousin's body when Cousins releases the ball. At that point as far as CM knows Cousins has the ball and it's absolutely imperative he be tackled as fast and as hard as possible. He is paid millions to do just that.
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This is no longer the case.  It is the basis for these new rules protecting the QB.

 
Andy Dufresne said:
In this case lifted means turned and/or twisted so as to end up with the result of Cousins on topmand Matthews on the bottom.

Look. I see it. You don't. It's cool. Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder. 
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Lifted means turned?  Are you even hearing yourself?

 
Short Corner said:
This is no longer the case.  It is the basis for these new rules protecting the QB.
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Well the as fast as possible still applies.  The as hard does not but by Clay putting his left arm done to brace their fall, tells me he didn't try to tackle Cousins as hard as possible.

 
Wheel out 87-year-old Red Cashion. Set him up with a monitor and the Red Zone Channel. Every time one of these "roughing" calls comes up, it goes to Cashion to deliver the ultimate judgement.

Cashion is given just one instruction: "Call it like you did in the 1980s."

 
The NFL is going to protect star players - QB doubly so. 

If that's not your game anymore, perhaps MMA is more your speed.

 
I'll try to simplify what I see the NFL calling even more. 

If, when a QB appears to be throwing a pass, you end up on top of him - don't be surprised when you're called for a penalty. 

 
Normal Packers issues. Win a lot of games. Throw a big fit cry just like their qb when they don't win. Matthews popped Trubisky from behind and hit him in the head after he let go of the ball last week. Nothing. You can't even breathe on Rodgers without getting a penalty called. Nothing to see here. 

 
Kitrick Taylor said:
Usually agree with you on a lot of stuff, but you could not be more wrong here.  Look at this video here, and tell me how he is supposed to know whether or not the ball is gone, and (2) how he should have tackled him differently.  

https://deadspin.com/a-bull####-penalty-let-the-vikings-tie-the-packers-1829095434
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As others have pointed out, Mathews uses his left arm to brace the impact in an effort to protect the quarterback. Its the opposite of driving him into the ground.

 
flapgreen said:
Normal Packers issues. Win a lot of games. Throw a big fit cry just like their qb when they don't win. Matthews popped Trubisky from behind and hit him in the head after he let go of the ball last week. Nothing. You can't even breathe on Rodgers without getting a penalty called. Nothing to see here. 
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LOL still bitter about last week I see.  Funny thing is a lot of Non Packer fans chiming in saying it was a BS call. Oh for the record so was the call on Kendricks in the first half.  And last week's late hit call on Matthews was totally legit.

 
Short Corner said:
I am ok with this because (a) the QB is the only player (sans punter/kicker/holder) who is expected to play stationary in a prone position; and (b) the game sucks when the elite QBs are not able to play.  
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I think we're clearer now. I agree with your premise, we just value a different kind of game. Personally I enjoy the game that has had great success for now 100 seasons. I realize before that this was a game that actually resulted in deaths. Modifications have been made before.

But I think the primary problem is that people want assured rules, fairness, and competitive balance. Rules like this are harmful to football because they will be unevenly and inherently unfairly applied. So in one game I guarantee you the same kind of tackle will be penalized and in another it won't be. Games will be decided seemingly on the whim of a ref. Fans will be left angry and feeling like the game is not fair. It is confusing and players who are basically tackling the QB holding the ball will be penalized at some point in a game and yet at another they will not be. So fans will be upset and the game will be less enjoyable. People by and large enjoy the game of football, and yes it's a trillion dollar money machine so like everything else with Goodell why should he care. He doesn't.

 
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Short Corner said:
Not any more it isn't.  The NFL is protecting it's stars. 
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I don't want to get into a metaphysical debate. To me football is a game with certain immutable characteristics and if you change those characteristics it's not the game anymore. To you the game is whatever they decide it is. They could send them out with shuttlecocks and kitchen mitts, call it football and it would be football. I don't want to argue this point as it's philosophical, I certainly respect your POV.

 
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flapgreen said:
Normal Packers issues. Win a lot of games. Throw a big fit cry just like their qb when they don't win. Matthews popped Trubisky from behind and hit him in the head after he let go of the ball last week. Nothing. You can't even breathe on Rodgers without getting a penalty called. Nothing to see here. 
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You can stomp on his leg when he is down without consequence as did Suh.  You can take two steps, launch, and drive him to the turf breaking his collarbone, as did Barr, but no, you can't breath on him. 

My memory was that Matthews was called for a hit on Trubisky last week, but my memory is probably not as good as yours.  My memory was that it kept alive the Bears hopes in a desperation drive that had otherwise been stopped on fourth down.  BTW, when the second Bear landed on Rodgers, who was giving himself up, and was then subsequently injured, was there a flag because if not it makes your point more than a bit wrong. 

