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Where Do You See The US In Relation To The World?


Joe Bryant

Where Do You See The US In Relation To The World?  

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It was said in another thread that the US is not the "White Knight" in relation to the world. 

Where do you see it?

To add. It's where we are currently. Just like a sports team. Past history factors into where we are currently. 

Edited by Joe Bryant
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Absolutely the good guy. Sometimes the white knight. 

We’re about to celebrate the 75th anniversary of D-Day. Now, that was done with allies: British, Canadians, free French, etc., but essentially it was us. We saved Western Europe (and the world) from the Nazis. Think about that. Only a few years later we had the Marshall Plan and the Berlin Airlift and we saved Western Europe (and the world) from Stalinist Russia. 

The two greatest evils in the history of human civilization and we stopped them. We were the white knight then. 

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12 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Absolutely the good guy. Sometimes the white knight. 

We’re about to celebrate the 75th anniversary of D-Day. Now, that was done with allies: British, Canadians, free French, etc., but essentially it was us. We saved Western Europe (and the world) from the Nazis. Think about that. Only a few years later we had the Marshall Plan and the Berlin Airlift and we saved Western Europe (and the world) from Stalinist Russia. 

The two greatest evils in the history of human civilization and we stopped them. We were the white knight then. 

That was a long time ago.

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Is the US government evil? It certainly can be. Ask the Iranians who suffered under the Shah or the Iraqis that suffered under Saddam. Those were both our guys and they murdered, tortured and disappeared people as they saw fit. Ask the Yemenis what they think as our bombs and our support kill them. And really that just scratching the surface. 

Are the American people as a whole evil? No I think they are so busy trying to survive that things happening a world away seem illusory and to far removed from the daily struggle to fixate on. 

That's why I voted not evil but absolutely the bad guy.  Although I would change it to "too often the bad guy". We aren't and really never were the John Wayne character in this movie.

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10 minutes ago, moleculo said:

I don't understand the question.  Is it "who are we now", "who were we up until recently", or "who should we be"?

Yeah it's poorly framed. adding a predominately would help, but in reality every action should be weighed on it's own merit

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I used to think of America as "Maybe Not The Hero, But Absolutely The Good Guy", but I think we're sliding down this scale in recent years.  Pulling out of the Paris Agreement and the humanitarian crisis on our southern border to cite 2 examples.

ETA: I voted neutral as I view our current situation as a temporary anomaly. 

Edited by Amused to Death
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Our role in the world is totally different now than it's been since after WWII.  We are no longer the leaders on the environment. Or the first to cry foul when there is inhumanity. We now refuse to criticize murderous dictators and their regimes. And while we let them walk all over us, we flex our muscles and act badass against our allies.

We are certainly no longer the white knights. Nor even good guys.  My hope is that the rest of the world realizes that this regime is only supported by about 35% of our citizens and that this is only temporary and certainly doesn't represent the country as a whole.

I voted 'Somewhat the bad guy'. Temporarily.

Edited by JuniorNB
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10 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Things go down the crapper quickly when people start getting behind the whole America first movement that Trump keeps pushing.  All we're doing is alienating other countries, especially ones that we are suppose to be allies with.

America first was fine. He is now pushing America only.

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36 minutes ago, moleculo said:

I don't understand the question.  Is it "who are we now", "who were we up until recently", or "who should we be"?

Where we are now. It's our current ranking. Just like a sports team. And of course, past history factors into where we are currently. 

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I think throughout American history, we have promoted ourselves as "The Good Guy/White Knight" and have numerous examples to back it up. While at the very same time, often times by the same people in power, being "The Bad Guy" to other groups of people, including our own citizens. We tend to have this curious habit of overpromoting/propagandizing the former and understating or simply ignoring the latter. The net effect leans slightly to the positive for me but YMMV based on your own history and background.

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Just now, Workhorse said:

I think throughout American history, we have promoted ourselves as "The Good Guy/White Knight" and have numerous examples to back it up. While at the very same time, often times by the same people in power, being "The Bad Guy" to other groups of people, including our own citizens. We tend to have this curious habit of overpromoting/propagandizing the former and understating or simply ignoring the latter. The net effect leans slightly to the positive for me but YMMV based on your own history and background.

