Jump to content
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

N'Keal Harry - NE Patriots WR


Recommended Posts

6 minutes ago, GordonGekko said:

 

It's pretty ugly.

None of these guys can consistently get open on their own. I don't see a guy who can give you anything extra in the Red Zone. I don't see anyone who can force an opposing defensive coordinator to dramatically shift their game plan/personnel to create negative tradeoffs to the Patriots benefit.

Belichick doesn't draft well in general. And more painfully, he has shown he just can't draft skill players at all.

Where Harry can help immediately is he's a willing and very effective downfield blocker. When Cam runs, at least Harry will give up his body to clear a lane. Its not just that he lacks polish ( that's normal for a rookie player), it's that he lacks discipline. There's a glaring lack of economy in his movement. He doesn't know how to use space and he doesn't understand how to use his size in an individual match up at this level. And these are things he needs because he doesn't have the wheels to compensate.

Bizarrely, the best test case for effective slow movement is not another WR, but Eric Esch aka Butterbean the boxer. Butterbean was a novelty as a boxer, but his usage of space, angles and how he bridged distance with his limitations is actually sort of fascinating.

To start, at minimum,  you need to be able to operate with good technique at actual NFL game speed. That Harry can't naturally get open isn't the worst sin in the world. But his technique at this level is pretty suspect.

But he's a young player who was injured. So it's not set in stone. Technical flaws at this level though should always bring concern.

Harry can get open. But he is locked into a mindset of having to d up guys. He’s a helluva back shoulder guy... and a red zone target. But he can also run. I’d like him at slot for a while. With Byrd on outside. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

I loved the guy coming out of college.  Injuries obviously slowed him down.

I wasn't going to look towards him too much in redraft with whatshisface at QB.  But with Cam, I'm more interested at this point.  

In dynasty, I'd like to try to buy on the cheap.  Anyone seen him move?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, jm192 said:

I loved the guy coming out of college.  Injuries obviously slowed him down.

I wasn't going to look towards him too much in redraft with whatshisface at QB.  But with Cam, I'm more interested at this point.  

In dynasty, I'd like to try to buy on the cheap.  Anyone seen him move?

He just got an upgrade (probably) @ QB. The owner of Harry will probably try to jack up the price due to that. I'd wait a bit and see if the hype goes down.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Twenty-Four Eighty-Four said:

He just got an upgrade (probably) @ QB. The owner of Harry will probably try to jack up the price due to that. I'd wait a bit and see if the hype goes down.

The time to buy was rookie drafts IMO

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, jm192 said:

I loved the guy coming out of college.  Injuries obviously slowed him down.

I wasn't going to look towards him too much in redraft with whatshisface at QB.  But with Cam, I'm more interested at this point.  

In dynasty, I'd like to try to buy on the cheap.  Anyone seen him move?

I had an owner sniffing around. But most people paid a high first for him so why sell him for much less with a likely better QB for his style plus a hopeful healthy season?

Your best bet is trying to lump him into a bigger deal. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, tombonneau said:

I had an owner sniffing around. But most people paid a high first for him so why sell him for much less with a likely better QB for his style plus a hopeful healthy season?

Your best bet is trying to lump him into a bigger deal. 

Why is a QB whose biggest weakness is accuracy a better fit for a WR who can't get separation against linebackers let alone actual corners?

Edited by KChusker
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just find it fascinating how different the narrative is for JJAW--who was considered a project and a 2 to 3 year guy--compared to Harry--who was considered a polished product.

JJAW has the better QB, better offense and both failed to produce despite having an open depth chart last year

Personally I think they're both scrubs but still interesting how different the spin is

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, KChusker said:

Personally I think they're both scrubs but still interesting how different the spin is

It's fascinating but reasonable. The NEP didn't go out and get a bunch of receivers on the market and in the draft. They're pretty much stuck with Edelman and Harry until further notice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

2014 was more than okay and the first year back after the ACL tear wasn't awful either. The wheels fell off after he left Carolina.

Not every WR is a Tyreek Hill type player. 

