Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
WR Andy Isabella, BAL (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Bojang0301
- Start date
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
Absolutely ecstatic with this pick as Cards fan.
Was hoping to leave the draft with either Hollywood or Isabella. 2 of the guys that really stood out to me in this WR class coming into the draft and fit what Cards/Kyler needed.
Was hoping to leave the draft with either Hollywood or Isabella. 2 of the guys that really stood out to me in this WR class coming into the draft and fit what Cards/Kyler needed.
Last edited by a moderator:
TartanLion
Footballguy
Aboard the train as a new dynasty owner
wgoldsph
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Snorkelson
Footballguy
Pre draft some people had butler as their #1 wr or in the top 5 so I think you’re seeing residual bias. People that liked butler a lot still like butler- and a lot of people just plain don’t like Isabella because of size. Pre draft butler is probably top 5ish pick and Isabella is a mid 2nd, so I’m not entirely surprised that some people still have butler ahead of Isabella. What really surprises me is that butler still goes in rd 1 of dynasty drafts.tkrull said:
Ilov80s
Footballguy
tkrull said:
I listened to a CBS dynasty rookie mock that had Butler go in the top 10 (maybe even as high as 8 and Isabella go in the late 20s. The masses are way out there on this.
jm192
Footballguy
I think I've seen in other posts, you like him quite a bit.
Can I ask you to elaborate on your outlook? Not in a questioning/I think you're wrong way. I see a guy who's 5'8 and played at UMass and don't envision a future stud. But I know very little about him other than he's fast and was very productive.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
Not trying to speak for Dan, but my thoughts:
The NFL is increasingly played in space. We’re seeing smaller guys have more success than they have in the past. If you can regularly create separation, and create yards in space, there’s a sizable role for you.
The NFL saw a short guy from UMass with small hands - and still valued him highly. He was a 2nd round pick in a deep WR draft, right where he was projected to go.
I think the best argument is the simplest: The NFL saw the kid as a 2nd round pick; he’s going to an exciting system to catch balls from an exciting QB.
Last edited by a moderator:
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Hes not without warts, but there are a few things I like:
1. college production. He has smaller hands and catch radius, but he led the NCAA in reception yards
2. work ethic. he gets it. he has it between the ears and wont be accused of being lazy ever. it's the #1 reason I liked Lindsay last year- first guy in, last guy home mentality. the guy went and bought a jugs machine to prepare for the season...
3. he meets these criteria
4. Murray was very successful with an undersized wr in Hollywood Brown. I'm not saying Murray made Brown, rather Murray does a good job creating his wrs open in the short to intermediate routes with his rushing abilities
5. the offense thrives on short to intermediate routes. Arizona specifically picked him ahead of larger wrs with different skill sets... why?
6. Arizona drafted Isabella and then Butler... Butler can keep defenses honest in the long ball as he can win contested catches more often than Isabella, freeing Isabella up for the intermediate routes, which typically equal higher volume
Someone in the Arizona offense is going to see a lot of targets. Butler is not a very good route runner and even though he has big hands, he cant catch. Kirk I like a lot, and he could ultimately be the guy to own long term. Isabella I see as a high posession type wr.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Isabella bought a jugs machine, not Lindsay lol, but Lindsay's work ethic is what I see in Isabella
Snorkelson
Footballguy
Fantasy community- we like metcalf, butler, and harmon.
NFL community- we like brown, Isabella, and guys like Tyreek Hill.
Its a cycle imo. 80s football was predicated on running and defense. Bill Walsh ran a dynasty because he came in with the west coast offense. Rules changed for defense. Teams started throwing more, so the reaction was get quick DBs and safeties that could stop the short pass. Then they started drafting bigger wrs, and bigger DBs to cover them. Suddenly teams were going back to the RB position the last few years, and small quick guys like Tyreek Hill are a commodity.
Defenses are built to stop things, offenses get different personnel to create mismatches.
NFL community- we like brown, Isabella, and guys like Tyreek Hill.
Its a cycle imo. 80s football was predicated on running and defense. Bill Walsh ran a dynasty because he came in with the west coast offense. Rules changed for defense. Teams started throwing more, so the reaction was get quick DBs and safeties that could stop the short pass. Then they started drafting bigger wrs, and bigger DBs to cover them. Suddenly teams were going back to the RB position the last few years, and small quick guys like Tyreek Hill are a commodity.
Defenses are built to stop things, offenses get different personnel to create mismatches.
Last edited by a moderator:
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I think the fantasy film watchers really were the ones propping up Metcalf and especially Butler/Harmon. The metrics community was down on them and very high on Isabella. Nobody was on Tyreek untill he hit- nobody could have predicted that.
The fantasy divide on Butler, Harmon and Isabella was pretty massive. Waldman called Butler the best WR prospect he has ever seen. Others called him “Bustler” and had him outside the top 10 WRs.
Last edited by a moderator:
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
I think both of you are right depending on the prospect. No metrics guy is going to come to the defense of Mecole Hardman except guys who obsess over sub 4.4 speed. I still love athleticism but there is diminishing returns hitting the auto button for those guys. They have to meet production thresholds too or they’re just an outlier. Isabella meets both but, yes, it seems Daniel Jeremiah and the like weren’t fond of him but nor were they Butler. Evan Silva said nice things about Jeremiah this offseason. I’m sure he’s an ok dude, I highly disagree with whatever the hell he’s doing to rank guys. You can’t have Josh Jacobs in your top five, still beyond absurd.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
I agree. I'm not sure what to do with 1.1 in my other league. might just draft Harry
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
Well, just for clarification, Jeremiah had him in his top 5 or 10 OVERALL. While I want to hate Jacobs at 1.01, I get it. It’s not something I’d prefer to do.
cloppbeast
Footballguy
Interseptopus
Footballguy
hoping to trade but I dont care for Jacobs aside from his situationWe all know you're going to take Harry. Lol
barackdhouse
Footballguy
I've made it very clear to my leaguemates that the 1.01 is available. I have had zero offers and not a single question asked about it. Active league I'm an active trader. No one wants it. Just gonna take Jacobs and hope for the best.
tkrull
Footballguy
Same thing happened in one of my leagues. 1.01 offered it, nobody wanted it. I still think Jacobs is the clear 1.01 though.
