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TE T.J. Hockenson, DET


Faust

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I took Hock at 125 at the 12th TE off the board, so I'm certainly more than happy with the production. But yeah...watching the Lions (which I admittedly dont do much) its clear that he's capable of doing a lot more.

 I've been the last team to draft a TE in my league for 3 years running (Kittle....Andrews....now Hock. LOOK AT ME!!! I'M GOOD AT DRAFTING TIGHT ENDS!!!) so I'm sure I wont be in a position to get him next year.   But he's still been awesome value this year. Super solid.

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18 minutes ago, TLEF316 said:

I took Hock at 125 at the 12th TE off the board, so I'm certainly more than happy with the production. But yeah...watching the Lions (which I admittedly dont do much) its clear that he's capable of doing a lot more.

 I've been the last team to draft a TE in my league for 3 years running (Kittle....Andrews....now Hock. LOOK AT ME!!! I'M GOOD AT DRAFTING TIGHT ENDS!!!) so I'm sure I wont be in a position to get him next year.   But he's still been awesome value this year. Super solid.

He has been super solid.   I should have used him as a flex over Parker this week and will do that next week.   I have Waller too and have refused to drop Hock all season since points from the TE position has been my advantage all season.   

Maybe the new coach won’t limit targets to Hock like Patricia did.  

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I think TJ is in that 6-8 range of TE’s next year with upside.  Even with not knowing if Stafford will be back next year, TJ will get his.  If the Lions somehow got rid of Stafford and went to the draft to find a QB, many inexperienced QBs lock on to the TE as their primary target, Denver is an example.  I wouldn’t reach for him thinking he will have this great breakout season next year but he’ll hold his position if you don’t end up taking the top 3 or 4 TE’s in next year’s draft.

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The dude is a rare stud TE, this regime had no idea on how to utilize his talent within their system. Once Golliday was out he should have been the focal point of their passing offense, he would consistently flash then they would go away from him. 

Last off season I decided to be aggressive and go after Hock, basically moved Ertz for Hock thinking this was only a long term deal but paid off right away. Barring a serious injury I will be shocked if he is not a top 3 TE for the next 10 years.

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T.J. Hockenson caught 3-of-3 targets for 25 yards in the Lions' Week 17 loss to the Vikings.

Hockenson was a top-five tight end for most of the season, which is more of a reflection on the position than Hockenson. The second-year pro had 67 receptions for 723 yards and six touchdowns. Hockenson’s career 6.8 yards per target average doesn’t align with his No. 8 overall billing, but there’s certainly reason for optimism ahead of 2021. It’s easy to see how Hockenson clears 110 targets next season with Kenny Golladay, Marvin Jones, and Danny Amendola all set for free agency this offseason, although the Lions will likely hang onto Golladay via the franchise tag if they can’t agree to a long-term extension. Hockenson’s 2021 ceiling will be tied to how the Lions’ complicated offseason shakes out. Detroit could have a new head coach, offensive coordinator, quarterback, and three-receiver set by the time Hockenson takes his next snap.

- Rotoworld

 

Edited by The Frankman
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Fantasy Winners & Losers: Matthew Stafford & Jared Goff Trade (2021)

Excerpt:

Quote

T.J. Hockenson (TE – DET)

Will the trade for Goff encourage or discourage Marvin Jones or Kenny Golladay (both slated for 2021 free agency) to stay? It’s too early to tell, but this move may be a huge boom for Hockenson. Jared Goff has averaged a healthy 141 targets to TEs over the last two seasons, and if both Golladay and Jones leave Detroit, Hock could be in for a high-volume, Darren Waller type season. Waller commanded a robust 26.3% target share for Las Vegas in 2020, and with potentially Quintez Cephusand D’Andre Swift his main competition for targets, it’s possible Hockenson’s target share creeps close to that, too. The best is yet to come for the 2020 Pro Bowler, as he stands to benefit in a big way from Goff’s arrival.

