Insein
Footballguy
Jimmy's offense would have suffered if he was solely responsible for Kawhi and KL would have gone for 40+ a night plus all the assists he'd rack up abusing non Jimmy moments. Series would have been over in 5.
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2019 NBA Playoffs Thread: Toronto Raptors win NBA title #1.33 (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter Capella
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modogg
Footballguy
I feel like you are an alias for @Jayrod? look man, we get it. you hate Simmons and the Sixers. Great. I don't. Kid is 22 years old and this is his 2nd healthy off-season. let's see where is goes. He played 1 year of college right? came out and said how much he didn't like the whole college exp. Yet, he was easily the #1 overall pick.
Calling him a stat padder is very obvious you haven't watched him play at all as a Sixer. Guy could very easily have a triple double every night in the regular season, but the last thing he does is pad his stats
Capella
Footballguy
Frostillicus
Footballguy
I think Capella is an idiot for saying Simmons is terrible, but there are some issues there. And it might mean I don't understand basketball, but I'd take C.J. over Simmons.
millertyme1
Footballguy
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DJackson10
Footballguy
Again Triple Doubles do nothing for me. Westbrook leads in that category yearly How many titles has he led his team too. Ben was easily #1 in a terrible terrible draft class.
Again you keep on ignoring the question which leads me to believe you only read the reports people put out and watched highlights. I watched this guy nightly and he was the least impressive guy on the floor. The Kentucky bigs who both are in the NBA now mugged him. He no showed against teams he should've dominated. Dude would've seriously of benefited stay another 2 even 3 yrs in college to develop better overall. Ben is holding the Sixers back on the offensive side of the floor big time.
DJackson10
Footballguy
DJackson10
Footballguy
The fact we're in agreement here just shows how far of a reach that was. I ask a legit question and get HS stats thrown at me?
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DJackson10
Footballguy
Not sure if this was posted yet so I will. Per John Clark
Brett Brown has “a lot of support” within Sixers organization to stay as coach and is owed $15 million for next 3 years, according to @wojespn
#Sixers
Brett Brown has “a lot of support” within Sixers organization to stay as coach and is owed $15 million for next 3 years, according to @wojespn
#Sixers
modogg
Footballguy
CJ is 27, Ben is 22. If we are suggesting there is only one NBA year left for everyone, then maybe the argument for CJ holds weight. But give me the guy ho is 5 years younger with a higher ceiling for now. Honestly is hard to say at this point considering the uncertainty of how the team looks next year. I just look forward to all of the Simmons posts in here 2 years from now to hear all of the thoughts again.
If Ben was on one of the lottery teams, he would have much better stats. there is an argument about what offense to run with him and Embiid, but when Ben is on the floor with JJ or Tobias, i would rather see JJ or Tobias take the jump shot then Ben
DJackson10
Footballguy
Also this isn't an attack on @modogg here. There's people who legit like Ben Simmons and only saw his College highlights HS Highlights and saw no games and will quote HS stats and show his highlights. It's not just Mo but many other fans. The reason I ask is because a lot of people just go off of highlights they saw in college on prospects in Both Basketball and football. They'll also push aside anything remotely article wise on issues with the player as well. So me asking if he actually watched Simmons in college is a legit question here. I saw the guy nightly and not everyone will come away with the same conclusion on a player but Ben Simmons in college constantly failed to live up to the hype at the college level time and again. Most games he went MIA and or was just flat out mugged by lesser talent. I don't need someone's HS stats thrown at me or asked if I saw his highlights. Why do I need those because they don't show any of the issues I talk about and completely ignore the issues myself and others have said about Ben.
modogg
Footballguy
i am not a huge CBB fan, so no, i am sure you watched him much more than i did in college. But comparing his college stats to his 3rd year in the NBA is a bit of a false premise as well. One of the biggest slights on SImmons coming into the NBA is that he couldn't play defense. Well he is one of the Sixers best on-ball defenders at this point.
Fultz also looked good in college and i did see some of his games. Let's just say I would rather have had the college Fultz instead of the one the Sixers had for a few years
Capella
Footballguy
I’m using terrible a little loosely here. He’s not terrible like Andrew Wiggins or your mom but he’s definitely nowhere near as good as people seem to think he is.
