TVT 0 N S T A
Footballguy
I am surprised Gutekunst, GM for Green Bay Packers, isn't looking to this olive branch in an attempt to help Rodgers cope with the loss of production left by Jake Kumerow's release. Almost equal stat lines...
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WR N'Keal Harry - CHI (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Interseptopus
- Start date
But by cutting him the Pats would not save any money and would need to pay an extra 2 million in guaranteed money. If I am reading over the cap correctly. So it seems like they would either trade him or keep him as depth and not cut him.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
They save $1.4M against the cap if they trade him. It sets up the scenario where the Pats trade Harry and a 6th for a 7th in return to get some cap relief.
Then must mean they like a Harry tight end more than a Harry wide receiver.
Badump bump. I N,Keal-ing it!
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Who’s the biggest beneficiary of his departure (besides Pats fans)?
Bourne?
Bourne?
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Boston
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Yeah, but I assume the Pats wanted him to be. He had some targets. What’s the starting 3 look like in 3-wide sets without him?
Boston
Footballguy
Meyers (who is very under-rated), Agholor and Bourne...after that there is a big drop-off although there are some that hold out hope that Gunner can make a big step forward but that is a real long shot...as for Harry I don't think there were any expectations for him this year...unfortunately he is a complete bust.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Hunter, Smith, and Meyers. Yes, I know you meant WR. Harry was not going to have much of a role if he stuck around. Word on the street is they’ve been trying to move him for months. They’ve been planning to not have him around. No one individual really benefits. His 33 receptions will just be absorbed a little bit to everyone.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
BB has no choice but to own this one. It's come out that the scouting department was not a fan of Harry, Bill had a man crush on him, he didn't listen to the scouts, and BB overrode their concerns and drafted him anyway. Let's just say he's had some better picks than this one.
Kristian Wilkerson is probably pushing this too. The Titans weren't happy he left; twice he essentially chose the Pats PS over as many as six other offers.
He made rookie mistakes on routes n reads but has Spidey hands to catch everything anyway.
Slowish 40 but collectively- good combine scores- impressive athlete. IIRC lateral speed and ups were some of the best in years.
Boston Herald reporter has him "getting it" after a year in the system everything just clicked in OTAs and minicamp. Others have not mentioned him but for a catch here n there so clearly he didn't impress everyone.
Still though this is how it's supposed to work. The team expects young players to work and improve and....those that don't get weeded out.
Zuber? Huber? Another WR was also praised for spring work so yet another site says let these two battle and trade Harry.
As far as NKeal, he needs to take more pride in things and there's no easier way for a WR than to block better. He's a big boy, do that. Run routes better...on and on...I think this is what teams want to see. He may not need catches week one of preseason to trigger a trade.
He made rookie mistakes on routes n reads but has Spidey hands to catch everything anyway.
Slowish 40 but collectively- good combine scores- impressive athlete. IIRC lateral speed and ups were some of the best in years.
Boston Herald reporter has him "getting it" after a year in the system everything just clicked in OTAs and minicamp. Others have not mentioned him but for a catch here n there so clearly he didn't impress everyone.
Still though this is how it's supposed to work. The team expects young players to work and improve and....those that don't get weeded out.
Zuber? Huber? Another WR was also praised for spring work so yet another site says let these two battle and trade Harry.
As far as NKeal, he needs to take more pride in things and there's no easier way for a WR than to block better. He's a big boy, do that. Run routes better...on and on...I think this is what teams want to see. He may not need catches week one of preseason to trigger a trade.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Neat story for such an unproductive player to demand a trade. His teammates have to laughing at him. Going to be an awkward camp for the young man.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Not sure I totally agree with this. From what I saw / read / heard yesterday, Harry was one of the bright spots at receiver and caught a TD in 11 on 11 from both Cam and Mac (and actually looked better than year's past).
Really hard to tell much of anything after one practice and different mixes of players. Generally speaking, the Pats defense is a lot stronger than the offense, so trying to figure out who did "better" is going to be tough to determine and evaluate. So a guy playing with the 2's with Mac at QB against the backup defense may have better numbers than guys playing with the 1's with Cam, but does that really mean much?
Interesting difference. I figured we'd read much of the same.Anarchy99 said:
I do think it's significant for trade value. Until Wilkerson does anything in the regular season, he's a practice squad player many teams wanted. Harry's draft stock- he should be significantly better than Wilkerson.
I totally get that it's too early but I do enjoy the hype now and buy into it too much
rockaction
Footballguy
Sounds like when the Yankees would pump their farm system as having "great" players. "Oh, yeah, Ricky Ledee. Gonna be an All-Star. Just you wait!" Would you like to trade an All-Star for him now? Of course you would! Thank you! Here's Ricky!
