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Megyn Kelly (1 Viewer)

T J said:
 I consider all equals already so this stuff seems stupid to me, and yes, I do believe that there is distinct reverse racism in our society and it’s not only tolerated, but somewhat celebrated.
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I heard the tail end of a pretty good conversation on the radio yesterday. The discussion was about race. They played a clip of a white man saying that he doesn't consider himself white, he just considers himself a human. I nodded in approval because that's how I usually feel. Then the discussants on the radio show made the point that whites have the privilege of not seeing themselves as white. That's part of "white privilege". I'm not a huge fan of that term because it's often used unproductively in conversation, but I get it. I can still feel a disconnect with my whiteness and think that we should all just consider each other equal and that we're all humans, but at the same time recognize that others have a harder time ignoring their race because they constantly feel it's part of how they are defined.

 
Henry is doing a good job in here in contrasting active racism vs institutional. 

Yes. Nazis marching in the streets is bad. And it's racist. And we can all agree on that.

But taking things for granted, being oblivious to a power dynamic, not caring because it doesn't affect you and you don't think it's a big deal: that's also racism. It's just more subtle and out of mind. You see it in the voting ID stuff. "OMG! How can anyone get by without a picture ID? That's just ludicrous and doesn't exist." But hey. Numbers. There are millions of people that don't have one. Because they're in a different situation than you.

And it's this idea that everybody is similarly situated or everybody has the same cultural advantages or that everybody is going to get the same treatment from strangers and the public, that's all wound up in it.

 
Henry Ford said:
"I mean, when I was a kid we used to sing 'Ching Chong ********, sitting on a fence.'  It was funny.  When did that become racist?'"
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I don't know what's the big deal about someone being called a deplorable or saying they clutch to their crosses and their guns. I mean, it's true. Get over it.

 
Matthias said:
Henry is doing a good job in here in contrasting active racism vs institutional. 

Yes. Nazis marching in the streets is bad. And it's racist. And we can all agree on that.

But taking things for granted, being oblivious to a power dynamic, not caring because it doesn't affect you and you don't think it's a big deal: that's also racism. It's just more subtle and out of mind. You see it in the voting ID stuff. "OMG! How can anyone get by without a picture ID? That's just ludicrous and doesn't exist." But hey. Numbers. There are millions of people that don't have one. Because they're in a different situation than you.

And it's this idea that everybody is similarly situated or everybody has the same cultural advantages or that everybody is going to get the same treatment from strangers and the public, that's all wound up in it.
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Then, while you are swindling them of their votes, get them a ####### ID...it’s not that hard

if you can register them and drive them to the polls, you can help them get an ID...even the poorest countries have voter ID

 
Ranethe said:
I don't understand the people who defend behavior like that I also engaged in-albeit unknowingly. Blaming this stuff on PC is simply weak rationalization designed to salvage ego. 
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People don't like to be called racist. They don't feel they are being racist. Personally, I've always defined "racism" as requiring intent by the offender and "offensive" and requiring offense taken by the offended. So, when someone goes around saying doing something they don't think is racist and don't realize if offensive to others, they really don't like to be labeled as a racist. If someone wants to use different definitions, that's fine with me. If people want to differentiate between "racists" and "Racists" or between "racism" and "institutional racism", that's fine with me. But, it's important to remember that words can mean different things to different people and using "racist" differently than someone else can immediately take a conversation from 0 to 60.

 
dgreen said:
People don't like to be called racist. They don't feel they are being racist. Personally, I've always defined "racism" as requiring intent by the offender and "offensive" and requiring offense taken by the offended. So, when someone goes around saying doing something they don't think is racist and don't realize if offensive to others, they really don't like to be labeled as a racist. If someone wants to use different definitions, that's fine with me. If people want to differentiate between "racists" and "Racists" or between "racism" and "institutional racism", that's fine with me. But, it's important to remember that words can mean different things to different people and using "racist" differently than someone else can immediately take a conversation from 0 to 60.
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I agree somewhat. It becomes bothersome when offenders ignore explanations, dismiss it as "political correctness", blame the offended for being "snowflakes" or having a "victim" mentality. Then it becomes a willful act of dominance/diminishment. Just look at all the n-word idiocy, "why can they use it but not us?".

I can excuse ignorance (it would certainly be hypocritical of me not to). Besides, there's a big difference between calling the offender "racist" and labeling the speech/actions of the offender as racist. 

 
FreeBaGeL said:
What about Robert Downey Jr in Tropic Thunder? 
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Exactly my thoughts. Intent has to matter here. Here is a story I mentioned in the Trump thread about a year and a half ago:

------

The 80's were great in regards to that sort of thing. My grandparents had retired and were traveling the world. For a period of 3-4 years they would send me an ethnic or regional costume from one of the countries they had visited that year for Halloween. This was beyond traumatic for an elementary school kid. There were ninjas, Yoda, GI JOE, then there was me the ####### Russian Cossack or the yodeler in the ####### lederhosen. Though the best was when they traveled though China. They sent back some outfit that was probably some sort of wedding garb along with a wide-brimmed rice hat. So, for Halloween I got dressed up in that and some slippers, my mom used eyeliner to give me ####### slanted looking eyes and what did I tell people when they asked me what I was? I told them I was ####### Oriental. Gotta love the 80s.

