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2019 NBA Playoffs Thread: Toronto Raptors win NBA title #1.33


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21 minutes ago, tjnc09 said:

Basically the rule was created to prevent injuries, but the Rockets are willing to intentionally increase the chance of injuries for more free throw opportunities.  

Which is why Harden should be called for a foul on those plays.  It's an offensive foul.

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1 hour ago, thecatch said:

Good clip looking at Harden’s foul-seeking on 3s. 

Gross.

The good news is that Chris Paul turns 34 next week and Kevin Durant is hopefully leaving the Warriors this summer.  Hopefully those two things will make the Rockets more of a fringe contender and will bring the Warriors back to the pack at least. I think the next few seasons of the NBA are gonna be a lot more fun than the last few seasons.

Edited by TobiasFunke
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9 minutes ago, Alex P Keaton said:

Which is why Harden should be called for a foul on those plays.  It's an offensive foul.

I agree.  If the spirit of the rule is to ensure safety for the players then the defender should have a right to land as well.  Kicking out your legs in an unnatural motion to exploit a flawed rule is a danger to both sides.

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37 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

Gross.

The good news is that Chris Paul turns 34 next week and Kevin Durant is hopefully leaving the Warriors this summer.  Hopefully those two things will make the Rockets more of a fringe contender and will bring the Warriors back to the pack at least. I think the next few seasons of the NBA are gonna be a lot more fun than the last few seasons.

Whatever causes these teams to go back to playing basketball - y'know the one that's like soccer with your hands where you work the ball around to get a guy open and communicate schemes to stop others from scoring on you - is fine w me.

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5 minutes ago, tjnc09 said:

I still don't think Durant leaves.  Why risk a great thing?

The reason he went to the Dubs in the first place is that Jerry West told him that people werent gonna label him an alltimer til he got a title so go get a title, then do what you want. But he immediately got #### for frontrunning, so he's gotta do sumn else. He'd do a LeBron and go home, but DC cant afford him and he'd hafta play with the Ghost of John Wall. So he's gonna be the 1st one in the door (unless Zion gets there first) on a bad team back east in NY and have them build a champ team around him.

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Just now, tjnc09 said:

I still don't think Durant leaves.  Why risk a great thing?

What's the risk?  He'll have three titles in a couple months. There has to be marginal return on those at some point, especially doing it with the same teammates. They're the greatest team in the history of the game, and anyone who doesn't already acknowledge that never will. And if he stays his legacy will be exactly what it is right now- an all-time great whose greatness is difficult to fully understand and appreciate because he's been surrounded by far more talent than any of the other greats of the game. A significant portion of fans will always see him as the guy who took the easy way out instead of taking on a new and greater challenge.

If he leaves, however, there's no ceiling as far as his legacy goes. He'd become the MVP favorite for the next 2-3 seasons IMO (I think he's currently the best player in the league), likely his last chance at that since he's already 30, and every one of those you win boosts your legacy like nothing else can.  He's not winning any MVPs in the Bay area unless Curry gets hurt and misses a whole season. He'll shed the "cupcake" narrative if he wins elsewhere too. Imagine what it does to the perception of Durant he wins a title or even just brings the Finals to Madison Square Garden. Also if he does that he gets to live in, and be the hero of, NYC. I love the Bay Area, but nobody on the East Coast grows up dreaming of becoming a Bay Area legend.

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57 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

What's the risk?  He'll have three titles in a couple months. There has to be marginal return on those at some point, especially doing it with the same teammates. They're the greatest team in the history of the game, and anyone who doesn't already acknowledge that never will. And if he stays his legacy will be exactly what it is right now- an all-time great whose greatness is difficult to fully understand and appreciate because he's been surrounded by far more talent than any of the other greats of the game. A significant portion of fans will always see him as the guy who took the easy way out instead of taking on a new and greater challenge.

If he leaves, however, there's no ceiling as far as his legacy goes. He'd become the MVP favorite for the next 2-3 seasons IMO (I think he's currently the best player in the league), likely his last chance at that since he's already 30, and every one of those you win boosts your legacy like nothing else can.  He's not winning any MVPs in the Bay area unless Curry gets hurt and misses a whole season. He'll shed the "cupcake" narrative if he wins elsewhere too. Imagine what it does to the perception of Durant he wins a title or even just brings the Finals to Madison Square Garden. Also if he does that he gets to live in, and be the hero of, NYC. I love the Bay Area, but nobody on the East Coast grows up dreaming of becoming a Bay Area legend.

