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Why are President Trump's Tax Returns Important? (2 Viewers)

I know he took advantage of it. And he has every right to use whatever tax laws he can as we all do.

What is infuriating and highly shady and has red flags all over the place....is the simple fact he refuses to disclose his tax returns to the very people he serves.

The American Public and citizens of our country.

He simply has no respect for the office and to us as citizens. Painfully obvious. 

Disclose them Mr President. What are you afraid of?
I don’t disagree with you on the red flags, I think that just speaks to how poor the other option was and many in our country not satisfied with that and Obama’s 8 years that were painful for many.....especially small businesses owners. I’m not sure Trump really wants to be re-elected, I think you should be free soon. 😁

 
sho nuff said:
What I will never understand...is how "owning the libs" or whatever phenomena about how much you don't like the democrats...why this man?  Why this guy who is almost the antithesis of a Christian in how he has lived his life...why this man, who is also barely anything resembling what a conservative is/was...why is he the hill to die on?  
#scoreboard

3-6

 
Tax laws have been roughly the same for quite awhile, were you worried about this before or just a Trump thing? Not sure you have a handle on it but would review tax laws, would be curious specifically what laws you are seeing proof he is breaking ?
If Joe Biden had avoided paying taxes, even by legal means, yes, I would be annoyed. Same goes for anyone. And I mentioned no such argument of him breaking any laws.

I hope you can appreciate how ridiculous Trump looks here though. He railed against Obama for "only paying" a 20% effective rate. He called himself a billionaire while it turns out he is a negative millionaire. He said he would release his taxes after the audit but said that there was nothing of interest in there anyway.

 
I don’t disagree with you on the red flags, I think that just speaks to how poor the other option was and many in our country not satisfied with that and Obama’s 8 years that were painful for many.....especially small businesses owners. I’m not sure Trump really wants to be re-elected, I think you should be free soon. 😁
Are you able to give a few practical examples of what Obama policies were problematic for you (or other small businesses) and how they have been fixed?

 
Are you able to give a few practical examples of what Obama policies were problematic for you (or other small businesses) and how they have been fixed?
I could in other threads, why don’t we stay on topic and you can specify the tax laws we have proof that we’re broken?

 
I could in other threads, why don’t we stay on topic and you can specify the tax laws we have proof that we’re broken?
for one thing, i haven't said anything about any tax laws being broken or not.

but I am in agreement that it belongs in a separate thread.  just something that i have generally been trying to learn more about and it stood out.

 
Ann Coulter @AnnCoulter 12h

I don't think the conservative take on @realDonaldTrump

paying no taxes should be: BECAUSE HE'S SMART!

I've paid nearly 50% of my income in taxes, year after year, and any system that allows billionaires to pay ZERO is unspeakable corrupt. 

How about changing it, Democrats?


:mellow:

Wow, didn't expect that from Ann Coulter.

 
Money laundering operations report inflated earnings on paper, not huge losses.
That's assuming that the golf courses are the only entity involved. Money inflows to the courses in cash and comes out in other real estate holdings and "consulting fees:, etc...  That's how Michael Cohen paid Stormy Daniels.

 
Jan. 2019: “An Inherited Money Dude from Queens County”: How Unseen Candidate Characteristics Affect Voter Perceptions

We examine the effect of biographical knowledge on voters' assessments of leaders. Studies showing that voters infer traits from candidate characteristics focus on attributes such as race, gender and incumbency, which are visible to even poorly-informed voters. Given voters' limited knowledge, we argue that misperceptions regarding other attributes underlie assessments of candidates. Focusing on President Trump, we find via a national survey that many Americans are unaware that he was born into great wealth. This misperception increases support for Trump, mediated through beliefs that he is both empathetic and good at business. We supplement our observational analysis with an experiment treating respondents with information regarding the role Trump's father played in his career. This information leads respondents to rate the president more negatively on both empathy and business ability. These findings suggest that correcting information about candidate characteristics can change the minds of even loyal partisans.

 
Ann Coulter @AnnCoulter 12h

I don't think the conservative take on @realDonaldTrump

paying no taxes should be: BECAUSE HE'S SMART!

I've paid nearly 50% of my income in taxes, year after year, and any system that allows billionaires to pay ZERO is unspeakable corrupt. 

How about changing it, Democrats?


:mellow:

Wow, didn't expect that from Ann Coulter.
I assume the 50% is total amount. 

But yeah, when the legislative and executive is D, we should expect some reforms. How much is a question. I don't think there will be BIG changes, but perhaps a bit for capital gains and write-offs.

