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2020: The Race For the White House - The Good Place


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Kansas Democratic Party announced some changes to previous primary format for 2020.  Dumping the caucus in favor of a voting primary using Ranked Choice Voting.  Voters can rank up five choices. 

I got Bloomberg by two points over anyone else, and I'm questioning my entire existence.

Sam Stein @samstein

An absolute self defeating comment from Biden. And you'd have to imagine the absolute hell Sanders would pay if he said it about the former VP //

Biden refuses to commit to supporting Sanders if he's the nominee.  Sanders already said he would endorse Biden if the shoe were on the other foot- he has endorsed every Democrat for President since 1996.  

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9 minutes ago, ren hoek said:

Sam Stein @samstein

An absolute self defeating comment from Biden. And you'd have to imagine the absolute hell Sanders would pay if he said it about the former VP //

Biden refuses to commit to supporting Sanders if he's the nominee.  Sanders already said he would endorse Biden if the shoe were on the other foot- he has endorsed every Democrat for President since 1996.  

“This tweet has been deleted.”

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Lisa Lerer @llerer

NEWS: Democratic Majority for Israel set to launch anti-Bernie ad in Iowa. The first Democratic group to go explicitly go after Bernie in either 2016 or 2020. A sign of Bernie's strength in Iowa -- and Democratic establishment fears.

Ryan Grim @ryangrim

Wait, so Democrats are calling for unity while @PaulBegala is on the board of an organization that is going on air to attack the Democratic front-runner, while Begala also appears on CNN to do political punditry. What is this?

The Democratic Majority for Israel, whose board member was just appointed to DNC by Tom Perez, will be running an attack ad on Sanders.  

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1 hour ago, ren hoek said:

Lisa Lerer @llerer

NEWS: Democratic Majority for Israel set to launch anti-Bernie ad in Iowa. The first Democratic group to go explicitly go after Bernie in either 2016 or 2020. A sign of Bernie's strength in Iowa -- and Democratic establishment fears.

Ryan Grim @ryangrim

Wait, so Democrats are calling for unity while @PaulBegala is on the board of an organization that is going on air to attack the Democratic front-runner, while Begala also appears on CNN to do political punditry. What is this?

The Democratic Majority for Israel, whose board member was just appointed to DNC by Tom Perez, will be running an attack ad on Sanders.  

Wish there was an over/under bet on the Bernie attacks we will be seeing the rest of the way.      These type of things are strengthening Bernie's support the same way when negative campaigns were done to Trump in 2016.     This is going to get real ugly.    Dems fighting dems.  :tfp:

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21 hours ago, Getzlaf15 said:

Wish there was an over/under bet on the Bernie attacks we will be seeing the rest of the way.      These type of things are strengthening Bernie's support the same way when negative campaigns were done to Trump in 2016.     This is going to get real ugly.    Dems fighting dems.  :tfp:

Once the circus in Washington packs up this weekend and all the focus is on Iowa Monday the Dems fighting will be on full display.  Judging by the lack of interest in this thread and the Warren, Biden and Bernie threads it appears some people are in for a shock.

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22 hours ago, Getzlaf15 said:

Wish there was an over/under bet on the Bernie attacks we will be seeing the rest of the way.      These type of things are strengthening Bernie's support the same way when negative campaigns were done to Trump in 2016.     This is going to get real ugly.    Dems fighting dems.  :tfp:

Cool, Democratic Majority for Israel attacking the one Jew in the race.

Man, politics are messed up.

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1 hour ago, Widbil83 said:

Once the circus in Washington packs up this weekend and all the focus is on Iowa Monday the Dems fighting will be on full display.  Judging by the lack of interest in this thread and the Warren, Biden and Bernie threads it appears some people are in for a shock.

I will not be surprised if Bernie wins Iowa. I will not be surprised if Biden wins Iowa. I would be surprised if anyone else wins Iowa, and I will be very surprised if Bernie or Joe end up in 3rd place or lower 

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On 1/28/2020 at 8:14 PM, ren hoek said:

Lisa Lerer @llerer

NEWS: Democratic Majority for Israel set to launch anti-Bernie ad in Iowa. The first Democratic group to go explicitly go after Bernie in either 2016 or 2020. A sign of Bernie's strength in Iowa -- and Democratic establishment fears.

