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Darwin Thompson, Chiefs RB


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I don't get the recent hype on Thompson. I compare it a little bit to Darrell Henderson where people are confusing situation for talent. At 200 pounds, you better be ultra-dynamic with high-end escapability traits. That's not Thompson.

I totally understand taking a flier on him in that offense, but the price has now risen above the value, IMO.

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It's a natural selection  

People seem to be getting a bit too excited right now.  From early accounts, looks like the injuries to both Shady and Williams are minor.  I’m a Thompson owner, too, but don’t expect him to be r

16 page thread for a 4th string running back. Sheesh. 

6 minutes ago, Football Jones said:

I don't get the recent hype on Thompson. I compare it a little bit to Darrell Henderson where people are confusing situation with talent. At 200 pounds, you better be ultra-dynamic with high-end escapability traits. That's not Thompson.

I totally understand taking a flier on him in that offense, but the price has now risen above the value, IMO.

 

His ADP has moved up 3 spots since the drafts immediately after the NFL draft.  He was rookie RB9 then and he is rookie RB9 now.  So he was a good flier at 3.11 but now is too risky at 3.08?

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3 minutes ago, Bronco Billy said:

 

His ADP has moved up 3 spots since the drafts immediately after the NFL draft.  He was rookie RB9 then and he is rookie RB9 now.  So he was a good flier at 3.11 but now is too risky at 3.08?

He's being drafted higher than 3.8 in many leagues. I first saw him go in the 4th (which is ok). Now it's as early as the late-2nd.

Even in this dud class, that's too early for what amounts to a flier.

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5 hours ago, Football Jones said:

I don't get the recent hype on Thompson. I compare it a little bit to Darrell Henderson where people are confusing situation for talent. At 200 pounds, you better be ultra-dynamic with high-end escapability traits. That's not Thompson.

I totally understand taking a flier on him in that offense, but the price has now risen above the value, IMO.

Thompson graded out very high in skills.  Regarding escapability, no one averaged more missed tackles per run last year in college football than Thompson (I believe it was around .32). He blocks and catches well.  But, if you are asking, his draft stock is rising because of just how high he graded out.  His biggest issues seem to be size (5'8") and speed (4.52).   At 200 lbs, I am thinking his comparable is MJD.  Both have a terrific dead leg move.  

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9 hours ago, Football Jones said:

He's being drafted higher than 3.8 in many leagues. I first saw him go in the 4th (which is ok). Now it's as early as the late-2nd.

Even in this dud class, that's too early for what amounts to a flier.

I agree with the class rating. Which is why I don’t mind looking at a guy who was drafted by a top 5 offense in the late second/early third. I can understand not loving him as a prospect but he is not without talent. Not sure there is much more upside at that point comparably.

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4 hours ago, Hairy Snowman said:

He blocks and catches wel

I can't find a scoring report that says anything good about his pass blocking.  They're all really negative about it or fantasy football people ignoring it completely.  There was one article that suggested he could get good at it because he was strong for his size, but the implication was that he was not good at it yet. 

Here's some examples. 

Pass Protection - Lacks an NFL future here -- frame limitations all but preclude him from being an effective pass protector, and what little hope is left is eliminated by a milquetoast approach to the responsibility.

https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/darwin-thompson

WEAKNESSES:  He gets swallowed by blitzing defend- ers in pass protection and no amount of technical work will allow him to overcome his ability to be trusted with those responsibilities. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.arrowheadpride.com/platform/amp/2019/4/27/18520320/nfl-draft-results-chiefs-select-utah-state-rb-darwin-thompson-at-no-214

Weaknesses

clearly on the low end of NFL-caliber from a size standpoint;

shows extremely little in terms of pass-blocking ability;

https://lastwordonprofootball.com/2019/04/03/darwin-thompson-2019-nfl-draft-profile/

Weaknesses

I wasn’t left impressed at all with his pass blocking ability. While his receiving ability may get him on the field in some 3rd down situations his blocking will get him removed as well if he doesn’t improve his technique. He doesn’t properly set himself and square up instead he lunges for his man, often missing or not making good enough contact.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hogshaven.com/platform/amp/2019/2/19/18227110/darwin-thompson-is-electric-but-is-he-the-dynamic-running-back-the-redskins-need

When you put a throwaway line in there saying that he blocks and catches well, it sounds like you have real information to share.  But a quick search stress the opposite.  And pass blocking is hugely important for this kid to get on the field.  They aren't going to put mahomes at risk.  

