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2020: The Race For the White House - The Good Place


Sinn Fein

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Sabato can be a little off-kilter at times, but I think this analysis is correct:

 

Larry Sabato @LarrySabato

“This changes everything!” says an excited TV anchor.

NO IT DOESN’T. Trump’s voters will never defect, and the majority of Americans who oppose Trump see his irresponsibility on masks and serious failures on COVID to be underlined by his illness.#TrumpCovid

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2 minutes ago, KiddLattimer said:

If something happens to Trump and Pence becomes president, how does that work with everyone who already voted? Do Trump votes become Pence votes?

The electoral college still sits between your vote and the actual election.  And maybe your state legislature if there is any controversy.

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9 minutes ago, KiddLattimer said:

If something happens to Trump and Pence becomes president, how does that work with everyone who already voted? Do Trump votes become Pence votes?

Right thought - wrong question.

Pence becoming president, by itself, has no bearing on any votes.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-happens-if-a-presidential-nominee-can-no-longer-run-for-office/

 

And what if something happens very close to Election Day? It’d probably be really hard to pick a replacement in time to update ballots, as most deadlines to certify state ballots would have passed by early October — not to mention other logistical hurdles that could pose problems, such as mailing ballots for overseas military service members in time, or making last-minute adjustments to absentee ballots. It’s entirely possible that if the candidate died only a few days before Nov. 3, voters might not know who the party’s nominee was when they go to the polls.

Again, neither party has experienced this at the top of the ticket, but Republicans did have this happen to a vice presidential candidate in 1912, when sitting Vice President James Sherman died on Oct. 30, just days before the election. This left insufficient time for the RNC to meet and nominate a replacement to join President William Howard Taft on the GOP ticket, but it was also largely a moot point as Taft lost to Woodrow Wilson. The RNC still chose a replacement, Nicholas Murray Butler, president of Columbia University, who received all eight of Sherman’s electoral votes, but it’s unclear whether a new presidential pick would receive the electoral votes intended for the original nominee today.

That’s because, unlike in 1912, more than half the states have laws that attempt to bind electors to a state’s vote. In fact, there’s an ongoing case in front of the Supreme Court about whether members of the Electoral College are free to vote for whomever they want or whether state laws can require them to vote a certain way. And depending on how the court rules, that could affect the ability of individual states to adjust for the unexpected death of a presidential nominee. For instance, Michigan’s law requires an elector to vote for the ticket named on the ballot whereas Florida’s rules say that an elector is to “vote for the candidates of the party that he or she was nominated to represent.”

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3 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

Pence, as president, would not necessarily be the Trump Party's nominee, should Trump be unable to continue in the election.

Gotcha, so they could (and possibly would) go with Haley or something. I'm sure they would LOVE to have the first woman president for their marketing purposes. 

On a side note - it would be really interesting to see how Pence/Haley/generic republican would do against Biden right now, I think they would win pretty easily. 

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1 minute ago, KiddLattimer said:

Gotcha, so they could (and possibly would) go with Haley or something. I'm sure they would LOVE to have the first woman president for their marketing purposes. 

On a side note - it would be really interesting to see how Pence/Haley/generic republican would do against Biden right now, I think they would win pretty easily. 

I don't think its that simple.

 

Trump generates a lot of support by being Trump.  i.e. People support him, because that is what they want.  A Pence/Haley ticket, in any form, does not provide that type of candidate.  So, you might have more support from "moderate" republicans, but you would lose support/enthusiasm from the "uneducated white males"* segment that drives a lot of Trump's existing support.

And, that is before you consider the upheaval that would be caused by a switch in campaign strategies.

 

*this is simply a demographic designation in-line with current polling, nothing more.

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6 minutes ago, KiddLattimer said:

On a side note - it would be really interesting to see how Pence/Haley/generic republican would do against Biden right now, I think they would win pretty easily. 

I didn't believe that this was true in 2016 when the exact same thing was repeated throughout the run up to that election, nor is it true today.  While Trump is a product of the coalition that the GOP built to get their tax cuts and not that special in that way, he is special in that he is the glue that holds this all together.

