Sure, YOU can't help, but Trump can, but he doesn't/ won't. Its who he is. His intent, was to sow doubt about the virus -- a hoax. I just don't see how this is arguable otherwise; but we can agree to disagree.
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***Official Joe Biden Campaign Thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Joe Bryant
- Start date
sho nuff
Footballguy
Again...to just claim its the Democrats holding this up...is absolutely ridiculous. Where she is right is that wolf, like some here, won't say it either...that its just brought up as if the Democrats have the control here. Not that the House has passed things...not that McConnel has let things sit on his desk again...not that Trump was the one who declared nothing would happen (before reversing course). Not that the WH refuses to budge on items...
Mile High
Footballguy
Exactly. The Republicans could just go ahead and pass the house bill and the president could go ahead and sign it if the goal is to truly to help the people.
Shutout
Footballguy
The "quote" is actions speak louder than words. It is literally demonstrated every single day when the two sides say "Why won't you take to 1.8 Trillion dollars and help your citizens?" and the reply is "because we want 2.2 trillion and we ant that because we want "x" amount to go to all these democratic cities for rebuilding, bailing out and we want "x" amount set aside to undocumented workers."
It is all there for anyone to listen to or read every single day if they want to . Just note that any research you do, check the date of the pub. because they have updated it several times since it began. Some of the issues that were initially there ($ for tracing, testing, amount of stimulus, etc) have been agreed on mainly.
squistion
Footballguy
Mile High
Footballguy
So no actual quote of anyone saying they want money for only Democrat ran cities and states.
Shutout
Footballguy
I seriously urge you to truly research this before you make a final decision because there is much more to the story than what one media side reports.
Most of us know that when dealing with statistics and dealing with a unique event involving the mass differences from country to country that the way we interpret the resulting numbers can depend largely in how it is presented (or what we want to see to make our case). The old saying about "if you control the unit of measure, you control the outcome" is largely into play.
In my opinion, I would not want to see anybody die. But the entire world is impacted and while I couldn't say if I were in office, you, Joe Biden, or anyone else, if the results would have been better or worse, I know there is a chance it could have been even worse or, would have come at an even greater cost.
Playing armchair QB we can say the CDC and WHO had it wrong and maybe Joe Biden would have put us all into lockdown just because that's his nature (although he did criticize the president for banning travel so quickly which seems to go against what a lot are saying he would do). But let's go back a few steps to the Obama administration. Not a lot of people recall when the H1N1 flu was a scare and Joe Biden publicly said shut down the subways, restaurants, etc. That sounds like what he is suggesting now to shut down the economy. Does anyone remember (or WANT to remember) what happened then? The very next day, Obama himself released a statement on "whoa! That's not what we want to do." and he reigned Joe back in. W
Why did they do that? Because they know that if you shut down the economy, you make an entirely different problem on a global scale. Ok, let's shut it down and stop the transmission that we now know, to date, has killed "x" amount of people. But what we don't ever own up to is that IF you did that, you would have unknown amounts of people go hungry, lose their livelihood forever, some would resort to theft, riot, unrest, etc. Then take into account that it would have a global impact on the world economy which, in turn, would prevent 1st world countries from giving food, water, med aid, etc to 3rd world countries, killing even exponentially more people.
There is a cost that goes FAR beyond the "simple" solutions here.
But what we can clearly see with president Trump is that his business acumen resulted in fast tracking a vaccine at a pace never seen in history, resulted in the PROPER use of the Defense production act (not the nationalization use that led Venezuella into such a mess), which resulted in no overrun hospitals, no national shortage or ventilators, etc, etc.
I would rather have 4 more years of a president who I know is active every day pushing for results that help balance this as best as possible than 4 years of a democratic party whose answer is to hide in a hole until blows over and then we will deal with the devastating economic fallout after IF we decide to actually put the needs of the people first and pass s stimulus bill that simply does its job and sends assistance to people without being held by unrealistic demands that do not help citizens right now, today, when needed.
Shutout
Footballguy
Translation: "I am not going to handfeed you what you can see every single day if you open your ears and eyes and educate yourself."
Fact-The stimulus is being held up.
Fact-It is being held up because Pelosi isn't making a priority of aiding people. She is making a priority of getting billions to democratic cities to fund political agendas and undocumented worker recruitment efforts.