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
I think we're clearer now. I agree with your premise, we just value a different kind of game. Personally I enjoy the game that has had great success for now 100 seasons. I realize before that this was a game that actually resulted in deaths. Modifications have been made before.

But I think the primary problem is that people want assured rules, fairness, and competitive balance. Rules like this are harmful to football because they will be unevenly and inherently unfairly applied. So in one game I guarantee you the same kind of tackle will be penalized and in another it won't be. Games will be decided seemingly on the whim of a ref. Fans will be left angry and feeling like the game is not fair. It is confusing and players who are basically tackling the QB holding the ball will be penalized at some point in a game and yet at another they will not be. So fans will be upset and the game will be less enjoyable. People by and large enjoy the game of football, and yes it's a trillion dollar money machine so like everything else with Goodell why should he care. He doesn't.
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This is true of all sports.  The consequences are little more punitive in FB given the lower number of possessions.

 
Ditkaless Wonders said:
You can stomp on his leg when he is down.  You can take two steps, launch, and drive him to the turf breaking his collarbone, but no, you can't breath on him. 

My memory was that Matthews was called for a hit on Trubisky last week, but my memory is probably not as good as yours.  BTW, when the second bear landed on Rodgers, who was giving himself up, and was then subsequently injured, was there a flag because if not it makes your point more than a bit wrong.? 
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The broken collar bone is one of the types of plays they are trying to get rid of with this rule.

 
Andy Dufresne said:
Actually, that Deadspin video shows it really well.

Matthews hits Cousins as he's throwing (or close enough for arguments sake) but then drives him diagonally with his next step - resulting in his ending up on top of Cousins. I'll agree he couldn't avoid the contact but maintain that he didn't need to end up on top of him. The second part is what the NFL is trying to avoid - his the Barr/Rodgers situation.
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If he didn't wrap his arm around Cousins' leg and would have just rolled off of him I don't think there would have been a penalty.  From that view (Deadspin video) I can see how/why the back ref threw the flag.  It looks like Matthews was "burping" the QB and that is a point of emphasis this year - so, deal with it or watch soccer? 

P.S.  Viking fan who doesn't think that should be "roughing" the QB (nor the roughing on Kendricks earlier)

P.S.S  Look at the video again and look at Matthews arm under Cousins' leg https://deadspin.com/a-bull####-penalty-let-the-vikings-tie-the-packers-1829095434

 
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Matthews was flagged last week and it was deserved. 

This call was horrendous and it 100% cost them the game - the pass was intercepted, no other flags.

League needs to come out and say that it was a bad call or I'm going to continue to lose interest in watching games. Either let them play football or give them flags in their waistband. Because that's where this headed.

 
Short Corner said:
This is true of all sports.  The consequences are little more punitive in FB given the lower number of possessions.
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Yes, but the greater subjectivity allowed the more it happens. A ref could have looked at that Matthews hit and decided it was not illegal. Another ref certainly could have. The same ref could have ignored that same play earlier. This is just going to cause a perception of arbitrariness. 

However I think you have a point about the few number of crucial plays and games in a season, I think soccer is a comp for what is going on here. 

 
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Short Corner said:
I am ok with this because (a) the QB is the only player (sans punter/kicker/holder) who is expected to play stationary in a prone position; and (b) the game sucks when the elite QBs are not able to play.  
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This is only fair if the QB can no longer scramble outside of the pocket or run for positive yards.  Surely, QB's and OC's are designing plays to take advantage of this new interpretation of the rules, as any QB who can do a good pump fake and is relatively mobile has a huge advantage in this new game.  I would expect most offenses are designing "roughing the passer option" plays to use in key situations. If you can get the timing right, this play would be unstoppable.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
I don't want to get into a metaphysical debate. To me football is a game with certain immutable characteristics and if you change those characteristics it's not the game anymore. To you the game is whatever they decide it is. They could send them out with shuttlecocks and kitchen mitts, call it football and it would be football. I don't want to argue this point as it's philosophical, I certainly respect your POV.
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WTF? If that's what you inferred you have some serious comprehension issues.  

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Zero wrong with this hit.

- Defensive players have a right to hit QBs in the act of throwing. It's not a pile drive, it's not low, it's not at the head. The league is just going to call this randomly throughout the season and it will affect games, like a bullet just falling from the sky. Oh well.
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Wow, my first time seeing this and that is a pitiful call.  Absolutely pitiful that's where we are with protecting the QB.

 
The only people who think that wasn't a terrible call are Vikings fans.  The entire football world, including absolutely every single national reporter, think that was a BS call.  

 
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