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2020: The Race For the White House - The Good Place (2 Viewers)

The issue with the Bernie/David Sirota thing is that Sirota was representing himself as a journalist when he was taking shots at the other primary candidates even though he was already working with the Sanders campaign. In fact they only went public with his role on the campaign when the reporter who wrote the Atlantic story called the campaign to get their comments on it.
I don't think this is as big a deal as people are making it.  He didn't publish any articles after the Sanders campaign reached out to him.  His critiques were always grounded squarely in the candidate's actual records and actions.  The Guardian asked The Atlantic to correct the story.  

 
If I was a betting man, and I am, I'd have my money on Harris winning the nomination for this reason. And also because the current polling is largely a function of name recognition, which gives Biden and Sanders a huge boost and probably gives Warren and Beto a smaller boost. Harris is the only candidate polling decently without anything approaching Biden/Sanders level name recognition.

The advantage Sanders has is that unlike Biden, a lot of his negatives are already baked into his numbers.  There's no big hit to his popularity coming down the line like there is once people start hitting Biden on Anita Hill and the Iraq war and whatnot.
I also think the big money will find a home with Biden or Harris.

 
You definitely will regret it - he has absolutely no facts to back up the bull#### but like you say, everybody else needs to play nice.  He’s suffering through a Trump presidency but has no blame for Hillary or apparently actual Trump voters - IT’S BERNIE’S FAULT!  
A lot of factors played into it. Including Bernie's fans hatred of Hillary and Bernie not doing anything to talk sense into them. He loved it. 

 
I’ve been preaching him to everyone I know - not that he has to be the guy, but that people should take a good look at him.  But even among my most politically aware friends, most hadn’t even heard of him.   :(  
It seems pretty clear his competition is Hickenlooper in the best political name primary.

The juvenile part of me secretly wishes for a Hickenlooper/Buttigieg ticket just for the laughs (ftr, I like both in the bit I know). But Trump debating someone named Hickenlooper. And Pence..... :lmao:

 
You definitely will regret it - he has absolutely no facts to back up the bull#### but like you say, everybody else needs to play nice.  He’s suffering through a Trump presidency but has no blame for Hillary or apparently actual Trump voters - IT’S BERNIE’S FAULT!  
My favorite thing about "that kind of guy" is laying it at the feet of individual voters when we have the electoral college in place.  It's ####### weird and funny all at the same time.  I'd understand if the raw vote totals were close, but they weren't.  She screwed the pooch every way possible in that campaign, but yeah....let's blame Bernie for not bringing around part of his supporters as if he has some sort of mind control over them and simply chose not to flip the switch on the remote!

ETA:  Can you imagine the #### fit they would have if Bernie decided to run as an independent?  Holy #### !!!!!  Talk about armageddon.  :lol:

 
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So I looked into the difference between saying individual donors and unique donations. Individual donors is just what it says that means single donations from individuals. In politics speak unique donations is a bundling term. One person contributed multiple unique times. This is not the same as grassroots support and it makes sense given Beto is only polling around 8 percent up from 7 before he announced. Meaning he got virtually no bump. There is no grass roots demand for Beto or at least not much of one. I guess we won't really know until April when they have to report but I feel more and more confident in my original stance.

 
I think there is a really good chance Biden is at his high water mark now.

There’s a reason he got trounced in his other attempts.
Yeah Biden has a long history and it isn't great for this environment.  He is running on an 80s agenda and he couldn't win with it in the 80s. 

 
Yeah I couldn’t take that town hall for more than a few minutes. Just rambling.

He’s had good track record as a politician but man he’s rough to listen to.
He's another one who thinks he has the magic formula that will make Republicans want to be his friend. He doesn't,  there isn't one. It's past time to realize the current GOP, the party and its leadership not neccesarily all voters, has gone scorched earth and to stop pretending like they have any interest in or intention to play nice. If you haven't gotten that message by now go away. It's time to fight.

