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Go Fund Me for the Wall ......


Getzlaf15

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Some reading for the wall people

I'm guessing you won't read it or respond to it anyway and instead will just continue repeating the same lines over and over again so here are some key learnings:

Everyone agrees that we need to keep our border safe and secure; President Trump does not hold a monopoly on that sentiment.  Over the last two years, Congress has invested more than $3 billion for that purpose.  It is the largest infusion of border security funding in recent history.  We have directed U.S. Customs and Border Protection to acquire new technologies proven to work on the border and at our ports of entry, purchase new air and marine assets, and hire additional personnel.  This approach has resulted in the acquisition of integrated fixed towers on the border, remote video surveillance systems, enforcement helicopters and other aircraft, and upgrades to existing unmanned aerial systems.  For the ports of entry, where the large majority of illicit narcotics and other contraband enter, we have significantly increased funding for non-intrusive inspection equipment and hired over 360 new Customs Officers. 

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Over the last two years, Congress has provided nearly $1.7 billion to build or replace fencing on the southern border, but the Administration has hardly spent any of that money, and the projects it has undertaken have ballooned in cost.  So far, only six percent of those funds have been spent.  Six.  And we have recently learned that one project in the Rio Grande Valley that was supposed to cost $445 million, will now cost the American taxpayers nearly $787 million — that’s a 77 percent cost overrun, at a price tag of $31.5 million per mile. 

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The President’s own budget request to Congress for Fiscal Year 2019 was $1.6 billion for his wall, not $5 billion.  I opposed this request when he made it this spring.  I did not and still do not want to appropriate another dime to advance a nebulous and ineffective agenda that I fundamentally oppose.  But our system of divided government requires compromise in order to function, and the Senate Appropriations Committee came up with a bipartisan compromise to meet the President’s $1.6 billion request, with restrictions on where the money could be used, and what type of barriers could be built, such as bollard fencing, but no 30-foot concrete wall.  But instead of taking “yes” and declaring victory, the President has repeatedly moved the goalposts and redefined victory.  So much for the Art of the Deal. 

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34 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

the GOP is only 1/2 the Govt +.- .............. what great plan did the Democrats construct? You've read their quotes, they have a plan, right ?

They put forward the most sweeping border security and immigration reform bill we will probably ever see, passed it in the Senate with bipartisan support, and the GOP Speaker wouldn’t even bring it to a vote in the House. Now you want to blame them for not acting? 

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What exactly is the GOP offering now? I mean, am I taking crazy pills? The Democrats crafted a sweeping reform bill on border security and immigration, the GOP stonewalled it, and now they’re saying “you’ve brought nothing to the negotiation table, you want open borders.”

Still baffling what people will believe. Just weird. 

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blame that GOP speaker and yes, blame those Republican's and Democrats who didn't support/vote .... blame Obama for not shutting the Govt down and insisting that 2013 bill be either passed or compromised ..... blame is aplenty in our Govt on both sides

I'd have to read up on why that 2013 was shot down ....... I simply don't know off the top of my head

 

 

 

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why have the Democrats changed so much in just 5 years on what they were willing to give then vs what they're willing to give now ?

some quick googling .... Republican's didn't want to give amnesty type concessions  for already here illegally people when they refused the 2013 bill - is that what the core reason was  ?

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10 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

blame that GOP speaker and yes, blame those Republican's and Democrats who didn't support/vote .... blame Obama for not shutting the Govt down and insisting that 2013 bill be either passed or compromised ..... blame is aplenty in our Govt on both sides

I'd have to read up on why that 2013 was shot down ....... I simply don't know off the top of my head

 

 

 

 Because from 2011-2016 one main focus of the GOP was to make sure Obama and the Democrats couldn’t pass anything.

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3 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

why have the Democrats changed so much in just 5 years on what they were willing to give then vs what they're willing to give now ?

some quick googling .... Republican's didn't want to give amnesty type concessions  for already here illegally people when they refused the 2013 bill - is that what the core reason was  ?

