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TIME names Jamal Khashoggi and other journalists as 2018's ‘Person of the Year'


squistion

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59 minutes ago, SWC said:

twas the month of christmas and all throughout johnmx was whining about who joe threw out the stockings were hung by the chimney with care while ole mx complained to everyone everywhere when in the political forum there arose such a clatter that joe and rudnarski looked to see what was the matter and what to there wondering eyes should appear but squisition   claiming kaspernick not playing is a blackball smear i knew in a moment who would answer squissys beck now tonydead now daguru now ramblin wreck  to the top of the porch cry about not building a wall now turn on fox news lets watch lou dobbs bawl and i laughed when i saw him in spite of myself complaining about witchunts like a xenophobic elf and right as i turned off the channel he said to his fans merry christmas to all take that to the bank brohans 

:lmao:

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1 hour ago, Mr. Ham said:

There’s a world of difference between the political philosophy of Conservarism and the GOP, which has proven corrupt, amoral, racist, xenophobic, spineless and divorced from American principles and values - and ultimately unfit to lead.  

That is how you mischaracterize it and it is also the general consensus (or really the mob) of this forum.  If it were true that the GOP were all those things including being divorced from American principles, it would be impossible for them to still win elections.  But the reality is, this forum is divorced from reality and is hostile towards the majority of people who are not onboard with the absolute hatred of anything GOP.  This board is radical and spews hate.  Any attempt to moderate the hate is met with hostility.  The only reason I can see to keep this subforum open is to isolate this hate to one area of the board.  

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2 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

That is how you mischaracterize it and it is also the general consensus (or really the mob) of this forum.  If it were true that the GOP were all those things including being divorced from American principles, it would be impossible for them to still win elections.  But the reality is, this forum is divorced from reality and is hostile towards the majority of people who are not onboard with the absolute hatred of anything GOP.  This board is radical and spews hate.  Any attempt to moderate the hate is met with hostility.  The only reason I can see to keep this subforum open is to isolate this hate to one area of the board.  

Just when I thought that swc had posted the funniest thing I read today, this shows up. 

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16 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

That is how you mischaracterize it and it is also the general consensus (or really the mob) of this forum.  If it were true that the GOP were all those things including being divorced from American principles, it would be impossible for them to still win elections.  But the reality is, this forum is divorced from reality and is hostile towards the majority of people who are not onboard with the absolute hatred of anything GOP.  This board is radical and spews hate.  Any attempt to moderate the hate is met with hostility.  The only reason I can see to keep this subforum open is to isolate this hate to one area of the board.  

is someone forcing you to click on this sub-forum?  I don't get it.  if this place bothers you so much, just don't come to the PSF

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21 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

That is how you mischaracterize it and it is also the general consensus (or really the mob) of this forum.  If it were true that the GOP were all those things including being divorced from American principles, it would be impossible for them to still win elections.  But the reality is, this forum is divorced from reality and is hostile towards the majority of people who are not onboard with the absolute hatred of anything GOP.  This board is radical and spews hate.  Any attempt to moderate the hate is met with hostility.  The only reason I can see to keep this subforum open is to isolate this hate to one area of the board.  

I have to be honest , Jon, you may want to divorce yourself from this board or at least wall yourself off from this subforum as it comes across from your writings that this is a painful experience for you and it doesnt seem healthy to voluntarily invite that kind of stress on yourself.

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1 hour ago, SWC said:

twas the month of christmas and all throughout johnmx was whining about who joe threw out the stockings were hung by the chimney with care while ole mx complained to everyone everywhere when in the political forum there arose such a clatter that joe and rudnarski looked to see what was the matter and what to there wondering eyes should appear but squisition   claiming kaspernick not playing is a blackball smear i knew in a moment who would answer squissys beck now tonydead now daguru now ramblin wreck  to the top of the porch cry about not building a wall now turn on fox news lets watch lou dobbs bawl and i laughed when i saw him in spite of myself complaining about witchunts like a xenophobic elf and right as i turned off the channel he said to his fans merry christmas to all take that to the bank brohans 

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

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28 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

That is how you mischaracterize it and it is also the general consensus (or really the mob) of this forum.  If it were true that the GOP were all those things including being divorced from American principles, it would be impossible for them to still win elections.  But the reality is, this forum is divorced from reality and is hostile towards the majority of people who are not onboard with the absolute hatred of anything GOP.  This board is radical and spews hate.  Any attempt to moderate the hate is met with hostility.  The only reason I can see to keep this subforum open is to isolate this hate to one area of the board.  

