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MAGA hats/clothing plus politically related apparel discussion thread (1 Viewer)

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https://cis.org/Huennekens/DOJ-26-Federal-Prisoners-Are-Aliens

you'd have to do some research, that % isn't listed

Its very possible that with a vetting system the criminals coming here illegally would have been weeded out. We don't know - without border security, with 15 million here illegally, who knows what the numbers or percentages are. What we do know is the negative impacts on US citizens through the crimes illegals commit and the drain on US taxpayers.

Nobody is against legal immigration - illegal is the core problem. So when Trump says there are bad people, criminals, etc? He's right - there are. What % nobody knows.
I think everyone agrees that illegal immigration is an issue we want improved.  But the facts are that illegal immigration has been dropping for a decade and there are better uses of the money than building a wall that will be easily defeated.  How about we invest in the country's that the people are fleeing from so that fewer people want to leave?

 
I think everyone agrees that illegal immigration is an issue we want improved.  But the facts are that illegal immigration has been dropping for a decade and there are better uses of the money than building a wall that will be easily defeated.  How about we invest in the country's that the people are fleeing from so that fewer people want to leave?
How about we invest in our own country first, make it easier for illegals to come legally, and get tougher on those that do come illegally?

 
I think everyone agrees that illegal immigration is an issue we want improved.  But the facts are that illegal immigration has been dropping for a decade and there are better uses of the money than building a wall that will be easily defeated.  How about we invest in the country's that the people are fleeing from so that fewer people want to leave?
how many miles of walls have been built in the past 10 years?

I don't want my tax dollars building a central American country up ........ 1 in 6 kids are hungry in the USA, 550,000 homeless people, 100 million on social aid of some kind, tens of millions on food stamps, Veterans still not treated properly , over 21 trillion in national debt ........... we can't even help our own people

 
how many miles of walls have been built in the past 10 years?

I don't want my tax dollars building a central American country up ........ 1 in 6 kids are hungry in the USA, 550,000 homeless people, 100 million on social aid of some kind, tens of millions on food stamps, Veterans still not treated properly , over 21 trillion in national debt ........... we can't even help our own people
Why can't we work on our country while investing in Central America?  Maybe some rational, intelligent investments now would pay off in a decade and not only reduce the number of people that want to come here but also provide better markets for American goods. 

 
How about we invest in our own country first, make it easier for illegals to come legally, and get tougher on those that do come illegally?
I agree with this.  I also think we can invest in Central America in a smart way that helps both those countries and the US in the long run. 

 
how many miles of walls have been built in the past 10 years?

I don't want my tax dollars building a central American country up ........ 1 in 6 kids are hungry in the USA, 550,000 homeless people, 100 million on social aid of some kind, tens of millions on food stamps, Veterans still not treated properly , over 21 trillion in national debt ........... we can't even help our own people
Well, when we have a leader that shows disrespect to the military and exasperates some of the other problems by giving more tax breaks to the 1%.... 

 
I agree with this.  I also think we can invest in Central America in a smart way that helps both those countries and the US in the long run. 
Also the counter is that trump has also worked to decrease legal immigration.  This again he is doing things that may make the situation worse and then claim he fixed it (see also North Korea)

 
squistion said:
He didn't say some, he suggested most of those who are undocumented or almost all, adding the disclaimer And some, I assume, are good people
Well if they come across illegally and forge documents what else should we call them? 

 
some are good people - I agree ..... however

Over 250,000 criminal aliens were booked in Texas local jails between June 2011 and April 2018. These individuals were charged with more than 663,000 offenses, including:

1,351 homicide charges

79,049 assault charges

18,685 burglary charges

79,900 drug charges

815 kidnapping charges

44,882 theft charges

50,777 obstructing police charges

4,292 robbery charges

7,156 sexual assault charges

9,938 weapons charges.
Do you have the numbers on convictions?

 
Why can't we work on our country while investing in Central America?  Maybe some rational, intelligent investments now would pay off in a decade and not only reduce the number of people that want to come here but also provide better markets for American goods. 
its not our countries to build - its THEIR countries to build ........ and the US DOES contribute taxpayer monies to other countries not counting all the missionary trips/money/donations that pour from the US into central and south American countries.