 
I have never understood this.  Would a different Republican leader have had less appointments?  Are we giving Trump credit for good timing with justices that retired and died on his watch?  It baffles me that what some consider his biggest accomplishment comes with no effort or leadership on his part.  Just dumb luck.
It may be dumb luck, but it's still his largest accomplishment and that's something that should give us all pause.  I don't have a problem with the current nomination and I didn't have a problem with Gorsuch either.  Kavanaugh's another issue, but that's done too.  Reality is, his biggest accomplishment is going to be one that literally any other GOP President was going to be able to accomplish as well.  Knowing that literally any other GOP President was going to be able to do the same thing, people have to ask themselves if the baggage unique to Trump was worth it.  I can't get in the minds of those answering "yes" to that calculus, but those people sure exist.  

 
Ann Coulter @AnnCoulter 12h

I don't think the conservative take on @realDonaldTrump

paying no taxes should be: BECAUSE HE'S SMART!

I've paid nearly 50% of my income in taxes, year after year, and any system that allows billionaires to pay ZERO is unspeakable corrupt. 

How about changing it, Democrats?


:mellow:

Wow, didn't expect that from Ann Coulter.
Well except for the part about calling on Democrats to change longstanding GOP policy while the GOP is in charge...

 
I don’t disagree with you on the red flags, I think that just speaks to how poor the other option was and many in our country not satisfied with that and Obama’s 8 years that were painful for many.....especially small businesses owners. I’m not sure Trump really wants to be re-elected, I think you should be free soon. 😁
Dude, the GOP had plenty of options in the 2016 primary and instead they went with "red flags guy".  They had an option in 2020 to hold a primary.  The GOP chose to stick with "red flags guy".

Maybe we shouldn't give red flag guy another chance.

 
Dude, the GOP had plenty of options in the 2016 primary and instead they went with "red flags guy".  They had an option in 2020 to hold a primary.  The GOP chose to stick with "red flags guy".

Maybe we shouldn't give red flag guy another chance.
Several of them had my vote over Hillary...not even close.  Cruz being a notable exception.  That would have been another vote for Johnson from me.

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
No. It's really easy to pay nothing in income taxes -- just don't make any money. The goal for most businessmen, though, usually includes making a profit.
profit <> taxable income.     quite different

 
Ann Coulter @AnnCoulter 12h

I don't think the conservative take on @realDonaldTrump

paying no taxes should be: BECAUSE HE'S SMART!

I've paid nearly 50% of my income in taxes, year after year, and any system that allows billionaires to pay ZERO is unspeakable corrupt. 

How about changing it, Democrats?


:mellow:

Wow, didn't expect that from Ann Coulter.
She badmouths Trump a lot.     Also thinks that Stephen Miller is the devil incarnate.      Was also one of the first while the Republican primaries were still raging in the '16 cycle to dare come out and state that Trump had the best shot of rising from the field.    Of course she was mocked and laughed into oblivion for doing so.  

 
I have never understood this.  Would a different Republican leader have had less appointments?  Are we giving Trump credit for good timing with justices that retired and died on his watch?  It baffles me that what some consider his biggest accomplishment comes with no effort or leadership on his part.  Just dumb luck.
The first being  a complete gift from McConnell.  And as I said...even if Hillary had one...does anyone believe Mitch is allowing anything other than a moderate candidate nominated by a dem get confirmed in this Senate?

 
I have never understood this.  Would a different Republican leader have had less appointments?  Are we giving Trump credit for good timing with justices that retired and died on his watch?  It baffles me that what some consider his biggest accomplishment comes with no effort or leadership on his part.  Just dumb luck.
Good point.    Had Cruz, Carson, Jeb, Rubio or any of the '16 primary field ended up as Prez, they likely would have nominated 3 SC Justices with very similar profiles, so yes, this is mostly timing and fate in terms of Trump. 

The one thing you do have to credit him for, or really his campaign team, was the pre-release during the '16 campaign of his list that he would select Justices from.     As far as tactics, this was a master stroke, and likely has already set a new precedent for future presidential candidates.     Biden even indicated he would follow suit in June, but has already reversed course on this.     

 
I have never understood this.  Would a different Republican leader have had less appointments?  Are we giving Trump credit for good timing with justices that retired and died on his watch?  It baffles me that what some consider his biggest accomplishment comes with no effort or leadership on his part.  Just dumb luck.
Good point.    Had Cruz, Carson, Jeb, Rubio or any of the '16 primary field ended up as Prez, they likely would have nominated 3 SC Justices with very similar profiles, so yes, this is mostly timing and fate in terms of Trump. 