 
So Biden's camp is already saying that Stacy Abrams will be his running mate. Very interesting strategy. It's obviously what he's attempting to do. He needs to have the support of young progressives and what better way than to have a female black running mate. But it really handcuffs him later on if he ends up making it to the end. If some rising star emerges from the primaries that would make an awesome running mate, he can't use them to his advantage. He's already locked in with someone. Of course, in his mind, and rightfully so, he needs to get through these early stages. And I guess he's just hoping Abrams can do that for him.

 
So Biden's camp is already saying that Stacy Abrams will be his running mate. Very interesting strategy. It's obviously what he's attempting to do. He needs to have the support of young progressives and what better way than to have a female black running mate. But it really handcuffs him later on if he ends up making it to the end. If some rising star emerges from the primaries that would make an awesome running mate, he can't use them to his advantage. He's already locked in with someone. Of course, in his mind, and rightfully so, he needs to get through these early stages. And I guess he's just hoping Abrams can do that for him.
He correctly perceives Kamala as the biggest threat to his nomination. His plan is a bit cynical if true, but it might work. 

 
ren hoek said:
The Guardian asked The Atlantic to correct the story.  
Glenn Greenwald

The realization is sinking in among lots of reporters that the fundamental claims of @TheAtlantic's accusatory attack on @davidsirota by @IsaacDovere was simply false. We're working on our story about it now. So are many others. That story has collapsed, humiliatingly.

 
Nate Silver‏Verified account @NateSilver538

Did this pretty quickly so don't take as gospel, but it looks to me like 10 candidates have already qualified for the debates under the DNC's *polls* criteria: Biden, Sanders, Harris, O'Rourke, Warren, Booker, Klobuchar, Castro, Gillibrand, Buttigieg.

 
Glenn Greenwald

The realization is sinking in among lots of reporters that the fundamental claims of @TheAtlantic's accusatory attack on @davidsirota by @IsaacDovere was simply false. We're working on our story about it now. So are many others. That story has collapsed, humiliatingly.
Glenn Greenwood is still a thing?  Color me:shuked:

 
Love how Sirota points out factual information about Beto being #2 recipient of oil & gas donations and gets tore into by CAP twitter.  Don’t be fooled by the ‘refusing PAC money’ stuff, that’s what bundling is designed to circumvent.  

Then people pick up on this bogus line of attack against him as Bernie’s “twitter attack dog”.  The bad faith attacks almost always seem to go one direction.  The good faith pleas for ‘unity,’ ‘respect’ and ‘decency’ always seem to go the other, as evidenced by juniornb.  

I’m convinced 2020 is going make 2016 look like a brunch get together.  

 
Love how Sirota points out factual information about Beto being #2 recipient of oil & gas donations and gets tore into by CAP twitter.  Don’t be fooled by the ‘refusing PAC money’ stuff, that’s what bundling is designed to circumvent.  

Then people pick up on this bogus line of attack against him as Bernie’s “twitter attack dog”.  The bad faith attacks almost always seem to go one direction.  The good faith pleas for ‘unity,’ ‘respect’ and ‘decency’ always seem to go the other, as evidenced by juniornb.  

I’m convinced 2020 is going make 2016 look like a brunch get together.  
You sure are invested in the Democratic primaries. How come?  Getting nervous?

 
Peter #####’s Liaison @SilERabbit

BREAKING: Bernie's in deep trouble in the critical state of Wisconsin.

🥀Barely beating Biden by 15

🥀Barely beating Warren by 25

🥀Barely beating Beto by 33

🥀Barely beating Klobuchar by 35

🥀Barely beating Booker by 37

🥀Barely beating the rest by 38
Yes!! You just made my day. Either Democrats are going to have to let the process play out or once again have the party rip itself apart. If the people want Bernie, let them have Bernie. Go Bernie!

 
Peter #####’s Liaison @SilERabbit

BREAKING: Bernie's in deep trouble in the critical state of Wisconsin.

