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Taysom Hill - NO Saints - QB (but also other things...)


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Just now, Snorkelson said:

 I’m advocating that you could possibly have a better WAR by using that roster spot elsewhere if you’re kicker could punt halfway decent.

I think it would sort of depend what the 52nd man brings to your roster. Is WAR increased more by having another backup or are even five net punting yards on average -- and that can add up quickly -- more desirable? I think the specialists trump the 52nd man when measuring that. 

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Seems to be a lot of negative sentiment towards Hill on twitter and in the media, like most people are eager for him to fail for some reason (I guess to validate their preconceived notion of him as no

I decided to grab him.  if i put him in at the TE spot and he actually plays and scores a lot, it will be one of my favorite FF things ever.

Like a TE1.

59 minutes ago, rockaction said:

I think it would sort of depend what the 52nd man brings to your roster. Is WAR increased more by having another backup or are even five net punting yards on average -- and that can add up quickly -- more desirable? I think the specialists trump the 52nd man when measuring that. 

Over time that roster spot may produce a difference maker as well, although that may be hard to quantify.

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On 3/7/2020 at 4:59 AM, Snorkelson said:

I’ve often wondered why teams don’t have players like hill. Imagine the value of a guy that can/will fill

1. special teams

2. backup qb

3. Wr5

4. Rb4

That’s at least 3 spots usually filled by different players. Having extra roster flexibility seems invaluable. Imagine if your kicker could also punt effectively- cap savings and a roster spot (even if you pay that guy more.) It seems like a no brainer- I mean, what are kickers, punters with bad hands? Honestly it seems really stupid to pay 2 guys to do those kicks. Imagine paying 2 cooks at a restaurant- one cooks the steaks, and one cooks the burgers, but there is never more than one steak or one burger being cooked. Maybe burger guy has some more experience making perfect burgers, but the steak guy could probably be nearly as effective. 
That said, it’s equally baffling to me when a kicker gets injured and a team brings out ndamakong suh for the extra point....

Russell Erxleben should’ve ended the K/P debate for all time.

But Brad Smith with the Jets was a guy I recall who could’ve been used more extensively. Randle-El too. And Tebow could have extended his career if he had just agreed to play FB/RB/TE/ST as well as backup QB. The main problem is NFL coaches. There are more great athletes out there, there is just a startling amount of recycling and safe thinking in coaching. The silly thing is how adaptable the NFL’s old rugby based rules are yet how few coaches, Belichick excepted, take advantage of it. 

Edited by SaintsInDome2006
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Saints signed QB Taysom Hill to a one-year extension through 2021. 

The news breaks the same morning it has been reported the Saints are about to sign Jameis Winston to be Drew Brees' direct backup. It could be an accounting gimmick to clear cap space — the Saints are currently near the bottom, as usual — and spread out Hill's $4.66 million salary over the next two years. Coach Sean Payton's infatuation with Hill is undeniable, but he has also made it clear he does not view Hill as a legitimate backup for Brees.  

SOURCE: Adam Schefter on Twitter 

Apr 26, 2020, 11:54 AM ET

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Taysom Hill has zero TD passes. Now he’s the NFL’s second-highest paid backup quarterback.

 

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Saints signed QB Taysom Hill to a two-year, $21 million contract. 

Yahoo's Charles Robinson reports the deal includes $16 million guaranteed. Good grief. It is a staggering amount of money for a "quarterback" who attempted six passes last season even as Drew Brees missed five games. Hill handled a modest 46 touches as an offensive weapon. He was efficient both as a runner and receiver, but it is extremely hard to believe the Saints could not receive similar wild cat production from a running back or receiver. Paying Hill this kind of money when he once again will not even be Brees' official backup — Jameis Winston is poised to sign — is frankly ludicrous. It almost has to hint at an expanded role for 2020. Coach Sean Payton is one of the NFL's top minds, but he is really out there with this one.  

SOURCE: Charles Robinson on Twitter 

Apr 26, 2020, 12:08 PM ET

Edited by Faust
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5 hours ago, JohnnyU said:

waiver wire fodder

I don't think so. Why else guarantee him $16 million over the next 2 years? I think they are going to use him more, how else do you justify that contract? He's making more than Gurley, Gordon, and Howard over the next 2 seasons. :shrug:

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Taysom Hill things are overrated as Hell. What a horrible contract.

Edited by The Frankman
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I think I'm going to trust the Saints' own view of their backup personnel over Rotoworld's. Just saying. Bridgewater last year made a nice, winning record fill-in while Brees left. Didn't he go 5-0 or 4-1? A little humility would go a long way at Roto. 

Edited by rockaction
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Hill saved the Saints in the playoff win vs the Eagles 3 years ago and practically did it again Vs the Vikes. He seems to be the only thing that has woken them out of their slumber in some games. I’d say he’s worth it. 

