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TE Irv Smith Jr. - KC (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
Biabreakable
Footballguy
You think Zimmer or Kubiak will be fired?
I am not sure if either of those things would be a positive for Smith. The Kubiak offense uses the TE in the passing game a lot. 20% of the total targets this year.
I suppose if the offense were throwing the ball more that could help all of their WR opportunities but it might come at the expense of per play efficiency.
The Frankman
Footballguy
Faust
MVP
I think Zimmer and Kubiak are fairly safe. The utilization of Irv Smith Jr. at the start of the season left a lot to be desired especially once we saw what he was capable of doing later in the season. The Vikings are lacking game changing playmakers in their passing game after Adam Thielen and Justin Jefferson - so it just feels like a fresh coaching regime that is more imaginative in the play calling could perhaps do a better job unlocking more potential from Irv Smith Jr.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
Watch out Zimmer Faust does not approve of the direction of the offense.
The last couple of weeks Tyler Conklin has been a more reliable option than Smith as a receiver. One of Cousins interceptions maybe two were on plays where he is trying to get the ball to Smith who has dropped TD opportunities.
From my perspective Smith has performed really well as a blocker. Not so much as a receiver.
Irv Smith is still one of the youngest TE in the league.
The last couple of weeks Tyler Conklin has been a more reliable option than Smith as a receiver. One of Cousins interceptions maybe two were on plays where he is trying to get the ball to Smith who has dropped TD opportunities.
From my perspective Smith has performed really well as a blocker. Not so much as a receiver.
Irv Smith is still one of the youngest TE in the league.
Boston
Footballguy
Agreed...although when you look at the landscape of TEs I bet he gets drafted reasonably high as far as that position goes.
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I like Irv, he's a good candidate to break out or at least take a leap since especially since he's just going to turn 23 in camp next year but I do think people will overrate the impact of Rudoldph leaving.
Put another way I don't think Rudolph was a big factor last year with respect to being in Irv's way of breaking out. Injuries to Irv and low volume passing attack that funneled a heavy workload to the top two WR's were bigger contributors IMO.
Put another way I don't think Rudolph was a big factor last year with respect to being in Irv's way of breaking out. Injuries to Irv and low volume passing attack that funneled a heavy workload to the top two WR's were bigger contributors IMO.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Boston
Footballguy
Agreed...Rudolph was only 28-334-1 last year...it is on Smith to take his game to the next level and put himself in a spot where he is a weapon that the Vikings can't ignore.
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Yeah, the main reason I said Rudolph leaving was not a big factor is that after a few weeks Irv was getting starter snaps. He got hurt for a stretch of course were he missed games and got a little less snap counts but basically after a few weeks in the season he was seeing snaps consistent with a starter and you just pointed out Rudolph was hardly in his way.
It could easily be argued Rudolph leaving is a negative . I won't go there yet but the last few weeks of the year when Rudolph went down we saw Conklin get way more use then Rudolph and actually over the last 4 games of the year that Rudolph was out Conklin out targeted Irv 21 to 20 and was more consistently targeted.
Again I like Irv, he's not quite as good as a healthy young Jordan Reed but has a lot of similar tools and if I'm getting 80-90% of Reed in a healthier body I'm interested.
In some ways this situation reminds me of Jonnu last year. Many were calling for a breakout because Delanie was gone but Delanie barely registered the previous two seasons, he was not in any way holding back Jonnu. That's the case I believe with Rudolph to Irv last year.
Stinkin Ref
IBL Representative
on the other side.... might keep an eye on Rudolph....plodder type but some destinations could make him relevant in this TE landscape....
barackdhouse
Footballguy
I don't think he'll ever ascend to the top tier of TEs but I see him as having TE1 upside in that TE5-10 range or something that isn't sexy but is necessary chalk to have on your squad. Doesn't have to be him though, that kind of TE production might be found elsewhere or on your roster already.
I'm wondering what happens to his market now that Rudolph is gone and Irv is suddenly on more people's radar. I think most of us knew or expected Rudolph to be gone but I have this feeling there are Irv owners out there that only just now are thinking about moving him. I have to assume the price just went up, though, and I'm not sure I like his upside or floor enough to go there now.
I'm wondering what happens to his market now that Rudolph is gone and Irv is suddenly on more people's radar. I think most of us knew or expected Rudolph to be gone but I have this feeling there are Irv owners out there that only just now are thinking about moving him. I have to assume the price just went up, though, and I'm not sure I like his upside or floor enough to go there now.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
If I recall correctly a lot of Rudolphs production occurred when Smith was out with injury.Boston said:
You could likely add those meager numbers to Irvs stat line for 2021. Its not a lot but its something.
Irv Smith only had 43 targets last season in 13 games played. Rudolph had 37 last season.
If Smith absorbs those targets he would have 80 and that is enough volume that he might be in the top 12 in the 2021 season.
Mark Football
Footballguy
I just don't like hearing that it took til their third season to get serious about taking care of their body. That's a red flag for me.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
In redraft I like him as a late round backup. Right now his ECR is TE16 (FBGs has him TE14 in consensus rankings and TE19 in consensus projections), so if you have a deep draft - ours is 12 x 18 - nice one to pair with say Fant/Goedert/Higbee. I'm likely gonna wait on TE to load up at other positions. I normally take 1 QB 1 TE and get my DST and K off the WW before WK1 kickoff, but I might draft a backup this year. I think he has really good upside.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I don’t know if it implies he wasn’t taking care of his body before. Just seems he’s focused even more on his diet.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
The Prefrontal cortex - the executive area of the brain where we make reasoned decisions that take into account risk factors - is not fully developed until age 25. Males tend to develop later than females in this area. That's why we do dumb #### when we're in our late teens and early 20s; we literally don't think through consequences bc we're not really equipped to do so yet. For an elite athlete the sense they are bullet proof is heightened even more.