General Malaise
Footballguy
Don't Noonan
Footballguy
The last time the Blazers were in the Western Conference Finals was in 2000 and it remains the biggest sports bad beat ever for me. In game 7 Portland was up 15 halfway through the 4th game in LA and found a way to lose not just the Western Conference Finals but also an NBA championship since they would have smoked the Pacers.
I hate Brian Shaw, Kobe Bryant, and Shaq because of that game.
I hate Brian Shaw, Kobe Bryant, and Shaq because of that game.
General Malaise
Footballguy
He's a terrible person, too. Watched him ignore a group of kids at a HS arena (not a large group) who wanted to high five him or get an autograph. Just ignored all of them as he walked by pretending they weren't there. Grade A doooosh move. This wasn't the Moda Center or some major venue. Don't show up to a tiny venue, post all over social media about going there and then stonewall kids who are thrilled to see you.
Also went creeper guy on my friend's daughter and was way uncool about it. Hope Ben Simmons has a short and unsuccessful career because that's what he deserves. Go marry a Kardashian and be done with it.
General Malaise
Footballguy
Now how does a guy who makes the kinda money you do betting on sports find the time to dig up week's old posts? Impressive!
coyote5
Footballguy
With Simmons' current skill set... specifically his horrible shooting outside 5ft, he is just not a good match alongside Embiid. Right now he is an amazing small ball center (cribbing from the Ringer article the other day which made the same argument, and did it well. Check it out.). His physical skills are inarguable, his court vision is elite. But right now, this playoffs, it's inarguable that dropping CJ onto that team would have made them far more dangerous. 2,3 yrs from now, if..IF... Ben comes up with a LEGIT jumper, he'll be scary. Big if right now.
ShamrockPride
Footballguy
Sucks is harsh. Awful scorer for sure, but dude CAN pass the ball. Has the length and athleticism to rebound. I don't watch enough of him to comment on his on-ball D outside of looking at stats. And of course some of his stats are inflated due to playing on the same court as Embiid. But I'd still take him for the right price. No way I'd give McCollum for him though if I'm Portland like someone mentioned above.
millertyme1
Footballguy
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BassNBrew
Footballguy
Deamon
Footballguy
It's crazy how much a narrative can change over an inch in sports. Drives me nuts. I know, I know, 'it's just the final score that matters". But say that shot misses and Philly wins in OT, is there still all this talk about not being able to make it out of round 2? That series was a coinflip and had more to do with luck of one shot going in/out than about how one team choked or isn't good enough or should be way different. It's like one team is put on a pedestal and the other buried and mocked just for something totally lucky either way.
I don't think the sixers should do anything differently regarding next season because they lost at the buzzer in game 7. If they were going to fire Brown if we lost to the Bucks, than fire him now. If not, don't.
I don't think the sixers should do anything differently regarding next season because they lost at the buzzer in game 7. If they were going to fire Brown if we lost to the Bucks, than fire him now. If not, don't.
Deamon
Footballguy
Dude you really gotta chill on your anti sixers stuff. I've never seen someone on such an irrational mission before or been so happy when a team has lost. Chill man.
Deamon
Footballguy
I wish. But I doubt it. Feels like we're going to have a small let down after a thrilling round 2. Bucks and Warriors in 5.
Deamon
Footballguy
Brett Brown will return as the Philadelphia 76ers' coach for the 2019-20 season, managing partner Josh Harris told ESPN on Monday night.
There had been some uncertainty about Brown returning for his seventh season, but Harris eliminated that doubt in a lengthy meeting with Brown and general manager Elton Brand on Monday that mostly centered on discussions about the franchise's plans for the offseason.
I like it. Not 100% sold on him but the guys like him and it might help some of the guys re-sign. Also it seems like he's grown a lot and is improving. He's as good as the coach he would have been had they won game 7.
There had been some uncertainty about Brown returning for his seventh season, but Harris eliminated that doubt in a lengthy meeting with Brown and general manager Elton Brand on Monday that mostly centered on discussions about the franchise's plans for the offseason.