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No one gave me #### about being racist. The intent was never to be racist. By today's standards it would be frowned upon but FFS some people are too damned sensitive. Now, I am not a defender or fan of Kelly at all, but this is being blown way out of proportion. I mean, we still have the Washington Redskins right? Hell, I knew a kid that dressed up as Dr. J with an afro wig for Halloween. I don't recall if he had makeup as well - but would it really be racist if he wanted to look like his childhood hero? 

 
I thought of an interesting "what if?" case this morning on the drive in:

OK for a white person to darken their skin to costume as a Klingon? This is commonly done at conventions and such, and I've never seen anyone bat an eye. But maybe it secretly rankles African-American folks, just that I've never been in a position to hear of it.

 
Doug B said:
I thought of an interesting "what if?" case this morning on the drive in:

OK for a white person to darken their skin to costume as a Klingon? This is commonly done at conventions and such, and I've never seen anyone bat an eye. But maybe it secretly rankles African-American folks, just that I've never been in a position to hear of it.
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Interestingly, the Klingons weren't generally played by black actors until ST:TNG, when Worf became popular.  The original series had white actors in makeup.   Once they became almost entirely portrayed by black actors, it did start to rankle folks a bit.  Both the fact that the hyperaggressive warrior race was "the black alien race" (see: "Africanized bees") and seeing white people at conventions.

 
Doug B said:
I thought of an interesting "what if?" case this morning on the drive in:

OK for a white person to darken their skin to costume as a Klingon? This is commonly done at conventions and such, and I've never seen anyone bat an eye. But maybe it secretly rankles African-American folks, just that I've never been in a position to hear of it.
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I don't want to speak for all black people, but I think I'm safe in saying that black people have nothing but pity for any adults who dress up and go to Star Trek conventions. 

 
sn0mm1s said:
Though the best was when they traveled though China. They sent back some outfit that was probably some sort of wedding garb along with a wide-brimmed rice hat. So, for Halloween I got dressed up in that and some slippers, my mom used eyeliner to give me ####### slanted looking eyes and what did I tell people when they asked me what I was? I told them I was ####### Oriental. Gotta love the 80s.
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The conical 'rice hat' seems to be frowned upon these days -- I've seen minor flaps locally over using conical hat images, for example, as shorthand for something being vaguely East Asian.

However, similar to the Klingon question I posted a minute ago: OK to dress as the Mortal Kombat character Raiden for Halloween, complete with stereotypical rice hat? Raiden is a very popular cosplay. 

 
I dont understand race rules. I admit im dumb and from the south. I just wanna know if im allowed to sing along with my favorite jayZ songs or is that a nono.

 
General Malaise said:
I don't want to speak for all black people, but I think I'm safe in saying that black people have nothing but pity for any adults who dress up and go to Star Trek conventions. 
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Lots of African-American cosplayers at the New Orleans Comic Cons**  :shrug:  I do think in that particular melieu, skin-darkening and stereotypical clothing pretty consistently gets a pass. But again, I don't know what minorities say about it when white people aren't around.

** obligatory link -- apologies for the lame video quality.

 
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Doug B said:
Lots of African-American cosplayers at the New Orleans Comic Cons**  :shrug:  I do think in that particular melieu, skin-darkening and stereotypical clothing pretty consistently gets a pass. But again, I don't know what minorities say about it when white people aren't around.

** obligatory link -- apologies for the lame video quality.
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Look, if we can't all agree that making fun of adults who attend Star Trek conventions is good comedy, then I think we're all doomed.  Hell, even William Shatner made fun of these people.

 
Privileged blond whitey lawyer saying what is OK to wear as a Halloween costume??  Fire her!!

 
Can I get a ruling on spray tanning?  Asking for a friend whose wife thinks it will be a little less embarrassing for his naked body to be less paistey white in the Caribbean next month. 

 
I think intent and context is what matters in each case. Bruce Lee is one of my idols. If i dressed up like him for Halloween would you have a problem with that?

 
GROOT said:
I think intent and context is what matters in each case. Bruce Lee is one of my idols. If i dressed up like him for Halloween would you have a problem with that?
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If you colored your skin a stereotypical tint and slanted your eyes? Yeah most should have a problem with that.

 
tonydead said:
Can I get a ruling on spray tanning?  Asking for a friend whose wife thinks it will be a little less embarrassing for his naked body to be less paistey white in the Caribbean next month. 
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Depends - what shade?

Red Neck Red?  or Orangutan Orange?

 
For the record - I think it was a mistake to cancel the show - unless ratings were already in the tank, in which case they should acknowledge that.

What she said was inappropriate - but a better response from NBC should have been to have her host a show with people who can talk through the history of "blackface" and how it has been a tool to demean people - and now is recognized as having such a negative connotation that the underlying intent is not relevant.  Great chance for a conversation that educated people - instead of inflamed passions from either corner.