Thanks. Not sure if you were being sarcastic but I don't think that's "curious" at all. It's basic human nature to promote the good and look the other way or minimize the bad. 

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9 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

That's super interesting. Can you unpack more? I'm surprised to hear you say America First is fine. 

America first should be fine..just like family first.   Never understood why that statement bothers some people.  Make sure your own house is in order before helping others get theirs in order.

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8 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

That's super interesting. Can you unpack more? I'm surprised to hear you say America First is fine. 

I think 'America first' is a fine way to look at things. Trump used that as a tag line during his campaign. I can surely see looking out for our citizens first. Doing things like pulling out of the Paris Agreement is a sign that he doesn't care about the world at all. His biggest concerns, in order, are himself, his kids, other wealthy Americans, everyone else.

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1 hour ago, timschochet said:

Absolutely the good guy. Sometimes the white knight. 

We’re about to celebrate the 75th anniversary of D-Day. Now, that was done with allies: British, Canadians, free French, etc., but essentially it was us. We saved Western Europe (and the world) from the Nazis. Think about that. Only a few years later we had the Marshall Plan and the Berlin Airlift and we saved Western Europe (and the world) from Stalinist Russia. 

The two greatest evils in the history of human civilization and we stopped them. We were the white knight then. 

As you say, 75 years ago. The current US is a significantly different entity than that was.

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8 minutes ago, Da Guru said:

America first should be fine..just like family first.   Never understood why that statement bothers some people.  Make sure your own house is in order before helping others get theirs in order.

It's not all bad to a certain extent.  Sometimes helping other countries can be beneficial to us though and I don't think Trump thinks about that at all, nor do a lot of people for that matter.

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Everyone trying to turn this into a focus on Trump (of course). Ignoring the facts of Bush initiating (illegally) war in the ME, and then Obama expanding it, all in our neverending bloodlust for oil. Countless other oil acquisition wars (again subtly disguised as regime change wars with full compliance from the MSM). Thousands of innocent ME civilians and children killed by our missiles. Supplying terrorist organizations arms (which came to power through our irresponsibility in the region).

And that isn't even including anything domestically.

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8 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

I think 'America first' is a fine way to look at things. Trump used that as a tag line during his campaign. I can surely see looking out for our citizens first. Doing things like pulling out of the Paris Agreement is a sign that he doesn't care about the world at all. His biggest concerns, in order, are himself, his kids, other wealthy Americans, everyone else.

Thanks. I agree with you but I'm surprised to hear you think that. Guess maybe my crystal ball isn't as good as I thought... ;)

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12 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

I think 'America first' is a fine way to look at things. Trump used that as a tag line during his campaign. I can surely see looking out for our citizens first. Doing things like pulling out of the Paris Agreement is a sign that he doesn't care about the world at all. His biggest concerns, in order, are himself, his kids, other wealthy Americans, everyone else.

First off it’s historically related to a very bad form of isolationism (see Charles Lindbergh). 

Second it’s a very simplistic way of looking at the world, and it ignores our international commitments. 

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9 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

It's not all bad to a certain extent.  Sometimes helping other countries can be beneficial to us though and I don't think Trump thinks about that at all, nor do a lot of people for that matter.

I agree I am all for helping others when we can.  Sad truth is there are so many things that need fixing here and this was way before Trump.

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1 minute ago, Da Guru said:

I agree I am all for helping others when we can.  Sad truth is there are so many things that need fixing here and this was way before Trump.

Very true.  I haven't seen Trump fix anything though, just causing even more division in my opinion.

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24 minutes ago, ShamrockPride said:

Everyone trying to turn this into a focus on Trump (of course). Ignoring the facts of Bush initiating (illegally) war in the ME, and then Obama expanding it, all in our neverending bloodlust for oil. Countless other oil acquisition wars (again subtly disguised as regime change wars with full compliance from the MSM). Thousands of innocent ME civilians and children killed by our missiles. Supplying terrorist organizations arms (which came to power through our irresponsibility in the region).

And that isn't even including anything domestically.

