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Dynasty & Redraft: RB David Montgomery, Bears


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While week 1 overreactions are standard, I also think that people who are outraged about Montgomery's share are not appreciating the following: Cohen will always drain some looks as he is a prov

potential top rb in rookie drafts. Hoping KC decides to start over at rb and take him

Reality is: - The article you posted is from August 1, before any preseason games. - Davis was paid minimal money to come to Chicago.  - The Bears had no other meaningful RB besides Coh

12 minutes ago, Truebluey said:

If Mike Davis wasn't there I'd be with you on the Monty train. 

But you can't ignore reality. 

https://bearswire.usatoday.com/2019/08/01/bears-rb-mike-davis-ready-to-prove-people-wrong/

Reality is:

- The article you posted is from August 1, before any preseason games.

- Davis was paid minimal money to come to Chicago. 

- The Bears had no other meaningful RB besides Cohen on the roster when they signed him.

- Bears traded UP for Montgomery. They LOVE Montgomery.

- Bears envision Davis in the Benny Cunningham role, which is almost nothing.

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7 minutes ago, cloppbeast said:

When?

Coach Matt Nagy admitted he "probably gave Tarik Cohen a little bit too much" work last season.

"We moved [Cohen] around a lot last year, and I do feel like there was a time — probably later in the season — where we probably gave him a little bit too much," Nagy said Tuesday. "And when you mentally drain them, it pulls them back physically." Cohen then only touched the ball four times in the playoff loss to the Eagles. Cohen is a legit playmaker, but it's evident the Bears want to dial back his workload after drafting David Montgomery, signing "space" player Cordarrelle Patterson and do-it-all RB Mike Davis, and having Anthony Miller returning to health. That's on top of already having Allen Robinson, Taylor Gabriel, and Trey Burton. There's just no way this offense can support all of these players. Cohen's RB2/3 ADP is too elevated for our taste.

SOURCE: Chicago Sun-Times

Aug 21, 2019, 9:35 AM ET

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5 minutes ago, cloppbeast said:

When?

I think there was a blurb just a week ago where he said something to that effect. It may have been twisted a bit. I think he was talking about not putting as much on Cohen's plate from a playbook standpoint not necessarily touches. 

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2 minutes ago, barackdhouse said:

I think there was a blurb just a week ago where he said something to that effect. It may have been twisted a bit. I think he was talking about not putting as much on Cohen's plate from a playbook standpoint not necessarily touches. 

Yeah, this quote was taken out of context. I didn't know if @Tanner9919 referred to something else.

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1 hour ago, barackdhouse said:

I think there was a blurb just a week ago where he said something to that effect. It may have been twisted a bit. I think he was talking about not putting as much on Cohen's plate from a playbook standpoint not necessarily touches. 

This statement "And when you mentally drain them, it pulls them back physically" says exactly that, yet people run with the narrative they want to believe.

That's not to say Cohen and Montgomery can't co-exist, but the notion that Cohen who is a dynamic playmaker, and only touched the ball 170 times last season, should see less work seems backwards. Montgomery should see a heavy workload for sure but Cohen should continue to see a lot of passing game work.

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I have very little worry when it comes to Montgomery.  If Howard can put up good fantasy numbers with Cohen and Cunningham there then Montgomery should be able to do very well.  I see no reason why he can't have 1300 to 1500 total yards with 30 to 40 receptions and around 8 total TDs.

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1 hour ago, Dr. Octopus said:

This statement "And when you mentally drain them, it pulls them back physically" says exactly that, yet people run with the narrative they want to believe.

That's not to say Cohen and Montgomery can't co-exist, but the notion that Cohen who is a dynamic playmaker, and only touched the ball 170 times last season, should see less work seems backwards. Montgomery should see a heavy workload for sure but Cohen should continue to see a lot of passing game work.

Fair, and yet I was reading exactly this sort of statement about Drake going into last season.

Coaches often don’t do what seems blatantly obvious to the rest of us.

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I mentioned the Cohen usage aspect in the Bears homer thread.  IMO, the media took Nagy’s statement out of context and assumed it meant a reduced role for Cohen this season.  That’s not going to be the case.  Cohen is still a big part of their increasingly-diversified offense and has had plenty of time to increase his absorption of the playbook, just like everyone else in year two of the offense.

