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Saudi Arabia Executed 37 people yesterday. One by crucifixion


Joe Bryant

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A while back I posted some reports about how KSA punishes those who speak out about the crown and the Koran. Not against, about.

Somewhere in history there’s a path where mankind didn’t become so ultra reliant on oil and it would be interesting to see what the peninsula and Mesopotamia would look like.

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Yes our good friends the Saudi princes. Such wonderful people. 

I’d love to make this about Donald Trump - and it’s absolutely true that his responses to Saudi actions have been shameful- but sadly Trump is just the latest in a long line of Presidents, Democrat and Republican, who have much to answer for on this score. 

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Doing some reading it may be that in Saudi Arabia crucifixion is publicly displaying an already dead, usually beheaded, person on a cross, not the punishment I think of where a live person is put up there to slowly strangle their heart and lungs.  I do not yet have what I would consider authoritative confirmation of this process.  Any experts? 

Edited by Ditkaless Wonders
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And people want to talk about Iran and human rights as if the US government gives a flying rats butt about those things. 

The Saudis define terrorism as anyone who even kind of maybe isn't 100% into the way things are done by the royal family. And we prop them up, call them our friends. Yep our friends. The country where Bin Laden got his money. The country that funds madrassas all over the world trying to radicalize people against the west. The home of most of the 9/11 hijackers. We went to war with the wrong countries.

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is it good for me as an American citizen living within the United States mainland that TERROISTS were killed somewhere else before they attacked my family, home and country?  Should I feel safer about the state of the world now?

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1 hour ago, NCCommish said:

And people want to talk about Iran and human rights as if the US government gives a flying rats butt about those things. 

Well we should talk about Iran. 

Just because we’re hypocrites when it comes to Saudi Arabia (and a few other countries as well) doesn’t mean we’re wrong to criticize Iran. They’re not good guys. 

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Imagine the Middle East without Saudi Arabia.  What would it be like?  Then ask yourself does the bad outweigh the positive.  Beside oil there’s a reason why the us has them as an ally.  Is Egypt, Libya, Iraq, Syria etc better today after the previous strong rulers have been destabilized or overthrown?

Edited by stlrams
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4 hours ago, dutch said:

is it good for me as an American citizen living within the United States mainland that TERROISTS were killed somewhere else before they attacked my family, home and country?  Should I feel safer about the state of the world now?

You're assuming that your definition of "terrorist" is the same as the Saudi definition. 

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Really too many unknowns here to make an informed judgement - but I did want to point out that "crucifixion" in Saudi Arabia generally occurs post-execution (beheading).  It is not a means of execution, but rather akin to putting the body on display for particularly egregious crimes.

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1 hour ago, Sinn Fein said:

Really too many unknowns here to make an informed judgement - but I did want to point out that "crucifixion" in Saudi Arabia generally occurs post-execution (beheading).  It is not a means of execution, but rather akin to putting the body on display for particularly egregious crimes.

Well when you put it that way it doesn't sound all so bad :oldunsure:

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7 hours ago, timschochet said:

Well we should talk about Iran. 

Just because we’re hypocrites when it comes to Saudi Arabia (and a few other countries as well) doesn’t mean we’re wrong to criticize Iran. They’re not good guys. 

Just don't use it as a justification for anything. Your hypocrisy leaves you no moral high ground.

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2 minutes ago, NCCommish said:

Just don't use it as a justification for anything. Your hypocrisy leaves you no moral high ground.

Agreed. Well sort of. We kind of still get the moral high ground because we’re one of very few countries that has attempted to enforce an international moral code- at various times, unevenly, with a lot of hypocrisy. But even so we have done it at times. 

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Just now, timschochet said:

Agreed. Well sort of. We kind of still get the moral high ground because we’re one of very few countries that has attempted to enforce an international moral code- at various times, unevenly, with a lot of hypocrisy. But even so we have done it at times. 

And yet here we are today fighting a UN resolution against rape as a weapon of war because it mentions women's reproductive health care. We aren't the white knight. 

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31 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Agreed. Well sort of. We kind of still get the moral high ground because we’re one of very few countries that has attempted to enforce an international moral code- at various times, unevenly, with a lot of hypocrisy. But even so we have done it at times. 

Germany might qualify also. Japan? Great Britain? Spain? Portugal? Scandinavia? (you didn't say it was a positive moral code)

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4 minutes ago, msommer said:

Only you and other Americans think so.

I could answer you with an arrogant “that’s enough.” 

But actually I disagree with you. Despite all of our failings, despite our mistakes in Iraq and other places, despite the uneven isolationism of our current President, the world still looks to the USA for moral leadership. 

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33 minutes ago, NCCommish said:

And yet here we are today fighting a UN resolution against rape as a weapon of war because it mentions women's reproductive health care. We aren't the white knight. 

Obviously, we're far from perfect.

It's an interesting question. I asked a poll here https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/775462-where-do-you-see-the-us-in-relation-to-the-world/

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49 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Sometimes we are. 