I thought people hated the concept of country building? 

 
its not our countries to build - its THEIR countries to build ........ and the US DOES contribute taxpayer monies to other countries not counting all the missionary trips/money/donations that pour from the US into central and south American countries.

I thought people hated the concept of country building? 
If helping other countries out benefits our country then wouldn't it be a smart thing to do?

 
Questionable source

Overall, we rate CIS a questionable source based on publishing misleading information (propaganda) regarding immigration, as well as ties either directly or indirectly to the John Tanton Network, who is a known White Nationalist. 

 
Questionable source

Overall, we rate CIS a questionable source based on publishing misleading information (propaganda) regarding immigration, as well as ties either directly or indirectly to the John Tanton Network, who is a known White Nationalist. 
Is someone citing CIS again?  Despite this same conversation being had every time it is used as a source?

 
If helping other countries out benefits our country then wouldn't it be a smart thing to do?
no

pouring taxpayer dollars into a foreign countries economic and political issues doesn't help - short of our military going in and us Country building. Is that what you want?

again, we DO send money, Govt and privately ......... what changes a country is what you're seeing in Venezuela right now. The people have had enough - they're going to revolt and break the chains of socialism I hope.

 
Is someone citing CIS again?  Despite this same conversation being had every time it is used as a source?
cross reference the numbers and come back to me with a difference source and numbers then if you don't like the source I provided - but the proof is on you to disprove the numbers

 
cross reference the numbers and come back to me with a difference source and numbers then if you don't like the source I provided - but the proof is on you to disprove the numbers
Um, no, if you provide the numbers the onus is on you to prove they are legitimate if they are questioned, particularly from a source that has shown to be of dubious validity in the past.

 
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It may be...and the person who posted it is someone i dont talk to...just surprising that someone would continue to use cis as a source.
I dont find it that surprising. People still quote shaun king. I mean AOC quoted jacobin. If it were me I would link to the actual report, but my experience with CIS now is if they are quoting data from a govt report, it is correct. The times I find them less reliable are when the data is their own or if it is just a generic piece. 

 
no

pouring taxpayer dollars into a foreign countries economic and political issues doesn't help - short of our military going in and us Country building. Is that what you want?

again, we DO send money, Govt and privately ......... what changes a country is what you're seeing in Venezuela right now. The people have had enough - they're going to revolt and break the chains of socialism I hope.
Are you trying to say that helping another country would not benefit us or are you saying we shouldn't help a country even if it would benefit us?  They are two different things and only one answers my particular question.

 
Do you have a link to the Texas report that is quoted and cited by the DHS/DOJ?

That would be helpful, as they might be inclined to include information to the prosecution and convictions to go along with the data on charges.
From a quick google search looks like it is here.

DPS criminal history records reflect those criminal charges have thus far resulted in over 214,000 convictions including 466 homicide convictions; 22,647 assault convictions; 7,710 burglary convictions; 30,986 drug convictions; 284 kidnapping convictions; 13,592 theft convictions; 20,672 obstructing police convictions; 1,931 robbery convictions; 2,934 sexual assault convictions; 1,834 sexual offense convictions; and 3,007 weapon convictions.

 
Um, no, if you provide the numbers the onus is on you to prove they are legitimate if they are questioned, particularly from a source that has shown to be of questionable validity in the past.
if you don't like the numbers, search the internet and counter them - that's your choice and I've noticed here anytime information isn't palatable to people, they discard the source over and over and over

its comical and sad at the same time

 
Are you trying to say that helping another country would not benefit us or are you saying we shouldn't help a country even if it would benefit us?  They are two different things and only one answers my particular question.
we DO help other countries

do some searching, how much has united states taxpayer given to central and south American countries over the past decade? not including all the donations and outreach programs

how many billion do you want to spend ?

I found this   https://explorer.usaid.gov/cd/GTM?measure=Obligations&fiscal_year=2015

 
we DO help other countries

do some searching, how much has united states taxpayer given to central and south American countries over the past decade? not including all the donations and outreach programs

how many billion do you want to spend ?

