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Indigenous Peoples, Native Americans Thread (1 Viewer)

squistion

Footballguy
Here we can discuss issues relating to Native Americans

We will begin by noting this is Indigenous Peoples Day where we honor the very first inhabitants of this land.

This is being recognized by four states (MN, VT, AK & SD), sixty cities (LA, Seattle, Denver, Phoenix, Austin, Nashville), and a growing number of college campuses instead of Columbus Day. Hopefully the numbers will increase every year.

Here is a link to the Twitter hashtag #IndigenousPeoplesDay2018 for those that are interested:

https://twitter.com/hashtag/IndigenousPeoplesDay2018?src=tren

 
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My second link to The Atlantic today, an interesting piece about a brewing debate in the scientific community about how many indigenous people were here prior to Columbus, how advanced they were, their effects on the physical landscape and what happened to somewhere between 0 and 95% of them right after the Europeans got here. Yeah, the gap in opinions is almost that wide (0-95).

There's even a small political/cultural part of the debate. Any righties who might give this subject a second's thought might suspect the Hate America crew trumping up the anti-white European rhetoric while the lefties think the new theory of a much larger pre-Euro population as poking holes in the right's historical claims of white Euros taming a largely uninhabited wilderness. Lots to chew on in that piece.

 
This video denies Native American genocide
Not watching the video, but by all evidence the vast, vast majority of indigenous people were killed by disease carried over.  Not sure how that's genocide - it wasn't willful.

Though it does appear the population of those already here was pretty huge - estimates of 50M in just the Amazon basin alone.  For anyone near Tuscaloosa I'd recommend a trip to Moundville - thought to be the most populous city pre-colonization in the US.  Very cool place.

 
They will make a holiday for anything now-a-days.

What's next?  Participation Trophy Day?

 
I was listening to "talk radio" this afternoon in Milwaukee. The guy, who has become a shill for Trump, was giving a weird distortion of US History and what the Europeans did to the Natives. As an AP US History teacher, I listened, and was curious how someone could misconstrue history in such a way.

In closing, be careful who you listen to because someones agenda is more powerful than factual accounts.

 
Vince Grzegorek‏Verified account @vincethepolack 3h3 hours ago

Chief Wahoo’s last day as an official part of the Indians uniform will be on Columbus Day, which has some cosmic logic to it.

 
”Columbus’s spirit of determination and adventure has provided inspiration to generations of Americans “

-President Donald J Trump

👍

text TRUMP to 88022

 
Julián Castro‏ @JulianCastro 50m50 minutes ago

Today our campaign joins more than 100 cities and eight states in the celebration of #IndigenousPeoplesDay. We honor the more than 573 tribes across the US, their land we live on, their contributions to the world, and the resiliency of Indigenous people.

Elizabeth Warren‏ @ewarren 46m46 minutes ago

The story of America’s mistreatment of indigenous peoples is long and painful. And yet, Native communities have proven resilient. We owe them our respect—and we must honor our government's commitments and promises to them. #IndigenousPeoplesDay

 
Columbus wasn't even the first European here. The Vikings beat him by almost half a millennium. That said, I'd rather celebrate Indigenous Peoples Day anyway, since I have some Cherokee ancestry(I'm trying to do the ancestry stuff, there's not a lot of stuff that was saved in general).

 
squistion said:
Governor Tim Walz‏ @GovTimWalz 1m1 minute ago

It is my honor to recognize the second Monday of October as Indigenous Peoples Day in Minnesota — a day meant to promote appreciation, reconciliation, understanding, friendship, and continued partnerships with Indigenous people.

Governor Tony Evers‏ @GovEvers 5h5 hours ago

Today we celebrate #IndigenousPeoplesDay. Wisconsin would not be all that it is without our Native Nations. I look forward to continuing to work with Indigenous peoples and tribal communities in Wisconsin to make our state a more equitable, inclusive, and just place
Big talk by Walz. Perhaps he should focus his attention to the homeless natives on Chicago ave and less on illegal aliens. 

 
This is really hard to stomach. Right wing comedian (?) Stephen Crowder has put out a video "Goodbye, Columbus Day" for PragerU.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxYVbC283uM&feature=youtu.be

This video denies Native American genocide, while decrying the "barbarism" of indigenous peoples, and justifies the battle of wounded knee.
Love Prager videos. Very informative. Thanks for the link. I didn’t realize that wounded knee wasn’t a massacre but more a lopsided victory.  Guess my leftest high school teachers pulled one over on me. 
 