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7 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

I don't think its that simple.

 

Trump generates a lot of support by being Trump.  i.e. People support him, because that is what they want.  A Pence/Haley ticket, in any form, does not provide that type of candidate.  So, you might have more support from "moderate" republicans, but you would lose support/enthusiasm from the "uneducated white males"* segment that drives a lot of Trump's existing support.

And, that is before you consider the upheaval that would be caused by a switch in campaign strategies.

 

*this is simply a demographic designation in-line with current polling, nothing more.

Yea they would lose some of that support, but in this current situation Trump already brought them to the dance so I would imagine most of them would stay there, especially with a chance to "spite the libs" on the Supreme Court. If it was further out or if (generic republican) had to run a full campaign I agree completely with what you said.

Would definitely be fascinating to see though

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9 minutes ago, Bottomfeeder Sports said:

I didn't believe that this was true in 2016 when the exact same thing was repeated throughout the run up to that election, nor is it true today.  While Trump is a product of the coalition that the GOP built to get their tax cuts and not that special in that way, he is special in that he is the glue that holds this all together.

Its funny I don't think generic republican would have stood a chance vs Hillary in 2016 but I think they'd do quite well against Biden. She had the first woman thing, plus I think she'd be a better pres than Biden anyway. He doesn't really offer anything special and I think a lot of upper middle class republicans would gladly not vote for him in another situation.

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1 hour ago, KiddLattimer said:

If something happens to Trump and Pence becomes president, how does that work with everyone who already voted? Do Trump votes become Pence votes?

Best I understand, nothing happens to the votes unless he dies.  If he dies prior to election day, the GOP picks a new nominee for people to vote on.  If he dies after election day, the electors are given the new candidate and vote...there is no re-vote by the people.  I think your specific question "depends on state rules".  For example...I've voted and sent my ballot in.  Should something happen, I can go to my voting place on election day and do a provisional ballot that would have the new names on them.

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I am sure I am missing a path for Trump to take here - but this seems odd:

 

Medium Buying@MediumBuying · 40m

The Trump campaign is again canceling TV ad schedules that had been booked in OHIO (10/6-10/12 flight) Comes as Biden is set to go up on TV statewide in the Buckeye State

 

It might be as simple as a cash crunch, or the Trump campaign has found a more efficient means of reaching those voters, but it seems weird to go silent in Ohio.

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1 hour ago, Sinn Fein said:

I am sure I am missing a path for Trump to take here - but this seems odd:

 

Medium Buying@MediumBuying · 40m

The Trump campaign is again canceling TV ad schedules that had been booked in OHIO (10/6-10/12 flight) Comes as Biden is set to go up on TV statewide in the Buckeye State

 

It might be as simple as a cash crunch, or the Trump campaign has found a more efficient means of reaching those voters, but it seems weird to go silent in Ohio.

Perhaps he and Hillary aren't all that different in their ability to analyze reality?  Anyone inside the admin saying this is a bad idea?

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On 9/30/2020 at 1:25 PM, Sinn Fein said:

Rather than start a new topic - I am just going to bury this here:

 

How likely do you think it is that Trump finishes his term, if Biden wins the election?

I don't believe that Trump would stand in the way of a peaceful transition of power, but at the same time, I can't picture him attending Biden's inauguration in January.  I think he resigns early, hands over the lame duck session to Pence at some point - maybe hoping for a blanket pardon?

I also have a hard time seeing Trump carrying on the tradition of leaving a personal note for the incoming president, offering encouragement and support.

Hard to believe I made this post pre-COVID.

If Trump loses the election, I think it becomes very unlikely that Trump stays until the end of his term.  The COVID infection gives him the out to say he is resigning for health reasons.

If that happens, I think it would be best for everyone - Trump can focus on his health, Pence can focus on transfer of power, Biden can focus on his transition - and the county can simply move forward.

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This is kind of a fun, wonkish, look at 10 counties across the country that offer a microcosm of the 2020 election.