What if he doesn't win a title?  That scenario is a lot worse (and likely) for him than going somewhere else winning a ring.  It is extremely difficult even as hypothetically the best player ever.  There would then be "proof" from the critics that he couldn't win a title on two+ different teams.

The Knicks today are awful.  Even if Durant joins up with another superstar in MSG, there is no guarantee they are finals contenders or another super team is formed elsewhere.   For example, the Clippers are a very good team with 57.5m in cap space next year.  Nobody has any clue what will happen in free agency - look at the Lakers debacle last year.

 Side note: the Clippers are the one team I worry about him joining

If he stays with the Warriors, it's a fairly easy road for the next 1-3 years.  He knows what he is getting in teammates.  No guessing.  No uncertainty.  And the Bay Area is not what it was 20 years ago.  Brand new stadium next year and an area/owners with little regard for money.

 

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If Durant's priority is basketball, he should stay with the Warriors.

If Durant's priority is basketball and he wants his best shot at winning a title elsewhere, I think that's the Clippers.  Jerry West, talent, cap space, and benefit of LA.

If Durant wants to be LeBron and prioritize 200 TV and movie projects instead of basketball, then I agree NY is in the mix with the LA teams.  Perhaps Brooklyn too.

 

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Just now, tjnc09 said:

What if he doesn't win a title?  That scenario is a lot worse (and likely) for him than going somewhere else winning a ring.  It is extremely difficult even as hypothetically the best player ever.  There would then be "proof" from the critics that he couldn't win a title on two+ different teams.

The Knicks today are awful.  Even if Durant joins up with another superstar in MSG, there is no guarantee they are even finals contenders or another super team is formed elsewhere.   For example, the Clippers are a very good team with 57.5m in cap space next year.  Nobody has any clue what will happen in free agency - look at the Lakers debacle last year.

 Side note: the Clippers are the one team I worry about him joining

If he stays with the Warriors, it's a fairly easy road for the next 1-3 years.  He knows what he is getting in teammates.  No guessing.  No uncertainty.  And the Bay Area is not what it was 20 years ago.  Brand new stadium next year and an area/owners with little regard for money.

 

Meh.  Like I said, he'll already have three. Obviously it's impossible to know since we're not in his shoes or even remotely aware what its like to be an NBA player. But I'm not even sure the marginal benefit to him winning another one eclipses the benefit to his legacy of playing elsewhere even if he never reaches the Finals again. A ton of NBA fans see his decision to join a 73 win team as cowardly, and even more fans don't appreciate how great he is because it's difficult to evaluate a player's true greatness when they play on an all-star team that allows them to skirt some of the problems that other all-time greats face. That will always stain his legacy unless he makes another move.

LeBron is the obvious comp here- fans warmed to him when he moved to Cleveland, but even before that they started to warm to him when it became clear that Wade's skills were fading rapidly and Bosh was great but not a superstar, meaning he was still dealing with those problems and still had to overcome substantial hurdles to win, he couldn't just coast to a ring. It makes the narrative more compelling. If Curry was gonna disappear or Klay and Draymond were shipping out the same thing could happen for KD at Golden State, but that doesn't seem likely (correct? I honestly don't know).

He has every right to stay or go anywhere he wants, of course. But he'll never be considered one of the all-time greats (I'm talking Magic/Bird level, where I think he belongs) if he plays the next couple years with Steph, Klay and Draymond. That's just how it is. Whether that's important to him, :shrug:

 

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The NBA’s last two minute report says that the no-call on Harden was correct.  There were three missed calls during the last two minutes, however.

https://www.nba.com/article/2019/04/29/l2m-report-game-1-warriors-rockets

The NBA's Last-Two Minute report says there were three incorrect non-calls in Game 1 of the Western Conference semifinals between the Golden State Warriors and Houston Rockets. 

However, the 3-pointer that James Harden took with 10.1 seconds left that could have tied the game was ruled a correct non-call by the NBA. Per the NBA's Last Two Minute report, the ruling was correct because: "Harden (HOU) draws Green (GSW) into the air during his shot attempt. Green jumps in front of Harden and would have missed him if Harden hadn't extended his legs."