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1 hour ago, bostonfred said:

I can't find a scoring report that says anything good about his pass blocking.  They're all really negative about it or fantasy football people ignoring it completely.  There was one article that suggested he could get good at it because he was strong for his size, but the implication was that he was not good at it yet. 

Here's some examples. 

Pass Protection - Lacks an NFL future here -- frame limitations all but preclude him from being an effective pass protector, and what little hope is left is eliminated by a milquetoast approach to the responsibility.

https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/darwin-thompson

WEAKNESSES:  He gets swallowed by blitzing defend- ers in pass protection and no amount of technical work will allow him to overcome his ability to be trusted with those responsibilities. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.arrowheadpride.com/platform/amp/2019/4/27/18520320/nfl-draft-results-chiefs-select-utah-state-rb-darwin-thompson-at-no-214

Weaknesses

clearly on the low end of NFL-caliber from a size standpoint;

shows extremely little in terms of pass-blocking ability;

https://lastwordonprofootball.com/2019/04/03/darwin-thompson-2019-nfl-draft-profile/

Weaknesses

I wasn’t left impressed at all with his pass blocking ability. While his receiving ability may get him on the field in some 3rd down situations his blocking will get him removed as well if he doesn’t improve his technique. He doesn’t properly set himself and square up instead he lunges for his man, often missing or not making good enough contact.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hogshaven.com/platform/amp/2019/2/19/18227110/darwin-thompson-is-electric-but-is-he-the-dynamic-running-back-the-redskins-need

When you put a throwaway line in there saying that he blocks and catches well, it sounds like you have real information to share.  But a quick search stress the opposite.  And pass blocking is hugely important for this kid to get on the field.  They aren't going to put mahomes at risk.  

I tend to look at statistics on Pro Football Focus.  If you pay for the premium statistics, they do a complete mapping of all the college prospects' skill sets.  That is where I get it from. 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/tools

Look at the draft guide. 

ADVANCED STATS STAT RANK
ELUSIVE RATING 176.6  (#1 in draft class)
BREAKAWAY PERCENTAGE 50.5%  (#7 in draft class)
YARDS PER ROUTE RUN 1.91 (#8 in draft class)
DROP RATE 7.7% (#47 in draft class)
PASS-BLOCKING EFFICIENCY 97.1 (#29 in draft class)
% NOT TACKLED ON 1ST CONTACT 41.7%  (#7 in draft class)

PS I rarely look at other people's opinions.  Mostly just statistics and eyeball. He does grade out well. 

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1 hour ago, Hairy Snowman said:

I tend to look at statistics on Pro Football Focus.  If you pay for the premium statistics, they do a complete mapping of all the college prospects' skill sets.  That is where I get it from. 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/tools

Look at the draft guide. 

ADVANCED STATS STAT RANK
ELUSIVE RATING 176.6  (#1 in draft class)
BREAKAWAY PERCENTAGE 50.5%  (#7 in draft class)
YARDS PER ROUTE RUN 1.91 (#8 in draft class)
DROP RATE 7.7% (#47 in draft class)
PASS-BLOCKING EFFICIENCY 97.1 (#29 in draft class)
% NOT TACKLED ON 1ST CONTACT 41.7%  (#7 in draft class)

PS I rarely look at other people's opinions.  Mostly just statistics and eyeball. He does grade out well. 

Oh ok.  If we're throwing out his size and all of the scouting reports i quoted because you trust PFF more, i can understand that. 

There were 53 running backs in this draft class according to pff. Average would be 27th. So 29th makes him just below average. 

But you said he blocks and catches well.  Is there some kind of context that suggests he'll block well in the NFL?  For example, did Thompson block some of the top pass rushers in college football?

And you said he catches well. Can you help me to understand this statistic from pro football reference?