Plodder Howard had 200+ touches last season and since Monty is much more versatile (i.e., he can actually catch), he does not need to come off the field in passing situations.  It’s been assumed that Howard was dealt because opposing defenses knew tendencies with Howard, which is completely logical.

At the end of the day, Monty is going to be more effective than Howard.  He breaks ankles and pushes piles.  Cohen can co-exist with Monty for filling the explosive role a la Tyreek Hill and will steal a few carries here and there, but it’s nothing to worry about.

Edited by -X-
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Just now, -X- said:

I mentioned the Cohen usage aspect in the Bears homer thread.  IMO, the media took Nagy’s statement out of context and assumed it meant a reduced role for Cohen this season.  That’s not going to be the case.  Cohen is still a big part of their increasingly-diversified offense and has had plenty of time to increase his absorption of the playbook, just like everyone else on offense.

Plodder Howard had 200+ touches last season and since Monty is much more versatile (i.e., he can actually catch), he does not need to come off the field in passing situations.  It’s been assumed that Howard was dealt because opposing defenses knew tendencies with Howard, which is completely logical.

At the end of the day, Monty is going to be more effective than Howard.  He breaks ankles and pushes piles.  Cohen can co-exist with Monty for filling the explosive role a la Tyreek Hill and will steal a few carries here and there, but it’s nothing to worry about.

Completely agree with all of this. 

Cohen is a gadget guy - and a good one - but if they become predictable he’s not going to be effective. 

With both backs on the field the Bears will be a nightmare to defend since Trubisky can dump off to either, they can run reverses or screens, & either back could run the ball. 

I think there is a little truth to keeping Cohen healthy mentally & physically, but we’re not talking about a massive reduction. Just a “less is more” deal. 

And with that defense, there will be plenty of carries to go around. 

Even just taking Howard’s carries - he had 250 carries of 3.7 ypc. Dude was a plodder & still had enough volume to amass 935 yards. 

Montgomery lacks top end speed, but he has make-you-miss wiggle - and has displayed it consistently in practice against the Bears D, which is impressive. Since we can assume most of the defenses aren’t as good as the one he practices against, yeah. Could be an absolute monster. 

Lunchbox mentality too, from all accounts. Shows up to work, straps it on & gets to it. 

Say he averages 4.5 YPC & gets those same 250 carries. That’s 1125 yards on the ground. Kick in another 25/300 in the receiving game + GL? 

That feels like a pretty realistic season, given good health. 

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On 8/29/2019 at 10:35 AM, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Cohen is a gadget guy - and a good one - but if they become predictable he’s not going to be effective. 

Don't forget that they also signed Cordarrelle Patterson in the offseason. He think he might be used in some of the "gadget" plays  as well and might be a better receiver.   Nagy loves  his gadget plays so I expect to see them on the field at the same time as well. I expect to see them try a couple of double reverses this season. 

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4 minutes ago, yoman said:

Don't forget that they also signed Cordarrelle Patterson in the offseason. He think he might be used in some of the "gadget" plays  as well and might be a better receiver.   Nagy loves  his gadget plays so I expect to see them on the field at the same time as well. I expect to see them try a couple of double reverses this season. 

Maybe. The actual “double reverse” is super rare, and generally unsuccessful since it’s such a slow developing play. 99% of the tile the announcers say “double reverse” it’s just a reverse, which is a pet peeve of mine. I think I’ve seen one actual “double reverse” in 30+ years. 

And Patterson really isn’t that good at anything, so I’m not sure how much stock I’d put into his impacting the RBs roles. Maybe a trick play here or there. Hopefully not to disastrous results. 

With that defense there should be plenty of carries to go around. 

The exciting thing is that we don’t have to wait very long to find out since kickoff is in about 49 hours. :pickle:

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58 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Maybe. The actual “double reverse” is super rare, and generally unsuccessful since it’s such a slow developing play. 99% of the tile the announcers say “double reverse” it’s just a reverse, which is a pet peeve of mine. I think I’ve seen one actual “double reverse” in 30+ years. 

I guess my sarcasm didn't come through (Just shocked they got Patterson with Cohen already on the roster).  I expect Nagy to try the hidden ball trick,  the fumblerooski and of course  the drop kick - there's no was Mack would have missed that drop kick from 39 yards against the Eagles. 