I agree with a lot of this which is why I never viewed America as the White Knight.  But on a scale of Bad->Good, we were always (imho) closer to the "good" side.  I see America sliding more towards the "bad" as we alienate our allies and embrace the dictators.

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I think America is trending up, we are certainly a better global role model now than at any time in history.

 

America is leading edge when it comes to racism, sexism,  and religious intolerance. If you think it is bad here, just go visit one of the other countries.  Also look at America's past to see how these groups of people were treated. Now is the best time in history to be someone other than a straight, white, male in america.

 

Overall the amount of atrocities has gone way down, native americans, slavery, japanese internement camps, etc, and we do not colonize other countries like we used to, Philippines, etc.

 

We also provide tons of aid to many poor people/countries around the world, with a somewhat ridiculous foreign aid budget.

 

We are not a white knight yet, however from a global perspective America is better now than we have ever been throughout history.

Edited by MTskibum
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7 minutes ago, Thunderlips said:

The United States is like Boromir from Lord of the Rings....... an entity that, in its heart, is good.....and has historically fought for good and the just.......but who occasionally has a couple of bad moments.  

I like this idea better than the poll.

The United States is like Tom Cruise's cameo in Tropic Thunder .... everyone knows that there's an incredibly powerful, striking and influential figure under there somewhere, which makes it even more hilarious and absurd that it is currently acting like an irrational, petulant buffoon.

Edited by TobiasFunke
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13 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

I like this idea better than the poll.

The United States is like Tom Cruise's cameo in Tropic Thunder .... everyone knows that there's an incredibly powerful, striking and influential figure under there somewhere, which makes it even more hilarious and absurd that it is currently acting like an irrational, petulant buffoon.

Tom Cruise all day long. 

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4 hours ago, NCCommish said:

Is the US government evil? It certainly can be. Ask the Iranians who suffered under the Shah or the Iraqis that suffered under Saddam. Those were both our guys and they murdered, tortured and disappeared people as they saw fit. Ask the Yemenis what they think as our bombs and our support kill them. And really that just scratching the surface. 

Are the American people as a whole evil? No I think they are so busy trying to survive that things happening a world away seem illusory and to far removed from the daily struggle to fixate on. 

That's why I voted not evil but absolutely the bad guy.  Although I would change it to "too often the bad guy". We aren't and really never were the John Wayne character in this movie.

I voted “somewhat the good guy”-as an “in sum” vote. But It would be as easy for me to vote as you did, for innumerable reasons. The things we’ve done in South America too.

I do think we’ve been, or were, an ideal that had significant value in a global sense but it’s difficult to claim any moral superiority in its execution. Nor do I think “the people” as a whole are evil, but we have our share for sure. 

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I think there has always been some good with the bad.  Until very recently, the good outweighed the bad.  now, I feel like we are absconding from our international agreements and turning our backs to our friends (including our Latin American friends south of the Rio Grande), etc.  Lots less good.  So now, IMO we are a solid "meh", just like most other countries in the world.

America First = we lose what makes us special.

Edited by moleculo
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5 hours ago, TobiasFunke said:

I like this idea better than the poll.

The United States is like Tom Cruise's cameo in Tropic Thunder .... everyone knows that there's an incredibly powerful, striking and influential figure under there somewhere, which makes it even more hilarious and absurd that it is currently acting like an irrational, petulant buffoon.

 

I think its more like Darth Vader. There's definitely a good dude underneath there. And maybe he will take off his mask and the good will return. 

But that good mostly died a long time ago. And now we just trying to destroy Luke Mexico.

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If we didn't need the rest of the world's oil, we could be a white knight and just help when and where needed. 

But since we do need that oil, we are somewhat the bad guy given we have to cater to our own self interests, which sometimes means "helping" when that's not really what we're doing there. 

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15 minutes ago, Politician Spock said:

If we didn't need the rest of the world's oil, we could be a white knight and just help when and where needed. 

But since we do need that oil, we are somewhat the bad guy given we have to cater to our own self interests, which sometimes means "helping" when that's not really what we're doing there. 

We could have been working toward that for years. But we haven't. We pursued all of the above instead. So here we are. Still dancing on the strings of despots. 

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