DROP RATE 7.7% (#47 in draft class)

Does that mean he catches well?  

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52 minutes ago, bostonfred said:

Oh ok.  If we're throwing out his size and all of the scouting reports i quoted because you trust PFF more, i can understand that. 

There were 53 running backs in this draft class according to pff. Average would be 27th. So 29th makes him just below average. 

But you said he blocks and catches well.  Is there some kind of context that suggests he'll block well in the NFL?  For example, did Thompson block some of the top pass rushers in college football?

And you said he catches well. Can you help me to understand this statistic from pro football reference?

DROP RATE 7.7% (#47 in draft class)

Does that mean he catches well?  

Relax.  Put the coffee down.  

How about he catches the ball adequately?  When I say "well", that is below "exceptionally well" or  "has elite catching skills".  Relax son. 

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1 hour ago, Hairy Snowman said:

Relax.  Put the coffee down.  

How about he catches the ball adequately?  When I say "well", that is below "exceptionally well" or  "has elite catching skills".  Relax son. 

That's the thing though.  People are talking about him like he's good, and the legend kind of grows.

Your post is exactly what I'm talking about.  

He's like MJD. I mean mjd was a second round pick who ran a 4.39 and was a dense 5 foot 7 207 while Tompson was a 6th round pick, ran a 4.53... at his pro day... and is an inch tayler and almost ten pounds lighter, but the important thing is that little guys aren't always bad. 

He pass blocks well.  Forget that all the scouting reports say he's really bad at it, pff says he's 29th in a class of 53, many of whom went undrafted, so he's actually good at it.  

He's incredibly elusive.  Go ahead and look up Paul Perkins and Derrick Henry and their elusive ratings in that draft class and tell me how much you trust that stat. You might be surprised.  

This was a bad rb class but somehow it was so deep that the chiefs felt they could wait on rb until the 6th and then get an undrafted free agent because they obviously plan to replace Damien Williams.  And the fact that they cut the UDFA is good news because it shows that they think Thompson is a stud, because they couldn't actually believe Damien Williams and Hyde and Darrell and a fullback are enough. 

It's a lot of wishful thinking. And i think a lot of it comes from people who are looking for ways to justify their feeling that Damien Williams isn't the guy, more than just looking at a prospect they think is actually good and trying to get ahead of the curve on the next big thing. Which is fine - rb is a position where opportunity can be more important than talent.

But it seems like a lot of people are just making stuff up to make Thompson sound better than he is.  That doesn't help any of us.

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"He's like MJD. I mean mjd was a second round pick who ran a 4.39 and was a dense 5 foot 7 207 while Tompson was a 6th round pick, ran a 4.53... at his pro day... and is an inch tayler and almost ten pounds lighter, but the important thing is that little guys aren't always bad."

I said they both had an excellent dead leg move.  The both do. 

"He pass blocks well.  Forget that all the scouting reports say he's really bad at it, "

But all of them don't.  That is the point.  I don't think he blocked as well as many of the prospects coming out, but that doesn't mean he sucks at it.  He wasn't asked to do it often, but the efficiency is not "bad".

"He's incredibly elusive.  Go ahead and look up Paul Perkins and Derrick Henry and their elusive ratings in that draft class and tell me how much you trust that stat. You might be surprised"

Where you end up playing, and who, matters.  Behind the Giants offensive line, in a bad offensive system or in Tennessee in a division with great fast defenses.  It matters.  

But tone it down Fred.  I am not looking at him as a first round talent.  I see him as part of a committee. 

And regarding Williams, I like his pass catching ability.  I am not sure he is going to take a year of pounding in this offense.  Hence why the backups may have a little more value. 

Just my take.  But either way, easy killer.

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DARWIN THOMPSON RB, KANSAS CITY CHIEFS

Chiefs OC Eric Bieniemy said preseason games will ultimately decide the running back depth chart behind Damien Williams.