BTW - the double reverse which will be unstoppable - Montgomery to Patterson to Cohen = TD every time :)  

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Quote

 I expect Nagy to try the hidden ball trick,  the fumblerooski and of course  the drop kick - there's no was Mack would have missed that drop kick from 39 yards against the Eagles. 

BTW - the double reverse which will be unstoppable - Montgomery to Patterson to Cohen = TD every time :)  

:lol: 

Read it loud & clear that time. Lol

Just saw “double reverse” & got kinda triggered. My bad! 

True story - I got to see a hidden ball trick live at a Giants game once. JT Snow pulled it off brilliantly. 

Best part was it was against the dodgers, 2nd best part was that their smug pitcher Perez was acting all cocky after he got on base. 

Quote

On June 26, 1999, Snow tagged out Los Angeles Dodgers pitcher Carlos Pérez using the "hidden ball trick", the last successful execution of the play in the 20th century.

Then that happened & the place erupted. 

Super rare. Even more than the double reverse. ;) 

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy
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5 hours ago, yoman said:

Don't forget that they also signed Cordarrelle Patterson in the offseason. He think he might be used in some of the "gadget" plays  as well and might be a better receiver.   Nagy loves  his gadget plays so I expect to see them on the field at the same time as well. I expect to see them try a couple of double reverses this season. 

Cohen is not "gadget guy."  Anyone who thinking that didn't watch the Bears or pay attention to how he was used last year. 

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7 minutes ago, flapgreen said:

Cohen is not "gadget guy."  Anyone who thinking that didn't watch the Bears or pay attention to how he was used last year. 

That was last year. And they wouldn’t have used him like that if Howard was competent.  :whistle:

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40 minutes ago, flapgreen said:

Cohen is not "gadget guy."  Anyone who thinking that didn't watch the Bears or pay attention to how he was used last year. 

Cohen is definitely a constraint player. Like Patterson.

But feel free to tell me how this observation is incorrect and in doing so make sure you define what Cohen actually is.

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A play does not have to be unconventional to be a constraint play.

A screen is a constraint play.

These plays a meant to keep the defense honest and to make them pay for trying to cheat against more staple plays, such as the inside zone.

You notice in those highlights that most of them are happening against very bad defenses like Tampa Bay.

If you look at Cohens game logs you see what a up and down player he is and that his big games happen against poor defenses. 

If how Cohen was winning was conventional and sustainable then the Bears would not have needed to draft Montgomery in the first place and they could have just benched Howard for Cohen all season.

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6 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:

A play does not have to be unconventional to be a constraint play.

A screen is a constraint play.

These plays a meant to keep the defense honest and to make them pay for trying to cheat against more staple plays, such as the inside zone.

You notice in those highlights that most of them are happening against very bad defenses like Tampa Bay.

If you look at Cohens game logs you see what a up and down player he is and that his big games happen against poor defenses. 

If how Cohen was winning was conventional and sustainable then the Bears would not have needed to draft Montgomery in the first place and they could have just benched Howard for Cohen all season.

Different roles.  I think you are confusing how they use the RBs.  Cohen and Montgomery will both play.  Both will be more interchangeable than Howard was last year. Cohen (nor Montgomery) will play the workhorse.  Not how the offense is designed IMO.  

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3 minutes ago, Hairy Snowman said:

Different roles.  I think you are confusing how they use the RBs.  Cohen and Montgomery will both play.  Both will be more interchangeable than Howard was last year. Cohen (nor Montgomery) will play the workhorse.  Not how the offense is designed IMO.  

Sure Cohen will be the workhorse and Mongomery will be change of pace Harry.

Come on.

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Just now, Biabreakable said:

Sure Cohen will be the workhorse and Mongomery will be change of pace Harry.

Come on.

Cohen's role isn't going to change.  Montgomery will pick up Howards inside/GL carries and give the offense a little more flexibility in formations.  They are both going to have value if the offense is working.  I don't see Montgomery as a workhorse in his role when they are paying Davis millions also for a couple years.  Davis, not Cohen, is who is competing for Montgomery's touches. 