 

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Yes that's an interesting take. But is it a product of Goff's limitations as a QB or McVays scheming? 

Any thoughts on the HC/OC propensity to utilize TEs in the passing game? 

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5 hours ago, Truebluey said:

 

Any thoughts on the HC/OC propensity to utilize TEs in the passing game? 

Both the HC & OC seem to be run first guys, trying to break a 23 year streak of the Lions finishing in the bottom half of the NFL in rushing.

Not sure how much they want to include the TE in the passing game, but the HC is a former TE and TE coach, which might count for something.

Lions imo have only 2 players worth putting on a draft list as of now,  with Swift & Hock being those 2. 

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What's Hock worth in dynasty PPR right now?

I'm struggling with where to value him. A 1st round rookie pick? More than that?

Obviously, Kelce, Waller & Kittle are the top 3 then perhaps Goedert & Fant & Hock & Andrews & Logan Thomas. Gets murkey for ranking them after the top 3 IMO

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24 minutes ago, Helaire-ious said:

What's Hock worth in dynasty PPR right now?

I'm struggling with where to value him. A 1st round rookie pick? More than that?

Obviously, Kelce, Waller & Kittle are the top 3 then perhaps Goedert & Fant & Hock & Andrews & Logan Thomas. Gets murkey for ranking them after the top 3 IMO

Top 2 for me, the others are hard to rank. I'm just not a big fan of Waller but if you're in a win-now window he's valuable. I'd prefer Hockenson in general though. 

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8 hours ago, Helaire-ious said:

I'm struggling with where to value him. A 1st round rookie pick? More than that?

I moved up to 1.06 to grab him in a rookie dynasty draft (PPR / 1.5PPR for TE). year 2 he's in the pro bowl. now has a QB (and coordinators) that apparently love the TE.

not selling unless someone wants to be obscene

 

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3 hours ago, Soulfly3 said:

I moved up to 1.06 to grab him in a rookie dynasty draft (PPR / 1.5PPR for TE). year 2 he's in the pro bowl. now has a QB (and coordinators) that apparently love the TE.

not selling unless someone wants to be obscene

 

Guy wants my 1.09 & 2.12 for him. Not sure if I should hold my pick & hope for Pitts or Lawrence instead...

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1 hour ago, Helaire-ious said:

Guy wants my 1.09 & 2.12 for him. Not sure if I should hold my pick & hope for Pitts or Lawrence instead...

I wouldn't do that.  I would rather have Freirmuth and he can be had in the 2nd.

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18 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

I wouldn't do that.  I would rather have Freirmuth and he can be had in the 2nd.

Agree.

Hockenson may be young but he also was in a really good situation. Nothing at WR and trailing often(two things which might continue another year), staff who used a top 10 pick on him and felt need/pressure to utilize him. Don't see special. I in fact think a guy like Hunter Henry who can probably be had for a second in single PPR is better.

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The Athletic's Nick Baumgardner and Chris Burke said T.J. Hockensen can continue to be a central part of the Detroit offense even if the team drafts Florida's Kyle Pitts. 

Burke and Baumgardner believe the Lions taking Pitts with the No. 7 pick in the upcoming NFL Draft would "allow Hockenson to get back to what he does best: play with his hand on the ground." Baumgardner described Hockensen, 23, as "elite" as both a pass catcher and a run blocker playing with his hand on the ground at Iowa, where he caught 49 balls for 760 yards and six touchdowns as a sophomore in 2018. "To those who think a Pitts selection would hurt Hockenson or the Lions’ offense in general, I’d argue to the contrary in both areas," he added. Burke said "a Pitts-Hockenson combination ... wouldn’t require some drastic, desperate overhaul of the offense." Burke and Baumgardner conceded that Pitts' presence would strip Hockensen of some of the opportunity he had in 2020, when he was second on the team with 101 targets. Pitts, an athletic marvel, could be used as an outside receiver and a slot guy in Detroit's offense -- a matchup nightmare for opposing defenses. The question, of course, is how Pitts and Hockensen would be affected by Jared Goff as the team's Week 1 starter. 