NYT op-ed - by Dave Wasserman, editor of Cook Political Report

The 10 Bellwether Counties

 

In an era of stark political polarization, it is difficult to find any one place that is a true microcosm of the country. But it is possible to find places on which the November election pivots. These communities that hold the key to the vote are as varied as the nation — and they reflect a notable inversion of its politics.

Polls now show Joe Biden with a surprising opportunity to capture Sun Belt suburbs that have voted reliably Republican for decades. He is also performing better than Hillary Clinton did in 2016 — but perhaps not as well as Barack Obama did in 2008 and 2012 — in heavily white, historically blue Frost Belt small towns and midsize cities where Donald Trump enjoyed a breakthrough in 2016.

These 10 bellwether counties — five in Sun Belt battlegrounds, five in the Frost Belt (loosely defined to include Iowa) — could point us toward each state’s winner. They run the gamut from meatpacking hubs to white-collar office parks, and from peach orchards to yacht-dense retiree havens. But there is something they all have in common: Their votes will matter a lot.

To win the White House, Mr. Biden will need to flip some combination of the 10 states Mr. Trump carried by less than 10 points in 2016 (in ascending order of margin): Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Florida, Arizona, North Carolina, Georgia, Ohio, Texas and Iowa. Mr. Biden has several paths to victory, and the first three states alone, in addition to every state won by Hillary Clinton, would be enough to put him into the Oval Office.

Conversely, Mr. Trump would likely need to win at least eight of those 10 states for a second term. A look at these bellwethers — all either tossups or leaning toward Mr. Biden — makes clear that Mr. Trump is in serious trouble.

Frost Belt

1. Kent County, Mich. (pop. 656,955)

Outlook: Lean Biden

The prosperous home of Herman Miller office chairs, the DeVos family’s Amway empire and President Gerald Ford, Grand Rapids was long a Republican bastion owing to its deeply conservative Dutch Reformed roots. But its white-collar work force has soured on Mr. Trump’s party, and in 2016 Mr. Trump won Kent County by just three points, down from Mitt Romney’s eight-point margin.

Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, a Democrat, carried Kent County by four points in 2018, and Mr. Biden has a strong chance to win it in November. Private polls of the Third Congressional District, which covers much of Kent County, show Mr. Biden with a slight lead.

2. Wood County, Ohio (pop. 130,817)

Outlook: Tossup

Wood County, just south of Toledo, has multiple personalities. At its northern end are close-in Toledo bedroom communities. It has a strong affinity for rural culture: its county seat, Bowling Green, hosts the National Tractor Pulling Championships each August. And its diesel-fueled culture might be balanced out by Bowling Green State University (enrollment 19,905), a trove of Democratic votes.

Wood County is a decent bellwether of the state: Mr. Trump carried it by eight points in 2016, matching his statewide margin. In 2018, Senator Sherrod Brown, a Democrat, carried it by 11 points. The Biden campaign has run ads in the Toledo broadcast market, which conveniently covers part of Michigan, too.

3. Erie County, Penn. (pop. 269,728)

Outlook: Lean Biden

Philadelphia and Pittsburgh hog the spotlight, but Pennsylvania’s electoral ground zero might be its far northwest corner. The lakefront city of Erie is famous for assembling locomotives and packaging Smith’s meats. After decades of layoffs, it’s now home to a large population of refugees and the nation’s largest medical school by enrollment, Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine.

Erie was also the site of a big Trump breakthrough in 2016: He carried the county by nearly two points, defying decades of Democratic dominance owing to a strong union heritage. Mr. Trump likely needs to win it again to keep Pennsylvania in his column. A February Mercyhurst University poll showed Mr. Biden leading Mr. Trump 48 percent to 44 percent in Erie County, and that was before Covid-19 made headlines.

4. Sauk County, Wis. (pop. 64,442)

Outlook: Lean Biden

Sauk County is a popular summer vacation destination and home to the state’s largest indoor water park. Its county seat, Baraboo, was the birthplace of the Ringling Brothers circus and houses the International Clown Hall of Fame and Research Center.