As for the three incorrect non-calls, they occurred at the following times:

With 1:10.6 left in the quarter, Harden turned the ball over by stepping on the baseline. Per the NBA Last Two Minute report, that call was incorrect and instead should have been a personal foul on Stephen Curry. "RAR shows that Curry (GSW) is moving laterally into Harden's (HOU) path and that the contact causes Harden to go out of bounds."

With 51.9 seconds left in the quarter, Klay Thompson made a move to the basket and attempted a jump shot. Per the NBA Last Two Minute report, that call was incorrect and Thompson should have been called for traveling. "Thompson (GSW) slides his pivot foot at the end of his dribble."

With 5.2 seconds left in the quarter, Stephen Curry and Eric Gordon scrambled for a loose ball after Harden's 3-pointer with 10.1 seconds missed. The ruling was that Gordon stepped out of bounds, but that call was incorrect and Curry should have been called for a personal foul. Per the NBA Last Two Minute report: "LAR shows Curry (GSW) makes contact with Gordon's (HOU) arm, affecting his ability to secure the ball."

 

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56 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

Meh.  Like I said, he'll already have three. Obviously it's impossible to know since we're not in his shoes or even remotely aware what its like to be an NBA player. But I'm not even sure the marginal benefit to him winning another one eclipses the benefit to his legacy of playing elsewhere even if he never reaches the Finals again. A ton of NBA fans see his decision to join a 73 win team as cowardly, and even more fans don't appreciate how great he is because it's difficult to evaluate a player's true greatness when they play on an all-star team that allows them to skirt some of the problems that other all-time greats face. That will always stain his legacy unless he makes another move.

LeBron is the obvious comp here- fans warmed to him when he moved to Cleveland, but even before that they started to warm to him when it became clear that Wade's skills were fading rapidly and Bosh was great but not a superstar, meaning he was still dealing with those problems and still had to overcome substantial hurdles to win, he couldn't just coast to a ring. It makes the narrative more compelling. If Curry was gonna disappear or Klay and Draymond were shipping out the same thing could happen for KD at Golden State, but that doesn't seem likely (correct? I honestly don't know).

He has every right to stay or go anywhere he wants, of course. But he'll never be considered one of the all-time greats (I'm talking Magic/Bird level, where I think he belongs) if he plays the next couple years with Steph, Klay and Draymond. That's just how it is. Whether that's important to him, :shrug:

 

Yes, but you consider Magic and Bird all-time greats because they were lucky to be drafted on great teams.  Imagine if their legacies were defined by playing on a team like the Suns today.  The Bulls lost to the eventual ECF champions in the two years Jordan missed between their threepeats.  Nobody would talk about them like they do today without their team accomplishments.  It's why I personally think judging a player's individual legacy is impossible because it's so dependent on teammates, but a lot of people enjoy doing so.

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Toronto, Philadelphia and Denver all lost their first round home game 1, but closed as bigger favorites in game 2 than game 1.  Milwaukee is currently a smaller favorite for game 2 than game 1.  Perhaps Vegas thinks they were wrong too.  Stevens is the second best coach against the spread since starting in the NBA.  Normally Milwaukee would be a smash spot (also 21-1 after a loss this season) but I'm staying away.  🤷‍♂️

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I'll take that half if I'm Boston.  Don't like what Morris is doing right now, though.  He took some bad shots and gave up that last 3 to George Hill.

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18 minutes ago, Jayrod said:

I'll take that half if I'm Boston.  Don't like what Morris is doing right now, though.  He took some bad shots and gave up that last 3 to George Hill.

fish rots @ the head. kyrie is looneytunes tonite, which invariably unleashes the immaturity of his acolytes. i'll gladly take it being close @ half.

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25 minutes ago, Jayrod said:

I'll take that half if I'm Boston.  Don't like what Morris is doing right now, though.  He took some bad shots and gave up that last 3 to George Hill.

And now Morris is their top offensive player...what do I know.

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What a debacle.  Doing everything wrong, zero shots falling, giving up drives...why would they take their foot off the gas.  Don't get it.

I would have taken a split if you'd offered it a week ago, but I'd like to have seen a better showing tonight.

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Zero heart.  I want to puke.

How can 8 players all simultaneously go ice cold?

