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The Clay Mathews “Roughing” Call... (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Stinkin Ref
- Start date
The General
Footballguy
A judgement call is where you can argue if it was a foul or not. Reviews only really work when it’s something like stepping out of bounds or fumble before knee hits and then they only overturn when it’s 100%.Isn’t every call a judgment call by an official? A challenge happens when an official makes a call, (judgement call to be exact) a coach challenges that call and it gets reviewed by someone else who can take a moment and look at different views and then agree or disagree with said officials judgment. I dont mean that sarcastically, just saying coaches now are challenging judgment calls by officials. What’s one more judgment being challenged? Anyway, I doubt anything like that will happen, so who cares, but every call an official makes is his own judgment, right or wrong.
This is a good discussion, I just wish our opinions mattered more, well my opinion anyway
Sucks when your team gets jobbed but it happens.
Mr.Pack
Footballguy
Seriously, this is hilarious.
The whole world knows it was a textbook sack except for the NFL.
Mr.Pack
Footballguy
Who did that? He had the ball when CM made contact. What magical powers are you supposed to have to stop your momentum.
Unbelievable that I'm still jumping in your boat.
The Claymaker
Footballguy
True. But what percentage is truly 100% correct on those calls? Definitely not 100%, so then what’s the difference? If they miss even 5% of those calls, they could easily correct missed penalties or overturn bad calls.
None of it is 100%, again I get what you are saying and I don’t honestly disagree. But using the 100% thing is 100% not the real reason the NFL won’t add something like that to reviews.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
So everyone knows the rule except for the ones making them?
Seriously, this is hilarious.
The whole world knows it was a textbook sack except for the NFL.
The General
Footballguy
Well the initial call is the part that can be messed up. After that the review only changes call if it is 100% clear.
A call like the Matthews hit cannot be ruled on because it’s a judgement call. Even one like this that is pretty clear, you can’t start ruling on those with replay just got to roll with what the ref initially says. Just my 2 cents.
This addition to the rules this year - the driving the QB into the ground - is a good addition IMO. They just have to learn how to call it and players have to learn to avoid it. They’ll figure it out.
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Mr.Pack
Footballguy
Just like the "catch" rule.So everyone knows the rule except for the ones making them?
Exactly
daveR
Footballguy
Not what I meant. It was Matthews' driving through the tackle (His leg drive) that drew the flag, IMO.
Mr.Pack
Footballguy
Last thing, then I'm done with this craziness....Question for my GB @Andy DufresneDufresne The ref Corrente said he threw the flag because Matthews lifted Cousins and drilled him into the ground. Is that what you saw?
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Mr.Pack
Footballguy
Stinkin Ref
IBL Representative
I have reffed hundreds of games as a white hat...albeit at the high school level.....not at the highest level and at the highest speeds...as a ref, you know roughing when you see it....you also know just a good freaking brutal football hit when you see it.....I get all the things they are trying to do....actually that’s a lie...I really don’t....at some point I think you need to block better, protect better, don’t put your QB in the spot to take the hit...there has to be some penalty for blocking like #### and allowing your QB to get hit....at this point it is almost advantageous to let a defensive player beat you and have a free shot at your QB....but at its core one of the things about this sport that made it different from almost every other sport except maybe boxing or something is the physical nature and making the opponent “feel you” in a bad way with bad intentions.....so the WR DIDNT want to go over the middle, so that if you whiffed on a block your QB DID take a big hit....so maybe you don’t throw over the middle anymore or you keep extra players in to protect your QB.....the offense should be the ones having to change their strategy....if you don’t want your defenseless receiver to be hit....DONT PUT YOUR RECEIVER IN A DEFENSLESS POSITION....do something else....run the ball, whatever....otherwise....deal with it....
Ketamine Dreams
Footballguy
Honestly, if they keep making that same call then the NFL is dead. There’s no way it can survive such calls as that.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
Imagine a DB blitzing a player like Cam. He’s got no chance under this rule. Can’t hit him too high, can’t leave your feet, and if he gets the pass off, you can’t hit him at all.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Why? All you're going to do is tell me again how stupid it is that I understand the stupid NFL's stupid rule.
It's not like there's any chance you'll say something akin to "Oh, NOW I understand."
Stinkin Ref
IBL Representative
The white hat is “responsible” for the QB throughout the entirety of the play....which is fine....but unfortunately the mentality now is the defender must show the white hat reason for the white hat NOT to throw the flag instead of a reason TOO throw the flag...
did i use too/to right?
did i use too/to right?
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Tired of the officiating. Tired of the league refusing to admit its mistakes on calls against the Packers. Other teams have owners advocating for them, not so G.B. It shows. Cousin's leg is rising from the momentum of his follow through. It is rising before Matthews touches it. It continues on its trajectory. Matthews does not pull it up or hold it to prevent Cousins from protecting himself. Matthews braces he and Cousins from the fall. Sorry league, there is video evidence against the original call and against your story now. You are too damn chicken #### to admit your mistakes.
Andy Dufresne has defended the "lifting/picking up" portion of the call as legit, just so long as you interpret "lifting/picking up" to mean "turning/twisting" instead, and ignore that whatever turning/twisting motion occurred was the result of Cousins' follow-through and not anything Matthews did.