It is too simple to NOT understand, yet some people don't. If YOUR elected officials cared for YOU, you wouldn't have millions of people saying they are at their wit's ends. You wouldn't have congressmen in their own Democratic party asking Pelosi to let it go, you wouldn't have poster child CNN's Wolf Blitzer calling out Pelosi.
When your OWN people are telling you are messing up, you need to open your eyes.
Shutout
Footballguy
That's absurd. Yeah they COULD pass it IF they would fold like a lawn chair and give into ridiculous demands.
That''s like me saying "we don't agree that you should give me all your money. I kidnap your son and then when you can't get me to give him back my reasoning is "well, you COULD just make all this go away...just give in to my ridiculous demands".
This is nothing more than the democrats blaming the republicans for what they, themselves, are actually creating. THEY have the chance to help Americans and they won't. They can agree today and get aid to people but they won't UNLESS it also gives BILLIONS to places that have no part of this need.
Mile High
Footballguy
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Shutout
Footballguy
Republicans won't act on a ridiculous non-offer. They asked for a plan to aid Americans. They got a proposal that aids political agendas and, oh bu the way, aids Americans. The only thing Republicans are asking for is to "just give us the aid part to Americans...you know, the stuff we actually NEED for our citizens".
But they won't. If I ask you to bring me a water for my thirsty dog and you bring me an orange juice and I don't accept it, its not my fault you didn't understand what you were supposed to be doing. My dog suffers because he goes thirsty but you don't care about that. You will blame me until I accept Orange Juice with helps you because you own the Orange grove.
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
Why is it absurd for Republican to "fold" and discuss the various bills the House has passed, but the House is supposed to "fold" to the White House's offer?
Shutout
Footballguy
I just replied to someone above. It is right there every day in the presentation to be heard or read. It is the part of the offer that each and every day the republicans say "for the love of God, help your citizens. Send aid to your people. Take out the stuff that is NOT part of the aid to the people so we can do this."
But it falls on deaf ears. Nope. We want money to go to our political cities and undocumented recruitment efforts and until you do that, let the people eat cake."
massraider
Footballguy
People should stop with the notion that if Pelosi goes with whatever GOP plan, that it'll get approved.
Mnuchin went to the Senate with a plan, and they basically kicked him off the conference call.
McConnell said he didn't think a deal was gonna hit the floor. He's not sure if he has the votes.
The president instructed his team to pull out of negotiations. Pelosi holding this hostage??
I'm glad Blitzer asked her the questions. Good for him. And she answered him. The GOP Senate wants to lower the help because a lot of it goes to blue states, and we were supposed to believe Pelosi is the problem??
Oy.
Progressives sometimes can be so soft.
Mnuchin went to the Senate with a plan, and they basically kicked him off the conference call.
McConnell said he didn't think a deal was gonna hit the floor. He's not sure if he has the votes.
The president instructed his team to pull out of negotiations. Pelosi holding this hostage??
I'm glad Blitzer asked her the questions. Good for him. And she answered him. The GOP Senate wants to lower the help because a lot of it goes to blue states, and we were supposed to believe Pelosi is the problem??
Oy.
Progressives sometimes can be so soft.
Most Americans see right through Trump and McConnell’s bull####. They know the senate has been sitting on (nearly 200?) house bills for years now. And Americans are going to punish the GOP at the ballot box this year.
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massraider
Footballguy
Yeah.
By the way, much thanks for everyone who provided all the details of the GOP 1.8T plan that everyone wants Pelosi to agree to.
Oh wait.....
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
Oh
The GOP that has spent 40 years trying to dismantle the New Deal via Starve the Beast; the GOP that passes one tax break for the 1% on the backs of the rest of us; that has spent a decade trying to undo an addition 20 million or so receiving coverage for health care; and on and on with their "fend for yourself' version of "help your citizens" are the ones that are begging for the democrats to help. But sadly all to often this utter and complete nonsense is bought by voters. Deaf ears indeed!
Shutout
Footballguy
It has been said numerous times in the thread already. It is said on TV every single day. Read it. Listen to it.
The Republicans will not agree to this proposal as it stands because the Democrats wants billions of dollars to be paid to select democratic cities with no strings attached. That has NOTHING to do with average citizens out of work needing money.
The Democrats also want billions of these dollars to be able to be paid to undocumented workers without social security cards, giving non-citizens stimulus money. That has nothing to do with average American citizens needing aid.
