dickey moe
Fingerpicker
The Great White HopZenoRazon said:
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Witness history being made..... (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter ZenoRazon
- Start date
northern exposure
Footballguy
Great story. But, I'm gonna need to know the race of everybody involved in the story to truly appreciate it, ok?ZenoRazon said:
While in a Kansas High School NFL RB to be John Riggins (lighter than the 240 Redskin) won the State Championship in 9.8 yards.
Packer WR Jordy Nelson also a Kansas State 100m champ, don't know his time.
Riggins the first 1000 yard rusher for both the Jets and Redskins.
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Bolt started off as a 400m, but was simply too lazy to put in the training that event takes, so he got more into the 200m. And that was his event for years, with a once in awhile 400/4x4 relay. But, he kept bugging his coach about running the 100m, the belief was he was simply too tall to have the start. Yep, wrong.
What seperates Bolt from everybody else is his speed endurance, he is on a whole other level there and it is due to all those years of training as a 200/400 cat. No other stud 100m cats started out like he did.
What is happening is this....
World class sprinters hit that topend/max velocity around 60/70ish meters, once there now it's that sustain/maintain as high as % of that TE/MV as you can, this is speed endurance. Then around 85ish here comes that decelleration phase, those who decellerate slower because of superior SE have a huge advantage. Bolt doesn't hit his TE/MV until later in a 100m, he's more 80ish so....if he can sustain/maintain up into 90ish his decelleration phase will be tiny. So more of his race is acelleration/topend/max velocity than anyone else, less time decellerating. Of course a 6-5 stride is totally unique at 100m also.
Actually Joe Perry was also the first NFL RB to ever have consecutive 1000 yards seasons and STILL the onlY 1000 yard rusher with just a JC education, he was out of Compton JC.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B9IniYmF2M
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What's not to get? Talking about a fast white HS sprinter which is a rarity, is it all that complex?
What's is with you people? Who needs an alias? Why would anyone do that silly BS? i sure in the hell don't play that immature little kid silliness.
That's as ridiculous as.....you're a troll...hahahaha~
Been doing this as long as anyone here, I don't troll, don't use multi's, ok?
Who here was talking all those who beat Jesse Owens n a 100? Who here was talking Texas piano players in the 1920's? Who here was talking who did back up Jim Brown? Let me guess......nobody.
Anyone who needs an alias is a sad little twek.
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It all changed in the early 60's with the emergence of Bullet Bob Hayes. Up until then whire sprinter were holding their own, hell they won the 52 Lindy Remigino, 56 Bobby Morrow. 60 Armin Hary Olympic 100m.
Hayes started running times never seen before and at 5-11 190 was massive for a world class sprinter. He was actually just a fast football player. The 60's also had Jimmy Hines, Charlie Greene, Tommie Smith a total freak of nature, BUT......USSR sprinter Valery Borzov did win the 72 Olympic 100/200 which was the last stand for white sprinters, since then it's been western African roots sprinters pretty much dominating. A fast white sprinter did become a rarity.
We can't talk Boling and not tell the real story.
Penguin
Footballguy
Frank Budd who was a good friend and classmate of my father at Long Branch High school way back when ran a world record 9.2 100 yard dash in 1961. In 1962 he ran a world record 20 flat 200 meter. It is claimed that Budd, feeilng a twinge in a muscle, was easing-up the last 70 meters. Hand timed but 20 flat for 200 meters (not yards) 57 years ago is impressive. Another note: Amazingly. Budd achieved his success despite a deformed right calf, the legacy of a childhood disease, possibly polio.
As you can see Budd was the top ranked sprinter in the world in 1961.
1961
1
....................................
Frank Budd (US)
2
..................
Dennis Johnson (Jamaica)
3
........................
Harry Jerome (Canada)
4
...............................
Livio Berruti (Italy)
5
....................................
Bob Hayes (US)
6
....................
Seraphino Antao (Kenya)
7
............................
Marian Foik (Poland)
8
..................
Jocelyn Delecour (France)
9
.................
David Jones (Great Britain)
10 ................................
Dave James (US
He was out of Villanova which also had Paul Drayton another great sprinter at that time. Budd did try the NFL (Eagles) football not his thing it appears.
He was histories first 9.2 sprinter.
You obviously know who he is here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dHzg8k4IO8
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Really don't get what is going on with this do ya?
White sprinters don't run 9.98 here in the USA. AND...high school kids don't run a 9.98.
If you know sprinting you get just how big a deal this is. We had never seen this before, ever.