🥀Barely beating Biden by 15

🥀Barely beating Warren by 25

🥀Barely beating Beto by 33

🥀Barely beating Klobuchar by 35

🥀Barely beating Booker by 37

🥀Barely beating the rest by 38
At this point last election cycle Clinton was beating Bernie by 60 points. Largely because of name recognition and structural advantages from previous campaigns. 

 
ren hoek said:
I don't think this is as big a deal as people are making it.  He didn't publish any articles after the Sanders campaign reached out to him.  His critiques were always grounded squarely in the candidate's actual records and actions.  The Guardian asked The Atlantic to correct the story.  
And you know that ... how?  Because the people who didn't disclose their working relationship at all and showed no intention of doing so until the reporter called them for comment told you?

Sure, Jan.

 
And you know that ... how?  Because the people who didn't disclose their working relationship at all and showed no intention of doing so until the reporter called them for comment told you?

Sure, Jan.
Regardless his critiques were on policy and record. The guy who went after him over it shows his overt bias everyday while pretending he has none. Non story being pushed by people with their own unstated agendas.

 
Nate Silver‏Verified account @NateSilver538

Did this pretty quickly so don't take as gospel, but it looks to me like 10 candidates have already qualified for the debates under the DNC's *polls* criteria: Biden, Sanders, Harris, O'Rourke, Warren, Booker, Klobuchar, Castro, Gillibrand, Buttigieg.
Yang has qualified through the other route of getting 65,000 donors. Don't know if any of the other candidates not listed above have qualified this way or not

 
At this point last election cycle Clinton was beating Bernie by 60 points. Largely because of name recognition and structural advantages from previous campaigns. 
The very reason he did poorly at this point in the 2016 polls is why he's doing so well at this point in the 2020 polls. Name recognition. It'll be interesting to see how that changes once Biden officially announces and people become more familiar with the others.

 
The very reason he did poorly at this point in the 2016 polls is why he's doing so well at this point in the 2020 polls. Name recognition. It'll be interesting to see how that changes once Biden officially announces and people become more familiar with the others.
Biden is going to get torn to shreds once he announces. They are going to hang so much on him it won't be funny.

 
Regardless his critiques were on policy and record. The guy who went after him over it shows his overt bias everyday while pretending he has none. Non story being pushed by people with their own unstated agendas.
Do you really not understand why a prominent campaign staffer hiding his affiliation with the campaign and calling himself an independent journalist while launching nasty attacks including name-calling and absurd hyperbole is problematic?

Come on, man. Imagine if the shoe was on the other foot, say if this was a Washington Post columnist secretly employed by Biden's campaign for months while attacking Bernie without revealing the relationship, and only doing so when an Intercept reporter called for comment. Bernie supporters would be apoplectic, and rightfully so. These sort of secretive, mutually beneficial arrangements between powerful people who hide their own interests are exactly what you're supposed to be fighting against.

 
I think Red is a Bernie fan - no joke.
Nah.  It’s been interesting to watch the Democratic leadership suppress the populist movement in their party.  It really exposes an allegiance to corporations over popular policy that I think is important.  

Bernie is the elephant in the room; the most popular politician in the country with arguably the strongest support network of anyone running in 2020. And establishment Dems and their media clique want to treat him like an albatross on the party rather than a viable front runner.  It’s hilarious 

 
Do you really not understand why a prominent campaign staffer hiding his affiliation with the campaign and calling himself an independent journalist while launching nasty attacks including name-calling and absurd hyperbole is problematic?

Come on, man. Imagine if the shoe was on the other foot, say if this was a Washington Post columnist secretly employed by Biden's campaign for months while attacking Bernie without revealing the relationship, and only doing so when an Intercept reporter called for comment. Bernie supporters would be apoplectic, and rightfully so. These sort of secretive, mutually beneficial arrangements between powerful people who hide their own interests are exactly what you're supposed to be fighting against.
Dude this story is coming apart at the seams as we speak people who pick this as their hill to die on or going to regret it don't be one of them

 
And further more to meet the standard trying to be set here CNN, MSNBC, etc. Would have to fire a huge number of their people. They don't disclose I used to work for so and so. When they flit back and forth on the regular. The whole thing reeks of hypocrisy. And like I said looks like maybe we didn't get the story right to begin with in this case.