The Saints also drafted a junior Hill in Stevens. I’m not sure if that will pan out but obviously they intend to scale back Hill’s special teams work.

Edited by SaintsInDome2006
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New development in ESPN leagues.

Tayson status has been changed, he is now listed as a TE/Flex.

He got paid so they are going to use him and now that he's listed as a TE/Flex he 'may' hold some value.

--------------------------------------

Mike Clay@MikeClayNFL

Big news - Saints OW Taysom Hill has been granted TE/Flex eligibility in

@ESPNFantasy

leagues. He will no longer be eligible at QB, though we reserve the right to strip TE/Flex and add QB if he takes over as starter during the 2020 season. Plan accordingly, deep leaguers!

9:59 AM · Apr 29, 2020

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The Athletic's Jay Glazer believes Taysom Hill will be "the guy" for the Saints after Drew Brees retires.

"No smokescreen, he’s the guy," Glazer said while answering a mailbag question. "Sean Payton loves him but it’s not just him, the whole team loves him." Glazer went on to hype Hill even more, calling him a "bigger Lamar Jackson." This isn't the first time we've seen that wild comparison. Jackson just won the freaking MVP award; Hill is a 30-year-old (in August) who has attempted 13 passes in his NFL career. Color us skeptical that the Saints are this sold on Hill being the answer, though we do expect him to get every opportunity to win that spot. Jameis Winston could easily put himself into the equation as well with a strong year backing up Brees.

SOURCE: The Athletic

May 20, 2020, 10:10 AM ET

 

 

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50 minutes ago, Faust said:

The Athletic's Jay Glazer believes Taysom Hill will be "the guy" for the Saints after Drew Brees retires.

Just reading this and laughing out loud.

Who the :censored: was Tony Romo before Sean Payton got a hold of him.

I don't really like or trust scuttlebutt like Glazer "while answering a mailbag question", and all the PFT rumor milling and all that. There's nothing (absolutely nothing) going on sportswise, so red meat like this is so in demand.

But it really does fit Payton's mindset. It's not like he's trying to prove something, he just is a big believer in team chemistry, on field momentum, intangibles, and sort of a to hell with it attitude. LOL I really love it. This is a horrible comp but the Saints did this with John Fourcade way back in the day. I mean there's no comp in any way except random backup QB who showed big college promise but went undrafted won the hearts and minds of players nad fans and became the starter. Pfft, I dunno, whynot. Just ask me for a list of the Saints' starting QBs after getting past the first 4 or so, it's so so ugly. Hill would walk in with a shot to be perhaps 2nd, 3rd or 4th best all time for the team, I kid you not.

Edited by SaintsInDome2006
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On ‎3‎/‎9‎/‎2020 at 7:55 AM, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Russell Erxleben should’ve ended the K/P debate for all time.

But Brad Smith with the Jets was a guy I recall who could’ve been used more extensively. Randle-El too. And Tebow could have extended his career if he had just agreed to play FB/RB/TE/ST as well as backup QB. The main problem is NFL coaches. There are more great athletes out there, there is just a startling amount of recycling and safe thinking in coaching. The silly thing is how adaptable the NFL’s old rugby based rules are yet how few coaches, Belichick excepted, take advantage of it. 

I'd never heard of Erxleben, so I had to google to get his story. Pretty amazing. Thanks SID

https://www.si.com/nfl/saints/news/messed-up-life-of-the-most-hated-man-in-saints-history

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3 hours ago, JohnnyU said:

Can this guy throw the ball accurately?  Asking for a friend.

If he can't it's going to be extremely interesting to see how Michael Thomas reacts because he really cares about his numbers.

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I’m not a believer. Dude’s 30, and he’s thrown like 14 passes in his career.

lots of smoke here, not a ton of fire.

i am very interested in obtaining Winston in dynasty though. So all the Hill talk could help tank Winston’s value even more (didn’t think that was possible before now). 

That feels like a sneaky good play depending on what the owner will sell for. 

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy
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3 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

I’m not a believer. Dude’s 30, and he’s thrown like 14 passes in his career.

lots of smoke here, not a ton of fire.

i am very interested in obtaining Winston in dynasty though. So all the Hill talk could help tank Winston’s value even more (didn’t think that was possible before now). 

That feels like a sneaky good play depending on what the owner will sell for. 

Damn, how is this guy 30?  I had to double check that...

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6 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

I’m not a believer. Dude’s 30, and he’s thrown like 14 passes in his career.

lots of smoke here, not a ton of fire.

i am very interested in obtaining Winston in dynasty though. So all the Hill talk could help tank Winston’s value even more (didn’t think that was possible before now). 