Ryan Grim @ryangrim

Wait, so Democrats are calling for unity while @PaulBegala is on the board of an organization that is going on air to attack the Democratic front-runner, while Begala also appears on CNN to do political punditry. What is this?

The Democratic Majority for Israel, whose board member was just appointed to DNC by Tom Perez, will be running an attack ad on Sanders.  

@ericisaac

One of the "regular voters" worried about Bernie's electability in the Pro-Israel PAC personal attack ad on Sanders was a paid staffer for Kamala Harris's campaign. She has a smile on her face while she concern trolls about his health.

Some of the others featured in this video weren't exactly just normal voters. One was a former senate staffer and current lawyer representing medical companies in litigation. One was a Cory Booker organizer. The Kamala staffer was definitely the more egregious example. // 

It's 2016 2.0

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CNBC @CNBC

Elizabeth Warren proposes criminal penalties for spreading (voting) disinformation online // 

I get the spirit of what she's talking about, but I'm weary of handing feds the ability to police false information online.  Almost as frightening as Yang's draconian internet censorship proposals

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1 minute ago, ren hoek said:

CNBC @CNBC

Elizabeth Warren proposes criminal penalties for spreading (voting) disinformation online // 

I get the spirit of what she's talking about, but I'm weary of handing feds the ability to police false information online.  Almost as frightening as Yang's draconian internet censorship proposals

I definitely trust the Trump administration to fairly and objectively identify what counts as disinformation aimed at suppressing turnout.  With a presidential election right around the corner, I don't think we can afford to wait until Warren actually takes office to implement this proposal.  We need to give Trump this power now, and I'm sure Warren would agree.

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42 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

I definitely trust the Trump administration to fairly and objectively identify what counts as disinformation aimed at suppressing turnout.  With a presidential election right around the corner, I don't think we can afford to wait until Warren actually takes office to implement this proposal.  We need to give Trump this power now, and I'm sure Warren would agree.

Can you be specific about what you think Trump would do if Warren's law was enacted today?

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At another board the question was posed to likely Dem voters along the lines of, "which of the Democratic candidates winning the nomination would make you switch your vote to Donald Trump?" Which is kind of a question that approval voting was designed to answer.

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2 hours ago, ren hoek said:

CNBC @CNBC

Elizabeth Warren proposes criminal penalties for spreading (voting) disinformation online // 

I get the spirit of what she's talking about, but I'm weary of handing feds the ability to police false information online.  Almost as frightening as Yang's draconian internet censorship proposals

That won't chill speech at all. Has Warren really thought any of her proposals through?

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2 hours ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

Can you be specific about what you think Trump would do if Warren's law was enacted today?

We know Trump would abuse libel/slander law to silence people who criticize him, because he threatens those sorts of lawsuits all the time.  I don't think it's at all implausible that he would argue that "false" attacks on him amount to voter suppression targeting his supporters.    

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21 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

We know Trump would abuse libel/slander law to silence people who criticize him, because he threatens those sorts of lawsuits all the time.  I don't think it's at all implausible that he would argue that "false" attacks on him amount to voter suppression targeting his supporters.    

So he would complain?  Or you think somehow he would have DOJ go after political opponents using this law?  How do you envision that playing out?

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42 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

So he would complain?  Or you think somehow he would have DOJ go after political opponents using this law?  How do you envision that playing out?

I believe the current DOJ under Bill Barr would use it for political purposes (if it were in charge of enforcement).

Yesterday (or maybe the day before) the DOJ inexplicably changed its sentencing recommendation for Mike Flynn, asking for leniency. My faith in the independence of the current DOJ is weak.

There are an awful lot of Trump-appointed judges out there, too...