I think Senor Jamon has a point, especially about the GOP vs conservatism. IIRC you’re stepping up for ButcherBoy but what I recall from him is outright nationalism and Trump boosterism not conservatism. Trump supporters don’t take that as an insult these days, and I’m just trying to be dry and objective. I’ve mentioned this before but even your own comments are embedded with rejection of Trump. You should stop hiding your light under a bush.

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25 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

That is how you mischaracterize it and it is also the general consensus (or really the mob) of this forum.  If it were true that the GOP were all those things including being divorced from American principles, it would be impossible for them to still win elections.  But the reality is, this forum is divorced from reality and is hostile towards the majority of people who are not onboard with the absolute hatred of anything GOP.  This board is radical and spews hate.  Any attempt to moderate the hate is met with hostility.  The only reason I can see to keep this subforum open is to isolate this hate to one area of the board.  

You just described the GOP perfectly.

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4 minutes ago, jomar said:

is someone forcing you to click on this sub-forum?  I don't get it.  if this place bothers you so much, just don't come to the PSF

This has been asked a dozen times but never answered. No one gets it. Why keep coming to this forum where supposedly everyone attacks you, and you think that the moderators allow it?

What is the point? It is not like there aren't other message boards where 90% of the posters share his political views.

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24 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

That is how you mischaracterize it and it is also the general consensus (or really the mob) of this forum.  If it were true that the GOP were all those things including being divorced from American principles, it would be impossible for them to still win elections.  But the reality is, this forum is divorced from reality and is hostile towards the majority of people who are not onboard with the absolute hatred of anything GOP.  This board is radical and spews hate.  Any attempt to moderate the hate is met with hostility.  The only reason I can see to keep this subforum open is to isolate this hate to one area of the board.  

The current GOP is supporting such things though Jon.  Look at Hatch yesterday and his replies about possible crimes by Trump.

The GOP is currently not conservative...and nobody is wanting all conservatives gone.  Id love more actual conservatives to post here.  Its pretty plain to see most actual conservatives likely wouldn't support what Trump really is though.

The forum is not divorced from reality...that is a pretty broad brush you are using about people that just don't agree with you.  You are also hostile to those that don't agree with you.

And the current GOP...deserves the hate they are getting and they are getting it from those who have been traditionally conservative on here.

Moderate the hate is not met with hostility...that is up to the moderators though and not your false and very biased opinions of how to moderate things.

You spread as much hate and hostility as you complain about..which is why your complaints ring hollow.

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I'm trying to figure out what this "reality" is that we're supposedly not getting. That there's some kind of Silent Majority (hey, that's a great name, somebody really should have used that in a campaign) out there who believes that everything is really going well, that this administration is functioning effectively, that our standing around the globe remains high, that American democracy is considered the best and most inclusive in the world? Yeah, I don't think that's happening. Jon must mean something else. Maybe he could tell us exactly what he means.

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19 minutes ago, squistion said:

This has been asked a dozen times but never answered. No one gets it. Why keep coming to this forum where supposedly everyone attacks you, and you think that the moderators allow it?

What is the point? It is not like there aren't other message boards where 90% of the posters share his political views.

Well come on..you keep going in the Kappy thread despite getting abused.

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1 minute ago, Da Guru said:

Well come on..you keep going in the Kappy thread despite getting abused.

Yes, since page 1, but you don't see me whining every single day about how mean people are to me in that thread or in this forum with the implicit permission of the mods.

I left the FFT Geek Club forum years ago because I found that 95% of the posters at that time were racists and homophobes and the mods were cool with it. There was just one other liberal there, Torrid Joe, and he left too because I imagine he also got tired of being called gay slurs by people with handles like "I Hate Muslim!" Hopefully that has changed but I don't intend to go back and find out.

Unless he has masochistic tendencies there is no reason to keep returning to this forum if he hates it so much.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, squistion said:

Yes, since page 1, but you don't see me whining every single day about how mean people are to me in that thread or in this forum with the implicit permission of the mods.

We don't see you do it because you do it via the report button. 

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3 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Is the GOP winning a ton of elections of which I am unaware?  :oldunsure: 

They win a lot in Michigan because the State is gerrymandered. The majority of Michiganders vote Democrat by a significant margin but GOP always controls the House and Senate. Then when they lose important executive positions, the legislators change the rules so the Democrats have less power. I mean nothing screams democracy like creating a GOP appointed board to outrank the State School Board that the citizens elected. Or changing a proposal to making voting easier that 67% of Michigan voters just approved. 