I also didn’t realize how vicious the natives were to each other. Thanks again @squistion for the link. 
 

USA USA USA!!!

 
Bernie Sanders‏ @BernieSanders 7h7 hours ago

The time is long overdue for the Native American people to be treated with the respect and dignity they deserve. #IndigenousPeoplesDay

Kamala Harris‏ @SenKamalaHarris 4h4 hours ago

It is imperative we honor our Indigenous communities and recognize the injustices they’ve suffered, often at the hand of the US government. The contributions to society and our planet they’ve made for centuries and continue to make deserve to be celebrated. #IndigenousPeoplesDay

Ilhan Omar‏ @IlhanMN 6h6 hours ago

Today should be a promise to fight against harmful developments on Indigenous peoples’ lands. To center their voices in the climate change conversation. To end the epidemic of missing and murdered Indigenous women. It’s past time to make #IndigenousPeoplesDay a federal holiday.

 
This is really hard to stomach. Right wing comedian (?) Stephen Crowder has put out a video "Goodbye, Columbus Day" for PragerU.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxYVbC283uM&feature=youtu.be

This video denies Native American genocide, while decrying the "barbarism" of indigenous peoples, and justifies the battle of wounded knee.
No denying mass killings took place. When trying to label it as genocide you have to take "intent" into account. There was no campaign of genocide. He simply wanted to subjugate them, and those who resisted were killed. Hitler, now that's genocide. 

 
Bernie Sanders‏ @BernieSanders 7h7 hours ago

The time is long overdue for the Native American people to be treated with the respect and dignity they deserve. #IndigenousPeoplesDay

Kamala Harris‏ @SenKamalaHarris 4h4 hours ago

It is imperative we honor our Indigenous communities and recognize the injustices they’ve suffered, often at the hand of the US government. The contributions to society and our planet they’ve made for centuries and continue to make deserve to be celebrated. #IndigenousPeoplesDay

Ilhan Omar‏ @IlhanMN 6h6 hours ago

Today should be a promise to fight against harmful developments on Indigenous peoples’ lands. To center their voices in the climate change conversation. To end the epidemic of missing and murdered Indigenous women. It’s past time to make #IndigenousPeoplesDay a federal holiday.
I missed that policy proposals that they are proposing in here. Can you please point them out?  Otherwise it’s lip service, pandering and virtue signaling. 
 

also what are some of the contributions to our planet again?  I’m sure there’s a long list here but don’t see it. 

 
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It is imperative we honor our Indigenous communities and recognize the injustices they’ve suffered, often at the hand of the US government
It baffles me that out of one side of the mouth, people like her admit the US Govt has been horrible .... and out of the other side talk about how we need the same Govt to do health care, wealth redistribution, education etc

to be clear - everyone knows what injustices happened, don't they? 

 
It baffles me that out of one side of the mouth, people like her admit the US Govt has been horrible .... and out of the other side talk about how we need the same Govt to do health care, wealth redistribution, education etc

to be clear - everyone knows what injustices happened, don't they? 
That's the point.  We, as a nation, have made some huge mistakes.  The entire point of History is that we do whatever we can to not make the same (or similar) mistakes again.

 
OrtonToOlsen said:
That's the point.  We, as a nation, have made some huge mistakes.  The entire point of History is that we do whatever we can to not make the same (or similar) mistakes again.
agreed but its not a secret, everyone knows the overall atrocities that happened don't they ?  

FWIW I don't particularly care for Columbus day .... he probably (through diseases alone) was responsible for more deaths than any explorer

 
roadkill1292 said:
Wait, we can't improve the health care system because of the nation's history of abusing indigenous people? What else can't we ever do because of this prior awfulness?
no, its the hypocrisy of on one hand saying the Govt has done so much wrong ... but wait, they can do THIS or THAT right

guess what - they can't, they've proven it over and over

back to the topic, if natives want their own days I guess fine, I don't really know if they care if I "celebrate" it or not though to be honest. I dunno, maybe its that big a deal, I dunno

 
Warren obviously has a sense of humor knowing what the reaction will be in some quarters.

Elizabeth Warren @ewarren 19m

It’s more important than ever to reaffirm our commitments to Native communities—fulfilling trust and treaty obligations, protecting Tribal sovereignty and self-determination, and empowering Indigenous peoples to build strong communities and bright futures.