The one thing you do have to credit him for, or really his campaign team, was the pre-release during the '16 campaign of his list that he would select Justices from.     As far as tactics, this was a master stroke, and likely has already set a new precedent for future presidential candidates.     Biden even indicated he would follow suit in June, but has already reversed course on this.     
But Kavanaugh wasn't on the list. 

 
ok, I've come around on this issue a little bit.  I am the furthest thing from a tax expert so if I'm mistaken, I hope someone corrects me.

The only way to avoid federal income tax is to have your deductions be greater than your taxable income.  This is done by minimizing income and maximizing deductions.  Pretty basic stuff, right? 

  1. You can maximize deductions by counting everything as a business expense, and when you consider your personal brand as a business, pretty much everything can be a business expense.  Haircuts & clothes?  have to maintain a public image.  Golfing?  obviously he is doing business while on the links.  Own a piece of property?  Well, that's an investment property and therefore all taxes, upkeep, etc are business expenses and therefore, deductible.  This is an old racket that a hell of a lot of people take advantage of that typical W2 employees know nothing about.
  2. If you have a big business loss one year, you can carry that over for multiple years.  This only works until the carryover loss is depleted.
  3. Another way is by owning businesses that lose money that offset your profitable businesses.  It's possible that the losses could be on paper only - depreciation, etc.  I imagine there are limits on how long you can keep this going.  
I imagine Trump has been employing all three tactics, playing hard and fast with the IRS rules.  I'm sure he has a team of tax attorneys ready to argue everything is 100% legal; the IRS may not agree.  Still, items 2 and 3 above require losing money, and lots of it.  That's inescapable.  The takeaway should be that in order to not pay taxes, you have to be losing as much money as you make.  

 
The Z Machine said:
So he paid more than $750 in federal taxes in those years?  I'm not following.
INCOME taxes

if you have enough writeoff's and spend enough money in such ways - you too can be income tax free

but you're going to spend a lot of money and all that you buy will be taxed - so you ARE paying taxes 

 
maybe if Trump didn't pay goods and services taxes, property taxes, real estate taxes, business fees and taxes and all the other millions he pays in taxes .... maybe THEN the Democrats would have a leg to stand on

has anyone mentioned the $450,000 he GIVES away from his Presidential income? 

 
Yes, just like everyone else in this country. What does that have to do with his federal income tax?
because he pays a massive amount MORE because he BUYS a lot more 

if everyone complaining about Trump's income would spend way more than they made, they too would pay way higher taxes on the property they own but way less on income taxes

Charlie Kirk

@charliekirk11

·

13h

Net worth before running for President:

The Trumps - $4.5 billion

The Obamas - $3 million

The Clintons - $480,000

Today:

The Trumps - $3 billion

The Obamas - $70 million

The Clintons - $120 million

And the media is obsessing over *Trump's* tax returns?

 
maybe if Trump didn't pay goods and services taxes, property taxes, real estate taxes, business fees and taxes and all the other millions he pays in taxes .... maybe THEN the Democrats would have a leg to stand on

has anyone mentioned the $450,000 he GIVES away from his Presidential income? 
Yeah he is a real saint.

LMFAO.

 
because he pays a massive amount MORE because he BUYS a lot more 

if everyone complaining about Trump's income would spend way more than they made, they too would pay way higher taxes on the property they own but way less on income taxes

Charlie Kirk

@charliekirk11

·

13h

Net worth before running for President:

The Trumps - $4.5 billion

The Obamas - $3 million

The Clintons - $480,000

Today:

The Trumps - $3 billion

The Obamas - $70 million

The Clintons - $120 million

And the media is obsessing over *Trump's* tax returns?
Seriously.  You still believe he is worth anything close to that after everything that has come out?

 
Bernie:

While Donald Trump paid just $750 in U.S. federal income taxes during the first year of his presidency, he paid over $317,000 in taxes to India, Panama and the Philippines.

How's that for America first?

🤔

 
the missing chapter from Art of the Deal:

Fastest Way to Make a Million Dollars

1. start with a Billion dollars....

 
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maybe if Trump didn't pay goods and services taxes, property taxes, real estate taxes, business fees and taxes and all the other millions he pays in taxes .... maybe THEN the Democrats would have a leg to stand on

has anyone mentioned the $450,000 he GIVES away from his Presidential income? 
Lets see:

Taxpayer cost of Trump Golfing in office:  $144,000,000

Trump Salary Donations: $2,000,000

Its close, but I think Trump is costing the US taxpayers, just a little bit more than he is putting into the system.