EBF
Footballguy
He was actually on the radar for a while. He always had a rare level of speed and intriguing athletic tools. I knew about him from early on and had him as a possible first round talent around 2014-2015.Ilov80s said:
https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/283290-dynasty-rankings/page/425/?tab=comments#comment-16483403
https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/702717-dynasty-2015-draft-prospects/page/35/?tab=comments#comment-17542199
https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/702717-dynasty-2015-draft-prospects/page/23/?tab=comments#comment-17314632
Did I know he would be so good? No, I thought he was more of a tweener. It wasn't obvious that he'd be so good at WR since his college career even before getting booted from OSU was as more of a gadget player and return man than a prolific pass catcher. Certainly you could see that he had something special athletically though.
As for Isabella, one of the most boom-or-bust guys in this class IMO. Blazing speed. He gets into his routes at lightning pace and will eat up cushion, even in the NFL. He's a bit tightly-wound though and lacks Tyreek's east-west quickness. Compact frame, but very short and stubby. Very small catch radius. Body catches too much. He has elite traits in certain categories, but glaring issues in other areas. I was looking at him again last night and I think I like the risk-reward around WR6 in this class. I have AJ Brown, Deebo, and Harry above him. I think Marquise Brown, if he stays healthy, is a good NFL receiver. I don't have a great handle on Metcalf, but if he hits then his ceiling is higher. After that is where I start to think about Isabella, as I'm not sold on JJAW, Hardman, Campbell, Butler, D Johnson, etc. If it pans out, you're getting something like a turbo Welker, which could be prolific in that offense. There's a huge ceiling, but I can also see him being a total flop.
The style debate is interesting. When you think about the 90s/00s there were some modestly sized guys like Harrison and Bruce who thrived, but the prototype was probably the big Keyshawn/Muhammad/Owens/Moss/Fitzgerald guys who had size. That can certainly still work, as evidenced by people like JuJu, Thomas, and Julio. On the other hand, the shift towards more passing and the new rules have obviously created increased opportunities for some of the smaller players since the WR/CB play is less physical overall. We've seen the great success of people like TY Hilton and Tyreek Hill.
It's a copycat league and when you look at the relatively high selections of Marquise Brown, Mecole Hardman, Parris Campbell, Andy Isabella, and Diontae Johnson this year; and people like Will Fuller, Phillip Dorsett, and John Ross is recent years, it's clear that teams covet the vertical threat. Ultimately, there's room for both big and small WRs to thrive if they have the necessary traits. Some of these guys are copycat picks though and definitely aren't going to live up to their billing, which is always the case with draft picks.
I don't have much to say about Butler and Harmon specifically, but it's always a juggling act to weigh your own subjective evaluations against the information the league is giving you. By letting those guys fall to day three, the league is saying they aren't great prospects. How much you want to bet against the house is up to you.
Last edited by a moderator:
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Fair but those posts were at latest October of 2014. After that, he was kicked off Oklahoma State and was pretty unproductive West Alabama. 681 yards and 5 from scrimmage including a total of 54 scrimmage yards over his final 3 college games. This guy was not on the fantasy radar. Mike Clay had Tyreek as #73 for dynasty rookies after the draft, he didn't have a FBG thread untill October of his rookie year, etc. Nobody was heading into the NFL draft or dynasty drafts touting this guy as a fantasy prospect with a bright future.
EBF
Footballguy
He was a sleeper pick for sure, but definitely a player that people were aware of. I had him as a priority waiver type of guy: someone I didn't want to draft, but was happy to grab off waivers. There were a lot of question marks (character, position, draft slot), but you can't teach 9.98s speed and if you watched his highlights it was clear that he had some unusual athletic traits.
dipandglide
Footballguy
Interseptopus
Footballguy
kutta
Footballguy
Word is he’s looking good. The players are saying he’s really quiet and keeps to himself. Not a big deal, but a couple guys have said that now, Kirk being the latest. I’m just wondering if he’s fitting in with the team. Again, it’s probably nothing, but just something to keep an eye on.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Last edited by a moderator:
Leroy's Aces
Footballguy
Crushed college, crushed the combine, crushed the Senior Bowl, bought his own juggs machine, and has an incredible work ethic. No one has proven they can out-scout something as basic as NFL draft position, so the Butler over Isabella truthers were in trouble from day one. And it keeps sounding worse for them. When Kliff Kingsbury said "that would be amazing" about the prospect of getting Isabella in round two on draft day as part of the Rosen trade, the armchair scouts should have paused the game tape, listened and thought for a minute about what that actually meant. Isabella = Future star.
Mark Football
Footballguy
steelers1080
Footballguy
I don't currently have any picks after 1.06, but I'm considering jumping back in later for him if I'm able. Really like his tape and there's almost 0 buzz around him right now.
buck naked
Footballguy
In FFPC leagues in May, I traded my 2020 1st in order to draft him in early 2nd several times in leagues where I have very strong teams, so next year's 1st should be late.