That feels like a sneaky good play depending on what the owner will sell for. 

Same here. Can’t see him ever being a legit starting QB, much less long-term.

Part of what keeps it alive is Payton’s insistence of the contrary.

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3 hours ago, Football Jones said:

Part of what keeps it alive is Payton’s insistence of the contrary.

Payton's actions have seemed to consistently contradict this over the past year: signing Bridgewater and playing him ahead of Hill went Brees went down last year - and then signing Winston this offseason. Weird situation. 

Edited by Inspiration
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Crazy and yet, is it?

The guy hasn't thrown much in NFL, but is now only preparing to do it. Can he do it? I think we have to give him a chance like we did give Lamar a chance... oh wait, no one here gave Lamar a chance. Is he the Lamar? No. Can he be effective NFL QB? There's no reason for be to believe otherwise until he gets that chance...

I'm a believer

Edited by Fireinside
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6 hours ago, Fireinside said:

Crazy and yet, is it?

The guy hasn't thrown much in NFL, but is now only preparing to do it. Can he do it? I think we have to give him a chance like we did give Lamar a chance... oh wait, no one here gave Lamar a chance. Is he the Lamar? No. Can he be effective NFL QB? There's no reason for be to believe otherwise until he gets that chance...

I'm a believer

Hill and Lamar are not even remotely comparable. Lamar was a first round NFL pick and had a prolific college career. Hill was an undrafted player out of BYU that was signed as a special teams player.

Hill is a 30 year old veteran that has thrown less than 20 NFL passes since he's been in the league. When Brees went down they turned to Bridgewater. When Bridgewater left they brought in Winston despite having Hill. He's a real longshot to be an NFL QB - but he's a fun guy to watch and a good weapon for an offense.

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6 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Hill and Lamar are not even remotely comparable. Lamar was a first round NFL pick and had a prolific college career. Hill was an undrafted player out of BYU that was signed as a special teams player.

Hill is a 30 year old veteran that has thrown less than 20 NFL passes since he's been in the league. When Brees went down they turned to Bridgewater. When Bridgewater left they brought in Winston despite having Hill. He's a real longshot to be an NFL QB - but he's a fun guy to watch and a good weapon for an offense.

All of this is true, but the dude DID play QB in college.  It's not like Payton's trying to convert a halfback or WR into a quarterback.

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3 minutes ago, pinequick said:

All of this is true, but the dude DID play QB in college.  It's not like Payton's trying to convert a halfback or WR into a quarterback.

Yeah, well enough not to be drafted or considered a QB in the NFL for most of his career thus far. The point was though that saying "well Lamar Jackson had some doubters therefore Hill can do it also" is not really a great logical inference. I'm not going to say there's no chance Hill can be a solid productive NFL passer, but so far it's hard to come to that conclusion.

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17 hours ago, Inspiration said:

Payton's actions have seemed to consistently contradict this over the past year: signing Bridgewater and playing him ahead of Hill went Brees went down last year - and then signing Winston this offseason. Weird situation. 

It’s really not that weird when you consider how shady Sean Payton has been with regards to telling the media anything.

This is pure speculation, but ever since bounty gate, he has not seemed to have given too much thought to what the press thinks of him, or his accuracy in giving them details. 

I don’t think he ever forgave them for all the breathless reporting of what went down.

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19 minutes ago, pinequick said:

All of this is true, but the dude DID play QB in college.  It's not like Payton's trying to convert a halfback or WR into a quarterback.

Granted, he is ahead of the team equipment guy on the QB depth chart. :shrug: 

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23 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Hill and Lamar are not even remotely comparable. Lamar was a first round NFL pick and had a prolific college career. Hill was an undrafted player out of BYU that was signed as a special teams player.

Hill is a 30 year old veteran that has thrown less than 20 NFL passes since he's been in the league. When Brees went down they turned to Bridgewater. When Bridgewater left they brought in Winston despite having Hill. He's a real longshot to be an NFL QB - but he's a fun guy to watch and a good weapon for an offense.

And the reasoning for that is that Hill hadn't prepared to play the QB. Did they use Bridgewater in the playoffs or Hill. Hill seemed to do what it takes to win the game. Bridgewater was watered down version of Brees. Have never been a fan of Bridgewater so for me it was alarming that he went ahed of Hill, but that was the coaches choice for that season. This season it's whole different ball game. And even though Hill would not set the world on fire on his first year, if he's good enough, they will use him more the second. It's all about winning that Super Bowl, and in my opinion, you can't win it with Bridgewater... at least he will not be the "it" factor in winning, then it has to bee something else. Hill has that "it", at least there's a chance for it...

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17 hours ago, Fireinside said:

Have never been a fan of Bridgewater so for me it was alarming that he went ahed of Hill, but that was the coaches choice for that season.