In 2016, Sauk County voted for a different showman — Mr. Trump — by 0.4 points after twice voting handily for Mr. Obama. In 2018, it voted for Gov. Tony Evers, a Democrat, by 10 points. Mr. Trump’s campaign is counting on its door-knocking efforts, in contrast to Mr. Biden’s mostly virtual outreach, to keep it red. But Wisconsin’s expanding Covid-19 “red zone” could throw a wrench in the Republican ground game.

5. Marshall County, Iowa (pop. 39,369)

Outlook: Tossup

Marshalltown, about 50 miles northeast of Des Moines, has been hit hard by the coronavirus: In April, it experienced Covid-19 outbreaks at both the 500-bed Iowa Veterans Home and the giant JBS Swift meatpacking plant. And in August, a derecho tore through town, damaging over 700 buildings. Rebuilding is likely to take years.

In 2016, Marshall County voted for Mr. Trump by eight points after voting twice for Mr. Obama by nine points. But the unpopularity of Gov. Kim Reynolds — her approval rating in August on her handling of the pandemic, was the lowest among all governors — is compounding Republicans’ problems this year. Statewide polls show both Mr. Trump and another Republican, Senator Joni Ernst, struggling to carry Iowa.

The meatpacking industry has attracted thousands of new Hispanic residents, many of whom could be first-time voters. From 2000 to 2019, the Hispanic or Latino share of Marshall County’s population surged to 23 percent from 9 percent.

Sun Belt

6. Maricopa County, Ariz. (pop. 4,485,414)

Outlook: Lean Biden

Maricopa County is crucial to the state outcome; it’s home to Phoenix and 62 percent of Arizona’s residents. The county is also a living portrait of why Arizona has become so competitive: It has a young and fast-growing Hispanic population, conservative-leaning retirees from California and elsewhere and a substantial number of Mormons who once reliably voted Republican but remain skeptical of Mr. Trump.

In 2016, Mr. Trump carried Maricopa by three points, down from Mitt Romney’s 11-point margin in 2012. In 2018, the Democrat Kyrsten Sinema carried it by four points en route to winning a Senate seat, aided by gains in highly professional suburbs.

A mid-September Monmouth University poll showed Mr. Biden leading Mr. Trump in Maricopa County 50 percent to 41 percent, a sign that Arizona’s largest county continues to trend left.

7. Pinellas County, Fla. (pop. 974,996)

Outlook: Lean Biden

With a median age of 48 and hordes of retirees from the Midwest, Pinellas, which includes St. Petersburg, has one of the oldest populations in America. In 2012, it voted for Mr. Obama by six points, but in 2016 Mr. Trump carried it by a single point, matching his statewide margin. So far, Mr. Biden appears to be polling better than Mrs. Clinton among older voters.

A late August survey by St. Pete Polls showed Mr. Biden leading Mr. Trump 54 percent to 40 percent in the 13th Congressional District, which covers most of Pinellas. Pinellas could offer an early assessment of Florida on election night. If Mr. Trump loses Pinellas, he’ll have to make up for it with gains elsewhere — especially among Cuban-American voters in Miami-Dade County.

8. Peach County, Ga. (pop. 27,546)

Outlook: Tossup

Peach County lives up to its name: It’s the home of two of the biggest peach-packing houses in Georgia. Politically, there may be no better bellwether in the state.

The population is 52 percent white and 44 percent Black, and its voting is racially polarized. In 2012, Peach County voted by seven points for Mr. Obama. But in 2016, Black turnout dropped sharply, and Mr. Trump won it by three points. Peach County could be a good indicator of whether the addition of Senator Kamala Harris to Mr. Biden’s ticket improves Black turnout.

So far, Mr. Trump is polling marginally better among Black voters, particularly young men, than he did in 2016. But Democrats hope that higher African-American engagement — including a strong surge in absentee-ballot requests — more than offsets it in places like Peach County.