Williams is currently sidelined with an injury, so Carlos Hyde, Darrel Williams, and sixth-round rookie Darwin Thompson (5'8/200) have split first-team reps during training camp practices. Hyde is presumably the No. 2 given his experience, but Thompson was a great all-around back at Utah State and showed 4.5 speed with a 39-inch vertical at his pre-draft workout. Even as handcuffs, Hyde and Thompson are worthwhile dart throws in the second half of fantasy drafts. They are the cheapest ways to have a part of this explosive Chiefs offense.

RELATED: 

Carlos Hyde

, Darrel Williams

SOURCE: The Athletic

Aug 4, 2019, 5:59 PM ET

 

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DT has been an auto draft in the 3rd round or later in all my Dynasty rookie drafts. That offense offers too much upside and there are no proven bellcows in his way. That is the recipe to get a shot. If Darwin gets a chance, and flashes, his value will go thru the roof. Plus, Waldman compared Darwin to Brian Westbrook. I’ll take a shot at that kind of production all day in the 3rd or late in redraft.

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Antonio Brown’s Helmet Drama Is Exactly What Jon Gruden and the Raiders Bargained For

Excerpt:

Quote

Keep an eye on Chiefs rookie Darwin Thompson. The sixth-round back out of Utah State is short, compact and strong, and already has shown the staff his ability to make people miss in space—a key in Andy Reid’s offense. As K.C. sees it, he runs a little like Darren Sproles (but doesn’t have Sproles’ return ability). And coordinator Eric Bieniemy likes the kid, and should help accelerate his development, with his background having played and coached the position.

 

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Against the Bengals, Darwin Thompson showed traits to contribute early 

Quote

 

 The rookie running back turned a lot of heads with his performance on Saturday

The bottom line

There’s a lot to like about the early returns on Darwin Thompson.

Some have suggested he’s due to be the starting running back at some point this year, but I still think he’s best in a complementary role; he never had more than 185 carries in his college career, and had only had 153 in his one year at Utah State. His opportunities could be limited by his pass protection ability.

 

Adam Teicher‏Verified account @adamteicher

The Chiefs just started teamwork and Damien Williams is RB1

6:48 AM - 12 Aug 2019

------------------------------------

Brandon Kiley‏ @BKSportsTalk

Based on playing time, it seems like the top 4 RBs for the #Chiefs are:

1) Damien Williams 2) Carlos Hyde

3) Darrel Williams

4) Darwin Thompson

Damien‘s been getting the majority of the #1 reps. Hyde getting a few. Darrel got a couple. Darwin working almost exclusively w/ 3’s.

8:16 AM - 12 Aug 2019

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Coach Andy Reid said sixth-round RB Darwin Thompson is more advanced than they thought he would be when they drafted him.

"He’s got good vision in the run game," Reid explained. "And then he’s got a pretty good understanding of the pass game." This preseason, we've seen just that. Thompson has had a handful of big plays already and looks a lot more explosive than Carlos Hyde, who is Thompson's primary competitor for snaps. Damien Williams remains the Chiefs' starter, but it's going to be hard for Kansas City to completely keep Thompson off the field if he continues to show well. Expect Thompson to be a low-volume, change-of-pace back to start the season.

Seems like more and more folks are subscribing to the theory that Darwin May push Williams at some point.

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Done a lot of best ball drafts to this point and Darwin thru the middle to late July was my 18th round pick. He Probably wouldn’t have been drafted at all. In the last two weeks I’ve seen him go as high as the 10th round and routinely going off the board between rounds 12 & 13. Meaning, his value is shot and I’m not drafting him anymore. But the kid can play. I think he flat out beats Hyde for the #2 spot. 

He remins me of Andy’s BOY, Brian Westbrook. 

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8 minutes ago, jerseys finest said:

Done a lot of best ball drafts to this point and Darwin thru the middle to late July was my 18th round pick. He Probably wouldn’t have been drafted at all. In the last two weeks I’ve seen him go as high as the 10th round and routinely going off the board between rounds 12 & 13. Meaning, his value is shot and I’m not drafting him anymore. But the kid can play. I think he flat out beats Hyde for the #2 spot. 

He remins me of Andy’s BOY, Brian Westbrook. 

He looked great & Waldman thought he was the 2nd best RB in the draft.

(Dynasty only....probably not worth it in redraft, but I’ll take him late if he’s there.)