Cue RIcky hitting .240 the rest of his career.
Sounds like N'Keal is getting run for that exact reason. Maybe they can squeeze a sixth out of a needy team.
Cue RIcky hitting .240 the rest of his career.
Sounds like N'Keal is getting run for that exact reason. Maybe they can squeeze a sixth out of a needy team.
Flying Elvis
Footballguy
Harry has looked soft (relative to his peers), plain and simple. He was expected to be good based on size/strength, 50/50 wins, and breaking arm tackles (as mentioned in the clipped piece below). Instead, he's looked small and, on many occasions, been absolutely blown up by defensive backs. If his footwork sucks and he isn't winning with strength, there's little hope. The only possibility I see as reasonable is that he wasn't yet fully recovered from injury, so there's a (slim) chance that regained & improved strength physically and mentally (my ball attitude) might allow him to turn things around.
"At Arizona State, the 6-foot-2, 228-pounder destroyed opponents as a 50-50 specialist on the perimeter. Harry routinely wrestled the ball away from defenders while displaying outstanding hand-eye coordination and strength. In addition, he flashed excellent skills as an open-field runner. Harry not only blew through arm tackles with ease, but he knocked would-be tacklers down with aggressive stiff-arms that matched his feisty demeanor. The combination of physicality, toughness and intensity led me to believe he would evolve into a top possession receiver in an offense that needed a reliable pass-catching threat between the numbers."
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Anarchy99
Footballguy
To be clear, Harry is unlikely to have a role on the 2021 Patriots and most likely will be gone by Week 1. So yes, NE will try to get him some good press, get him so looks in camp, and put the word out that he has turned the corner in an effort to get anything back in a trade. If not, they will probably just release him. Both sides seem content and happy to be divorced.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I can't with this. He's the biggest L I've taken for a fantasy opinion ever. Luckily, I don't have him for dynasty so he only hurt my pride and not my pocketbook.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
Yeah. This guy over DK and AJ Brown haunts me every time I see his name on that dynasty roster.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
They’re trying yo recoup a 6th/7th rounder, so trying to pump him up. But what’s the market for him when the colleges are producing 35 pro ready WRs every year?
TVT 0 N S T A
Footballguy
Seeing similar trends with aging receivers in Dynasty Leagues.
Basically cannot unload Julio Jones. People aren't receptive to trading for Mike Evans either. Rather take their chances with the rookie drafts. I don't see anyone paying a 6th or 7th round pick for this guy...
Basically cannot unload Julio Jones. People aren't receptive to trading for Mike Evans either. Rather take their chances with the rookie drafts. I don't see anyone paying a 6th or 7th round pick for this guy...
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Here's the skinny on Harry so far in camp. I follow a ton of Patriots related people, so this is a summary of their reporting. Harry is said to have put in a lot of work in the off season to both lose weight and gain some agility and more mobility. This is the first training camp he has been fully available and healthy, and that clearly has made a difference.
His footwork has been better, his effort level has been a lot more consistent, he has been fighting for the ball, and he has overall looked like a different player in skills and breakdown sessions. He still hasn't been targeted much in 11-on-11's but has made some nice catches when his number was called. As I said, he has looked wayyyy better in one-on-one drills and situational drills. But the target volume in more live action, full unit scrimmages hasn't been there. There have been times in practice that he has been able to get open (which has definitely been an issue in his limited playing time in the regular season).
Unfortunately for Harry, there are a lot more guys in line for target share well before him . . . and Cam Newton has been known to miss wide open receivers. That doesn't bode well with him in NE. I think the Pats are much happier with him now than they were in prior seasons, but that may not get him on the field much or many targets if he stayed with the Patriots. Agholor, Meyers, and Bourne have all been getting rave reviews and Smith and Henry will earn their hefty pay checks.
Harry owners should look at all this as good news, as Harry looks like he might be more capable than he has shown to date. That may end up being on another franchise, which should boost his fantasy value from non-existent to having a glimmer of hope. It may get complicated because I doubt NE will flat our release him (which was a consideration when he demanded a trade), so he will have to wait until they find a trading partner. IMO, if he has a couple of big preseason games someone will want him for a Day 3 pick and NE will be happy to move on from him. He could also be a piece of a bigger trade . . . but what that entails I have no idea.
His footwork has been better, his effort level has been a lot more consistent, he has been fighting for the ball, and he has overall looked like a different player in skills and breakdown sessions. He still hasn't been targeted much in 11-on-11's but has made some nice catches when his number was called. As I said, he has looked wayyyy better in one-on-one drills and situational drills. But the target volume in more live action, full unit scrimmages hasn't been there. There have been times in practice that he has been able to get open (which has definitely been an issue in his limited playing time in the regular season).