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In new Kaiser tracking poll, Public Option remains more popular than M4All.
https://www.kff.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/9394-Figure-3.png?resize=800,450

M4all support has, with minor fluctuations, been pretty stable for the last 18 months.
https://www.kff.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/9394-Figure-1.png?resize=800,450

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33 minutes ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

I believe the current DOJ under Bill Barr would use it for political purposes (if it were in charge of enforcement).

Yesterday (or maybe the day before) the DOJ inexplicably changed its sentencing recommendation for Mike Flynn, asking for leniency. My faith in the independence of the current DOJ is weak.

There are an awful lot of Trump-appointed judges out there, too...

I believe they would want to act corruptly, I'm just not sure that this law would actually allow them to do much of anything.  Maybe I'm being naive on this one.

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47 minutes ago, Mystery Achiever said:

I don't know how many votes Delaney would have peeled away from other moderates, but respect to him for ending his campaign ahead of the caucus to try to avoid it. 

If anything, I think his decision could reduce the total number of votes for other candidates by an extremely insignificant amount. Had Delaney stayed in, his fervent supporters would have shown up to the caucus and moved to their second choices after Delaney didn't hit 15%. Now that he's officially out, all eight of the Delaney Die-Hards may just stay home instead. 

Edited by caustic
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:shrug:I don't love it. Yet another sign that live in an oligarchy not a democracy.

But on the other hand if he's going to burn millions blanketing the country with ads then the other candidates deserve an opportunity to grill him on the debate stage. Might ultimately be a good thing.

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21 minutes ago, ren hoek said:

DNC overhauls debate requirements, opening door for Bloomberg

Why now?  Looks like the DNC desperately wants to make Bloomberg a factor in this. Another centrist to push now that Biden is collapsing.  

Bloomberg is polling reasonably well and the other candidates want him in the debates so they can challenge him.  When the original criteria were set nobody envisioned a candidate refusing to take contributions.

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It's a good point that other candidates could want to challenge him. Also a legit rationale given that donors were proxies for votes, which they'll now start to have. Stage is going to get pretty small for Nevada and SC.
 

ETA- There has actually been a push from progressives to get him in:
"Some Democrats who believe that Bloomberg is avoiding scrutiny by not participating in televised debates with other candidates are pushing the party to allow the billionaire on stage. Adam Green, co-founder of the Progressive Change Campaign Committee, a group that’s endorsed Elizabeth Warren, has said he’s proposed that the party add an exception for candidates who exceed some of the other criteria, such as doing very well in a number of recognized polls."

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3 hours ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

Bloomberg is polling reasonably well and the other candidates want him in the debates so they can challenge him.  When the original criteria were set nobody envisioned a candidate refusing to take contributions.

Just seems like they're changing the rules to accomodate a candidate they like.  In a larger sense it seems like the DNC is projecting its own political preferences.  They would never do that for Gabbard or Yang, or heaven forbid, Mike Gravel, when he qualified for the first debate. 

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Man I hope this Tom Steyer/Sanders thing has a happy ending.  You can tell he really adores him.  It's endearing, like I actually think Steyer is a heartfelt and good person even though he's kind of basic politically.  Sanders responds like Larry David would.  Come on Sanders be nice to him! 

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3 hours ago, Murph said:

:shrug:I don't love it. Yet another sign that live in an oligarchy not a democracy.

But on the other hand if he's going to burn millions blanketing the country with ads then the other candidates deserve an opportunity to grill him on the debate stage. Might ultimately be a good thing.

#BuyTheDNC

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3 hours ago, Murph said:

:shrug:I don't love it. Yet another sign that live in an oligarchy not a democracy.

But on the other hand if he's going to burn millions blanketing the country with ads then the other candidates deserve an opportunity to grill him on the debate stage. Might ultimately be a good thing.

Guessing Sanders will be getting hammered on Israel (among other things).

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Just now, ren hoek said:

Guessing Sanders will be getting hammered on Israel (among other things).

And Sanders can hammer him for stop and frisk, cheerleading the Iraq war, and a host of other things.

To be clear I don't think the DNC has good motives for doing this. But I think the end result might end up being positive.