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1 minute ago, Hairy Snowman said:

Cohen's role isn't going to change.  Montgomery will pick up Howards inside/GL carries and give the offense a little more flexibility in formations.  They are both going to have value if the offense is working.  I don't see Montgomery as a workhorse in his role when they are paying Davis millions also for a couple years.  Davis, not Cohen, is who is competing for Montgomery's touches. 

I read your previous statement wrong. I thought you said Cohen not Mongomery will be the workhorse. Rather than neither would be the workhorse.

My mistake.

I am done arguing with people over this stuff. We will see first hand soon enough. Believe what you want.

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1 minute ago, Biabreakable said:

I read your previous statement wrong. I thought you said Cohen not Mongomery will be the workhorse. Rather than neither would be the workhorse.

My mistake.

I am done arguing with people over this stuff. We will see first hand soon enough. Believe what you want.

I am invested in Montgomery also.  I am simply saying that my expectations are tempered for this season.  I don't think that keeping him in a "Zeke" role would help the offense.  He doesn't have the speed.  But we will see.  Never know until they hit the field. 

Also, not arguing.  I don't argue.  I discuss. 

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21 minutes ago, Hairy Snowman said:

Different roles.  I think you are confusing how they use the RBs.  Cohen and Montgomery will both play.  Both will be more interchangeable than Howard was last year. Cohen (nor Montgomery) will play the workhorse.  Not how the offense is designed IMO.  

The Bears have basically said they envision a workhorse 3-down role for Montgomery with Davis a breather back & Cohen a COP. Based on everything I’ve read, especially in that “Bears are in love with Montgomery” article, that’s my take-away. Maybe it was all coachspeak. :shrug:

I don’t think he’ll be a Zeke, because only Zeke is Zeke. 

But he’s a talented back who looks the part of a feature back. 

For all Cohen’s talent, speed & wiggle, he’s not a guy you want running between the tackles. Notice how on that highlight reel almost every play gets him into space? Stretch plays, toss sweeps, short receptions - he’s not breaking through any holes or breaking any contact. IIRC Cohen isn’t a yards after contact kind of player. 

And even on those highlight plays, he’s avoiding contact by stepping out of bounds on every one.  Maybe that’s good for him to stay healthy, but he looks like a scat back. It’s not an insult - he is what he is. He’s good at it. But he’s not suited to a feature role, at least not for what the Bears want to do.  That’s why they ran Howard out there for his 3.x YPC 250 times.

Maybe nothing changes with Cohen’s role. But since reportedly Montgomery is an able receiver, it could eat into Cohen’s touches a bit. I also wouldn’t expect to see Cohen in GL formations much either. 

I could envision scenarios where they're both in the backfield, which will be very difficult for opposing defenses. 

Can’t wait to see what’s what tomorrow! 

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1 minute ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

The Bears have basically said they envision a workhorse 3-down role for Montgomery with Davis a breather back & Cohen a COP. Based on everything I’ve read, especially in that “Bears are in love with Montgomery” article, that’s my take-away. Maybe it was all coachspeak. :shrug:

I don’t think he’ll be a Zeke, because only Zeke is Zeke. 

But he’s a talented back who looks the part of a feature back. 

For all Cohen’s talent, speed & wiggle, he’s not a guy you want running between the tackles. Notice how on that highlight reel almost every play gets him into space? Stretch plays, toss sweeps, short receptions - he’s not breaking through any holes or breaking any contact. IIRC Cohen isn’t a yards after contact kind of player. 

And even on those highlight plays, he’s avoiding contact by stepping out of bounds on every one.  Maybe that’s good for him to stay healthy, but he looks like a scat back. It’s not an insult - he is what he is. He’s good at it. But he’s not suited to a feature role, at least not for what the Bears want to do.  That’s why they ran Howard out there for his 3.x YPC 250 times.

Maybe nothing changes with Cohen’s role. But since reportedly Montgomery is an able receiver, it could eat into Cohen’s touches a bit. I also wouldn’t expect to see Cohen in GL formations much either. 

I could envision scenarios where they're both in the backfield, which will be very difficult for opposing defenses. 

Can’t wait to see what’s what tomorrow! 

Cohen is in Tyreek Hills "role".  Montgomery is in the "Jamaal Charles" role.  No reason both can't see the ball.  I don't think I am disagreeing with much except that I think Montgomery is still a rookie and every RB in the NFL needs to be spelled.  Or else they break down fast. Just my opinion.  

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