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36 minutes ago, squistion said:

Yes, since page 1, but you don't see me whining every single day about how mean people are to me in that thread or in this forum with the implicit permission of the mods.

I left the FFT Geek Club forum years ago because I found that 95% of the posters at that time were racists and homophobes and the mods were cool with it. There was just one other liberal there, Torrid Joe, and he left too because I imagine he also got tired of being called gay slurs by people with handles like "I Hate Muslim!" Hopefully that has changed but I don't intend to go back and find out.

Unless he has masochistic tendencies there is no reason to keep returning to this forum if he hates it so much.

 

 

All I am saying anyone can come and go as they please. The PSF does lean 90% one way so when jon posts anything all the responses are 90% against what he says.  I don`t want to read the same stuff over and over again so it is good to have other thoughts.  if everyone thinks the same someone is not thinking.

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10 minutes ago, Da Guru said:

All I am saying anyone can come and go as they please. The PSF does lean 90% one way so when jon posts anything all the responses are 90% against what he says.  I don`t want to read the same stuff over and over again so it is good to have other thoughts.  if everyone thinks the same someone is not thinking.

the PSF only leans 90% one way with regards to Trump, NOT with regards to where the "middle" used to be before 2016.

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6 minutes ago, Da Guru said:

All I am saying anyone can come and go as they please. The PSF does lean 90% one way so when jon posts anything all the responses are 90% against what he says.  I don`t want to read the same stuff over and over again so it is good to have other thoughts.  if everyone thinks the same someone is not thinking.

I don't want to read the same stuff over and over again either unless it is about Kaep. (Just kidding :hophead:)

I do like to see intelligent input from those with contrary views. Sadly I am not sure who here is representing the pro-Trump point of view in that respect, but I digress.

Anyway, by the same token, I don't want to see this constant crying about how the liberal meanies are picking on someone they don't agree with. If it bothered me that much, I would either quit whining and hope I could make compelling arguments that change people's minds, or I would find another forum.

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1 hour ago, squistion said:

This has been asked a dozen times but never answered. No one gets it. Why keep coming to this forum where supposedly everyone attacks you, and you think that the moderators allow it?

What is the point? It is not like there aren't other message boards where 90% of the posters share his political views.

Maybe he’s like the Bill Murray character from Little Shop of Horrors? 

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Back to thread topic:

To recap for those who may have missed the particulars:

Time magazine's person of the year are journalists who were murdered imprisoned, and harassed for doing their job. Four journalists and one newspaper "are representative of a broader fight by countless others around the world."

- Jamal Kashoggi

- Capital Gazette staff

- Wa Lone and Kyaw Soe Oo

- Maria Ressa

https://www.today.com/news/time-person-year-2018-guardians-war-truth-t144911

 

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1 minute ago, squistion said:

Back to thread topic:

To recap those who may have missed the particulars:

Time magazine's person of the year are journalists who were murdered imprisoned, and harassed for doing their job. Four journalists and one newspaper "are representative of a broader fight by countless others around the world."

- Jamal Kashoggi

- Capital Gazette staff

- Wa Lone and Kyaw Soe Oo

- Maria Ressa

https://www.today.com/news/time-person-year-2018-guardians-war-truth-t144911

 

It’s interesting, and I feel terrible for those journalists, but it seems to me that this award is changing from “who was the most impactful person last year” to “whom do we most admire?” 

I don’t see how anyone can argue legitimately that these journalists had the most impact of any living persons in 2018. 

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4 minutes ago, timschochet said:

It’s interesting, and I feel terrible for those journalists, but it seems to me that this award is changing from “who was the most impactful person last year” to “whom do we most admire?” 

I don’t see how anyone can argue legitimately that these journalists had the most impact of any living persons in 2018. 

I dunno, Mother Teresa was named the 2003 Person of the Year and I doubt it was because she the most impactful person that year, but she certainly was among the most admired.

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1 hour ago, Ilov80s said:

They win a lot in Michigan because the State is gerrymandered. The majority of Michiganders vote Democrat by a significant margin but GOP always controls the House and Senate. Then when they lose important executive positions, the legislators change the rules so the Democrats have less power. I mean nothing screams democracy like creating a GOP appointed board to outrank the State School Board that the citizens elected. Or changing a proposal to making voting easier that 67% of Michigan voters just approved. 

I get this happens, but I didn't get the sense that was what was meant above.  On a macro level, there were a #### ton of seats lost to the Dems in the House and a large number of governorships.  And I know there are no moral victories, but given the reasons you list right here, that magnifies those wins because of the difficulty.  Throw on top of the actual victories, all the close races that have rarely been close historically and that paints a very different picture than what is claimed above.