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3 hours ago, ChuckLiddell said:

Got him at 25 overall in a dynasty draft, psyched about that value.  Just posting now to get the thread marked in my feed going forward.

Dynasty rookie draft I assume? 

... that’s unfortunate as a Damien Williams owner that doesn’t own a 2nd rounder. Was hoping he would fall into the 3rd. 

Balls.

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46 minutes ago, Ray Barboni said:

Dynasty rookie draft I assume? 

... that’s unfortunate as a Damien Williams owner that doesn’t own a 2nd rounder. Was hoping he would fall into the 3rd. 

Balls.

We had our rookie draft back in May, and I managed to get him at the 4.05. But that was before all this hype. I would suspect he doesn’t make it to the 3rd at this point, but you never know. 

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You'd have to believe in DW lasting as a starter to keep Thompson off the field. I have zero faith on DW's ability to hold down that job.he has just 139 touches to his name in the past 2 seasons. I just don't see him magically holding up for 235 carries, 50 recs and so on. I'm sure Reid plans to use DT as a Tarik Cohen type, same offense as Nagy's right? DT with more upside since he has less talent in front of him ( DW and Hyde are lesser backs - Hyde might not even make the team). 

Reid was quoted as saying that DT is another Brian Westbrook  - after seeing how he looks so far,  that's pretty much all I need to hear. he's got a real shot at making a huge impact as a rookie. 

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Quote

Rookie running back Darwin Thompson looks like he will have a bigger role when the season begins than is normal for a sixth-round draft pick. Thompson was the third back into the game on Saturday night against the Steelers, following Damien Williams and Carlos Hyde. Thompson sparked the Chiefs’ only touchdown drive by rushing for 30 yards. He scored a touchdown in the preseason opener against the Bengals by taking a short pass and running 29 yards to the end zone. Chiefs coach Andy Reid said Thompson is more advanced at this stage than the Chiefs thought he would be when they drafted him. “He’s able to see the blitz, which is a big thing for the young guys,’’ Reid said. “He’s got good vision in the run game and then he’s got a pretty good understanding of the pass game. He’s really a focused kid. He’s kind of no-nonsense, wants to do it right, real focused, studies a lot. I like the way he’s made up that way.’’

Adam Teicher, ESPN Staff Writer

 

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12 hours ago, Tanner9919 said:

You'd have to believe in DW lasting as a starter to keep Thompson off the field. I have zero faith on DW's ability to hold down that job.he has just 139 touches to his name in the past 2 seasons. I just don't see him magically holding up for 235 carries, 50 recs and so on. I'm sure Reid plans to use DT as a Tarik Cohen type, same offense as Nagy's right? DT with more upside since he has less talent in front of him ( DW and Hyde are lesser backs - Hyde might not even make the team). 

Reid was quoted as saying that DT is another Brian Westbrook  - after seeing how he looks so far,  that's pretty much all I need to hear. he's got a real shot at making a huge impact as a rookie. 

I have seen similar posts like this in the DW thread....I guess I don't get it.....he has never had the opportunity to get a heavy load so how do we know he can't "hold up" to it....he has always been a journeyman back up.....based probably on talent and having a RB1 in front of him.....but we really have no idea if DW can "hold up" or not...?....he very well could....we don't really have evidence of him "breaking down" because of "usage"....it has mostly been a depth chart issue...I don't recall him ever being anointed the "starter" and not "holding up".......:shrug:

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2 hours ago, BigAl21 said:

I’ll be moving him up my board a few rounds just to assure I land him. Don’t mind reaching when the payoff can be big.

I’ve done this with Singletary as well. Think both have great possibilities.

Also been impressed with Hill and Mattison but think the path to relevance is a little harder.

I’m glad we don’t have positional roster limits, I might end up with 8-9 RBs Sunday (I don’t draft a K or DST....two IR spots if anybody is declared out I won’t have to make a drop to pick up a streamer.) 