 
Dude this story is coming apart at the seams as we speak people who pick this as their hill to die on or going to regret it don't be one of them
Link? To a reporter not already in the bag for Sanders, please. I mean, even if we accept that the guy stopped writing for the Atlantic as soon as he took the Bernie job, that still leaves all the tweets sent out under the guise that Sirota was an independent journalist not affiliated with a campaign. That's sleazy as hell even if the Guardian never published a word of his after he took a campaign job. There's a reason our election laws require communications from campaigns to be marked as such. If they were doing nothing wrong, why conceal the relationship until a reporter called to ask about it? Just a crazy coincidence? Why delete 20,000 tweets when the reporter called?  Another crazy coincidence?

I don't think this is gonna be a big deal, and certainly Bernie could make it go away very quickly without taking a hit. But I also don't like the obvious double standards from Bernie supporters at work here.

 
Link? To a reporter not already in the bag for Sanders, please. I mean, even if we accept that the guy stopped writing for the Atlantic as soon as he took the Bernie job, that still leaves all the tweets sent out under the guise that Sirota was an independent journalist not affiliated with a campaign. That's sleazy as hell even if the Guardian never published a word of his after he took a campaign job. There's a reason our election laws require communications from campaigns to be marked as such. If they were doing nothing wrong, why conceal the relationship until a reporter called to ask about it? Just a crazy coincidence? Why delete 20,000 tweets when the reporter called?  Another crazy coincidence?

I don't think this is gonna be a big deal, and certainly Bernie could make it go away very quickly without taking a hit. But I also don't like the obvious double standards from Bernie supporters at work here.
And yet you have no problem accepting the reporting of a guy who spends all his time attacking progressives because he obviously has no bias.

 
And yet you have no problem accepting the reporting of a guy who spends all his time attacking progressives because he obviously has no bias.
I have no problem accepting factual reporting. If there's a factual error I would expect the reporter/magazine to correct it.  If someone shows one and they don't address it, let me know.

Anyway, turning things around and attacking reporters instead of dealing with substance is another sleazy political tactic you all are supposed to be above. Frankly it's Trumpian, and I sure hope you all don't want that.

I asked questions about two amazing coincidences that would have to have occurred if Sirota and the campaign were doing nothing wrong, you didn't address either of them.

 
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Well let’s see.  Sirota, the Sanders campaign, the Guardian and Capital & Main have all come out in the open and disputed the report.  

Should I trust them or this dweeb nobody and his secret sources?
You mean the people the story makes look bad say it's not true? Wow, persuasive argument. Why all the tweet deletions, then?  An amazing coincidence? Why did they not reveal his role on the campaign until the reporter contacted them but then did it immediately thereafter? Another amazing coincidence?

I am relieved to hear you questioning the legitimacy of reporting, though. Quite a turnaround from the guy who signal-boosted a baseless Fox news report about a dead man being involved in a huge conspiracy against the express wishes of his grieving family!  I mean it would be cooler if you did it based on legitimate criticism instead of juvenile name-calling, but still, baby steps.

 
Hmm, well on the one hand there is a lot of evidence and difficult to explain coincidences. But on the other hand the reporter is a "dweeb nobody."  Check and mate.

 
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When it comes to objectively very good things being ruined by the behavior of their fans, Sanders is approaching Rick and Morty/Red Sox levels.

 
Biden is going to get torn to shreds once he announces. They are going to hang so much on him it won't be funny.
They've done it to Kamala, Beto, Guilibran.... that's obviously the GOP's strategy this time around.  "Yeah, we know our guy is a disgusting, lying creep, but your candidates aren't perfect either.  I had a facebook 'friend' post a Biden story today mentioning people are concerned with his age. She commented. 'age? They should be worried about his hands! #metoo'  I said Biden tends to get a little touchy on people's shoulders and arms. Meanwhile, your guy grans 'em by the p**** and has 20 sexual assault cases against him.   It's going to be a blood bath, and the right is going to desperately try to find dirt on everyone who runs. It's truly amazing what they are willing to overlook with their own guy.  