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22 minutes ago, timschochet said:

It’s interesting, and I feel terrible for those journalists, but it seems to me that this award is changing from “who was the most impactful person last year” to “whom do we most admire?” 

I don’t see how anyone can argue legitimately that these journalists had the most impact of any living persons in 2018. 

Khashoggi alone brought the Republican and Democrat Congress together on an issue.  That's pretty amazing this year.

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59 minutes ago, Da Guru said:

All I am saying anyone can come and go as they please. The PSF does lean 90% one way so when jon posts anything all the responses are 90% against what he says.  I don`t want to read the same stuff over and over again so it is good to have other thoughts.  if everyone thinks the same someone is not thinking.

Can you explain the "way" it leans please?  If you mean anything other than "anti-Trump" which encompasses a #### ton of conservatives along with the liberals, then I'd politely request you show your work.  If you simply mean anti-Trump, I'd agree with your statement.  

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7 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

Khashoggi alone brought the Republican and Democrat Congress together on an issue.  That's pretty amazing this year.

That’s a point. But even if one accepts it, it leads to another criticism- that the award is Americancentric. 

And if so, there’s nothing wrong with that: the creator of Time Magazine, Henry Luce would have been proud of having the award in terms of how it affects the USA. But then they should say that. 

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3 hours ago, jon_mx said:

That is how you mischaracterize it and it is also the general consensus (or really the mob) of this forum.  If it were true that the GOP were all those things including being divorced from American principles, it would be impossible for them to still win elections.  But the reality is, this forum is divorced from reality and is hostile towards the majority of people who are not onboard with the absolute hatred of anything GOP.  This board is radical and spews hate.  Any attempt to moderate the hate is met with hostility.  The only reason I can see to keep this subforum open is to isolate this hate to one area of the board.  

 Now who can argue with that? I think we're all indebted to jon mx for clearly stating what needed to be said. I'm particulary glad that these lovely children were here today to hear that speech. Not only was it authentic messageboard gibberish, it expressed a courage little seen in this day and age.

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17 minutes ago, timschochet said:

That’s a point. But even if one accepts it, it leads to another criticism- that the award is Americancentric. 

And if so, there’s nothing wrong with that: the creator of Time Magazine, Henry Luce would have been proud of having the award in terms of how it affects the USA. But then they should say that. 

Tim you seem to be nit-picking here.

One would expect that an American based magazine would view such an award through the prism that they view it, such as the country that they are based in.

By the same token, I would expect that if The Guardian UK or Der Spiegel had similar awards it would be viewed from the UK or German perspective, respectively.

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3 hours ago, jon_mx said:

That is how you mischaracterize it and it is also the general consensus (or really the mob) of this forum.  If it were true that the GOP were all those things including being divorced from American principles, it would be impossible for them to still win elections.  But the reality is, this forum is divorced from reality and is hostile towards the majority of people who are not onboard with the absolute hatred of anything GOP.  This board is radical and spews hate.  Any attempt to moderate the hate is met with hostility.  The only reason I can see to keep this subforum open is to isolate this hate to one area of the board.  

 

I'm conservative and feel perfectly at home on this board. But that's because I am actual conservative and believe in conservative principles and American values, not the non-sense that the GOP is peddling. Mr. Ham's characterization seems to be spot on. The current manifestation of the GOP is not conservative. But they are worthy of hatred from any American from any side of the political spectrum who actually cares about our country. 

 

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23 minutes ago, turnerj0 said:

 

I'm conservative and feel perfectly at home on this board. But that's because I am actual conservative and believe in conservative principles and American values, not the non-sense that the GOP is peddling. Mr. Ham's characterization seems to be spot on. The current manifestation of the GOP is not conservative. But they are worthy of hatred from any American from any side of the political spectrum who actually cares about our country. 

 

Certainly Trump is more populist than conservative.  But I am not onboard with hating anyone who supports Trump and saying that hate American values and are bigots.  Trump appeals to core American values because we have moved from treating minorities as equals to now giving them special rights and protections.  We are creating a politically correct society where the minority or female must be given the benefit of the doubt or even the upper hand.  This board scoffs at the idea of reverse racism, but a lot of the underclass whites blame affirmative action and immigration for their problems.  Much of it is grossly exaggerated, but it still has some basis in truth.  Both sides are guilty of playing the races against one another.  I despise the tactics of the left as much as I do the tactics of Trump.  I firmly do not believe Trump voters deserve the scorn and ridicule that they get from the left.  I see no reason that they must be belittled and de-humanized.  I know many Trump voters and they are truly decent people and if you read this board they are monsters.