If the GOP offered to pass Schumer’s bill from 2013, I think the Democrats would do that in a heartbeat. 

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1 hour ago, The General said:

There already was a plan. Both sides agreed to it. Trump changed his mind. His problem to fix, not the Dems job to put together his pet project.

Exactly.  He was elected President not King. As a President and not a King he might find he won't always get what he wants unless he is willing to compromise.  Throwing a fit and shutting down the government  shouldn't be rewarded. 

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3 minutes ago, Mile High said:

Exactly.  He was elected President not King. As a President and not a King he might find he won't always get what he wants unless he is willing to compromise.  Throwing a fit and shutting down the government  shouldn't be rewarded. 

It's almost as if he's playing political games with border security :GASP:

 

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1 hour ago, Henry Ford said:

 Because from 2011-2016 one main focus of the GOP was to make sure Obama and the Democrats couldn’t pass anything.

Despite my opposition to Trump and the Wall I do think "part" of the reason the Democrats don't want to give in on the wall it would give Trump a victory at least  to partially say he fulfilled a campaign promise to build the wall. Of course IMO he wouldn't be since Mexico isn't paying for it.

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8 minutes ago, lazyike said:

Despite my opposition to Trump I do think "part" of the reason the Democrats don't want to give in on the wall it would give Trump a victory at least  to partially say he fulfilled a campaign promise to build the wall. Of course IMO he wouldn't be since Mexico isn't paying for it.

They gave him a deal that would have allowed him to say he built a wall and he turned it down.  Not the Dems fault he's so bad at this.

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1 hour ago, Stealthycat said:

why have the Democrats changed so much in just 5 years on what they were willing to give then vs what they're willing to give now ?

some quick googling .... Republican's didn't want to give amnesty type concessions  for already here illegally people when they refused the 2013 bill - is that what the core reason was  ?

The Republicans/Trump don't just get to pick all the terms. 25 billion in exchange for a path for citizenship for a couple million people who are already here. Now Trump has backed himself into a corner where the Dems can give him nothing. 

It's almost like he has no clue.

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16 minutes ago, The General said:

They gave him a deal that would have allowed him to say he built a wall and he turned it down.  Not the Dems fault he's so bad at this.

I don’t disagree with that but I just think at this point if he gets funding for his wall he gets a boost for the 2020 election which partially wants me to see them refuse to give in.

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2 minutes ago, lazyike said:

I don’t disagree with that but I just think at this point if he gets funding for his wall he gets a boost for the 2020 election which partially wants me to see them refuse to give in.

They hold the cards now. Not that the two parties enjoy working with each other but he's such a jackhole on a daily basis I'm sure they are going to love sticking it to him more than normal.

 

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2 hours ago, Henry Ford said:

 Because from 2011-2016 one main focus of the GOP was to make sure Obama and the Democrats couldn’t pass anything.

as we see Democrats right now doing ... and as I've said, political games

If Democrats wanted that border security THAT much only a short 5 years ago, giving Trump border security right now should be easy

51 minutes ago, The General said:

The Republicans/Trump don't just get to pick all the terms.

right - and I've said all along Trump WILL give something in exchange for his wall/barrier or something he can take to his voters and say "see, I secured the southern border like I said I would"

 

I read the above again - the 2013 proposal ...... I can't say that I find much I don't agree with as that article is written but it was like 1400 pages right? So there might have been much more there we don't know about too. Still, the key area's ..... I'd support such a bill absolutely

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2 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

I've said all along Trump WILL give something in exchange for his wall/barrier or something he can take to his voters and say "see, I secured the southern border like I said I would"

He's gone from a deal with 25 billion down to 1.6. Anyone paying any attention will know he's screwed this up royally.

And, of course he'll make up some stuff about whatever they come up with. No one believes him anymore except for the MAGA hat wearers. 

 

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13 hours ago, The General said:

Some people that live here already getting a pathway to stay. Since it was Obama’s plan though he didn’t like it. Now he’ll get to eat a crap sandwich. 

 

12 hours ago, Henry Ford said:

DACA and ending separation of families at the border. 