9. New Hanover County, N.C. (pop. 234,473)

Outlook: Tossup

Wilmington’s most famous export might be Michael Jordan, but more recently its bustling movie and TV production industry has earned it the nicknames “Hollywood East” and “Wilmywood.” It was North Carolina’s largest city until the early 20th century, and today it might be its swingiest: Any entertainment industry leftism might be canceled out by a heavy military and retiree presence.

The county hasn’t voted for a Democrat for president since 1976, and in 2016, it voted for Mr. Trump by four points, approximating the state’s result. But it’s home to plenty of the types of voters with whom Mr. Biden is doing well nationally: older people, African-Americans and upper-income suburbanites (Whole Foods Market arrived in Wilmington in 2012). It could well go blue in 2020.

10. Collin County, Texas (pop. 1,034,730)

Outlook: Tossup

Everything is bigger in Texas — including the suburban backlash against Mr. Trump — and the political metamorphosis underway in Dallas’s white-collar northern suburbs is happening at a dizzying pace. Since 2010, Collin’s population has boomed 32 percent and is now one-sixth Asian.

In 2012, Collin County voted for Mitt Romney by 31 points. But in 2016, it voted for Mr. Trump by 17 points, and in the 2018 midterms Senator Ted Cruz carried it over Beto O’Rourke by just six points. Despite Texas’s old Wild West stereotype, the state now has one of the most metropolitan and diverse electorates in the country — and Mr. Trump’s erosion in its sprawling suburbs explains Mr. Biden’s surprising opportunity.

At least three polls conducted for lower-tier races show Mr. Biden tied or leading Mr. Trump in the Third Congressional District, which covers most of Collin County — a stunning development to Texas political analysts.

 

Bonus: Vigo County, Ind. (pop. 107,038)

Outlook: Lean Trump

Perhaps the most widely cited bellwether in the country, Vigo, which includes Terre Haute, is the only county in America that has voted for the winner of every presidential race since 1956. But it may lose that status in 2020: In 2016, it broke for Mr. Trump by a whopping 15 points, and it’s easy to see him carrying it again this fall, even if he loses the presidency.

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4 Funny Feelings About 2020

Interesting things to watch:

1.   Trump fatigue is peaking at the wrong time for Trump.

2.  The “silent majority” in this election is not who you think it is.

3.  Democrats will regret placing so much emphasis on absentee voting.

4. Trump losing women voters at historic levels.

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7 hours ago, Sinn Fein said:

4 Funny Feelings About 2020

Interesting things to watch:

1.   Trump fatigue is peaking at the wrong time for Trump.

2.  The “silent majority” in this election is not who you think it is.

3.  Democrats will regret placing so much emphasis on absentee voting.

4. Trump losing women voters at historic levels.

The article discusses worry that Trump could lose female voters by as much as 20 points. The new CNN poll has him losing with women by 34!

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On 9/30/2020 at 2:22 PM, Maurile Tremblay said:

I hope that he resigns and I would be willing to live with a blanket pardon if that's part of the deal. I don't care about attending the inauguration, but I do care about the transition. The outgoing administration is supposed to prepare a bunch of reports to help guide the incoming administration. Trump's team famously didn't read the stuff prepared by Obama's team, and I fear that Trump will instruct his administration not to prepare any documents to help Biden's administration. (I imagine they'll be busy destroying evidence instead.) I suspect that Pence would be way more presidential in that regard.

Fortunately, Biden should already have a decent handle on how things in the White House work. But a smooth transition would be helpful for the country.

Early in my career, I was asked to take over an underperforming team from a colleague who had been running this team for about 2 years.    She was being assigned to some do nothing job elsewhere.     As part of the transition, she prepared a 20 plus page binder detailing a lot of the steps she had used to mismanage this team for the previous 2 years.

 Although I was polite and cordial with her, I took one look at the binder and threw it in the trash.

 Sometimes the best course of action to get results is to start with a fresh sheet of paper.