RELATED: 

Kyle Pitts

SOURCE: The Athletic 

Apr 9, 2021, 9:22 AM ET

 

 

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NFL Beat Writers @32BeatWriters

“Goff and Hockenson have a chemistry that you can literally see developing at practice. After a well-placed ball during positional drills, Goff held up a thumbs up toward Hockenson, seemingly asking, “Was that where you want that pass?”

https://twitter.com/32beatwriters/status/1402752439258947585?s=21
 

Quote

NFL Beat Writers @32BeatWriters

“When Hockenson noticed the thumbs up, he returned it with a thumbs up and a nod. No words needed to be exchanged.”

https://twitter.com/32beatwriters/status/1402752440471109636?s=21

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6 hours ago, Faust said:

Kelce, Kittle, and Waller are the only tight ends that I would take over Hockenson right now.

I completely understand where you are coming from. And by that judgement you should deal Pitts to the Hockenson owner for the latter plus a big X.

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1 hour ago, Acrobat7 said:

I completely understand where you are coming from. And by that judgement you should deal Pitts to the Hockenson owner for the latter plus a big X.

What if I don’t have Pitts on my roster?
 

I should have clarified that I am referring to my projections for the 2021 season. In dynasty formats, I can see a case for Pitts over Hockenson; however, Pitts is still unproven at the NFL level and tight ends typically take a few years to adjust to the NFL game.

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Tight End University Summit (June 23-25 in Nashville) participants:

George Kittle, Noah Fant, T.J. Hockenson, Darren Waller, Mike Gesicki, David Njoku, Eric Ebron, Zach Ertz, Robert Tonyan and Mark Andrews.

No rookies, eh?

Anyway, out of those ten, that's TE2-5, TE9, TE11, TE13 - 7 of the first 13 that will go in most redrafts this summer. Kelce, Pitts, Goedert, Thomas, Higbee, and Irv Smith won't be there. Ebron and Ertz are mid-20s in ECR, Njoku....keep scrolling...TE45.

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1 hour ago, ratbast said:

He’s going to get coverage focus. Doesn’t the lack of other pass catchers scare anyone off him? Who’s going to stretch the field so he has room? I’m nervous about it. 

Was it a problem last year?

Lions WRs who received more snaps than Kenny Golladay in 2020 (who was injured the majority of the year):

  • Danny Amendola
  • Quintez Cephus
  • Marvin Hall
  • Mohammud Sanu

MJJ had a good four years in Detroit but he and Hall were the only vertical threats last year without Golladay (who has never been great at separation but he has great body control and wins 50/50 balls.) Is there really that much drop off in the 9 route / field stretcher department with Breshad Perriman and Tyrell Williams? They have both excelled as deep threats when healthy throughout their careers. Amon-Ra is my bet to emerge as the Slot and I think his production will surprise people, but the targets will probably be Hock by a mile (120 or so) and Swift/Williams may combine for that many looks (80+40.)

Detroit is not going to have a great offense, but they do have an excellent top 10 offensive line and should have a decent run game. Anthony Lynn is the OC and he has a history of figuring out ways to get his TE involved. Hock lined up in the slot 21% last year, I could see that increasing.

Good minicamp reports on the Goff/Hock connection. They're just slinging it in shorts, NBD, but they also worked out in Cali with a few other receivers before they came in for OTAs. They're doing everything you want to hear about from a new QB and star TE.

Hock will get his. He's a problem every week for teams.

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13 hours ago, BobbyLayne said:

Was it a problem last year?