The Republicans have stated over and over, ad nadeem "if you will give us a proposal that addresses the need and only the need of the people without adding in non-need things as it pertains to this aid, we will immediately pass the multi TRILLION dollar stimulus."
It can not be any clearer. You have members of your own party and media supporters asking Pelosi "what are you doing?" That should tell you this isn't just some random guy on the internet saying something to which you say "QUOTE! I need a quote." This is what is out there every day for anyone who wants to pay attention. The Democrats are failing the people of the United States on this, creating undo and unnecessary anxiety.
Mile High
Footballguy
Shutout
Footballguy
No. Both parties are supposed to be addressing stimulus to American citizens in need due to Covid. Nothing else. The Republicans have repeatedly said "let's keep it to that one priority" but the democrats only want to address it if they can add in money for undocumented workers in our country and direct "no strings attached" billions to select cities across the nation.
Those two things have NOTHING to do with getting financial aid to American citizens and that is simply why it isn't going anywhere.
It is like me trying to buy your house but you keep giving me a sell price that includes your car and boat too. I tell you, " no man, jus the house. How much for the house? and you keep coming back with a price for a house, car, and boat."
Mile High
Footballguy
You keep saying this but offer no proof. Granted I haven't read the bill word for word but I don't see anything that said only these cities get money and to the rest no money for you.
Shutout
Footballguy
Should be even easier for you to turn on a Television or look it up. Everywhere you look for the past week there has been a literal begging for a standalone bill and Pelosi will NOT do it.
It is purely political at the expense of the people. The Republicans have said time and again they will pass a stimulus to the people as it was sid to be needed when offered up but will not negotiate undocumented workers, bailouts for other corporations, bailouts for cities, etc.
One party crafted a second stimulus before summer, while the other laughed and threw it on the pile. Now the GOP magically cares about the citizenry, mere weeks before the upcoming pummeling on November 3rd. It’s ridiculously obvious.
Mile High
Footballguy
Shutout
Footballguy
To clarify, I mentioned that these are two sticking points. I did not say "to the rest no money for you". There is money going to citizens but only IF they also agree to send money to cities the democrats propose as well as set aside some money for undocumented workers (not working USA citizens), etc.
The big picture is the issue should be "let's agree to send money to aid our people" but the proposal keeps coming back "lets do that as long as you will also do these 304 other things which are incredibly expensive". It isn't right to only help your citizens based on the contingency that you will also do something not related to the stated need.
That is all.
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
Yes, the Senate has asked for a $500 billion bill that sort of addresses a few things while making employers immune if their employees get sick. Which even the President rejects-
- Donald J. Trump
- @realDonaldTrump
- STIMULUS! Go big or go home!!!
- 10:01 AM · Oct 13, 2020
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
Shutout
Footballguy
oh, its obvious but not the way you think .
What you just described is akin to me saying "back in the summer Greedo wanted to sell me his house for $500,00. So, I quickly sent him a proposal that I would buy his house, car, boat, and camper for $501,000. For some reason Greedo kept saying 'no man, I just want to sell the house' so I, of course, kept sending him the same offer for the house, boat, car, and camper.
Well, now here we are and the bank is getting ready to foreclose Greedo's house but its obviously not my fault. I could have bailed him out if he had only accepted my offer. I apparently am the one in the right because all I have done for months now is offer a great deal and he just keeps saying no. I don't understand what his problem is."
massraider
Footballguy
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
No.
Wait until November 4th and we’ll see how the GOP approaches any kind of stimulus. If it’s anything other than the GOP saying “screw you people, no stimulus at all” I will eat my hat.
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The past few pages have demonstrated to me that you are trying to sway people in the Biden thread. Don't you have your own thread to praise Trump and belittle the Dems? BTW, I've voted Republican before and may again if the party ever goes back to being the Republican Party. This iteration is not the Republican Party I've previously voted for.
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Shutout
Footballguy
That just shows how uninformed you are. And I don't mean that to sound nasty. I am honestly trying to talk through this.
No, The Republicans are not saying that at all. They have said "let's resolve this priority issue immediately and then talk about the others individually." But the democrats won't address them individually because, honestly, they know that A) passing something quickly helps the economy and doesn't look bad on the government for helping and B)the issues they want to lace into the real issue is not a strong, compelling argument on its own to get what they want.