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31 minutes ago, Murph said:

And Sanders can hammer him for stop and frisk, cheerleading the Iraq war, and a host of other things.

To be clear I don't think the DNC has good motives for doing this. But I think the end result might end up being positive.

It does seem like the relentless smear campaign is backfiring and reeks of desperation mode.  People hate the political/media establishment now and there’s nothing they can do about it.  I guess Bloomberg is the new centrist flavor of the month.  

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4 hours ago, ren hoek said:

DNC overhauls debate requirements, opening door for Bloomberg

Why now?  Looks like the DNC desperately wants to make Bloomberg a factor in this. Another centrist to push now that Biden is collapsing.  

Are there numbers that indicate this is the case? Morning Consult has Biden ahead in Iowa. And he remains a very strong first place in South Carolina.

You, among many others here, have been predicting Biden's collapse for about a half a year now. It hasn't happened. But I would point out that any debate appearance by Bloomberg actually helps Bernie Sanders because it threatens to take votes away from Biden. That should eliminate once and for all the silly DNC conspiracy stuff, but I know it won't...

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4 hours ago, timschochet said:

Are there numbers that indicate this is the case? Morning Consult has Biden ahead in Iowa. And he remains a very strong first place in South Carolina.

You, among many others here, have been predicting Biden's collapse for about a half a year now. It hasn't happened. But I would point out that any debate appearance by Bloomberg actually helps Bernie Sanders because it threatens to take votes away from Biden. That should eliminate once and for all the silly DNC conspiracy stuff, but I know it won't...

Just look at him Tim.  Guy can't talk for 2 seconds without alienating voters.  He's seriously a really bad candidate.  I think Sanders' turnout will be very strong, and I don't always trust the polls to reflect that.  

I don't have any hard data though, I think everyone just sees the writing on the wall for Biden.  The establishment has moved on.

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1 minute ago, ren hoek said:

Just look at him Tim.  Guy can't talk for 2 seconds without alienating voters.  He's seriously a really bad candidate.  I think Sanders' turnout will be very strong, and I don't always trust the polls to reflect that.  

I don't have any hard data though, I think everyone just sees the writing on the wall for Biden.  The establishment has moved on.

Biggest problem I see with him is he’s very clearly hit that old man wall.  He’s a shadow of his former self (not that I thought he was ever anything impressive).   

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2 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

Biggest problem I see with him is he’s very clearly hit that old man wall.  He’s a shadow of his former self (not that I thought he was ever anything impressive).   

Yeah, he looks rough and seems even worse.  He was a very skillful politician back then, in terms of being a shrewd, conniving shyster.  But he owned it at least.

Now he's rebranded himself as one of the good guys, coming out of the bullpen to stop Trump.  Like no one is going to notice he's been a swamp being for 40/50 years.  It's so bad.  

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20 minutes ago, ren hoek said:

Yeah, he looks rough and seems even worse.  He was a very skillful politician back then, in terms of being a shrewd, conniving shyster.  But he owned it at least.

Now he's rebranded himself as one of the good guys, coming out of the bullpen to stop Trump.  Like no one is going to notice he's been a swamp being for 40/50 years.  It's so bad.  

I think a great series of attack ads would be just footage of Biden saying nonsense. And like a whole series of different ones so every commercial break there’s another one.  And then “I’m Buttigieg and I approved this message.”

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1 hour ago, ren hoek said:

The Gravel Institute @GravelInstitute

Mike Gravel qualified for the Democratic debate with a grassroots surge that gave him 67,000 donors. The DNC shut him out.

Mike Bloomberg spent $180 million on a massive ad campaign, donated $250,000 to the DNC, and has exactly 1 donor. The DNC let him debate.

They hate a billionaire as much as anyone can be hated and then change the rules for a billionaire.  And then they will blame losing on some technicality or some other BS.  :lmao:

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12 hours ago, Getzlaf15 said:

They hate a billionaire as much as anyone can be hated and then change the rules for a billionaire.  And then they will blame losing on some technicality or some other BS.  :lmao:

It’s amazing. Finally some Bernie surrogates and Progressives are starting to raise hell over this.

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