Lions WRs who received more snaps than Kenny Golladay in 2020 (who was injured the majority of the year):

  • Danny Amendola
  • Quintez Cephus
  • Marvin Hall
  • Mohammud Sanu

MJJ had a good four years in Detroit but he and Hall were the only vertical threats last year without Golladay (who has never been great at separation but he has great body control and wins 50/50 balls.) Is there really that much drop off in the 9 route / field stretcher department with Breshad Perriman and Tyrell Williams? They have both excelled as deep threats when healthy throughout their careers. Amon-Ra is my bet to emerge as the Slot and I think his production will surprise people, but the targets will probably be Hock by a mile (120 or so) and Swift/Williams may combine for that many looks (80+40.)

Detroit is not going to have a great offense, but they do have an excellent top 10 offensive line and should have a decent run game. Anthony Lynn is the OC and he has a history of figuring out ways to get his TE involved. Hock lined up in the slot 21% last year, I could see that increasing.

Good minicamp reports on the Goff/Hock connection. They're just slinging it in shorts, NBD, but they also worked out in Cali with a few other receivers before they came in for OTAs. They're doing everything you want to hear about from a new QB and star TE.

Hock will get his. He's a problem every week for teams.

I’m not sure Perriman or TWill will be on the field and neither could possibly scare d-coordinators as much as MJ. OLine and running game are strong but Goff is no better than Stafford. 
 

I’ve loved Hoch, but I’m fading him this year. Targets will be there, I just don’t expect good results. Top ten? Sure. Top 5? I don’t see it. Hope I’m wrong, I like him as a player. 

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The Detroit Free Press' Dave Birkett said T.J. Hockensen is "headed for a big season." 

Birkett is the latest Detroit beat writer to highlight Hockensen as an emergent star in the Lions offense. Detroit coaches have also been bullish on the third-year tight end, who was fourth among tight ends last year with 67 receptions and third in receiving yards (723). Lions tight end coach Ben Johnson said in May that the "sky's the limit" for Hockensen in 2021. Hockensen, 23, the longest-tenured offensive skill position player in Detroit's offense, will likely absorb many of the targets vacated by the departure of Marvin Jones and Kenny Golladay. The fifth tight end off the draft board, Hockensen could thrive on volume alone in 2021. 

SOURCE: Freep.com 

Jun 11, 2021, 8:38 AM ET

 

 

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On 6/10/2021 at 9:53 AM, BobbyLayne said:

Was it a problem last year?

Lions WRs who received more snaps than Kenny Golladay in 2020 (who was injured the majority of the year):

  • Danny Amendola
  • Quintez Cephus
  • Marvin Hall
  • Mohammud Sanu

MJJ had a good four years in Detroit but he and Hall were the only vertical threats last year without Golladay (who has never been great at separation but he has great body control and wins 50/50 balls.) Is there really that much drop off in the 9 route / field stretcher department with Breshad Perriman and Tyrell Williams? They have both excelled as deep threats when healthy throughout their careers. Amon-Ra is my bet to emerge as the Slot and I think his production will surprise people, but the targets will probably be Hock by a mile (120 or so) and Swift/Williams may combine for that many looks (80+40.)

Detroit is not going to have a great offense, but they do have an excellent top 10 offensive line and should have a decent run game. Anthony Lynn is the OC and he has a history of figuring out ways to get his TE involved. Hock lined up in the slot 21% last year, I could see that increasing.

Good minicamp reports on the Goff/Hock connection. They're just slinging it in shorts, NBD, but they also worked out in Cali with a few other receivers before they came in for OTAs. They're doing everything you want to hear about from a new QB and star TE.

Hock will get his. He's a problem every week for teams.

Yes, there is a drop off in the field-stretcher position IMO (they may have speed but no one is going to shift coverage towards those guys), there's a drop off in QB, and I think you've got the Lynn thing backwards- I view his history as underutilizing his talented TE's.

Like Hock a lot, think he'll be good this year, but I think his "situation" has more of a chance at holding him back some than it does of unleashing his full potential.