He has also repeatedly pointed out that the NFL does not want defensive players in the process of making a tackle to land on the QB, ignoring that Referee Corrente specifically stated that the way Matthews landed on Cousins was not the reason the flag was thrown.
I think that pretty much gets you caught up.
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
This game is just stupid when they call that #### a penalty. 
Birdnals
Footballguy
Not saying Barr's hit from last year was necessarily a penalty, but those comparing it to Matthew's hit from Sunday are wearing blinders (and probably flat-earthers).
Mr.Pack
Footballguy
Well that's not true at all. I respect your opinions, always have. You're defending the rule and that's fine. But Corrente applied the rule incorrectly on this play. His own words says so.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Aside from directly changing the outcome of the game itself - which should be an unforgivable sin for an official - the league has now built in an expectation from fans that any tackle of a QB could be penalized, since Mathews tackle appeared to be completely compliant and legal to 99% of the fans watching it. This may end up pretty ugly for the league in terms of viewership if people are so turned off and frustrated that they simply stop watching.
This is supposed to be entertainment. Politics has already been inserted into it and a lot of fans are unhappy about that. Now they’re going to significantly ratchet up the frustration level?
This is supposed to be entertainment. Politics has already been inserted into it and a lot of fans are unhappy about that. Now they’re going to significantly ratchet up the frustration level?
bryhamm
Footballguy
So everyone knows the rule except for the ones making them?
2 former NFL officials are on record saying that it should not have been called.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
The NFL can tell me its raining as they piss down my leg, but I don't buy it.
Doug B
Footballguy
Maybe they ought to go back to "in the grasp" -- to sack a quarterback, one just needs to grab them a bit rather than tackle them to the ground.
Then at least free pass rushers can grip the QB (IMHO, even a handful of jersey should be enough), immediately release, and call that a "sack".
Then at least free pass rushers can grip the QB (IMHO, even a handful of jersey should be enough), immediately release, and call that a "sack".
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Hov34
Eephus's Great Great Great Love Child
Pipes
Footballguy
They doubled down on the Dez non catch a couple of years ago too. As a Pack fan I can admit that was a catch.
brettdj
Footballguy
And the current ones in charge say it was a correct call. The officials will be calling more of these like this if they want playoff games.
2 former NFL officials are on record saying that it should not have been called.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
notoriousbill
Footballguy
This too was a BS penalty - the hit on Rodgers by Kendricks earlier in the game. At least they were consistent is about the only thing you can say...
https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1041736914418655232/pu/vid/240x240/4RSgjfmlwAOgI1xE.mp4?tag=5
https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1041736914418655232/pu/vid/240x240/4RSgjfmlwAOgI1xE.mp4?tag=5
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Doug B
Footballguy
What was supposed to be wrong with that one? From the reverse angle, I can kinda see the Matthews-Cousins sack as looking much, much worse than it really was. But the Kendricks-Rodgers one looks like a mild sack, generic shoulder tackle at the waist, no extra sauce, not gripping the QB's leg, none of that.
If it was because Rodgers had already released the ball ... eh, OK. Sacks are then de facto illegal. QBs shouldn't be able to save a jailbreak sack by throwing the ball away at the last second and counting on a flag.
steelers1080
Footballguy
This is what happens when you promote one of the worst refs to head of officiating. Riveron is a joke.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
I don't even get the lifting the leg viewpoint on this sack.
You would lift the leg that's planted in order to help you tackle and help make it easier to drive someone (intended or not) into the ground.
1) Clay's left hand does seem to drop to Cousin's thigh, but Cousins was already falling from initial contact, so it's not like lifting the leg contributed to the sack
2) Furthermore, the leg is the one in the air -- to lift a leg to help you tackle, you would lift a leg that's planted/on the ground. THAT sounds like the behavior they are trying to do away with -- the lifting/planting into the turf. Even if you don't buy that Clay's leg contact was incidental, I don't see how he gained any advantage or created added risk by that kind of contact on a non-planted leg.
This is just a silly call IMHO.
ETA: But we can definitely agree on the bolded part.
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Is the office of the NFL that stupid that they dont know what a throwing motion is? Obviously they are that stupid,
Throwing motion when tring to throw hard
front leg is stiff for resistance back leg comes up on follow thru
NFL joke
NFL Officials are a joke
The call is a Joke
The players association should fine the league and Godell and all the idiots need to go.
Im done watching for a while
Throwing motion when tring to throw hard
front leg is stiff for resistance back leg comes up on follow thru
NFL joke
NFL Officials are a joke
The call is a Joke
The players association should fine the league and Godell and all the idiots need to go.
Im done watching for a while
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Donnybrook
Footballguy
Good thing Andy doesn't work for the NFL. (or does he?)
Mr.Pack
Footballguy
NFL does an about face doesn't include Clay Matthews sack
Duh, the whole world knows it was a legal and textbook hit.......
well almost
Duh, the whole world knows it was a legal and textbook hit.......
well almost
Interseptopus
Footballguy
This rule is complete bull ####
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
Pin it!
Donkey Derp
Footballguy
Interseptopus
Footballguy
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Its a terrible rule, but they're calling it as its written. Clay and Smith both had their feet come off the ground, and he drove him downwards with all his weight landing on him. That's what they are trying to avoid. Hate it though.
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