 
Its close, but I think Trump is costing the US taxpayers, just a little bit more than he is putting into the system.
Just like states and their relative contributions to the federal budget and then what actually gets spent in their states.  Some are net drains on the federal coffers.

 
ok, I've come around on this issue a little bit.  I am the furthest thing from a tax expert so if I'm mistaken, I hope someone corrects me.

The only way to avoid federal income tax is to have your deductions be greater than your taxable income.  This is done by minimizing income and maximizing deductions.  Pretty basic stuff, right? 

  1. You can maximize deductions by counting everything as a business expense, and when you consider your personal brand as a business, pretty much everything can be a business expense.  Haircuts & clothes?  have to maintain a public image.  Golfing?  obviously he is doing business while on the links.  Own a piece of property?  Well, that's an investment property and therefore all taxes, upkeep, etc are business expenses and therefore, deductible.  This is an old racket that a hell of a lot of people take advantage of that typical W2 employees know nothing about.
  2. If you have a big business loss one year, you can carry that over for multiple years.  This only works until the carryover loss is depleted.
  3. Another way is by owning businesses that lose money that offset your profitable businesses.  It's possible that the losses could be on paper only - depreciation, etc.  I imagine there are limits on how long you can keep this going.  
I imagine Trump has been employing all three tactics, playing hard and fast with the IRS rules.  I'm sure he has a team of tax attorneys ready to argue everything is 100% legal; the IRS may not agree.  Still, items 2 and 3 above require losing money, and lots of it.  That's inescapable.  The takeaway should be that in order to not pay taxes, you have to be losing as much money as you make.  
#1:

Haircuts, clothing, makeup/wardrobe are all iffy deductions.  Theoretically they can be deductible, but it's a complex issue that can't be easily broken down into a 1-2 sentence blurb.

I think most reasonable accountants would argue that golfing could be considered "meals and entertainment", and 50% deductible at best.  Country club memberships are not tax-deductible.  Though I guess when you own the club like he does, you probably don't pay dues anyway.

If the piece of property is legitimately an income-producing property (or is otherwise held out for the production of income), then yes those expenses are deductible.  Subject to all sorts of rules - passive loss rules, etc.  But anyone in this thread could go out and buy a rental property and take those same deductions.

#2:

Yes, this is generally correct.  There are limitations and calculations but the gist is correct.

#3:

Yes, this is also correct.  That said, this is a much more complicated topic than can be addressed in a quick blurb.  Long story short, he needs have skin-in-the-game, for lack of a better term, in order to use those losses.  When you say "limits on how long you can keep this going" - I'm not sure what you mean by that.  If your company literally loses money every single year, legitimately, you could theoretically continue to take those deductions every year.  But it raises the question as a business person of - "am I throwing good money after bad?"  At what point do you cut your losses and walk away?  There's an old saying that you don't let the tax tail wag the dog.  Sure, those deductions are juicy on a tax return - but you're hemorrhaging money every year.

 
@Steve Tasker or other financials guys - any plausible explanations other than what this guy is saying in this thread?
This is what someone was getting at on the previous page about the golf courses potentially being money laundering fronts.  I think what the reporter saying makes a lot of sense, but there's really no way for us to know by just looking at financials like this.  Like the tax impropriety questions, there's a lot of smoke here, but you're not gonna be able to find the fire without a lot more information than is publicly available.  It's all speculative.

 
Seriously.  You still believe he is worth anything close to that after everything that has come out?
did you totally miss it ?

Trump has reportedly LESS money, Obama/Clintons reportedly vastly MORE ........ and people are worried about Trump

its comical - really

 
...they too would be hopelessly in debt.
exactly

so why worry so much about Trump's lack of wealth, or his expenditures, or how his accountants have the tax codes working for him etc? 

its only news because Democrats need to attack that and freak people out, make people hate etc. Focus on personal instead of policy

pretty low down IMO

 
more losses to write off
YES !!! 

IRS weaves tax laws to encourage investing, giving, donating, building, buying, spending .............. why would anyone get mad when people uses those tax laws? 

again - its a personal attack to inject hatred and division - its another mud sling hoping it'll stick - its Democrats 101

 
#1:

Haircuts, clothing, makeup/wardrobe are all iffy deductions.  Theoretically they can be deductible, but it's a complex issue that can't be easily broken down into a 1-2 sentence blurb.

I think most reasonable accountants would argue that golfing could be considered "meals and entertainment", and 50% deductible at best.  Country club memberships are not tax-deductible.  Though I guess when you own the club like he does, you probably don't pay dues anyway.