I am of the belief that any NFL WR can put up yardage numbers if force fed targets--and that's exactly what KB was a case of on a Panthers team with no WRs

Even his good seasons hovered around a 50% catch rate, 7.something yards per target and overall awful efficiency

They don't have to be Tyreek Hill but they have to be able to run routes properly

Edited by KChusker
Link to comment
Share on other sites

He still doesn't make an effort on the second cut. Granted we're looking at backyard practice videos, but it's a bad habit one site pointed out last year and I'd like it to stop ringing in my ears. He's coverable. He's Mike Williams and Corey Davis. He's....never reaching his potential til he puts the same work in on that second cut as he did on the first.

Turn your head and watch Edelman! Watch Fitz. Watch old Rice videos. Heck watch Jeudy or Lamb.

One cut might do it for him against man but it means so very little against a zone

I am on this train the second he shows effort in his second (and maybe third) cuts but there's just no way until I see that

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kelvin Benjamin was nothing like N'Keal Harry as prospects. Benjamin ran a 4.61, 32.5 vertical. 

Harry ran 4.53 with a 38.5 vert. He also more than doubled KB on the bench press. 

If you look at NFLCombineResults.com and compare the 2, Harry scored an A and KB scored a C. 

Plus there is dominator rating, breakout age, etc. Harry was also a YAC specialist in college, KB was not. Harry may or may not workout, but he's a far better athlete and prospect than Kelvin Benjamin. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

50 minutes ago, Bri said:

He still doesn't make an effort on the second cut. Granted we're looking at backyard practice videos, but it's a bad habit one site pointed out last year and I'd like it to stop ringing in my ears. He's coverable. He's Mike Williams and Corey Davis. He's....never reaching his potential til he puts the same work in on that second cut as he did on the first.

Turn your head and watch Edelman! Watch Fitz. Watch old Rice videos. Heck watch Jeudy or Lamb.

One cut might do it for him against man but it means so very little against a zone

I am on this train the second he shows effort in his second (and maybe third) cuts but there's just no way until I see that

Which site?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

43 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Kelvin Benjamin was nothing like N'Keal Harry as prospects. Benjamin ran a 4.61, 32.5 vertical. 

Harry ran 4.53 with a 38.5 vert. He also more than doubled KB on the bench press. 

If you look at NFLCombineResults.com and compare the 2, Harry scored an A and KB scored a C. 

Plus there is dominator rating, breakout age, etc. Harry was also a YAC specialist in college, KB was not. Harry may or may not workout, but he's a far better athlete and prospect than Kelvin Benjamin. 

You’re right Laquon Treadwell is a better comp

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, KChusker said:

You’re right Laquon Treadwell is a better comp

Not even close. Treadwell's combine was an F. He ran a 4.64 with a 33.5 inch vert. His dominator rating (share of his college offense) was average where Harry's was elite. Treadwell also put 12 reps where Harry put up 27. The only thing they have in common was that they are about the same size. Harry is stronger, faster, more explosive and was far more productive in college. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Not even close. Treadwell's combine was an F. He ran a 4.64 with a 33.5 inch vert. His dominator rating (share of his college offense) was average where Harry's was elite. Treadwell also put 12 reps where Harry put up 27. The only thing they have in common was that they are about the same size. Harry is stronger, faster, more explosive and was far more productive in college. 

Treadwell’s combine was worse—no debating that

But his overall trajectory is quite similar: broke out early in a stronger conference and was considered a top 15 pick and dynasty 1.1 a year before the draft, wasn’t the first WR drafted before slipping to what many considered a top notch landing spot that propped him up to 1.2 ahead of the WR taken above them but with concerns being his inability to separate and the trickiness of winning 50/50 balls (especially for Harry who couldn’t separate from Pac 12 linebackers let alone SEC corners)

His production being more doesn’t mean to me though considering the strength of conferences, the fact that Harry was the only WR ASU had and thus force fed and Treadwell’s gruesome leg injury in 2014

Edited by KChusker
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, KChusker said:

Treadwell’s combine was worse—no debating that

But his overall trajectory is quite similar: broke out early in a stronger conference and was considered a top 15 pick and dynasty 1.1 a year before the draft, wasn’t the first WR drafted before slipping to what many considered a top notch landing spot that propped him up to 1.2 ahead of the WR taken above them but with concerns being his inability to separate and the trickiness of winning 50/50 balls (especially for Harry who couldn’t separate from Pac 12 linebackers let alone SEC corners)

His production being more doesn’t mean to me though considering the strength of conferences, the fact that Harry was the only WR ASU had and thus force fed and Treadwell’s gruesome leg injury in 2014

There are some similarities with trajectory, no doubt. As for production, I am referring to dominator rating and not raw stats. Dominator evens the college playing field quite bit by looking at the % of receiving yards/TDs relative to the team totals. So it creates a way to compare a WR who plays for a pass happy team like Washington State with a WR who plays for a low volume passing offense like Iowa. It's not a perfect comparison and the competition in the SEC was definitely better. I wouldn't say Harry was the only WR ASU had. As a matter of fact, Harry was sharing the field with another 1st round NFL draft pick. Treadwell's  gruesome injury is another reason not to comp him with Harry. N'Keal has a much cleaner bill of health. I don't think there is any comparison between the 2 as prospects. Harry had literally everything one wanted in a WR except the film guys thought he didn't create enough separation. Treadwell had some of the same criticisms but it was the film grinders who were propping him up. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Again to emphasize how much better of an athlete Harry is, he and Aiyuk split punt return duties in 2018. Harry averaged 17 yards per return and scored a long TD against USC. Aiyuk averaged 6 per return. The following year, Aiyuk who received a lot credit for being dangerous in the open field and as a return man, averaged 16 per return with 1 TD. Some of that is random chance but I think it's forgotten how dangerous in the open field Harry was in college.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Ilov80s said:

Kelvin Benjamin was nothing like N'Keal Harry as prospects. Benjamin ran a 4.61, 32.5 vertical. 

Harry ran 4.53 with a 38.5 vert. He also more than doubled KB on the bench press. 

If you look at NFLCombineResults.com and compare the 2, Harry scored an A and KB scored a C. 

Plus there is dominator rating, breakout age, etc. Harry was also a YAC specialist in college, KB was not. Harry may or may not workout, but he's a far better athlete and prospect than Kelvin Benjamin. 

I only meant that a Harry/Newton connection may be similar in style to Benjamin/Newton. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

I only meant that a Harry/Newton connection may be similar in style to Benjamin/Newton. 

Gotcha and I totally agree. Newton seems to know how to use big body jump ball WRs. I am bullish for this year though as this thread shows, I am a major N'Keal Harry fan. 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

There are some similarities with trajectory, no doubt. As for production, I am referring to dominator rating and not raw stats. Dominator evens the college playing field quite bit by looking at the % of receiving yards/TDs relative to the team totals. So it creates a way to compare a WR who plays for a pass happy team like Washington State with a WR who plays for a low volume passing offense like Iowa. It's not a perfect comparison and the competition in the SEC was definitely better. I wouldn't say Harry was the only WR ASU had. As a matter of fact, Harry was sharing the field with another 1st round NFL draft pick. Treadwell's  gruesome injury is another reason not to comp him with Harry. N'Keal has a much cleaner bill of health. I don't think there is any comparison between the 2 as prospects. Harry had literally everything one wanted in a WR except the film guys thought he didn't create enough separation. Treadwell had some of the same criticisms but it was the film grinders who were propping him up. 

I am aware of dominator rating and know Harry has a great analytic profile: 18 year old breakout, junior declare, high end dominator, target share, etc

One of the big reasons Aiyuk is DND to me is the fact he couldn't do s*** until he was a 21 year old senior--thus not passing the analytic requirement

But I can't just look at analytics, and Harry passes that part while failing miserably in the film department with how he wore defenders like a t-shirt, like Reagor for me in this class (though he fails the film test for different reasons)

Nothing he did as a rookie changed my mind and I like the landing spot even less now than I did a year ago

  • Thinking 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

 

Quote

CLNS' Evan Lazar reports N'Keal Harry is "still struggling to run away from the Pats starting secondary." 

