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2020: The Race For the White House - The Good Place


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Kansas Democratic Party announced some changes to previous primary format for 2020.  Dumping the caucus in favor of a voting primary using Ranked Choice Voting.  Voters can rank up five choices. 

I got Bloomberg by two points over anyone else, and I'm questioning my entire existence.

Just now, BobbyLayne said:

What's the difference between:

  • 2020: The Race For the White House
  • 2020 Presidential Election Thread

@Joe Bryant could we please merge these threads?

My guess is, the 2020 Presidential thread was created in 2012 by squis and Sinn had no idea it was there when he created his.

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7 minutes ago, The Commish said:

I am willing to take action on this.  If the GOP doesn't attempt to use "socialist" as one of it's cornerstone arguments against the Dem nominee, you win.  If they do, I win.....bet?

 

 

On the George Stephanapolous show on Sunday, Rick Santorum was on the roundtable. At the end, he argued that AOC driving Amazon out of NYC is "exactly what you get with socialism."

He was literally arguing that AOC complaining about government handouts to Amazon was socialism.

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30 minutes ago, The Commish said:

"The right" will try to paint ANY Dem politician this way.  They will all be labeled "socialist" and be portrayed as individuals wanting to come and take all your stuff.  It's the one trick pony nature of the current GOP.

Sure...but with Bernie it has backbone with his own words.

I like the guy and think we would be way better off had he won in 16 sure (though gridlocked by Congress for 2 years for sure.  Just think age plus that will have too much to overcome even against Trump.

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11 minutes ago, whoknew said:

 

On the George Stephanapolous show on Sunday, Rick Santorum was on the roundtable. At the end, he argued that AOC driving Amazon out of NYC is "exactly what you get with socialism."

He was literally arguing that AOC complaining about government handouts to Amazon was socialism.

Right....it's all they talk about.  Mostly because they don't have any sort of serious policy positions in opposition to Dems.  It's just "Dems are bad and going to take everything away from you".

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3 minutes ago, sho nuff said:
34 minutes ago, The Commish said:

"The right" will try to paint ANY Dem politician this way.  They will all be labeled "socialist" and be portrayed as individuals wanting to come and take all your stuff.  It's the one trick pony nature of the current GOP.

Sure...but with Bernie it has backbone with his own words.

I like the guy and think we would be way better off had he won in 16 sure (though gridlocked by Congress for 2 years for sure.  Just think age plus that will have too much to overcome even against Trump.

I don't know what you're saying here or what perspective you are commenting from.  I am commenting from the perspective of the GOP position.  They know their followers are susceptible to fear and they will use the fear of "socialism" against every single one of the candidates.  The veracity of their claims against the Dem candidates are irrelevant.  Age is the best argument against Bernie, but against Trump its less so.  Trump is only a few years younger though many Big Macs ahead.

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How about we let the process play out, before we get too worked up about who the nominee ends up being. 

Whomever the Dems nominate, will have been put through the ringer to get the nomination. If they emerge, then they have the ability to beat Trump.

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12 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Right....it's all they talk about.  Mostly because they don't have any sort of serious policy positions in opposition to Dems.  It's just "Dems are bad and going to take everything away from you".

Policy positions of the GOP in case some of you have been living on Mars.

 

1.  Fair Trade 

2.  Immigration 

3.  Not self described socialist

4.  Late term abortion 

5.  Various foreign policy issues

6.  Energy 

7.  Tax policy

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18 minutes ago, whoknew said:

 

On the George Stephanapolous show on Sunday, Rick Santorum was on the roundtable. At the end, he argued that AOC driving Amazon out of NYC is "exactly what you get with socialism."

He was literally arguing that AOC complaining about government handouts to Amazon was socialism.

But that argument is going to be effective because there is just a small bit of truth to it. The public doesn’t define socialism all that carefully. What they perceive is that AOC and those like her are against business. The Democratic candidate, whoever that is, has to be very careful here. 