(general statement - Irv Smith is not elite from a RAS perspective)
He graded out really well as a rookie but actually saw a decline in his snap count last year. With the plodder moving on I'm thinking he'll have an increased role in 2021. But there are a slew of young TEs to choose from in that TE 12-18 range: Smith Jr, Sample, Kmet, Trautman, maybe even forgotten guys like Herndon or Jarwin. Looking at situation and opportunity I favor the Vikings guy but it's not a mortal lock.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Yeah totally one of those flyer TEs for redraft and there’s maybe 1 of 10 of them who hits. He’s more interesting from a dynasty perspective. He’s going to have a rare combo of youth and experience. He’s always going to be a move TE but what he lacks in size, he makes up for with really good speed for the position. We think about the time it takes TEs to develop, if Irv does he will be hitting his stride at such a young age. He’s younger than Pat Friermuth but he’s already got 2 years of NFL development on him.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Yeah, he was the youngest player in the league two years ago. We think of him as a move TE and he does have a good skill set but my fear is he's also a really good blocker. From a FF perspective, there's always the danger he'll be another OJH bc he is a really good all around player.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
OJH is a weird one. Crazy athlete but wasn’t very productive at Bama. Irv was more productive there at a much younger age. OJH was 22 his first season in the NFL. He also started to flash his 2nd year and it looked like it was going to happen for him and then Arians came and that just seemed to be the end of it. One problem I see with OJH is he seems kind of clumsy. He’s a great athlete but he seems to struggle catching the ball at times, doesn’t seem natural once he has the ball. Something about him always struck me as off.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
I largely only play FFPC redrafts, which is TE premium, but in those he is going in around the 7th to 8th round as TE 11. Before the latest blurb. Not sure how that translates to regular PPR leagues but his price is just a little higher than what many may be expecting.BobbyLayne said:
I mean sure the players themselves should be responsible for their own diets, but why is he just now finding out from his college aged cousin about appropriate nutrition for an athlete of his size? Shouldn't the Vikings already have this stuff as a priority for their multi million $ players?
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Where did you hear that?Mark Football said:
From what Irv Smith said his aunt or cousin is a nutritionist and has been working with him on that for a ,long time now. Her input on his diet increased this offseason as he began to be more diligent about this in the offseason but its not a new thing and not worthy of any kind of red flag.
From what I am hearing Irv Smith has added good weight and has become stronger this offseason, as I Ilove80s points out Smith is only 22 years old now. He is still growing.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
Irv Smith had an injury and missed 3 games last season, if you account for that his playing time did not decrease from his rookie season. His snap counts are going to increase in 2021 though because Rudolph is now gone. The Vikings will still use a lot of 2 TE sets with Tyler Conklin as the 2nd TE.BobbyLayne said:
Biabreakable
Footballguy
When I say diligent about sticking to his nutritional plan what that means is fewer shrimp poor boys (which are very good and hard to pass up) than he was consuming previously. That is what Irv Smith said about it.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
For folks in really deep leagues there will be a camp battle between Tyler Conklin and Brandon Dillon for the 2nd TE spot but Conklin has the inside track and is expected to win that job. Conklin has played well and in a scenario where Irv Smith were unavailable Conklin would be a good player to pick up.
I was listening to Onebar and Lupugus (Vikings podcasters) the other day and they brought up an interesting point that teams will be trying to double team Jefferson a lot more in the 2021 season which may open things up for the Vikings to use Irv Smith more in the passing game as a response to that. I think that makes sense.
Very high expectations for Smith last offseason too which is why some of us may feel disappointed with Smiths production so far.
I was listening to Onebar and Lupugus (Vikings podcasters) the other day and they brought up an interesting point that teams will be trying to double team Jefferson a lot more in the 2021 season which may open things up for the Vikings to use Irv Smith more in the passing game as a response to that. I think that makes sense.
Very high expectations for Smith last offseason too which is why some of us may feel disappointed with Smiths production so far.
Mark Football
Footballguy
Right here. Straight from the article.
'Smith said he's feeling spry and "putting the best gas" in the tank after formulating a nutrition plan for the first time ahead of his third NFL season.'
Also I don't like when the coach makes a specific quote about how he came to otas in great shape. Why does that even need to be said? No one is saying that about Kelce or Kittle or Gronk. It's just expected because that's what they do. Believe me I want Smith to be good. He's my only TE besides Tomas. I'm just getting a little bit of a Rashaad Penny vibe from him.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Okay here is the interview I listened to last night so you can get the information right from the horses mouth.
An often injured guy that has underwhelmed his entire career and never shown any hint of being good?
Mark Football
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Really odd comparison. I can't think of a single thing they have in common other then playing pro football.
Mark Football
Footballguy
My comparison was that they both took 2 years before they decided to get serious about taking care of their body.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Again, I don't think hooking up with a personal dietitian in year 3= did not take care of body for 2 years. I think you reading way too much into a fluff piece where Irv talks about what he has done over the offseason to improve.
Mark Football
Footballguy
These wealthy NFL players can definitely afford a few of those, that much is certain.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
Puked in my mouth a little when I read that yesterday. I only have him in a couple spots but that is a yukky blurb.