Per Lazar, "the explosive plays through the air aren’t there yet," and Harry "hasn’t gotten the chance to make contested grabs down the field." Harry revealed Tuesday that he has "slimmed down" a bit from his listed weight of 225, but it's apparently yet to translate to more separation on the field. It's a major concern for a player who wasn't even a great separator on his college tape. Harry feels like a bargain at his current ADP in WR50-55 range, but that will quickly change if he continues to fail to turn heads in camp. 

SOURCE: CLNS

Aug 18, 2020, 3:56 PM ET

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Quote

NFL Beat Writers @32BeatWriters

"Harry had his best day of camp. In 1-on-1s, he had a great catch on a back-shoulder pass from Newton. He finished practice with two touchdowns from Newton with J.C. Jackson in tight coverage. It was a good day for the receiver who missed three days of camp last week." #Patriots

https://twitter.com/32beatwriters/status/1297947575388196864?s=21

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Quote

Evan Lazar @ezlazar

N’Keal Harry is moving CBs with his releases more over the last few practices. Vital to his success. With his size, if N’Keal can move CBs off their spots and get vertical upfield, he can set up fades/back shoulders. Not as much about the top of the route for N’Keal as the LOS.

https://twitter.com/ezlazar/status/1298443334340485122?s=21

Link to comment
Share on other sites


 

Quote

Michael Giardi @MikeGiardi

The #Patriots need N'Keal Harry to make the 2nd yr leap. How can he? "Just going out there every day and just making sure I do something to get better every day, no matter what it is. So I just try to have discussions with Coach. Try to discuss what I need to get better at..."

https://twitter.com/mikegiardi/status/1302715935904673794?s=21

 

Quote

Michael Giardi @MikeGiardi

Harry says it's about stacking the days. He missed a few earlier in camp.

https://twitter.com/mikegiardi/status/1302716042561630208?s=21

Edited by Faust
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, GoBirds said:

Anyone like this guy and see a potential #1 WR down the road? Does his upside compare to a Reagor or one of the young Indy WR's? Edelman is up there and Cam has to throw to someone right? His rankings are super low......what am I missing?

He isn’t that good? He can’t separate, he can’t catch, and he isn’t that fast. The only think he is good is fighting for jump balls in the red zone. In camp, the media said he made a couple of unbelievable catches where he ripped the ball out of the hands of defenders. But simple catches . . . Not so much. At least that’s been how things have gone so far. Maybe he can still get better, but he hasn’t shown all that much yet. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, GoBirds said:

Anyone like this guy and see a potential #1 WR down the road? Does his upside compare to a Reagor or one of the young Indy WR's? Edelman is up there and Cam has to throw to someone right? His rankings are super low......what am I missing?

He should be a red-zone target, like he was late last year.  He could do well on broken plays, with Cam throwing the ball. He went in round 14 of my 16 team league, which seems too late in hind-sight.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

He isn’t that good? He can’t separate, he can’t catch, and he isn’t that fast. The only think he is good is fighting for jump balls in the red zone. In camp, the media said he made a couple of unbelievable catches where he ripped the ball out of the hands of defenders. But simple catches . . . Not so much. At least that’s been how things have gone so far. Maybe he can still get better, but he hasn’t shown all that much yet. 

So not looking like a future #1 for the Pats going forward? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


 

Quote

Patriots WR N'Keal Harry (shoulder) is questionable for Week 1 against the Dolphins.

Harry popped up on Friday's injury report with a shoulder injury but is fully expected to play. For what it's worth, he was a full participant at Friday's practice. Julian Edelman, who was removed from the injury report, remains the strongest option to click with Cam Newton as a low-end WR2 in Week 1.

SOURCE: Phil Perry on Twitter

Sep 11, 2020, 4:01 PM ET

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote

Patriots WR N'Keal Harry (shoulder) is active for Week 1 against the Dolphins.

Harry was expected to play despite popping up on the injury report late in the week with a shoulder injury. With limited options behind him, Harry is locked into the No. 2 role as Julian Edelman's bigger running mate. He's a desperation flex against an improved, but average secondary.

Sep 13, 2020, 11:32 AM ET

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
  • Create New...