It is like if if i am your doctor and I say "you have a broken leg, let's deal with that and you say "Well, I'm here. Let's fix my leg and talk about my hair loss" As your doctor, I want to cure the priority and its no sense wasting your time giving hair samples in a clinic when you could be in my office getting your leg set. But for some reason, if you can't have both, you will walk out of my office upset and on a broken leg. It makes no sense. I have never said I won't talk to you about your hair loss. It just means the hair loss is not as important as a mended leg.
massraider
Footballguy
Shutout
Footballguy
Actually, it was the republicans who initially asked for employer shields way back in the beginning but in the current time they have said "forget what we added. forget what you added. lets' do a standalone." The democrats, to date, won't.
1.8 trillion, in my book, is going big. Getting it done in a big way. $2Trillion is, of course, larger, but the point (to try to stay on one) is the American people need aid and the only thing holding it ump as we sit here this morning is that the democratic party will not say "ok, let's talks about a stimulus check and ONLY a stimulus check and leave this other stuff until the next discussion.
massraider
Footballguy
Mile High
Footballguy
The same Republicans who said we cant vote on a SC justice during a presidential election year?
Shutout
Footballguy
You might want to get a tasty hat.
There is absolutely NO indication, stated nor implied, that the republican party does not want to aid the American citizens. If that were the case there would not have been a $3Trillion stimulus quickly passed just 6 months ago.
The GOP did this to garner favor from the electorate. It worked in the short term. This play just before the election literally is a vote grab attempt by the GOP. If they actually had any concern for average Americans, they would have negotiated with the House this spring.
Shutout
Footballguy
I'm not trying to sway anyone. I have mentioned several times, actually that this election is not an election based on persuading either side. That cake is baked. People are already decided.
I only want to discuss topics and both learn and educate and that is part of the reason why I don't just stick to "my own thread" as you suggest. that is a dangerous situation to only hang around with people who only think as you do; people who only bob their head and agree with you. It may make you think you are right but it doesn't help educate you.
I welcome learning from others. I am not one of these people who only listen to conservatives or liberals. I enjoy both. I honestly learn things all the time that allow me to research things and see the reality of something and not just the heavy bias. We don't have to agree. If you truly believe something, you do.
massraider
Footballguy
Shutout
Footballguy
To me, the broken leg is the immediate stimulus to people who need money to keep the lights on and food on the table, etc. Everything else, to some degree, is hair loss. They can each have their place but it all loses importance if we suddenly have homeless, hungry, desperate people all over the place.
Shutout
Footballguy
Shutout
Footballguy
I do not agree with that for a few reasons;
-It implies that the Republican party has absolutely no reason to hold dear the safety and prosperity of its citizens.
-If anything, this favors the Democrats to do now before the election because it is a way to thump on the "elect me and take back the senate because look what we just got for you" platform.
-Thjis was negotiated in the spring, a stimulus passed, and the things discussed now at present are the results of things that have come from that as the pandemic has continued.
sho nuff
Footballguy
They haven't acted on anything...thats the point. But you keep just claiming that its Nancy doesn't want to help people.
But hey...yeah, keep thinking Mitch and Trump are all about helping the people and big bad Nancy is in the way. People know better than that man
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
Except the GOP $500 billion bill to be voted on Monday is absolutely not just a "a stimulus check and ONLY a stimulus check". It has this "other stuff".
Shutout
Footballguy
I will keep that perspective.. Just like several memes era of their own democratic party, like Wolf Blitzer, etc. I mean, its totally fair if you want to say I come down on the Republican side of this. I Do. But it should be telling to someone who can set their bias aside and recognize that when your own party and supporters are saying "You are holding this up. YOU can fix this if you will but you won't", that this isn't as simple as saying."nah, aint me, man. Its you, man."
Shutout
Footballguy
The offer has been there for almost two weeks(?), machine more to do a standalone. It was declined. Much like Senator Scott's offer regarding the police several months ago when this started, the Republicans often will offer a compromise where the Democrats will often take a "all or none" approach.
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
They should know better than that, but this entire conversation is testament to the con job that the GOP has done to suggest that democrats want to take from "real Americans" and help everyone else. Even if it is true this time as soon as the ship is righted there will be more tax cuts for the "job creators" and the cycle starts all over again.
sho nuff
Footballguy
A few in the party may be saying it...don't play it off as the party saying that.
And there are plenty saying the same of Trump and The Republicans...but you discount that. That seems odd.
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