 

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5 minutes ago, spodog said:

Early in my career, I was asked to take over an underperforming team from a colleague who had been running this team for about 2 years.    She was being assigned to some do nothing job elsewhere.     As part of the transition, she prepared a 20 plus page binder detailing a lot of the steps she had used to mismanage this team for the previous 2 years.

 Although I was polite and cordial with her, I took one look at the binder and threw it in the trash.

 Sometimes the best course of action to get results is to start with a fresh sheet of paper.

 

You're right.  I'd be surprised if the Biden camp trusted anything left by the Trump camp.  

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30 minutes ago, caustic said:

He must be aiming for a victory like this.  Spending in Nevada is a bit of a head-scratcher.  He seems to be in deep trouble by relying on PA although there probably isn't a way around that.  If he has to spend lots of money to defend OH and IA, he'd probably be doomed regardless.

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4 minutes ago, Prinefan said:

You're right.  I'd be surprised if the Biden camp trusted anything left by the Trump camp.  

I think it's more probably that they would have a few bottles of wine, and read them aloud to each other, and whoever is the last to laugh out loud WINS!

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29 minutes ago, Juxtatarot said:

He must be aiming for a victory like this.  Spending in Nevada is a bit of a head-scratcher.  He seems to be in deep trouble by relying on PA although there probably isn't a way around that.  If he has to spend lots of money to defend OH and IA, he'd probably be doomed regardless.

I guess he could lose PA and win WI/MN or MI (while retaining AZ) but that seems farfetched to me.

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35 minutes ago, Juxtatarot said:

But if he's pulling ads from WI, MN, and MI, he is likely giving up on those scenarios.  

If he's still up in NV there is a path with NV, AZ and either CO or NM (this is something close to the Bush '04 map) if he thinks the more viable path is with Hispanics which have been polling better than '16 for him (one of the few areas).  Having said that, that requires CO or NM to flip which seems like a lower probability event than a pure path in the Midwest. 

Conceivably he could do NV, AZ and then MI or WI, but that seems like a much lower probability event than the straight Mountain West or Midwest path as it relies on two groups swinging back to him as opposed to just one. 

There's also been a lot of rumblings that the Republican money people pulled the plug on him and are just concentrating on the holding Senate.  

Edited by Sammy3469
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1 hour ago, Juxtatarot said:
1 hour ago, caustic said:

He must be aiming for a victory like this.  Spending in Nevada is a bit of a head-scratcher.  He seems to be in deep trouble by relying on PA although there probably isn't a way around that.  If he has to spend lots of money to defend OH and IA, he'd probably be doomed regardless.

Maybe he hired Hillary's campaign team? :shrug:

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1 hour ago, Juxtatarot said:
1 hour ago, caustic said:

He must be aiming for a victory like this.  Spending in Nevada is a bit of a head-scratcher.  He seems to be in deep trouble by relying on PA although there probably isn't a way around that.  If he has to spend lots of money to defend OH and IA, he'd probably be doomed regardless.

Naw, it makes sense. The true goal is to flip FL and PA (gonna be tough.) But if he pulls that off - big if - AND wins five toss-up states (Georgia, Iowa, North Carolina, Ohio, Texas), that gets him to 267. Flip Nevada and he's re-elected.

Backup plan: go to the courts to get absentee and mail in ballots thrown out in close races. If it gets that far, this SCOTUS will play ball.

Backup to the Backup plan: have Republican controlled legislatures appoint their own electors. That's what was about to happen in 2000 when Gore conceded.

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1 hour ago, spodog said:

Early in my career, I was asked to take over an underperforming team from a colleague who had been running this team for about 2 years.    She was being assigned to some do nothing job elsewhere.     As part of the transition, she prepared a 20 plus page binder detailing a lot of the steps she had used to mismanage this team for the previous 2 years.

 Although I was polite and cordial with her, I took one look at the binder and threw it in the trash.

 Sometimes the best course of action to get results is to start with a fresh sheet of paper.

 

Obama was not underperforming there...especially not compared to this administration that would have been much better off listening to several bits of advice from Obama.  You know, like not hiring Flynn.