 

Those are the things I thought of too - and probably other things we don't know about.  I detest the idea of another amnesty type deal but .... because our Govt has failed in every administration since Reagan's amnesty this is where we are

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2 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

Those are the things I thought of too - and probably other things we don't know about.  I detest the idea of another amnesty type deal but .... because our Govt has failed in every administration since Reagan's amnesty this is where we are

The Democrats offered a huge comprehensive bill.  The Democrats offered exactly what Trump asked for in return for DACA and ending family separations.  Now the Republicans have offered nothing except "do what we say or we'll shut down the government."

This isn't a "both sides" issue.

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5 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

The Democrats offered a huge comprehensive bill.  The Democrats offered exactly what Trump asked for in return for DACA and ending family separations.  Now the Republicans have offered nothing except "do what we say or we'll shut down the government."

This isn't a "both sides" issue.

so Democrats were willing to secure the border for the United States citizens, something they've talked hard on for years, but ONLY if they got DACA/illegal immigrant wins ......

talk about holding US citizens security hostage, geeeeeeesh

 

but look, for 25 years its been BOTH sides at fault ............  Democrats and Republicans have talked tough on illegals and border ........ get it done. It doesn't have to be wrapped up with every other political agenda that's out there but that seems to be the only way our Govt and two party system works anymore :(

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6 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

so Democrats were willing to secure the border for the United States citizens, something they've talked hard on for years, but ONLY if they got DACA/illegal immigrant wins ......

talk about holding US citizens security hostage, geeeeeeesh

 

but look, for 25 years its been BOTH sides at fault ............  Democrats and Republicans have talked tough on illegals and border ........ get it done. It doesn't have to be wrapped up with every other political agenda that's out there but that seems to be the only way our Govt and two party system works anymore :(

It's called compromise. And the lack of it is the biggest reason Trump's presidency has been such a failure.

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11 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

so Democrats were willing to secure the border for the United States citizens, something they've talked hard on for years, but ONLY if they got DACA/illegal immigrant wins ......

talk about holding US citizens security hostage, geeeeeeesh

 

but look, for 25 years its been BOTH sides at fault ............  Democrats and Republicans have talked tough on illegals and border ........ get it done. It doesn't have to be wrapped up with every other political agenda that's out there but that seems to be the only way our Govt and two party system works anymore :(

NO.  No, that's not it at all.

The wall is a stupid idea.  Really, really, monumentally stupid waste of money and resources.  Democrats are all about a secure border, using things that would actually secure the border - surveillance, manpower, etc.  

If the Republicans wanted to throw $25 bn on an effectively useless thing they want to call "border security" then they need to bargain for it.  

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6 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

so Democrats were willing to secure the border for the United States citizens, something they've talked hard on for years, but ONLY if they got DACA/illegal immigrant wins ......

talk about holding US citizens security hostage, geeeeeeesh

 

but look, for 25 years its been BOTH sides at fault ............  Democrats and Republicans have talked tough on illegals and border ........ get it done. It doesn't have to be wrapped up with every other political agenda that's out there but that seems to be the only way our Govt and two party system works anymore :(

Ah, there it is. The ever-present and always unacknowledged rhetorical shift from "build the wall" to "fund border security," as if two very different things are the same.  It's getting tiresome.

There's plenty of funding already available for border security. The administration is even leaving some on the table. And there's bipartisan support for such funding, too. If Trump wanted funding for border security he could pretty much get a blank check from Congress ... if he agreed to tack on a provision that none of it would go to the wall boondoggle.

This fight is about the wall and only the wall.

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28 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

 

 

Those are the things I thought of too - and probably other things we don't know about.  I detest the idea of another amnesty type deal but .... because our Govt has failed in every administration since Reagan's amnesty this is where we are

It’s how our government works. There are no Kings. Guess what, you don’t get everything you want.

The Dems were IMO foolishly handing Trump a great deal, the Republicans were on board he torpedoed it.

He will now get a much lesser deal and he will be stuck making up bigger lies than normal to cover his enormous screw up.

