What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Notre Dame in Paris is on fire (1 Viewer)

what an incredible loss this is heartbreaking does anyone know if the building had been retrofit previously with fire supression equipment 

 
culdeus said:
where is the lead primarily located?  I can't imagine the fire is hot enough to vaporize it, maybe make some fumes.  
Click to expand...
Gotta see how hot a wood fire can burn — boiling point of lead (when it begins to turn to gas) is 3180 F.

I know from personal experience that lead can be melted on a gas stove - it melts at 621 F. My dad did it indoors, in the kitchen, with nothing more than the hood vent going. It was definitely fumey.

 
culdeus said:
I'm surprised there is quite so much combustible material in play here.   Well what you gonna do, other than don't drive a forklift over a tapestry or whatever they did?
Click to expand...
There wasn't a wide variety of building materials available in the 12th century.  Wood was the most practical option.

It's amazing that they were able to lift the timber to that height using only animal and water power.

 
McJose said:
Not to be Debbie Downer but the “crown of thorns” at ND wasn’t really worn by JC.

ETA: the pieces of the cross and nails aren’t authentic either
Click to expand...
Are you saying this as a history teacher or a non-believer? (not judging you just curious)

 
Last edited by a moderator:
i dont know that they could even find timber sufficient to rebuild with like size beams wow just horrible

 
boilerdave said:
Are you saying this as a history teacher or a non-believer? (not judging you just curious)
Click to expand...
There is zero reliable historical evidence to support the authenticity of any of the relics related to Christ.  

IIRC someone once counted like 25 “authentic” nails on display across Europe just a few years ago.

 
Some French authorities saying the structure have been saved. While that may be possible, seems a bit early to make those claims?

 
culdeus said:
where is the lead primarily located?  I can't imagine the fire is hot enough to vaporize it, maybe make some fumes.  
Click to expand...
Been I long time since I studied chemistry, though hanging on my wall is a degree for organic chemistry.  If I remember lead melts very close to the combustion temperature of paper, a bit more, maybe, around 330 degrees centigrade.  Boiling or evaporating, that is much, much higher, around 1800 degree.  No question the lead will melt and flow, but vaporize, I just do not see how the temps could get that high, though the structure would seem to be a bit of a natural forge furnace with air intake areas at the bottom and a natural sort of chimney to create a draw.  I suppose its possible.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
McJose said:
There is zero reliable historical evidence to support the authenticity of any of the relics related to Christ.  

IIRC someone once counted like 25 “authentic” nails on display across Europe just a few years ago.
Click to expand...
The history behind sacred relics of all religions is full of fascinating stories and dubious claims.  It's probably better in a different thread though.

 
culdeus said:
where is the lead primarily located?  I can't imagine the fire is hot enough to vaporize it, maybe make some fumes.  
Click to expand...
Building fires will typically burn at temps lower than 1000 C.  Boiling point of lead is around 1750 C.

 
McJose said:
There is zero reliable historical evidence to support the authenticity of any of the relics related to Christ.  

IIRC someone once counted like 25 “authentic” nails on display across Europe just a few years ago.
Click to expand...
Deleted at the advice of Andy Dufresne.  He's a good guy and if he advises something, well I'm not too proud to follow sound advice. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I would think that there are measuring devices which could be pointed at the heart of that fire from miles away and which could tell us how hot it is in the center.

 
I keep trying to figure out why they didn't get water planes on this quicker, here's a theory:
 

Despite the massive size of the fire, a water-dropping plane could not have be used, he said.

"You couldn’t use a plane to drop water here because it’s highly unlikely you would hit the fire," Corbett said. "You would hit everything around it. I don’t see value in doing that."
Click to expand...


He also mentions remodeling efforts as the most dangerous time for old cathedrals, churches, etc.
 

Glenn Corbett, an associate professor of fire science at John Jay College in New York, said there is a history of churches, synagogues and temples going up in flames during renovations.

"This is a common problem for a lot of churches across the country," Corbett said.

"If there is a most vulnerable time for a church, it is when it is under construction because we get people who are using torches or welding or cutting that are of course emitting forces," Corbett.
Click to expand...
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/notre-dame-fire-race-against-time-to-save-paris-cathedral/ar-BBVXM4v?ocid=spartanntp

 
I’m on a work trip with the better half and had lunch at a cafe down the street yesterday.  My wife was there today but didn’t go in.

ive had people on Facebook I have spoken to in 20 years checking in with me to make sure I’m ok..... it is a little crazy in the city at the moment

 
This is terrible.  What a beautiful and historic building.  I really hope that announcement that the structure has been saved is true but the spire falling is horrible.  I hope nobody has been hurt during this.  I haven’t been able to follow the news - do they know how the fire started?

 
Andy Dufresne said:
It was removed.

I hope this thread stays on the subject at hand* and doesn't devolve into a theological catfight or a source for jokes.

*Religion or no religion, this is as historic of a cultural loss as we've ever seen.
Click to expand...
So, in my lifetime we have lost the Tetrapylon, the Al lat lion, the Bamiyon Buddhas and now maybe this.

 
There should be some salvageable material after things cool down. I wonder if they could sell pieces of the structure (think Berlin Wall) to help cover the costs of the rebuild? Even charred pieces of ancient timbers could be re purposed in order for it to live on.  

 
I cant even imagine what WW2 was like. So much history destroyed then. Notre Dame burning down feels terrible, I can’t imagjne this happening regularly.