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1 minute ago, Sinn Fein said:

How about we let the process play out, before we get too worked up about who the nominee ends up being. 

Whomever the Dems nominate, will have been put through the ringer to get the nomination. If they emerge, then they have the ability to beat Trump.

Incorrect.

 

winning the nomination doesn’t always equate into being the best option for winning the presidency.

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Just now, TripItUp said:

Just the male vote; he wins it

Older, white males.  Yes    Not males 18-30.      And you know what happens to older white males? They eventually become extinct.  The GOP is in big trouble if they don't do something to expand their mindset.  The Make America white again-thing isn't ever going to resonate with the young folks.

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1 minute ago, timschochet said:

But that argument is going to be effective because there is just a small bit of truth to it. The public doesn’t define socialism all that carefully. What they perceive is that AOC and those like her are against business. The Democratic candidate, whoever that is, has to be very careful here. 

Correct

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Just now, JuniorNB said:

Older, white males.  Yes    Not males 18-30.      And you know what happens to older white males? They eventually become extinct.  The GOP is in big trouble if they don't do something to expand their mindset.  The Make America white again-thing isn't ever going to resonate with the young folks.

Quit trying to dissect males.  

 

He he wins the demographic.

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3 minutes ago, TripItUp said:

Policy positions of the GOP in case some of you have been living on Mars.

 

1.  Fair Trade 

2.  Immigration 

3.  Not self described socialist

4.  Late term abortion 

5.  Various foreign policy issues

6.  Energy 

Will you please link me to the legislation/bills that are out there being worked on any of these in any real manner?  TIA :thumbup: 

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1 minute ago, TripItUp said:

Policy positions of the GOP in case some of you have been living on Mars.

 

1.  Fair Trade 

2.  Immigration 

3.  Not self described socialist

4.  Late term abortion 

5.  Various foreign policy issues

6.  Energy 

1.  "America First" unmitigated disaster

2.  Immigration - GOP is about wasting government resources instead of securing the border

3.  "Not a socialist" is effectively swimming upstream at this point.  Majority of voters want some of these policies. 

4.  This will keep ahold of 30% of the voters 

5.  See #1.  America has become a worl-wide laughing stock. 

6.  Energy is a losing argument for the GOP - literally the way of the dinosaur. 

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5 minutes ago, TripItUp said:

Incorrect.

 

winning the nomination doesn’t always equate into being the best option for winning the presidency.

I did not say that it was always the best option. Obviously not the best option in 2016.

But, whomever the Dem nominate will be the favorite to win the 2020 election. 

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5 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

1.  "America First" unmitigated disaster

2.  Immigration - GOP is about wasting government resources instead of securing the border

3.  "Not a socialist" is effectively swimming upstream at this point.  Majority of voters want some of these policies. 

4.  This will keep ahold of 30% of the voters 

5.  See #1.  America has become a worl-wide laughing stock. 

6.  Energy is a losing argument for the GOP - literally the way of the dinosaur. 

Let’s not change the subject... we have persons in here that actually believe the republican party doesn’t have policy.   😂

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6 minutes ago, TripItUp said:

Much of this legislation has already been passed.  😉

 

Google it 

So then that has nothing to do with what I said unless you are claiming the GOP platform is simply "defending what we already have"...which is what I was saying with the fear mongering approach of saying the Dems are going to take those things away.  Nice platform!!  Google is where I start, when it comes up empty I come to those in the know, like yourself, because I couldn't find it on google....so here we are :shrug: 

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12 minutes ago, TripItUp said:

Policy positions of the GOP in case some of you have been living on Mars.

 

1.  Fair Trade 

2.  Immigration 

3.  Not self described socialist

4.  Late term abortion 

5.  Various foreign policy issues

6.  Energy 

7.  Tax policy

These are not policy positions, they are issues about which someone might have a policy position. Except #3, which just kinda sounds like "some people on the left suck, we oppose them and don't like them."  Which frankly comes a lot closer to capturing the words and actions of the GOP over the last decade than any substantive policy position.