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4 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

Ah, there it is. The ever-present and always unacknowledged rhetorical shift from "build the wall" to "fund border security," as if two very different things are the same.  It's getting tiresome.

There's plenty of funding already available for border security. The administration is even leaving some on the table. And there's bipartisan support for such funding, too. If Trump wanted funding for border security he could pretty much get a blank check from Congress ... if he agreed to tack on a provision that none of it would go to the wall boondoggle.

This fight is about the wall and only the wall.

Yeah, I can't find the numbers but my understanding is that the Trump administration has spent less than 10% of the border security money already earmarked for it.  This is nothing but a sideshow.

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20 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

so Democrats were willing to secure the border for the United States citizens, something they've talked hard on for years, but ONLY if they got DACA/illegal immigrant wins ......

talk about holding US citizens security hostage, geeeeeeesh

 

but look, for 25 years its been BOTH sides at fault ............  Democrats and Republicans have talked tough on illegals and border ........ get it done. It doesn't have to be wrapped up with every other political agenda that's out there but that seems to be the only way our Govt and two party system works anymore :(

It’s a disagreement how to “secure the border”. Do you understand how that works? People disagree about how something should function. They then work to compromise.

Many people don’t even think this is an issue that needs this amount of attention and that perhaps this is just a way for a reality TV show conman to manipulate people. 

Anyways. Here’s some info posted earlier you may have missed. Comments from the Dems on the Appropriations Commitee in the Senate:

”The President’s own budget request to Congress for Fiscal Year 2019 was $1.6 billion for his wall, not $5 billion.  I opposed this request when he made it this spring.  I did not and still do not want to appropriate another dime to advance a nebulous and ineffective agenda that I fundamentally oppose.  But our system of divided government requires compromise in order to function, and the Senate Appropriations Committee came up with a bipartisan compromise to meet the President’s $1.6 billion request, with restrictions on where the money could be used, and what type of barriers could be built, such as bollard fencing, but no 30-foot concrete wall.  But instead of taking “yes” and declaring victory, the President has repeatedly moved the goalposts and redefined victory.  So much for the Art of the Deal. 

Over the last two years, Congress has provided nearly $1.7 billion to build or replace fencing on the southern border, but the Administration has hardly spent any of that money, and the projects it has undertaken have ballooned in cost.  So far, only six percent of those funds have been spent.”

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9 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

Probably won't reach $25 million, but no reason to stop them from giving money away to a con artist.  

I'm think that around $25 million (which won't be till spring at this rate), quite a few donators are going to realize the GoFundMe has no chance and start to wonder where the f*** their money is going to go. Once that can't be answered, you're going to see a lot of people demand a refund.  Dukes of Hazard T-shirts and red hats aren't free, you know.

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33 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

Yeah, I can't find the numbers but my understanding is that the Trump administration has spent less than 10% of the border security money already earmarked for it.  This is nothing but a sideshow.

This is very misleading. Not saying by you since you are just repeating what was put out there. The reason you cant find the numbers is because they haven't actually been released. It was a smokescreen thrown out there by Leahy.

So yes, technically only a small % has been spent, that is because the projects aren't finished and the vast majority of the money wasnt earmarked until like 9 months ago. Some of the projects are opposed by organizations like the sierra club and Trump has even received criticism for waiving some environmental regulations in order to speed it up. 

I imagine Leahy was fairly annoyed that his series of talking points got almost no coverage and only like three replies on twitter.  

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58 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

Ah, there it is. The ever-present and always unacknowledged rhetorical shift from "build the wall" to "fund border security," as if two very different things are the same.  It's getting tiresome.

There's plenty of funding already available for border security. The administration is even leaving some on the table. And there's bipartisan support for such funding, too. If Trump wanted funding for border security he could pretty much get a blank check from Congress ... if he agreed to tack on a provision that none of it would go to the wall boondoggle.

This fight is about the wall and only the wall.

I gave him a long explanation and made the distinctions clear as well as showing him the things that point to this being about a physical wall and a physical wall alone....he's not interested....doesn't fit the narrative.

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