 

 And when was the last time we were? Was it when we started a war of choice that killed at least 100,000 civilians? Or was it when we ran out of bombs bombing a country that never attacked us killing thousands of civilians while propping up terrorists? Maybe it was when we used drones to target weddings, funerals and first responders? Maybe it was when that drone program became a symbol of fear keeping children from playing outside? Or maybe it is when US munitions are being used to prosecute a genocidal war again against a people who never did anything to us? Or maybe it's when we support an apartheid state and its massive disregard for human rights or international law and treaties? 

We long ago lost our way and it is going to take a radical change in how we do our business to even begin to find our way back.

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2 hours ago, timschochet said:

I could answer you with an arrogant “that’s enough.” 

But actually I disagree with you. Despite all of our failings, despite our mistakes in Iraq and other places, despite the uneven isolationism of our current President, the world still looks to the USA for moral leadership. 

I don’t think the world looks to the USA for moral leadership.  Travel the world and ask people that question and see what they say.

Edited by shader
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3 hours ago, timschochet said:

I could answer you with an arrogant “that’s enough.” 

But actually I disagree with you. Despite all of our failings, despite our mistakes in Iraq and other places, despite the uneven isolationism of our current President, the world still looks to the USA for moral leadership. 

According to polling of nearly 60000 people around the world we come in 33rd. So I'm going to go with no they don't. Polling shows even a bipartisan plurality of Americans dont believe that.

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3 hours ago, NCCommish said:

According to polling of nearly 60000 people around the world we come in 33rd. So I'm going to go with no they don't. Polling shows even a bipartisan plurality of Americans dont believe that.

My experience, much like your belief, is that the world does not look to us unless we are the last resort, sort of the Churchillian aphorism.  (We can be counted on, at a last resort, every other option exhausted, to do the right thing.) My experience is also that they see us as believing as Tim posts here, that we do have some moral authority or high ground, and that pisses them off. That is what they mean by American arrogance.

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7 hours ago, NCCommish said:

And yet here we are today fighting a UN resolution against rape as a weapon of war because it mentions women's reproductive health care. We aren't the white knight. 

I'm sure that wasn't a politically motivated poison pill inserted into that resolution.  Aiming to make us choose between rape as a weapon of war and infanticide isn't much of a choice.

 

18 hours ago, timschochet said:

Yes our good friends the Saudi princes. Such wonderful people. 

Better than the alternative of whatever would takeover if that government was toppled.  

Supporting the stability of SA is a good thing.  Nowhere near perfect, but better than the alternative.

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51 minutes ago, Sand said:

I'm sure that wasn't a politically motivated poison pill inserted into that resolution.  Aiming to make us choose between rape as a weapon of war and infanticide isn't much of a choice.

 

Better than the alternative of whatever would takeover if that government was toppled.  

Supporting the stability of SA is a good thing.  Nowhere near perfect, but better than the alternative.

Like an alternatiove where Saudi is not run by religious fanatics?

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1 minute ago, msommer said:

Like an alternatiove where Saudi is not run by religious fanatics?

We toppled the Shah - we've now got a govt. there run by religious fanatics that sponsor terrorism to the tune of billions per year.  We toppled the Hussein and Gaddafi regimes and got total chaos.

Yeah, it ain't perfect by any means, but it's highly probable it's better than the alternative.

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1 hour ago, Sand said:

I'm sure that wasn't a politically motivated poison pill inserted into that resolution.  Aiming to make us choose between rape as a weapon of war and infanticide isn't much of a choice.

 

Better than the alternative of whatever would takeover if that government was toppled.  

Supporting the stability of SA is a good thing.  Nowhere near perfect, but better than the alternative.

Actually that language was already agreed to by the US in 2013. It was fairly tepid and doesn't explicitly mention abortion. By the way abortions aren't infanticide by definition. Literally has to be born to be a victim of infanticide. 

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On 4/24/2019 at 4:54 PM, timschochet said:

I could answer you with an arrogant “that’s enough.” 

But actually I disagree with you. Despite all of our failings, despite our mistakes in Iraq and other places, despite the uneven isolationism of our current President, the world still looks to the USA for moral leadership. 

You don't travel much do you?

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23 hours ago, Sand said:

We toppled the Shah - we've now got a govt. there run by religious fanatics that sponsor terrorism to the tune of billions per year.  We toppled the Hussein and Gaddafi regimes and got total chaos.

Yeah, it ain't perfect by any means, but it's highly probable it's better than the alternative.

We did?

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10 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Headed to Italy this summer. Can’t wait. 

My pro Trump FIL is retired and travels all over the world. But I’m a bit skeptical of what he tells me. According to him, everybody he meets loves Trump and hated Obama. 

Nice.  Which cities?  

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12 hours ago, timschochet said:

5 nights in Rome (1 day in Venice via high speed rail), then a 9 day cruise of the Western Met- Barcelona, Naples, Nice, Monte Carlo, Florence. 

I'm guessing you'll embark in Livorno as Florence is landlocked. Pisa is on the way from Florence to Livorno, BTW

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