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Brian Westbrook  5'10" 203lbs.   3rd RD  Villanova

 

Jamaal Charles  5'11"  199lbs.  3rd RD  Texas

 

Darwin Thompson  5'8" 201lbs.  6th RD  Utah State

 

........  seems to fit the Andy Reid mold (and has more talent than D Will) ......    don't leave your draft without him

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Where's he at in dynasty rookie ranks

I'm picking at 9 tonight and I've got him ranked #10 at this point.  Which seems absurdly high.  

Right now I'm thinking

Montgomery

Jacobs

Sanders

Harry

Henderson

Kyler

Campbell

JJAW

And even then I'm asking if I really want to take Campbell or JJAW over the KC RB2 when I'm actively avoiding Damien Williams in redraft.  Is it nuts to take this dude in the 1st?

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I was offered Courtland Sutton, Damien Harris, Will Fuller and a 2020 late 1st for:

Darwin, Russ Wilson, Hyde, David Moore and 2 thrids.

One QB league and I am set at QB with Lamar Jax and Dak, so Wilson is not the holdup...its Darwin.  I know its a rich offer and on paper an easy accept, but I have a feeling about Darwin and I am really hesitating on a deal that I would have auto-accepted and danced the jig in my office for last week.  Harris went 2.2, and Darwin 3.1 in my draft this past Saturday.

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1 minute ago, ChuckLiddell said:

I was offered Courtland Sutton, Damien Harris, Will Fuller and a 2020 late 1st for:

Darwin, Russ Wilson, Hyde, David Moore and 2 thrids.

One QB league and I am set at QB with Lamar Jax and Dak, so Wilson is not the holdup...its Darwin.  I know its a rich offer and on paper an easy accept, but I have a feeling about Darwin and I am really hesitating on a deal that I would have auto-accepted and danced the jig in my office for last week.  Harris went 2.2, and Darwin 3.1 in my draft this past Saturday.

I like Darwin too,  but that might would be hard to turn down. You’re getting rid of one guy(Hyde) who won’t even be on rosters in dynasty leagues in a couple weeks and another that’s debatable(Moore). 

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4 minutes ago, JoeJoe88 said:

I like Darwin too,  but that might would be hard to turn down. You’re getting rid of one guy(Hyde) who won’t even be on rosters in dynasty leagues in a couple weeks and another that’s debatable(Moore). 

Agree completely.  Its Wilson and Darwin for Sutton, Fuller, Harris, and a late 1st next year when you take out all of the excess noise.

I still hesitate even though I know I should take it.  Darwin feels like a potential league winner type to me.

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22 minutes ago, ChuckLiddell said:

Agree completely.  Its Wilson and Darwin for Sutton, Fuller, Harris, and a late 1st next year when you take out all of the excess noise.

I still hesitate even though I know I should take it.  Darwin feels like a potential league winner type to me.

Something still has to happen to Damien for that to happen, in my personal opinion. I expect Damien to be the lead back and pretty much take over where he left off last season. Now can Darwin still have value even if Dame is the lead back? Certainly. But I feel it would take an injury for Darwin to be a league-winner this season. 

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Just now, PhantomJB said:

Yep. Same as last year with Nick Chubb. That turned out okay.

Ugh, little different scenario there.  Nick Chubb was a highly touted prospect and second round pick in the NFL draft.  Had it not been for the horrific knee injury he suffered in college, we would have been debating Saquon vs Chubb for the 1.01.

Darwin has one Division 1 year of football under his belt, and was a 6th round pick.

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Just now, PhantomJB said:

Yep. Same as last year with Nick Chubb. That turned out okay.

Yes he's exactly like nick chubb

Unrelated story, I remember when a Denver rb was compared to Barry Sanders. His name was Q. I can't remember his full name anymore.  Quentin something maybe? Does anyone remember? 

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2 minutes ago, PhantomJB said:

Yep. Same as last year with Nick Chubb. That turned out okay.

I would say that I view these similarly.  Chubb was obviously a better prospect out of college, but Thompson has looked the part so far and I think Williams is no harder to beat out on the depth chart that Hyde was last year.  Even better is Reid is more rational than the Browns coaching at the beginning of last season.  

I am willing to take a dart throw at Thompson in redraft in 10-11th rounds to see what he can become in 5-6 weeks.  

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