Unfortunately for Harry, there are a lot more guys in line for target share well before him . . . and Cam Newton has been known to miss wide open receivers. That doesn't bode well with him in NE. I think the Pats are much happier with him now than they were in prior seasons, but that may not get him on the field much or many targets if he stayed with the Patriots. Agholor, Meyers, and Bourne have all been getting rave reviews and Smith and Henry will earn their hefty pay checks.
Harry owners should look at all this as good news, as Harry looks like he might be more capable than he has shown to date. That may end up being on another franchise, which should boost his fantasy value from non-existent to having a glimmer of hope. It may get complicated because I doubt NE will flat our release him (which was a consideration when he demanded a trade), so he will have to wait until they find a trading partner. IMO, if he has a couple of big preseason games someone will want him for a Day 3 pick and NE will be happy to move on from him. He could also be a piece of a bigger trade . . . but what that entails I have no idea.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
massraider
Footballguy
Cam: Hey, listen, N'Keal, I have a problem, I miss wide open receivers.
N'Keal: .........uh, don't worry about it. Fine with me.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Who is going to want him? His trade value has to be next to nothing. They have been trying to move him for months. Likely not worth it if all they can get is a 7th round pick.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
NE_REVIVAL
Footballguy
He has a wrist contusion where Jones hit him with a beautiful deep ball. Hard to catch the ball with your wrists, i'm done with him, henceforth he is "Dirty Harry" to me and no I aint feelin lucky........
Boston
Footballguy
That play encapsulated his career with the Pats...didn't make the play and got hurt.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
The problem is now he will be even harder to trade and they won't be able to release him without an injury settlement.
I have never been a fan of Harry's, but to be fair, even though the official stat line for him last week was 1 catch for 4 yards, the game film shows that he got wide open multiple times and just didn't get targeted. He got tons of separation, yet the QBs simply didn't look his way.
The fact that he wasn't even an afterthought shows how little faith anyone has in him. He obviously is not in their plans moving forward . . . it's just how they break things off that is the last remaining piece of the puzzle.
Boston
Footballguy
The other issue is they don't have much after Meyers, Agholor and Bourne (unless you think Gunnar can develop) so they still kind of need him as sad as that sounds...this draft pick is a complete disaster...not only is he a bust but what they could have drafted there would have this offense in a totally different spot for years to come.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
There's no sugar coating Harry was both a bad pick, a bad fit, and still an issue. It happens. Playing the what if game in terms of who else they could have selected doesn't make much sense either. Sure, they could have had Samuel (hurt a lot), Brown, or Metcalf . . . who clearly are more talented but they may not have fared any better or may not have been a system fit in the NE system. It didn't happen that way, so we'll never know.
I think the real issue is the coaching staff and the QBs don't trust or believe in Harry. When he finally gets targeted, he doesn't do much. So far this camp he apparently had done well in practice as a big bodied red zone threat. That might be his role if he sticks with the team (which is probably doubtful at this point).
Their WR depth isn't great, but if the TEs are healthy (certainly a big if), one of them will serve as another receiver. From that lens, Agholor-Meyers-Henry-Bourne isn't that bad in terms of a depth chart. With Gunner practicing all the time with Jones, those two seem to have some decent chemistry (and would be another option once Mac takes over). Wilkerson seems destined to be cut and added to the practice squad (unless some other team picks him up).
Plus they have White as someone they have used a ton as a receiving threat. I am still interested to see how they utilize Michel. He was targeted a lot when he played last night, but in the first preseason game they had him split wide and in motion several times. Like with Newton, I am not convinced Michel has turned a corner or can stay healthy, but what Michel has shown so far this training camp has been pretty good. He looks a lot better overall this year . . . but is always a stone's throw away from going on IR.
Boston
Footballguy
I am not onboard with that first paragraph…they had pretty much the pick of the litter of a very talented WR class and they bombed and the results of that decision have had a very negative effect on their offense…this isn’t a trust issue it is a talent issue…they don’t trust him because he is not good and that has been the case since day 1.
Faust
MVP
The selection of Harry was a big whiff on Belichick according to Albert Breer:
Bill Belichick Reportedly Ignored Patriots Scouts When Drafting N’Keal Harry
Excerpt:
Bill Belichick Reportedly Ignored Patriots Scouts When Drafting N’Keal Harry
Excerpt:
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I think you misconstrued what I meant. There is no denying Harry was anything other than an unmitigated disaster of a pick. The other receivers that went near the top of the draft that year were all much more talented. But that doesn't mean one of them would have worked out and been an uber stud with the Pats. How they performed somewhere else would not necessarily have translated to how they would have done in NE. But the chances of hitting on someone because that guy was talented would have been a lot higher.