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37 minutes ago, BobbyLayne said:

Naw, it makes sense. The true goal is to flip FL and PA (gonna be tough.) But if he pulls that off - big if - AND wins five toss-up states (Georgia, Iowa, North Carolina, Ohio, Texas), that gets him to 267. Flip Nevada and he's re-elected.

 

Yeah, I was looking at that after posting. If he wins NV he could lose AZ.

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Been specifically counting yard signs in the neighborhood. My neighborhood is in a very purple area in NC. We are a mixed race neighborhood that has been historically gerrymandered. The egde of our Congressional district is 100 feet from my house. The loop I walk my dogs on is 4 to 1 Biden over Trump. I went for a walk down the entire length of a street in the next district over. This neighborhood has been gerrymandered into the next district for a reason. It is pretty much exclusively white and has been reliably Republican. It was 3-0 Biden over Trump. There were 4 houses with Democrat signs, but no Biden Signs. 2 GOP, no Trump houses. 

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Yet another large group of respected officials in national security coming together and saying Trump is dangerously unfit for office

More deep state stuff, I guess.

If the people who should know the best are saying this, why wouldn't you pay attention to that?

A group of 73 former U.S. National Security officials who served under GOP administrations, including former CIA and FBI chiefs, endorsed Democratic nominee Joe Biden in a joint statement on Thursday, joining the growing number of prominent Republicans to depart from their party for the 2020 election

 

KEY FACTS

“We are profoundly concerned about the course of our nation under the leadership of Donald Trump,” reads the statement, which accuses the president of lacking “character and competence” and engaging in “corrupt behavior that renders him unfit to serve as president.” 

Among the statement’s signees are officials who served under Presidents Ronald Reagan, George H. W. Bush, George W. Bush and Donald Trump, some of whom have served in the country’s top defense and intelligence roles. 

Former CIA head General Michael Hayden, former FBI and CIA chief William Webster, former National Intelligence director Michael Leiter and former Air Force secretary Mike Donley are among the officials now siding with Biden. 

The group accuses Trump of “[aligning] himself with dictators and human rights abusers,” such as North Korea’s Kim Jong Un and Russia’s Vladimir Putin, attempting to undermine the rule of law, failing to lead America through the pandemic, attacking and vilifying immigrants, and “gravely” damaging the U.S.’s role as a world leader. 

The former National Security officials say that while their policies don’t necessarily align with Joe Biden’s, they believe “he will restore the dignity of the presidency” and “reassert America’s role as a global leader.” 

CRUCIAL QUOTE 

“While we—like all Americans —had hoped that Donald Trump would govern wisely, he has disappointed millions of voters who put their faith in him and has demonstrated that he is dangerously unfit to serve another term,” reads the statement

Edited by gianmarco
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On 10/7/2020 at 4:43 PM, spodog said:
On 9/30/2020 at 3:22 PM, Maurile Tremblay said:

I hope that he resigns and I would be willing to live with a blanket pardon if that's part of the deal. I don't care about attending the inauguration, but I do care about the transition. The outgoing administration is supposed to prepare a bunch of reports to help guide the incoming administration. Trump's team famously didn't read the stuff prepared by Obama's team, and I fear that Trump will instruct his administration not to prepare any documents to help Biden's administration. (I imagine they'll be busy destroying evidence instead.) I suspect that Pence would be way more presidential in that regard.

Fortunately, Biden should already have a decent handle on how things in the White House work. But a smooth transition would be helpful for the country.

Early in my career, I was asked to take over an underperforming team from a colleague who had been running this team for about 2 years.    She was being assigned to some do nothing job elsewhere.     As part of the transition, she prepared a 20 plus page binder detailing a lot of the steps she had used to mismanage this team for the previous 2 years.

 Although I was polite and cordial with her, I took one look at the binder and threw it in the trash.

 Sometimes the best course of action to get results is to start with a fresh sheet of paper.