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3 minutes ago, TripItUp said:

How can you say that without knowing the nominee?

 

6 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

I did not say that it was always the best option. Obviously not the best option in 2016.

But, whomever the Dem nominate will be the favorite to win the 2020 election. 

I disagree...Bernie Sanders has very little chance of beating Trump

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2 minutes ago, The Commish said:

So then that has nothing to do with what I said unless you are claiming the GOP platform is simply "defending what we already have"...which is what I was saying with the fear mongering approach of saying the Dems are going to take those things away.  Nice platform!!  Google is where I start, when it comes up empty I come to those in the know, like yourself, because I couldn't find it on google....so here we are :shrug: 

You’re being obtuse if you think the republican party hasn’t passed or supported legislation/policy.  I gave you the categories, you  can figure out the rest.

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1 minute ago, TobiasFunke said:

These are not policy positions, they are issues about which someone might have a policy position. Except #3, which just kinda sounds like "some people on the left suck, we oppose them and don't like them."  Which frankly comes a lot closer to capturing the words and actions of the GOP over the last decade than any substantive policy position.

Your actually believe that policy and legislation doesn’t exist for Republicans?

 

What kind of crazy has been going on in this forum?

 

😂

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I didn’t vote for Trump and I don’t want to vote for Trump, but the obtuse,  self unaware nature of the posts in this thread are exactly what shoots Democrats own feet.  

 

Literally can’t get out of their own way.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, lazyike said:

 

I disagree...Bernie Sanders has very little chance of beating Trump

:shrug:

Bernie Sanders has very little chance of getting the Dem nomination.

 

But, if he gets the nomination - he will be favored to beat Trump.

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8 minutes ago, TripItUp said:

Your actually believe that policy and legislation doesn’t exist for Republicans?

 

What kind of crazy has been going on in this forum?

 

😂

He didn't say that. He said your list contained no policy positions. And he's correct.

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10 minutes ago, Murph said:

He didn't say that. He said your list contained no policy positions. And he's correct.

 

Yes, he did say that.  Here is exactly what he said....

”  Mostly because they don't have any sort of serious policy positions in opposition to Dems.  It's just "Dems are bad and going to take everything away from you".”

 

 

They are policy topics....I don’t plan on pulling the legislation that has already been passed or proposed.  Particularly when the poster knows it exists.

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22 minutes ago, TripItUp said:

He also wins white educated conservatives

 

we can play this game all day

Lol  I noticed how you had to throw the word conservative in there. Well duh.  How about educated males, overall?

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Just now, TripItUp said:

Your actually believe that policy and legislation doesn’t exist for Republicans?

 

What kind of crazy has been going on in this forum?

 

😂

I think they have a few substantive policy positions: build a wall on the southern border as part of a larger effort to reduce unlawful immigration, wealthy people should pay less in taxes, environmental protection is bad,  ... those things have been consistent GOP/conservative themes for a while. But that's about it. On most issues they've either made a complete 180 under Trump without losing many supporters or never bothered to take a position in the first place. There's a reason you couldn't articulate their positions and instead listed a bunch of issues.

As for legislation- let's just say there's a reason that two of the three most important and substantive pieces of legislation of the Trump presidency were actually liberal policy priorities (criminal justice reform and conservation).

 

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3 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

Lol  I noticed how you had to throw the word conservative in there. Well duh.  How about educated males, overall?

Trump loses educated liberal males.

 

Men not falling into this category are Heavily Trump supporters.   Something like 90% last time I saw.

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17 minutes ago, TripItUp said:

You’re being obtuse if you think the republican party hasn’t passed or supported legislation/policy.  I gave you the categories, you  can figure out the rest.