 
Sinn Fein said:
For the record - I think it was a mistake to cancel the show - unless ratings were already in the tank, in which case they should acknowledge that.

What she said was inappropriate - but a better response from NBC should have been to have her host a show with people who can talk through the history of "blackface" and how it has been a tool to demean people - and now is recognized as having such a negative connotation that the underlying intent is not relevant.  Great chance for a conversation that educated people - instead of inflamed passions from either corner.
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She has no interest in doing that. And forcing her to do it would just create more backlash.

What they should have done is just allow her to apologize and then quietly cancel the show -- due to low ratings -- a few months down the road.

 
[scooter] said:
She has no interest in doing that. And forcing her to do it would just create more backlash.

What they should have done is just allow her to apologize and then quietly cancel the show -- due to low ratings -- a few months down the road.
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She, doesn't? Is this a fact? Or, is it the network that had no interest in considering this option? Asking because I truly do not know.

 
Ruffrodys05 said:
[scooter] said:
She has no interest in doing that. And forcing her to do it would just create more backlash.

What they should have done is just allow her to apologize and then quietly cancel the show -- due to low ratings -- a few months down the road.
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She, doesn't? Is this a fact? Or, is it the network that had no interest in considering this option? Asking because I truly do not know.
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All I know is that Megyn Kelly has a history of covering racially-charged stories in a way that tends to divide rather than unite. Oh, and she hates political correctness. I cannot imagine that someone like that would suddenly agree to do an Oprah-like "very special episode" about how blackface is demeaning.

She obviously doesn't think it's demeaning. So why on earth would she agree to do a whole show about it? It's not like she's being sentenced to sensitivity training or something.

Like someone said above: you can take the girl out of Fox News, but you can't take the Fox News out of the girl. She lived in the world of race-baiting for so long that she didn't know how to tone it down for a different audience.

 
Da Guru said:
Privileged blond whitey lawyer saying what is OK to wear as a Halloween costume??  Fire her!!
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That is the root of the problem with the PC perspective.  There are two sets of rules. 

Rule One:. Group A must be hypersensitive to all people in Group B.

Rule Two.  Group B has much greater leeway and are allowed to make derogatory statements about Group A.

Oh Group B can rationalize why that is by going back over history, but most of that history no one was alive during.  The divide which exists in this country is as simple as that.  All people should be treated with equal respect.  But that crazy idea gets mocked, so we are stuck in this war between races/groups.  

 
jon_mx said:
That is the root of the problem with the PC perspective.  There are two sets of rules. 

Rule One:. Group A must be hypersensitive to all people in Group B.

Rule Two.  Group B has much greater leeway and are allowed to make derogatory statements about Group A.

Oh Group B can rationalize why that is by going back over history, but most of that history no one was alive during.  The divide which exists in this country is as simple as that.  All people should be treated with equal respect.  But that crazy idea gets mocked, so we are stuck in this war between races/groups.  
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Are there any other differences between Group A and Group B that might be relevant to the discussion?

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
Are there any other differences between Group A and Group B that might be relevant to the discussion?
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There shouldn't be.  Someone in Group B could have made the same statements as Megyn and no one would have batted an eye.  They might have been challenged, but these hateful cries for her head would not have happened. 

 
tonydead said:
Can I get a ruling on spray tanning?  Asking for a friend whose wife thinks it will be a little less embarrassing for his naked body to be less paistey white in the Caribbean next month. 
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Spray tanning is horrible. And there's this tendency for it to end up orange. Just sayin'. Ugh

 
Dedfin said:
I dont understand race rules. I admit im dumb and from the south. I just wanna know if im allowed to sing along with my favorite jayZ songs or is that a nono.
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I am in the same boat.  I grew up in a rural town in NC and went to school and played sports with a lot of black people.  Had many black friends and never really had any racial issues in my 18 years in that town.  A lot of this stuff coming out just baffles me.  The "mammy" thing from above is an example of that.   I must have heard other black people call each other the "N" word thousands of time in school and on the playing field, whether it was in jest, in anger or whatever but it was just a word not some sacred or taboo thing.  I think a lot of the stuff coming out is manufactured and a lot is genuine its just hard for me to separate it.  There was not some huge racial divide in my town we all just lived together and didnt think about it that much.  Maybe it was because we were kids or whatever but that was just the way it was.

 
Black people cant walk in a department store without getting tailed but a bunch of white men in here bent about Halloween costumes. 

Do you understand the complex myriad of unwritten white rules black folks have to negotiate? Little black girls getting kicked out of schools for braids and corn rows. 

Suck it up gentlemen. 

 
Dedfin said:
I dont understand race rules. I admit im dumb and from the south. I just wanna know if im allowed to sing along with my favorite jayZ songs or is that a nono.
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Black folks ask us not to say one dang word out of hundreds of thousands. Is it really too much for us? Speaks volumes of how we dominate the rules that it seems so very difficult and unfair. 

White guy wont be told ANYTHING. Don’t you know who we are?!?!?

 
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