Try talking the Jackie Robinson story without talking race, good luck. Try talking the Rolling Stones with no mention of Elmore James and them black blues.
Short Corner
Footballguy
White track stars lack of relative success is not because they aren't allowed to compete. It's not that difficult Xeno.
northern exposure
Footballguy
I totally agree it's not difficult at all, it's real simple. Those with roots to western Africa have unique physical attributes more suited for quickness, speed and leaping ability in athletic events.
Being this is a thread about athletes which Joe Perry is who do you think fits here? Keep in mind this Joe Perry was called "The Jet".
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northern exposure
Footballguy
I don't know Joe Perry's nickname. I do know they called Eric Clapton "Slowhand" though.Slash from GNR has a good nickname too.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I'm way outside my area of expertise here, but I don't think this is true. My understanding of it is that the "physical attributes" in question are genes that are more prevalent in West Africans, but not in any way shape or form unique to them. The reason they excel is that the prevalence of those genes leads to a cultural emphasis on sprinting that results in identifying the people with this genetic makeup at a young age, which makes it more likely they can become a world class sprinter. And, correspondingly, more chance that one or more of those world class sprinters will become Olympic final caliber sprinters. That doesn't mean that the West Africans have an advantage over the rare non-West Africans who share those particular genetic traits, however.
This is why, for example, Japan was able to come in second in the 4 x 100 relay in Rio and China was able to come in fourth. They don't have nearly as many people who have that genetic makeup, but since they have a much larger population than, say, Jamaica, and because they have a culture that at least pays some attention to Olympic events and track more specifically, they were able to locate and train enough of them to put together a world class relay. If the physical attribute was unique to people with West African heritage there's no way that people of Chinese heritage would be able to compete at that level.
Here's the article I got this from- it's from a "why does India suck at track and field" perspective but it explains all this stuff and talks about the 4 x 100 at Rio.
All that to say there's nothing all that special about a white dude running super fast, other than it being amazing regardless of his race at that age. He's the same as the West African dudes, except that fewer of his racial peers share his special genetic makeup.
Anyway, we have to have some geneticist around here who understand this stuff better than me, a random nerd who read a couple articles. There used to be a Duke guy in the ACC basketball threads who did this for a living, I think. @Genedoc maybe? Haven't seen or heard from him in years.
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Why are you ignoring what this thread is actually about? A rocker isn't it......obviously.
Galileo
Footballguy
There's a lot of wrong here, buddy. It would be a disadvantage to hit your top speed that late in the race. Hitting top speed early and sustaining it would be the best scenario. No way Bolt doesn't hit top speed before 80m. Also, if you are a 100 m sprinter, it is probably best if you do NOT decelerate until AFTER you cross the damn finish line, unless of course you are saving yourself for a later heat or you are already winning by a comfortable margin and just want to start your early celebration.
Why do Nigerians look totally different physically from Kenyan? Why do Samoans look totally different physically from Filipino's? Where are those 220 pounders white NFL RB's with 4.4 jets?
Are you saying we don't see dramatic differences in physiques out there?
Just one of many....
The study of race and athletic performance is best described as
intriguing but immature. Geneticist Claude Bouchard of Laval
University in Quebec has determined that certain human athletic
traits, such as anaerobic power and training capacity, have a
powerful genetic component, suggesting that, to a significant
extent, athletes are born, not made. One Bouchard study that
compared black West Africans with white French Canadians found a
higher percentage of fast-twitch muscle fibers and anaerobic
enzymes--both thought to be essential to explosive sprinting--in
the West Africans, but Bouchard is the first to point out that
he was not studying athletes. Until he does, he can only
speculate about how the differences he found relate to athletic
performance.
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Wrong.
First off NOBODY can run a 100m without a decelleration phase, no exceptions.
Yes, it is a huge advantage hitting topend late in a 100m, that saves the amount of distance a sprinter is in that sustain/maintain phase or the speed endurance phase.
Bolt takes longer to get up to his topend than what is considered normal, this is a known fact.
I was a sprinter in high school (10.4 100 yards) I'm not guessing at this stuff.
Galileo
Footballguy
Aren't you the one who loves to tell people to Google it...
10m split times from world record show top speed hit right about 50 m
More split times from Bolt and others. Asafa Powell's split times from '05 do not show any deceleration, nor do Mo's in '99 or '01. Others are slight, and I speculate may be endurance related more than anything else.
chet
Footballguy
McJose
Footballguy
What are you talking about? The chart is telling you what I;m telling you. I actually was using that chart, see where it says....Bolt won because of speed endurance? Well, when does speed endurance come into play, yep...80m mark.