I found this   https://explorer.usaid.gov/cd/GTM?measure=Obligations&fiscal_year=2015
Is there a better way to try and help?  Is there a way to make it so it does benefit us?  If we can find a way to have it benefit us then shouldn't we do it?

 
Is there a better way to try and help?  Is there a way to make it so it does benefit us?  If we can find a way to have it benefit us then shouldn't we do it?
when 1 in 6 kids are hungry, when health care is still an issue, when 500,000 homeless people roam, when Vets still have problems, when we have 100 million on social care ...

yeah, you get your own house in order FIRST then you can try to be a leader of the world

but go back and look at those years .......... we're pumping billions into central American countries over the past decade have we not ? and they're worse now than before? so tell me how did that actually help anything ?.

 
if you don't like the numbers, search the internet and counter them - that's your choice and I've noticed here anytime information isn't palatable to people, they discard the source over and over and over

its comical and sad at the same time
If it’s not Buzzfeed, it’s crap.  

 
when 1 in 6 kids are hungry, when health care is still an issue, when 500,000 homeless people roam, when Vets still have problems, when we have 100 million on social care ...

yeah, you get your own house in order FIRST then you can try to be a leader of the world

but go back and look at those years .......... we're pumping billions into central American countries over the past decade have we not ? and they're worse now than before? so tell me how did that actually help anything ?.
You struggle you give simple answers to simple questions.

 
when 1 in 6 kids are hungry, when health care is still an issue, when 500,000 homeless people roam, when Vets still have problems, when we have 100 million on social care ...

yeah, you get your own house in order FIRST then you can try to be a leader of the world
You know, you post stuff like this and then seem to be fully on board a side and President that takes care of the 1% over the issues that you just listed.  

 
Wait.  He provided the numbers and a link and you think he has to provide a link to prove his link?  
No, not normally,, but I think there should be an exception if something is taken from a site that is generally believed to be a questionable source. 

Taken from above about CIS:

 https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/center-for-immigration-studies-cis/

Overall, we rate CIS a questionable source based on publishing misleading information (propaganda) regarding immigration, as well as ties either directly or indirectly to the John Tanton Network, who is a known White Nationalist.
If people are linking sites who have a history of posting misleading information and have ties to White Nationalists, anything taken from there is suspect and it is pretty much a given that it would be either false or not what they purport it to be. I would feel the same if someone took facts from a David Duke related site, quoted it as gospel, and then demanded others prove what was said is misleading or wrong (which could be done, but it would be a pointless exercise and a waste of time).

 
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sho nuff said:
It may be...and the person who posted it is someone i dont talk to...just surprising that someone would continue to use cis as a source.
that mentality shows no desire to want to understand other views, to see differences and eclipse them nor does it indicate wanting to know truth and facts

I don't think I could do that - just goes against the entire purpose of a posting in a political forum IMO

 
Hawkeye21 said:
You struggle you give simple answers to simple questions.
is there a better way to help ?

that's complex - I mean define "help" ? 

do you think we need to spend billions instead of hundreds of millions each year? do you think that'll fix central and south American countries?

 
is there a better way to help ?

that's complex - I mean define "help" ? 

do you think we need to spend billions instead of hundreds of millions each year? do you think that'll fix central and south American countries?
Here's my question again.

If we help another country and that leads to it benefiting us, wouldn't we want to do that?

I know it's a hypothetical question but it's basically a yes or no question.  I'm not asking what we are currently doing and I'm not asking if it's currently helping right now.  I'm asking if we found a way to do something that did end up benefiting us, wouldn't it be smart to do it?

 
If we help another country and that leads to it benefiting us, wouldn't we want to do that?
there are 195 countries in the world, more than 100 are considered 3rd world

what we know by looking at those links is that we've poured over a billion dollars towards Guatemala over the past 10 years, haven't we ?  what's the result? In fact, what's the result of the United States being involved in Guatemala politics over the last 75 years ? has that "benefited" the US Taxpayers?

so no - the tossing billions of taxpayer dollars at other countries isn't a solution and its failed for a long long time.

 
there are 195 countries in the world, more than 100 are considered 3rd world

what we know by looking at those links is that we've poured over a billion dollars towards Guatemala over the past 10 years, haven't we ?  what's the result? In fact, what's the result of the United States being involved in Guatemala politics over the last 75 years ? has that "benefited" the US Taxpayers?

so no - the tossing billions of taxpayer dollars at other countries isn't a solution and its failed for a long long time.
My God man.  Why is it impossible for you to give a simple answer to a simple question?  I'm not asking for a bunch other crap like what is happening now or if it's benefiting us now.  I'm asking if it benefited us should we do it.