Couple things here...first, I'd agree 100% with you if it were Trump actually writing this thing...it would be pointless.  Second, there is a vast majority of people he's appointed that this would probably apply to as well.  However, there are some career people who contribute significantly to these reports with invaluable information/insight and it would be to the country's detriment to ignore their positions. 

Guess the point is, from one individual to another, I see the point and agree that whatever Trump would give would be a complete waste of time.  However, it's not just one individual to another and I am guessing the complexities of the country and details in reports like these are significantly different than the team you were taking over....apples/oranges and all that.

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2 hours ago, The Commish said:

Couple things here...first, I'd agree 100% with you if it were Trump actually writing this thing...it would be pointless.  Second, there is a vast majority of people he's appointed that this would probably apply to as well.  However, there are some career people who contribute significantly to these reports with invaluable information/insight and it would be to the country's detriment to ignore their positions. 

Guess the point is, from one individual to another, I see the point and agree that whatever Trump would give would be a complete waste of time.  However, it's not just one individual to another and I am guessing the complexities of the country and details in reports like these are significantly different than the team you were taking over....apples/oranges and all that.

My hope is that the stuff prepared by Obama's team still exists and the Biden administration can use those.

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1 hour ago, Marauder said:

My hope is that the stuff prepared by Obama's team still exists and the Biden administration can use those.

The largest thing out there is national security and I'm fairly confident our President doesn't know at least some of the situation and that those agencies are absolutely capable of bringing the next President up to speed.  Outside of that, I'm not sure there are significant internal issues that Trump would be able to hide and I'm also confident Biden still remembers who was on the cabinets and who can help him fill in any blanks that might be missing.

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2 hours ago, gianmarco said:

An interesting read from a Canadian.

A perspective into how the US is currently viewed.

Maybe this is me being naive again but I think if Trump loses badly enough he will have no choice but to leave in a mostly orderly fashion.  I don’t see there being a lot of politicians sticking their necks out once it’s obvious he’s lost.  Meaning the vocal and silent cover they’ve been giving him because it’s politically prudent won’t exist.  

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30 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

Maybe this is me being naive again but I think if Trump loses badly enough he will have no choice but to leave in a mostly orderly fashion.  I don’t see there being a lot of politicians sticking their necks out once it’s obvious he’s lost.  Meaning the vocal and silent cover they’ve been giving him because it’s politically prudent won’t exist.  

Two choices in my opinion- either fight like hell to stay president, or resign and be pardoned before you leave office and then never go back to New York. (Or win the election, 3 choices) He pretty much can play both hands here- he has a month or so to try the courts. They could rule he lost and he could still have time to bow out and receive a pardon. 

To your last point, I’ll be interested to see what some republicans say once he’s out of power. Obviously we have seen the before/after election videos of hypocrisy; will they flop back to their original thinking/statements or will they continue to proclaim him the greatest? Trump doesn’t come up with all these schemes and workarounds himself. Republicans right now can do pretty much whatever they want, no one is paying attention to them and everyone just sticks the blame on Trump. 

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32 minutes ago, Snorkelson said:

Two choices in my opinion- either fight like hell to stay president, or resign and be pardoned before you leave office and then never go back to New York. (Or win the election, 3 choices) He pretty much can play both hands here- he has a month or so to try the courts. They could rule he lost and he could still have time to bow out and receive a pardon. 

To your last point, I’ll be interested to see what some republicans say once he’s out of power. Obviously we have seen the before/after election videos of hypocrisy; will they flop back to their original thinking/statements or will they continue to proclaim him the greatest? Trump doesn’t come up with all these schemes and workarounds himself. Republicans right now can do pretty much whatever they want, no one is paying attention to them and everyone just sticks the blame on Trump. 

I guess I see a fourth option - he throws a daily tantrum that everyone basically ignores.

i disagree no one is paying attention to Republicans enabling Trump.  Even within my small circle of friends I have 3-4 who would probably be labeled fiscally conservative - all have acknowledged that Trump is not being held accountable by Republicans.  There’s a sentiment among us that Trump and Trump enablers need to be voted out.

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