That chart shows what I;m talking abouy.
Here it is very individualistic, some never improve on what they did in HS, while others are running their PR in their 30's. There is no "one size fits all;' with this.
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McJose
Footballguy
Galileo
Footballguy
The chart shows max velocity well before 80m. I am not arguing sustainability. Clearly being able to sustain top speed is desired. You said he didn't hit max speed until 80 m. That is flat wrong. And if your strategy in a 100 m sprint is to slow down (decelerate) before the finish, you are doing it wrong. Clearly some people can not help it as they do not have the endurance to maintain, but they are not willfully decelerating as part of some sort design which is the way you implied it.
Galileo
Footballguy
Look at Bolts topend and how long he held it, and there are other races just not that one. It is a known fact his topend comes later than most. Not my opinion.
It's not a matter of stragedy, there is no stragedy in a 100m, it's about human capabilities. We simply can't run 100m all out, it isn't possible. So it's not about choice it's about you have no choice.
Look, you are trying way too hard here to...YOU ARE WRONG. First off you are reading the charts wrong if you aren't seeing that decelleration phase , and if you think there are sprinters who can run a 100 all out you have no business even talking sprinting.
NOBOBY....make that....NOBODY...can run 100m all out, that is impossible.
http://speedendurance.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/how-to-run-the-100m1.jpg
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No sprinters hit max that early on in a 100m.
It's pretty much...
0-10...start...10-50ish accelleration...50-90..hitting topend, sustaining topend and losing topend....90ish-fiinish ...deceleration phase. It does vary with athlete but pretty much like that.
So when we see a football 40 we never see that topend/sustain/decelleration phase, all we see is the start/acceleration.
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northern exposure
Footballguy
Pfft. I ran a 10.2 100 yard dash in high school. Slowpoke. Hell, I ran a 10.3 last week.
McJose
Footballguy
northern exposure
Footballguy
Galileo
Footballguy
I don't have the time, nor desire, to give you a lesson on measurement and data analysis right now. If you want to let your opinion trump the data, then that's on you. The data for Bolt in more than one race clearly shows a top speed before the 80 m mark which was your claim. The data for Powell clearly shows a race where he maintained his speed through the finish. I am not saying he ran top speed all 100m...he had to accelerate up to top speed, but then he maintained it the rest of the way.
northern exposure
Footballguy
There was a sprinter in the late 60's named Tommie Smith. He is the guy that had everyone thinking here is that exception to all the rules, that freak of nature,
He came on late in everything he ran, he looked like when he hit the tape he was at his fastest, it sure did look that way.
Just prior to the 68 Olympics out 4x1 team wanted a tune up race, so they faced a few teams at forget where. One of those teams had Tommie Smith on anchor, our USA team had the Olympic 100m champ to be Jimmy Hines on anchor.
At the final exchange Hines had a solid two meters on Smith, then here he came, he ran down the futhre "Worlds Fastest Human". Which ...see see the guy is a freak.
He came on late in everything he ran, he looked like when he hit the tape he was at his fastest, it sure did look that way.
Just prior to the 68 Olympics out 4x1 team wanted a tune up race, so they faced a few teams at forget where. One of those teams had Tommie Smith on anchor, our USA team had the Olympic 100m champ to be Jimmy Hines on anchor.
At the final exchange Hines had a solid two meters on Smith, then here he came, he ran down the futhre "Worlds Fastest Human". Which ...see see the guy is a freak.
nirad3
Footballguy
Trust me when I tell you this....you are so off on this it's comical. First off to even use the word....stragedy...in a 100m tells me you don't understand the event, then to talk as if athletes have some choice about that deceleration phase tells me you know....0...about sprinting,.
There are five phases in a 100m.
1.Block clearance/start
2.Acceleration
3.Hit topend
4.Maintain topend/Speed endurance
5.deccelerate
That is from Tom Tellez the guy who coached Carl Lewis. Not that we aren't all aware of that.
There is no such thing as a non decelleration 100m and that word....stragedy.,....hahahaha~~~
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Galileo
Footballguy
Why not Google....The Deceleration Phase in the 100m...? It's all there.
It is humanly impossibe to hold your topend longer than 10ish meters give or take. Everyone will deal with that deceleration phase, simply how it is.
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nirad3
Footballguy
Because you're a trainwreck. Not attitude, just saying. OK?
Edit to add: I wasn't even replying to you. So why the response?
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