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5 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

Certainly Trump is more populist than conservative.  But I am not onboard with hating anyone who supports Trump and saying that hate American values and are bigots.  Trump appeals to core American values because we have moved from treating minorities as equals to now giving them special rights and protections.  We are creating a politically correct society where the minority or female must be given the benefit of the doubt or even the upper hand.  This board scoffs at the idea of reverse racism, but a lot of the underclass whites blame affirmative action and immigration for their problems.  Much of it is grossly exaggerated, but it still has some basis in truth.  Both sides are guilty of playing the races against one another.  I despise the tactics of the left as much as I do the tactics of Trump.  I firmly do not believe Trump voters deserve the scorn and ridicule that they get from the left.  I see no reason that they must be belittled and de-humanized.  I know many Trump voters and they are truly decent people and if you read this board they are monsters.

I never said anything about race. Interesting that Trump supporters project just like their fearless leader. There are a number of reasons that Trump is deserving of hatred and opposition beyond his obvious bigotry. First and foremost is his description of the free press as the "enemy of the people". Anyone who has heard Trump say that or seen him post it in a Tweet and takes any position beside complete opposition should be condemned as being fundamentally anti-American. 

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10 minutes ago, OrtonToOlsen said:

I am totally onboard with this.  

And this statement has bigoted overtones in my opinion.

Quote

Trump appeals to core American values because we have moved from treating minorities as equals to now giving them special rights and protections. 

A core American value is not to discriminate against a minority because of their race, religion or sexual orientation.

It is the anti-discrimination laws that level the playing field so that these minority groups are treated as equals and get an equal shot at employment and housing opportunities. It is not giving them "special rights" unless you believe that laws ending segregation in the south gave black people special rights.

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34 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

 Trump appeals to core American values because we have moved from treating minorities as equals to now giving them special rights and protections.  

Just a point of order here - we have only gotten as far as we have treating minorities as equals by doing the things you're describing as special rights and protections.

 

Also, I'm having a really tough time coming up with categories of "special rights and protections for minorities."  Any thoughts?

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1 minute ago, The Commish said:

Yeah....this country has NEVER treated minorities as equal to white people....NEVER.  They may  have treated minorities as equal to other minorities.  But whoopty ####### doo is what I say to that.

when you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression

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28 minutes ago, turnerj0 said:

I never said anything about race. Interesting that Trump supporters project just like their fearless leader. There are a number of reasons that Trump is deserving of hatred and opposition beyond his obvious bigotry. First and foremost is his description of the free press as the "enemy of the people". Anyone who has heard Trump say that or seen him post it in a Tweet and takes any position beside complete opposition should be condemned as being fundamentally anti-American. 

I was talking about this board in general and not you in particular.

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2 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Yeah....this country has NEVER treated minorities as equal to white people....NEVER.  They may  have treated minorities as equal to other minorities.  But whoopty ####### doo is what I say to that.

By "this country", I assume you mean the people who live in this country? Or do you also mean the laws of the country?

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9 minutes ago, squistion said:

And this statement has bigoted overtones in my opinion.

A core American value is not to discriminate against a minority because of their race, religion or sexual orientation.

It is the anti-discrimination laws that level the playing field so that these minority groups are treated as equals and get an equal shot at employment and housing opportunities. It is not giving them "special rights" unless you believe that laws ending segregation in the south gave black people special rights.

You are a real pro at constructing the ole strawmen.

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30 minutes ago, turnerj0 said:

I never said anything about race. Interesting that Trump supporters project just like their fearless leader. There are a number of reasons that Trump is deserving of hatred and opposition beyond his obvious bigotry. First and foremost is his description of the free press as the "enemy of the people". Anyone who has heard Trump say that or seen him post it in a Tweet and takes any position beside complete opposition should be condemned as being fundamentally anti-American. 

Oh I see your confusion. Jon isn't a Trump supporter. He voted for Gary Johnson.

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2 minutes ago, dgreen said:

By "this country", I assume you mean the people who live in this country? Or do you also mean the laws of the country?

Both actually.  There is a segment of this population who certainly fits this bill and it's pretty clear that also reflected in some of our laws.

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6 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

You are a real pro at constructing the ole strawmen.

Is this a Straw Man too? I ask because Henry pretty much made the same points that I did.

9 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

Just a point of order here - we have only gotten as far as we have treating minorities as equals by doing the things you're describing as special rights and protections.

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