#IndigenousPeoplesDay

https://twitter.com/ewarren/status/1315673236693229568

 
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/rick-santorum-cnn-native-americans_n_60a92fa6e4b0313547978140?6pa

CNN Drops Rick Santorum After Racist Comments About Native Americans

CNN has terminated its contract with senior political commentator Rick Santorum after racist, inaccurate remarks he made about Native Americans, HuffPost has learned.

Santorum, a former Republican senator and two-time failed GOP presidential candidate, sparked outrage last month after claiming there was “nothing” in America before white colonizers arrived and that Native people haven’t contributed much to American culture, anyway.

“We birthed a nation from nothing. I mean, there was nothing here,” Santorum told students during remarks at a Young America’s Foundation event. “I mean, yes, we have Native Americans, but candidly, there isn’t much Native American culture in American culture.”

Prominent Indigenous-led organizations including the National Congress of American Indians and Illuminative have spent weeks demanding that CNN fire Santorum over his remarks. National civil rights groups have also called for his firing. CNN has stayed silent on the matter.

But on Saturday, a CNN senior executive told HuffPost that the network quietly ended its contract with Santorum this week. This executive, who requested anonymity to speak openly, said the decision to cut ties with Santorum came after he went on one of the network’s shows, “Cuomo Prime Time,” to explain himself shortly after he made his racist comments. He blew it, said this executive, and after that, nobody at the network wanted to keep him around.

“Leadership wasn’t particularly satisfied with that appearance. None of the anchors wanted to book him,” said the executive. “So he was essentially benched anyway.”

During his appearance on Chris Cuomo’s show, Santorum said he “misspoke” and that his comments were “out of context.” But the context of his remarks was simply that he said them, and he did not apologize during the segment.

“I think after that appearance, it was pretty clear we couldn’t use him again,” said the executive.

A CNN spokesman also confirmed to HuffPost that the network officially parted ways with Santorum this week.  [...]

 
Really?  Fired over that?  Meanwhile that freak Toobin is still employed, as is Cuomo.  Joke of a network.

 
Really?  Fired over that?  Meanwhile that freak Toobin is still employed, as is Cuomo.  Joke of a network.
Toobin is still technically employed but hasn't been seen since his infamous Zoom call and I am sure his days on CNN are history and he won't be back again on that, or probably any other network.

 
I got this from another forum which I thought was something to think about:

"Have we talked about the different tribes of "Indians" who inhabited this land prior to the Spanish showing up and how they used to brutally torture,  murder, rape, pillage and take "prisoners" from other tribes and who they readily enslaved and sold into slavery?

The Comanche were particularly bloodthirsty and brutal savages. And not just against White settlers. They terrorized just about every other tribe they encountered. Not to mention the Spanish and Mexicans."

If we're going to attack Columbus then shouldn't we at least be truthful about the Indians as well?  It wasn't all peace, sunshine, roses and Unicorns as how it's being represented prior to "the white man" showing up.

If we're not going to honor Columbus should we be honoring them too?  Heck, should we be honoring ANYONE for that matter?

 
........Heck, should we be honoring ANYONE for that matter?
I apologize @BladeRunnerfor clipping all of your post except this final sentence/question but, it's the one that hit home with me.

The correct answer is an emphatic NO. Yet that is not how humans behave. We place certain individuals/groups on pedestals and then are disappointed when we find out that person/group of people is indeed human and has faults. There is no human being or group of people in history that is free from defects. We will continue to be & behave this way. We strive to be better representatives of our species and we hold up examples of such representations as goals to achieve. 

 
I apologize @BladeRunnerfor clipping all of your post except this final sentence/question but, it's the one that hit home with me.

The correct answer is an emphatic NO. Yet that is not how humans behave. We place certain individuals/groups on pedestals and then are disappointed when we find out that person/group of people is indeed human and has faults. There is no human being or group of people in history that is free from defects. We will continue to be & behave this way. We strive to be better representatives of our species and we hold up examples of such representations as goals to achieve. 
Wow.  I was not expecting this.  I'm pleasantly surprised.  Thanks!  Well done!  :thumbup:

 
kodycutter said:
that's a pretty ignorant statement from Santorum.
I voted for Santorum when he first ran in 1994 but found he way too far right socially for me so voted against him in subsequent elections. 

I think he is a good person but he is quite rigid, somewhat odd and is constantly saying offensive things.   This is just one more example.

 
I voted for Santorum when he first ran in 1994 but found he way too far right socially for me so voted against him in subsequent elections. 

I think he is a good person but he is quite rigid, somewhat odd and is constantly saying offensive things.   This is just one more example.
His statement was true. Obviously he should know better, but he isnt wrong. 

 

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