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On 4/28/2019 at 6:43 PM, Jayrod said:

We are just now seeing what the Celtics are capable of right now.  Today's game had them firing on 7 of their 8 cylinders.   Tatum played like garbage and they don't have Marcus Smart in the fold.

Philly would not beat the C's as they played today.  Horford was amazing and can (and has) done the same vs. Embiid.

I was very reserved on Boston until I watched them play today.  I thought they would lose this series in 6.  Now I think they win in 5 or 6. 

In the postgame show, Paul Pierce said Milwaukee doesn't have a counter move to what they saw today and Boston is the more talented team.  I agree, and not because of homerism.  It is an honest assessment of what was shown on the court both today and this season.

Updates?

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5 minutes ago, Jayrod said:

Zero heart.  I want to puke.

How can 8 players all simultaneously go ice cold?

They miss Smart tonight.  He may not have helped them enough to win, but he would have kept them from getting embarrassed like this.

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1 minute ago, tjnc09 said:

Updates?

Boston wins in 6.  Home teams win the rest of the games.

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glad to see the bangos playing defense like they are capable of who knows if they win the series but its nice to see them play better take that to the bank bromigos 

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6 hours ago, wilked said:

Who gets more foul shots tonight?

 

greek freak or Celts

 

*serious question 

Headed to bed. Greek up by 1 with 5 mins to go... will check on this one in the AM

 

has nothing to do w the loss, but it’s a fun prop bet 

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3 minutes ago, tjnc09 said:

Yeah, the best team to ever play in the NBA needs to cheat. 🤣

😕 I don't remember the '95-'96 Bulls being accused of cheating?

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18 minutes ago, Jayrod said:

😕 I don't remember the '95-'96 Bulls being accused of cheating?

A Vegas Bookmaker said the Warriors would be favored over those Bulls teams so no.

Guarantee if social media was prevalent like today it would be the same complaining about every little thing

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13 hours ago, Jayrod said:

Mathematically?  Of course not.

Mentally?  It happens from time to time.  13 point home wins aren't as impactful as 22 point road wins.

any thoughts on 21 point losses on the road?

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1 hour ago, wikkidpissah said:

fish rots @ the head. kyrie is looneytunes tonite, which invariably unleashes the immaturity of his acolytes. i'll gladly take it being close @ half.

yikes. didn't watch the game, but looking at the box score, Kyrie was 4-18. Looking forward to see the C's fans yelling the anti-Kyrie rhetoric for this one. 

this guy usually has the best:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwQPTJWh2tc

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man, i'd love the C's fans from last year to be in here more. The nut hugging love for Tatum was crazy. Tatum tonight 2-10 and -18. Really don't know if he is going to be that much of a desired asset for a Davis trade anymore

ETA:  Heyward 1-5 in 31 minutes. Holy moly, that contract is going to hurt

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6 minutes ago, modogg said:

man, i'd love the C's fans from last year to be in here more. The nut hugging love for Tatum was crazy. Tatum tonight 2-10 and -18. Really don't know if he is going to be that much of a desired asset for a Davis trade anymore

ETA:  Heyward 1-5 in 31 minutes. Holy moly, that contract is going to hurt

Yup. And I've been vocal about both these same things. I've said from day 1 we overpaid on Hayward. Dude had 1 20ppg season over his entire career the season before we signed him to that deal. Minimal evidence to support that salary. It's going to hold us back.

Tatum got overhyped af. Rookie who averaged a very average 14ppg rookie season, and could only expand it to 15.7 his sophomore year. Pretty sure most young superstars (as he's been billed) are dropping more than 15.7 in their second season.

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15 minutes ago, ShamrockPride said:

Yup. And I've been vocal about both these same things. I've said from day 1 we overpaid on Hayward. Dude had 1 20ppg season over his entire career the season before we signed him to that deal. Minimal evidence to support that salary. It's going to hold us back.

Tatum got overhyped af. Rookie who averaged a very average 14ppg rookie season, and could only expand it to 15.7 his sophomore year. Pretty sure most young superstars (as he's been billed) are dropping more than 15.7 in their second season.

it is interesting with Tatum. I wonder if Brown is valued more than Tatum at this point. I was a Brown doubter, but he did a good job maturing this year, showing he can play different roles on a team and seems to be growing as a player. I know he is due for a new contract before Tatum, but he would seem to be a better asset at this point. 

going to be an interesting off-season for both of us

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