I like it. Not 100% sold on him but the guys like him and it might help some of the guys re-sign. Also it seems like he's grown a lot and is improving. He's as good as the coach he would have been had they won game 7.
mr. furley
Footballguy
of all the things i don't understand, hiring & firing NBA coaches ranks way up there among the things i don't understand.
why was Brown even remotely considered to be in danger of losing his job? because of sizzling hot Stephen A takes?
do the players not like him? does the front office not like him?
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
There were rumblings in local media for a few weeks and then Marc Stein put out the report right before game 7. It was never totally clear, other than the fact that supposedly the front office/ownership group had very high expectations for what they wanted to accomplish this season. I think that the Sixers' front office and ownership group is a bit difficult to read. There are a lot of different voices all the time. Elton Brand is the GM, but oversees a team of advisors who were largely there before him. Josh Harris is the face of the ownership group, but there are several different high finance guys involved, so I think they all have their own levels of interest and opinions, many of which relate to the team's value and perception, not necessarily basketball. And also Scott O'Neill is kind of the money man as the president, always trying to ably and efficiently separate the good people of the Delaware Valley from their wallets on ownership's behalf.
so I would assume that someone among all of those people was leaking those reports for whatever their purpose was. Though I have no idea who it was really supposed to help by getting that floated before game 7. Would that really have helped the team win? Seems unlikely and I'm not sure who would have been helped by a loss. Presumably someone just doesn't think that Brown is the right guy to take them to the next level.
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Jayrod
Footballguy
The owner had stated that they expected to go further this year than last year and technically that did not happen.
Also, for reasons wikkid eloquently stated earlier in this thread, they haven't developed a solid and consistent winning strategy yet. This team was talented enough to beat Toronto and didn't.
What someone deserves and what is best for the organization aren't always the same thing.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
talent <> fit
Brown isn't perfect and I agree that the lack of Simmons' development (perhaps because Brown is too close with the family and/or no one can tell Ben no) could be a mark against him. But the team has constantly been in flux and he was trying to make this roster work on the fly the whole season. Plus he had almost no moves to go to with the bench. Every time Joel is out of the game, they get torn apart because they don't have a backup big who can play a single cromulent minute on D at this level. I think it would have been hard for most to do any better. And if Joel isn't dying for half the series, they probably still win.
mr. furley
Footballguy
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Draft lottery is tonight. Chances for Zion:
Knicks: 14%
Cavaliers: 14%
Suns: 14.0%
Bulls: 12.5%
Hawks: 10.5%
Wizards: 9%
Pelicans: 6%
Grizzlies: 6%
Mavericks: 6%
Lakers: 2%
Hornets: 1%
Heat: 1%
Sixers (from Kings): 1%
It would be uncool if the Sixers won. Lakers too. I also don't want the Cavs to win because they've had enough #1s in recent history. My fingers and toes will be staying crossed all day.
Knicks: 14%
Cavaliers: 14%
Suns: 14.0%
Bulls: 12.5%
Hawks: 10.5%
Wizards: 9%
Pelicans: 6%
Grizzlies: 6%
Mavericks: 6%
Lakers: 2%
Hornets: 1%
Heat: 1%
Sixers (from Kings): 1%
It would be uncool if the Sixers won. Lakers too. I also don't want the Cavs to win because they've had enough #1s in recent history. My fingers and toes will be staying crossed all day.
Vanilla Guerrilla
Footballguy
He is the perfect counterbalance to Modogg. Pimp Celtics trash Philly. They'll both go on a post bender and drop 18 replies in a row usually bouncing between intense homer love and venomous Celtic/Sixer hatred. If you look at either of them on their own, they might be annoying, but taken as an even Steven situation, it all makes sense.