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20 minutes ago, humpback said:

Yes, there is a drop off in the field-stretcher position IMO (they may have speed but no one is going to shift coverage towards those guys), there's a drop off in QB, and I think you've got the Lynn thing backwards- I view his history as underutilizing his talented TE's.

Like Hock a lot, think he'll be good this year, but I think his "situation" has more of a chance at holding him back some than it does of unleashing his full potential.

Opinions vary. Henry caught 160 balls in 4 years (missed all of 2018), he used Clay in Buffalo. He’s acutely aware Hock is both the most talented TE he’s ever had as an OC or HC, he’s also the best receiving option in the team.

I’ve posted in this forum at least 50 times this off-season Detroit has the worst WR room in the league - and #31 isn’t even close. Not gonna waste too many calories arguing the merits of  guys who are going to be replaced in the next two years.

But despite their intention to have a run heavy offense, there’s a high likelihood game script will force then to throw 600-625 times. Goff doesn’t have to be the perfect QB to compile 4.2K and toss 24TDs. When you look at their pace, expected plays, run/pass ratio, and where those targets are most likely to go, it’s clear Hock is in line to have a tremendous leap forward from last years breakout season.

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6 minutes ago, BobbyLayne said:

But despite their intention to have a run heavy offense, there’s a high likelihood game script will force then to throw 600-625 times. Goff doesn’t have to be the perfect QB to compile 4.2K and toss 24TDs. When you look at their pace, expected plays, run/pass ratio, and where those targets are most likely to go, it’s clear Hock is in line to have a tremendous leap forward from last years breakout season.

100% this. They can intend all they want. I'm sure they intend to win enough games to not get a top 3 pick, but that's probably not gonna happen. They will be losing often, they will have to throw, their best receiving weapon is Hockenson, he's one of the most talented young tight ends in the league, he looked good as a rookie and doubled his production in year 2, and apparently he's already got good chemistry with Goff. From a fantasy perspective, I don't see this as a bad situation at all. 

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9 hours ago, BobbyLayne said:

Opinions vary. Henry caught 160 balls in 4 years (missed all of 2018), he used Clay in Buffalo. He’s acutely aware Hock is both the most talented TE he’s ever had as an OC or HC, he’s also the best receiving option in the team.

I’ve posted in this forum at least 50 times this off-season Detroit has the worst WR room in the league - and #31 isn’t even close. Not gonna waste too many calories arguing the merits of  guys who are going to be replaced in the next two years.

But despite their intention to have a run heavy offense, there’s a high likelihood game script will force then to throw 600-625 times. Goff doesn’t have to be the perfect QB to compile 4.2K and toss 24TDs. When you look at their pace, expected plays, run/pass ratio, and where those targets are most likely to go, it’s clear Hock is in line to have a tremendous leap forward from last years breakout season.

He used Clay less in Buffalo than he was previously used in Miami, and Henry has been the "next breakout" TE candidate nearly every year yet his career high is 60 receptions and ~650 yards. Lynn historically has underutilized his TE's in relation to the rest of the league, so while opinions certainly vary, it's hard to argue that Lynn's a "plus" for Hock IMO.

Like I said, I like him and expect him to do well, no argument at all that he's going to get targets by default. I just disagree that Lynn or the WR and QB downgrades are a positive for him. In other words, I expect him to have a pretty big season, but IMO it would be even bigger with a better situation.

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9 hours ago, humpback said:

He used Clay less in Buffalo than he was previously used in Miami

holdup

Charles Clay was a former FB/H back who was thrust into a starting TE role by the Fins in 2013 when Dustin Keller had a season ending ACL injury. The result was a surprise 3rd yr breakout (100+ targets.) His last year in Miami he had 84 targets. In 2015 the Bills hired the Jets fired HC, Rex Ryan, who brought Lynn in as Assistant HC/RBs coach (same role he had in NY.) Clay was the big FA signing (5/$38M) and averaged 5.92 targets his first year, then 5.8 in 2016, the year Lynn became OC in the 3rd game of the year. He had one bad game under Lynn - his first - and thereafter was his usual average self. The following year (by which time Lynn was in SD he averaged 5.69 targets, and hung around in the league two more unproductive years.