If the piece of property is legitimately an income-producing property (or is otherwise held out for the production of income), then yes those expenses are deductible.  Subject to all sorts of rules - passive loss rules, etc.  But anyone in this thread could go out and buy a rental property and take those same deductions.

#2:

Yes, this is generally correct.  There are limitations and calculations but the gist is correct.

#3:

Yes, this is also correct.  That said, this is a much more complicated topic than can be addressed in a quick blurb.  Long story short, he needs have skin-in-the-game, for lack of a better term, in order to use those losses.  When you say "limits on how long you can keep this going" - I'm not sure what you mean by that.  If your company literally loses money every single year, legitimately, you could theoretically continue to take those deductions every year.  But it raises the question as a business person of - "am I throwing good money after bad?"  At what point do you cut your losses and walk away?  There's an old saying that you don't let the tax tail wag the dog.  Sure, those deductions are juicy on a tax return - but you're hemorrhaging money every year.
:goodposting:

Thank you for the tax expertise much needed in this thread. 

 
And, this is the guy you want running the country?

He is driving it into the ground.  Even he probably wants Biden to win, and help bail himself out
LOL

uh .... you were NOT serious were you? For 3 years everyone has talked about Trump brand and him helping himself out .... and now its about how Trump is losing money and not as wealthy as he says 

I wish the left would make up their minds !! 

Yes, Trump is the guy I want to run this country for the next 4 years. Economy was booming, record stock market, solid foreign policy moves, supporting military, police, as American a President as we've had in decades, huge job growth and unemployment .... only a world wide pandemic put a glitch into one of the biggest 4 year stretches of growth the USA has ever seen

you bet - I want 4 more great years of what we had, it'll be yuge

 
Yes, Trump is the guy I want to run this country for the next 4 years. Economy was booming, record stock market, solid foreign policy moves, supporting military, police, as American a President as we've had in decades
You mean because of all the fast food?

 
again - its a personal attack to inject hatred and division - its another mud sling hoping it'll stick - its Democrats 101
As opposed to the - Obama was born in a different country, Biden is suffering from dementia, Hunter Biden has gotten paid billions - kind of attacks from  your side?

 
#1:

Haircuts, clothing, makeup/wardrobe are all iffy deductions.  Theoretically they can be deductible, but it's a complex issue that can't be easily broken down into a 1-2 sentence blurb.

I think most reasonable accountants would argue that golfing could be considered "meals and entertainment", and 50% deductible at best.  Country club memberships are not tax-deductible.  Though I guess when you own the club like he does, you probably don't pay dues anyway.

If the piece of property is legitimately an income-producing property (or is otherwise held out for the production of income), then yes those expenses are deductible.  Subject to all sorts of rules - passive loss rules, etc.  But anyone in this thread could go out and buy a rental property and take those same deductions.

#2:

Yes, this is generally correct.  There are limitations and calculations but the gist is correct.

#3:

Yes, this is also correct.  That said, this is a much more complicated topic than can be addressed in a quick blurb.  Long story short, he needs have skin-in-the-game, for lack of a better term, in order to use those losses.  When you say "limits on how long you can keep this going" - I'm not sure what you mean by that.  If your company literally loses money every single year, legitimately, you could theoretically continue to take those deductions every year.  But it raises the question as a business person of - "am I throwing good money after bad?"  At what point do you cut your losses and walk away?  There's an old saying that you don't let the tax tail wag the dog.  Sure, those deductions are juicy on a tax return - but you're hemorrhaging money every year.
on #3 - business losses - how possible is it that the losses are on paper only, and don't really affect the amount of money in the bank?  that is, depreciation is a loss on paper only.  If I depreciate the value of a car, on paper it's worth less next year than it was this year but it really doesn't affect my bank account.

 
The one thing you do have to credit him for, or really his campaign team, was the pre-release during the '16 campaign of his list that he would select Justices from.
That "list" was the one given him by the Federalist Society....it's the same list they give to all the GOP Presidential nominees :mellow:  

Were you actually under the impression he made the list up himself?  I'd bet my life savings he knew who less than 10% of the people were on that list.

 
Ann Coulter @AnnCoulter 12h

I don't think the conservative take on @realDonaldTrump

paying no taxes should be: BECAUSE HE'S SMART!

I've paid nearly 50% of my income in taxes, year after year, and any system that allows billionaires to pay ZERO is unspeakable corrupt. 

How about changing it, Democrats?


:mellow:

Wow, didn't expect that from Ann Coulter.
Neither party is truly interested in changing this.  It's an easy fix, and it has nothing to do with incremental tax rates.

 

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