Of course they have....in the past.  What I have been saying and will continue to say is they have nothing they are actively working on now.  I asked you for a list of bills they have in the works.  They don't have any with any sort of momentum.  They've had one meaningful bill that significantly affected public policy in the last two years.  That was the tax bill.  That's it.  And they 8 years before that it was simply "stop Obummer from doing stuff".  And while there is plenty of "being obtuse" going on, you're pointing at the wrong guy.

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Just now, TripItUp said:

Trump loses educated liberal males.

 

Men not falling into this category are Heavily Trump supporters.   Something like 90% last time I saw.

So men who are not liberal favor Trump? Shocking!

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11 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Of course they have....in the past.  What I have been saying and will continue to say is they have nothing they are actively working on now.  I asked you for a list of bills they have in the works.  They don't have any with any sort of momentum.  They've had one meaningful bill that significantly affected public policy in the last two years.  That was the tax bill.  That's it.  And they 8 years before that it was simply "stop Obummer from doing stuff".  And while there is plenty of "being obtuse" going on, you're pointing at the wrong guy.

You are changing the subject but I agree with several of  your statements.

 

Also, maintaining the status quo is a legitimate policy stance.   

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44 minutes ago, timschochet said:

But that argument is going to be effective because there is just a small bit of truth to it. The public doesn’t define socialism all that carefully. What they perceive is that AOC and those like her are against business. The Democratic candidate, whoever that is, has to be very careful here. 

There's no truth to it unless words have no meaning.

Which, in the age of Trump, I guess is true.

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13 minutes ago, TripItUp said:

He wins males.  You are playing the dissection game.  Not me.

That seems like a weird position to take. Its not a "dissection game." Its looking at accurate data.

Trump won men 52/41 in 2016. But that's not the smallest category we have. So its more accurate to look at who makes up that 52%. For example, he won 14% of black men and 28% of Hispanic men. 

That's useful information to know.

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14 minutes ago, TripItUp said:

You are changing the subject but I agree with several of  your statements.

 

Also, maintaining the status quo is a legitimate policy stance.   

No....this has been my assertion the entire time...apologies if it wasn't clear earlier.

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2 hours ago, timschochet said:

But that argument is going to be effective because there is just a small bit of truth to it. The public doesn’t define socialism all that carefully. What they perceive is that AOC and those like her are against business. The Democratic candidate, whoever that is, has to be very careful here. 

Well, when folks like yourself also do it and misrepresent them it doesn’t really help.  But I’m already bored with the D 2020 primary - like I said before, wake me up when it’s over and I’ll vote for whoever it is over the orange doofus.

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2 hours ago, TripItUp said:

I didn’t vote for Trump and I don’t want to vote for Trump, but the obtuse,  self unaware nature of the posts in this thread are exactly what shoots Democrats own feet.  

Literally can’t get out of their own way.

You guys are so dumb, but hold my beer while I do something even dumber!

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4 hours ago, JuniorNB said:

I don't care if he wants to run. Good for him. He finished second last time, but also second to last. This is a crowded field and his chances are miniscule. My only hope is that he and his fan club learned their lesson last time and that the other Democratic opponents aren't the enemy. Their hatred toward Hillary in 2016 is why we currently have Trump as our president. I hope his base has smartened up since then.

I beg to differ.

Hillary is why we have Trump. She was unlikable and unable to sell herself to the American public as a better alternative than Donald Trump. That's epic failure and the buck stops with her. 

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2 hours ago, TripItUp said:

Trump loses educated liberal males.

 

Men not falling into this category are Heavily Trump supporters.   Something like 90% last time I saw.

I think one thing the GOP underestimates is how many white males Trump has single-handedly turned in to liberals.

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Just now, AAABatteries said:

I think one thing the GOP underestimates is how many white males Trump has single-handedly turned in to liberals.

Also how many women are pissed off right now.  Women didn't like Hillary, Im not sure any of the current crop of Dems have that issue with women.

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