modogg
Footballguy
I'm not sure how much I trust the Sixers' front office, particularly the ownership, but according to recent interviews, Brett's job was not in any jeopardy:
https://www.libertyballers.com/2019/5/14/18622950/highlights-from-elton-brand-and-josh-harris-end-of-season-presser
Brett’s job was never in jeopardy,” Joshua Harris says — @KyleNeubeck
Josh Harris said Brett Brown knew through the Toronto series that his job was not in jeopardy. — @PompeyOnSixers
“There was a lot of noise in the press.. probably kicked up by our competitors? Who knows.” — @Kevin_Kinkead
Joshua Harris on Brett Brown rumors:”Lots been made about this in the press, and truthfully, you can’t believe what you’re hearing.” “I have a great relationship with Brett.” — @jonjohnsonWIP
modogg
Footballguy
yes, 76ers are definitely in a better situation than they were pre-tank (i.e. 4 years ago). If we are looking at just current moment they still are in terms of future draft picks, salary cap, and probably more current talent than the team from 4 years ago. If we are looking at future outlook, the current Sixers are head and shoulders better
modogg
Footballguy
half of my posts regarding the Celtics can be directly attributed to Celtics' fans. Some are normal and thus we can have normal conversations. Good chunk are not, and thus the excessive posts. But that is only at times when they are competing, at this point no real need to extrapolate and discuss how Tatum is a top 2 player in the league and Stevens is the best coach EVA!!
belljr
Footballguy
Thanks but thats not actually the question I was asking. This is just my own curiosity. Yes I understand the current Sixers are better than 4 years ago.
My question was more - if they continued on at their "normal" operations vs "tanking". Are they much better now with 4 years of tanking vs 4 years of "normal operations".
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
That's not what he asked. Of course they are better off than they were 4 years ago. The question is did tanking really accomplish that much.
ETA: lol, too slow on my part.
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Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
It depends on if they keep Butler and Harris and if those moves where they traded assets helps them win.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Tanking got them Embiid. So the answer is probably yes. The better question probably is should they have stopped tanking after that. Then we are back to whether or not you think it is important to be able to shoot outside the lane in todays NBA.
Obviously the 76ers love dudes that cant shoot. Carter Williams, Simmons, Fultz but a few people out there disagree.
Frostillicus
Footballguy
Frostillicus
Footballguy
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
The what now? They have a bunch of seconds. Draft capital is pretty much gone at this point.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Sixer fans will say "yes" but the real answer is "no one really knows". Milwaukee, Toronto, Boston, Portland, Denver, Golden State all did as well or better than Phila and did not tank. In fact the talk all these years was how foolish Milwaukee was to play for the 8th seed every year instead of blowing it up completely for top picks.
I don't think their current team and their future was worth being such an utter embaressment for four years. They pushed their chips into the middle by acquiring Butler and Harris and still didn't even make it to the ECF.
If Kawahi stays, and somehow the Knicks pull off a Zion, Durant and Kyrie offseason (obviously not a given) - will the Sixers necessarily even get out of the second round next season? Boston should still be good, maybe better and Indiana will have Oladipo back. Of course the Sixers could improve themselves but it's also possible they are worse if Butler or Harris leave and they can't replace them properly.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Would they have had a superstar and 3 stars, which is what you need to win, right now along with cap flexibility without going through that process? Doubtful.
Part of the problem with the whole evaluation, though, is that they short-circuited what Hinkie was going for (rightly or wrongly), brought in the tweeting clown, then ramped things up with Brand. It's not like the whole "process" has been that clean.
They really had very little path to success where they were 6 years ago. Is it possible that they could have gotten someone like Masai who could really build a team up without high picks? Maybe (though those guys don't grow on trees and who knows why they realistically could have gotten). But figuring out these counterfactuals is so fraught, if not impossible, so in the end I think that the main point is that the tanking certainly resulted in a net benefit.
SWC
Bromigo
i am rooting for the grizzlies because i like teams that have a nickname that has absolutely no relation to the area they play in except the lakers because they suck and i hope that they slide in to the ocean take that to the bank bromigos
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
I dont know which flummoxes me more - that so few see how overwhelmed Brett Brown is on the court or that folks continue to defend him without any evidence he's done anything right on his own except that he was the guy wearing the suit when a decade of tanking finally paid off with more than one genuine basketball talent on the floor at a time.
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