 
Thanks to @parasaurolophus for the link . The numbers don't match what the DHS/DOJ report printed so we will put them side by side.

Arrest and Conviction Data for Select Offenses Associated with Illegal Criminal Aliens Identified by DHS through Texas arrests from 6/1/2011 through 12/31/2018 are bolded.

1,351 homicide charges, 539 arrests, 238 convictions

79,049 assault charges, 32,443 arrests, 13,559 convictions

18,685 burglary charges,  5,695 arrests, 3,138 convictions

79,900 drug charges,   36.840 arrests, 17,806 convictions

815 kidnapping charges,  395 arrests, 173 convictions

44,882 theft charges,  15,849 arrests, 7,064 convictions

50,777 obstructing police charges,  23,487 arrests, 11,264 convictions

4,292 robbery charges,  1,650 arrests. 1,011 convictions

7,156 sexual assault charges,   3.428 arrests, 1689 convictions

9,938 weapons charges,  2,949 arrests, 1,280 convictions

I wonder why the Department of Homeland Security and the Department of Justice would only include Texas's data for "charges" while excluding their data for "arrests" and "convictions"?

 
My God man.  Why is it impossible for you to give a simple answer to a simple question?  I'm not asking for a bunch other crap like what is happening now or if it's benefiting us now.  I'm asking if it benefited us should we do it.
:lol:   Save your breath.  It's not happening.

 
Thanks to @parasaurolophus for the link . The numbers don't match what the DHS/DOJ report printed so we will put them side by side.

Arrest and Conviction Data for Select Offenses Associated with Illegal Criminal Aliens Identified by DHS through Texas arrests from 6/1/2011 through 12/31/2018 are bolded.

1,351 homicide charges, 539 arrests, 238 convictions

79,049 assault charges, 32,443 arrests, 13,559 convictions

18,685 burglary charges,  5,695 arrests, 3,138 convictions

79,900 drug charges,   36.840 arrests, 17,806 convictions

815 kidnapping charges,  395 arrests, 173 convictions

44,882 theft charges,  15,849 arrests, 7,064 convictions

50,777 obstructing police charges,  23,487 arrests, 11,264 convictions

4,292 robbery charges,  1,650 arrests. 1,011 convictions

7,156 sexual assault charges,   3.428 arrests, 1689 convictions

9,938 weapons charges,  2,949 arrests, 1,280 convictions

I wonder why the Department of Homeland Security and the Department of Justice would only include Texas's data for "charges" while excluding their data for "arrests" and "convictions"?
Just an FYI there were really two data sets involved here. You are taking one side of numbers from the smaller pot and the other side from the bigger pot. I am not sure I fully understand the difference between a criminal illegal alien and a criminal alien, but the data is different. 

As for the charges vs arrests, I think many people would argue that it is much harder to arrest somebody that is here illegally than somebody here legally. 

 
Just an FYI there were really two data sets involved here. You are taking one side of numbers from the smaller pot and the other side from the bigger pot. I am not sure I fully understand the difference between a criminal illegal alien and a criminal alien, but the data is different. 

As for the charges vs arrests, I think many people would argue that it is much harder to arrest somebody that is here illegally than somebody here legally. 
Yes, I me ti ed the sets don't match. The DHS and DOJ decided to report just one set...the set with higher numbers.

 
Yes, I me ti ed the sets don't match. The DHS and DOJ decided to report just one set...the set with higher numbers.
The charges were based off of a pool of like 270000 people. The arrests and convictions data comes from a pool of like 180,000 people. 

So putting those two numbers side by side like you did doesnt really show anything. 

 
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