____________

HH averaged 3.5 targets (w/ 8 TDs) as a rookie and then in the 4 years Anthony L was his HC:

4.4 targets/G, missed 2018, 6.3, 6.6

So basically his role increased every year. But he never became Antonio Gates so that’s on the HC? I get it, that’s a lot of draft capital (2nd round) for a TE and anyone who has owned knows how tantalizing he is: TE11, 12, N/A, TE8, TE15. Fantasy managers don’t have much esteem for players who overpromise and under deliver.

But maybe Hunter Henry is just what he is - a good but not great player. 

_____________

Lynn has been talking up Hock from the day he arrived in early February as OC.

Anyway, his OC - or his former TE Head Coach - view him as one of their primary weapons. From a fantasy perspective, I’m not sure we can ask for much more.

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In-house Lions reporter Tim Twentyman "wouldn't be the least bit surprised" if T.J. Hockenson leads the team in "targets, catches, receiving yards and receiving touchdowns this season."

Although it may not have felt this way to fantasy managers, Hockenson took a big step forward as a sophomore and is by far the best returning option on the roster. Joining for 2021 were free agents Tyrell Williams and Breshad Perriman alongside draft pick Amon-Ra St. Brown. Twentyman reports Hockenson and Jared Goff have already developed excellent chemistry in the red zone. Even with the steep quarterback downgrade in an offense that is going to be based on the run, Hockenson offers top-five upside at tight end. 

SOURCE: detroitlions.com 

Jun 12, 2021, 1:51 PM ET

 

 

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He's going to be insane this year, right?

100 targets, 67 receptions, 700 yards and 6 TD's was a solid sophomore campaign to build on.  The lions will probably not be good and pass a lot.  The team is pretty empty of receiving talent outside of him.  I think Amon Ra has a chance, but this is Hock's show.  The volume should be absolutely absurd with plenty coming in garbage time.  

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MLive's Kyle Meinke wrote that T.J. Hockenson has been the Lions "best offensive skill player" in camp.

Hockenson's target competition is weak. Breshad Perriman is on his seventh team since 2017. Tyrell Williams had his only 1,000 yard season back in 2016. The next two wide receivers on the depth chart, Quintez Cephus and Amon-Ra St. Brown, are both day three selections. "Best offensive skill player" was always going to come down to Hockenson or D'Andre Swift. Still, Meinke joins a chorus of Lions beat reporters who see a big season ahead for the third year player. Hockenson will see quite a bit more defensive attention than the typical tight end, but if he's up to that challenge, he could feast on underneath throws. Jared Goff's average depth of attempt was the fourth shallowest last season, ahead of only Alex Smith, Drew Brees and Nick Mullens.

RELATED: 

Breshad Perriman

, Tyrell Williams

SOURCE: Kyle Meinke on Twitter

Jul 31, 2021, 3:16 PM ET

 

 

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ESPN's Eric Woodyard said T.J. Hockenson is "building great chemistry" with Jared Goff and predicted the tight end will have 1,000 yards in 2021. 

Travis Kelce and Darren Waller were the only tight ends last year to eclipse the 1,000-yard mark. In 2019, Waller, Kelce, and George Kittle logged 1,000-yard seasons. In a 17-game season with a lack of target competition in a Detroit offense that could be forced into lots of pass-heavy game script, Hockensen should easily best the 723 receiving yards he compiled in 2020. Hockensen is a solid fifth or sixth round pick in 12-team leagues. He should be considered a top-5 tight end option in Week 1 against the 49ers. 

SOURCE: ESPN.com 

Sep 7, 2021, 10:03 AM ET

 

 

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  • Faust changed the title to TE T.J. Hockenson, DET

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