Is it really? Bridgewater is a QB drafted as a QB. Hill is a UDFA used in a gimmick manner. Bridgewater was a young QB who had his development stopped due to a catastrophic knee injury, so he's nowhere near a finished production and may never be. However, he's more of a QB now than Taysom Hill is.

 

His usage in the playoffs is irrelevant; Hill is the wildcat QB, Bridgewater is the backup if Brees is hurt. Bridgewater is and was the guy they trusted to run the team. Hill is the guy who they trust to force mismatches in his 10-12 wildcat snaps per game.

Edited by The Frankman
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Hoping this flies under the radar. 

Hill is TE eligible in many leagues/platforms. If Brees is out you've got to think this is Payton's chance to integrate Hill even more so into the offense whether throwing or running. God knows he'll want to minimize Winston mistakes.

In a TE wasteland, I wonder if Hill could be a sneaky pickup.

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5 hours ago, kyoun1e said:

Hoping this flies under the radar. 

Hill is TE eligible in many leagues/platforms. If Brees is out you've got to think this is Payton's chance to integrate Hill even more so into the offense whether throwing or running. God knows he'll want to minimize Winston mistakes.

In a TE wasteland, I wonder if Hill could be a sneaky pickup.

And now Brees is probably out for 2-3 weeks.

Hell...T. Hill with TE eligibility could probably do a lot better than my A. Hooper yesterday.

Chance at a rushing TD...throw a TD pass. Who knows...maybe Payton yanks Winston after a couple of picks or decides to go with some kind of split to unleash a gimmicky offense he's been thinking of for the last two years.

Hmmmm.

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Payton needs to #### or get off the pot with Hill here. Winston already threw a pick in relief of Brees and it won't get better, so it's time to give hill at least a drive where he's supposed to throw the ball like a qb to see if he can play like one.

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2 hours ago, wgoldsph said:

Payton needs to #### or get off the pot with Hill here. Winston already threw a pick in relief of Brees and it won't get better, so it's time to give hill at least a drive where he's supposed to throw the ball like a qb to see if he can play like one.

Winston hasn't thrown a pick as a member of the Saints.  He looked fine yesterday going 6 for 6 until the Niners sacked him on 2 plays in a row.  As a Saints fan, I'm over the Taysom Hill QB experiment.  He isn't an NFL QB, but he's awesome in the role he has.  He just needs to take care of the ball and quit fumbling.

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Interesting situation.

You have a veteran QB with a pedigree background with a Heisman and a BCS championship who was off an on in his starting career in the NFL.

On the other hand you have a gadget player who really didn't prove himself as a QB at the college level, and is just 6/13 throwing the ball in the NFL.

If they start Winston, they know what they might get -- a guy who can toss the ball and fit into the pocket passing offense Brees runs but may, given inaccuracies, not be able to deliver the wins like Brees.

If they start Hill, they may have to install a bit of a new offense to take advantage of his ability to run, run RPOs, and other packages the offense only knows from the playbooks as opposed to rolling out in actual games.

In my mind, going with Winston is a much surer proposition, and I don't have a high regard for Hill outside of a gadget. But can see the argument as to why they would want to give Hill a shot after having him sit behind Brees this long.

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25 minutes ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

Interesting situation.

You have a veteran QB with a pedigree background with a Heisman and a BCS championship who was off an on in his starting career in the NFL.

On the other hand you have a gadget player who really didn't prove himself as a QB at the college level, and is just 6/13 throwing the ball in the NFL.

If they start Winston, they know what they might get -- a guy who can toss the ball and fit into the pocket passing offense Brees runs but may, given inaccuracies, not be able to deliver the wins like Brees.

If they start Hill, they may have to install a bit of a new offense to take advantage of his ability to run, run RPOs, and other packages the offense only knows from the playbooks as opposed to rolling out in actual games.

In my mind, going with Winston is a much surer proposition, and I don't have a high regard for Hill outside of a gadget. But can see the argument as to why they would want to give Hill a shot after having him sit behind Brees this long.

Winston is a terrible pro qb.  Terrible.

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24 minutes ago, wgoldsph said:

Winston is a terrible pro qb.  Terrible.

Recency bias.

Winston was terrible last year, but still broke the single-season Buccaneers record for passing yards (that he himself set in 2016) and the first Bucs QB to pass for over 4,100 yards in the season. Also was the first to have consecutive 450+ passing yard games, and led the league in passing yards, completions, and attempts.

Sure, the guy threw a ton of picks. Twice as many as he had in any season prior. Sure he is nowhere near being considered elite.

But has a proven pedigree and his athletic ability are not in question. Guy holds or is tied for 11 NFL records and holds or is tied for 39 franchise records.

Now -- remind me what Taysom Hill has done again?

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