 
You mean the people the story makes look bad say it's not true? Wow, persuasive argument. Why all the tweet deletions, then?  An amazing coincidence? Why did they not reveal his role on the campaign until the reporter contacted them but then did it immediately thereafter? Another amazing coincidence?

I am relieved to hear you questioning the legitimacy of reporting, though. Quite a turnaround from the guy who signal-boosted a baseless Fox news report about a dead man being involved in a huge conspiracy against the express wishes of his grieving family!  I mean it would be cooler if you did it based on legitimate criticism instead of juvenile name-calling, but still, baby steps.
Looks like you forgot to mention the little frog man this time.  Why, I heard the southern poverty law center and CNN said it’s alt-right!  

 
And I’ll just say the only Democrat I’d feel comfortable supporting at this point is Mike Gravel, but unironically.  

 
Peter #####’s Liaison @SilERabbit

BREAKING: Bernie's in deep trouble in the critical state of Wisconsin.

🥀Barely beating Biden by 15

🥀Barely beating Warren by 25

🥀Barely beating Beto by 33

🥀Barely beating Klobuchar by 35

🥀Barely beating Booker by 37

🥀Barely beating the rest by 38
As important a state as Wisconsin is in the general election, it’s not very important in terms of deciding the nominee. 

 
They've done it to Kamala, Beto, Guilibran.... that's obviously the GOP's strategy this time around.  "Yeah, we know our guy is a disgusting, lying creep, but your candidates aren't perfect either.  I had a facebook 'friend' post a Biden story today mentioning people are concerned with his age. She commented. 'age? They should be worried about his hands! #metoo'  I said Biden tends to get a little touchy on people's shoulders and arms. Meanwhile, your guy grans 'em by the p**** and has 20 sexual assault cases against him.   It's going to be a blood bath, and the right is going to desperately try to find dirt on everyone who runs. It's truly amazing what they are willing to overlook with their own guy.  
Anita Hill hearings, the bankruptcy bill, mass incarceration, etc. That's what I'm talking about not Uncle Joe allegedly being pervy. Which I dont think he really is.

 
Nah.  It’s been interesting to watch the Democratic leadership suppress the populist movement in their party.  It really exposes an allegiance to corporations over popular policy that I think is important.  

Bernie is the elephant in the room; the most popular politician in the country with arguably the strongest support network of anyone running in 2020. And establishment Dems and their media clique want to treat him like an albatross on the party rather than a viable front runner.  It’s hilarious 
I go back and forth on this - and leaving horse race issues out of it - why not run third party? He’s been consistently in a non-Dem party since he was a mayor. 

Btw and maybe this won’t be well received but the David Sirota situation is a little sketchy. 

 
I go back and forth on this - and leaving horse race issues out of it - why not run third party? He’s been consistently in a non-Dem party since he was a mayor. 

Btw and maybe this won’t be well received but the David Sirota situation is a little sketchy. 
I thought he should have, in 2016.  That would have been a lot more honorable than endorsing Clinton after the DNC’s work screwing him and supporting Trump.  He should run an independent campaign in 2020 when the DNC railroads him again.  

Sirota’s a quality journalist.  I don’t think it’s a surprise at all that he’d go to work for a candidate whose policies he actually believes in (or make substantive critiques of the ones whose policies he didn’t).  I think his work is based completely on his own personal convictions, not out of some weird subservience to Bernie or being his ‘twitter attack dog’ or whatever.  To be honest I was kind of glad for him.  

I imagine the overlap between people dogpiling on Sirota here and opportunistic stenographers pretending to be journalists is pretty close.  Many of those same people were teeing off on him for reporting basic facts about Beto’s oil money, back when they smeared him with the ‘forces loyal to Bernie Sanders’ stuff.  

The perception of him as an independent reporter at the time apparently didn’t stop them from painting him as a Sanders goon then either.  

 

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