 
Doug B said:
Molten lead is pretty smelly ... so I can buy the 752 F figure. as well. 
Click to expand...
Yeah, it's kind of like boiling water - you get water vapor long before it starts to boil.  But even a low simmer will evaporate all the water out if it's simmering for days.  It boils at a low temp, too, for a metal, but it's still 3000 degrees or something.

752 is just when it's melted and you start to get some vapor in the air.  But if that lasts long enough, you're going to get a lot of lead in the air.

 
Ditkaless Wonders said:
Been I long time since I studied chemistry, though hanging on my wall is a degree for organic chemistry.  If I remember lead melts very close to the combustion temperature of paper, a bit more, maybe, around 330 degrees centigrade.  Boiling or evaporating, that is much, much higher, around 1800 degree.  No question the lead will melt and flow, but vaporize, I just do not see how the temps could get that high, though the structure would seem to be a bit of a natural forge furnace with air intake areas at the bottom and a natural sort of chimney to create a draw.  I suppose its possible.
Click to expand...
This:

Henry Ford said:
Yeah, it's kind of like boiling water - you get water vapor long before it starts to boil.  But even a low simmer will evaporate all the water out if it's simmering for days.  It boils at a low temp, too, for a metal, but it's still 3000 degrees or something.

752 is just when it's melted and you start to get some vapor in the air.  But if that lasts long enough, you're going to get a lot of lead in the air.
Click to expand...
Edit: It's why when a house with lead paint burns down the entire area of the building needs to be remediated.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
An expert on the cathedral from Duke University was just interviewed on NPR. She said above the vaulted ceiling is a "forest" of timbers for support. She said they're very dry, and called it a fire waiting to happen, like in the roofs of many old structures. Let's see what the forensic analysis reveals.

.

.

 
Ilov80s said:
I cant even imagine what WW2 was like. So much history destroyed then. Notre Dame burning down feels terrible, I can’t imagjne this happening regularly.
Click to expand...
I understand that at one time a person could have had a very nice vacation going to first Dresden d then Beirut. Wars and cultures change and much is lost or destroyed n purpose. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I was listening to local radio on my way home from work, and a guy called in saying his daughter is in Paris on vacation and went to Palm Sunday mass in the cathedral, and that the Shroud of Turin was on display.

 
zed2283 said:
I was listening to local radio on my way home from work, and a guy called in saying his daughter is in Paris on vacation and went to Palm Sunday mass in the cathedral, and that the Shroud of Turin was on display.
Click to expand...
I need to brush up on my artifact locations, but isn't the turin shroud in Notre Dame Jerusalem?  Some quick googling seems to confirm this, and there's no mention of this being on display in Paris right now anywhere or in any of the news articles.    

 
Henry Ford said:
Yeah, it's kind of like boiling water - you get water vapor long before it starts to boil.  But even a low simmer will evaporate all the water out if it's simmering for days.  It boils at a low temp, too, for a metal, but it's still 3000 degrees or something.

752 is just when it's melted and you start to get some vapor in the air.  But if that lasts long enough, you're going to get a lot of lead in the air.
Click to expand...
A Fahrenheit fan.  I guess I need to convert my numbers, but we are essentially in the same ball park.  Looking at my post now I realize how old I expose myself to be by using the word "centigrade".  I would hate to admit how many element there were on the Periodic table when I was in school.

I wonder too, about the lead.  I understand that back in the day they used some rather dirty techniques to separate such substances and that they may have substantial other remnants or other heavy metals in the mixture.  Of course if I knew much of anything about such things I might be restoring classic architecture, not practicing law.

I presume the windows had a great deal of lead in them as well.  I presume that was what was used to secure stained glass in frames, though I do not know this.

 
Ditkaless Wonders said:
I understand tha that one time a person could have had a very nice vacation going to first Dresden d then Beirut. Wars and cultures change and much is lost or destroyed n purpose. 
Click to expand...
It breaks my heart to see history destroyed. It’s always happening, Britain bombed by the Germans, Napoleon raiding museums, ISIS destroying ancient cities. I guess such is life and we should be happy anything lasts as long as it does...

 
Ditkaless Wonders said:
A Fahrenheit fan.  I guess I need to convert my numbers, but we are essentially in the same ball park.  Looking at my post now I realize how old I expose myself to be by using the word "centigrade".  I would hate to admit how many element there were on the Periodic table when I was in school.

I wonder too, about the lead.  I understand that back in the day they used some rather dirty techniques to separate such substances and that they may have substantial other remnants or other heavy metals in the mixture.  Of course if I knew much of anything about such things I might be restoring classic architecture, not practicing law.

I presume the windows had a great deal of lead in them as well.  I presume that was what was used to secure stained glass in frames, though I do not know this.
Click to expand...
Hmmm...that’s an interesting statement 

 
culdeus said:
I need to brush up on my artifact locations, but isn't the turin shroud in Notre Dame Jerusalem?  Some quick googling seems to confirm this, and there's no mention of this being on display in Paris right now anywhere or in any of the news articles.    
Click to expand...
Ahhh... maybe the guy got his facts (i.e. the location of his daughter) wrong.

ETA: I can't find anything to back up what you said about Jerusalem?  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shroud_of_Turin

 
Last edited by a moderator:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Yogibear
2023-2024 College Football Season
Replies
22
Views
981
Jayrod
Jayrod
ex-ghost
Paris
Replies
32
Views
498
DA RAIDERS
DA RAIDERS
Steeler
Dry Fire Training Systems
Replies
4
Views
471
Steeler
Steeler

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Top