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Witness history being made.....


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There is a chart that shows us this.

Worlds fastest sprinters at that time.

Ben Johnson...had a topend of 83, his final 10m 90

Carl Lewis  ...83/88

Mo Greene....83/91

Tim Montgomery..83/88

Asafa Powell....84/85

Usain Bolt....82/90

As we can see everyone decelerated, no exceptions.

 

Edited by ZenoRazon
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10 minutes ago, chet said:

What year did you run the 100y and when did high schools switch to the 100m?

I'm thinking it was around 1976ish that HS started running meters.  I ran back in the 60's.

It kinda goes like this.

100 yard 9.0/100m 9.9

9.1/10.00

9.2/10.10

9.3/10.20

9.4/10.30

9.5/10.40

Sorta.

 

Bullet Bob Hayes ran 9.1/10.06

Edited by ZenoRazon
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2 minutes ago, ZenoRazon said:

I'm thinking it was around 1976ish.

It kinda goes like this.

100 yard 9.0/100m 9.9

9.1/10.00

9.2/10.10

9.3/10.20

9.4/10.30

9.5/10.40

Sorta.

 

Bullet Bob Hayes ran 9.1/10.06

You were born ~1958?

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47 minutes ago, ZenoRazon said:

Why not Google....The Deceleration Phase in the 100m...?   It's all there.

It is humanly impossibe to hold your topend  longer than 10ish meters give or take.  Everyone will deal with that deceleration phase, simply how it is.

I have provided you with data to the contrary.  You just refuse to acknowledge it because it does not fit your paradigm.   Or, you simply don't understand measured data.  Whichever it may be is irrelevant because you are simply tone deaf to what I am saying.   Enjoy your delusion...   

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23 minutes ago, ZenoRazon said:

Always funny watching people on the internet, they always try so damn hard to battle everything.  Especially if you give the impression you know things.  It is comical to watch.

 

Are you looking in the mirror?

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3 minutes ago, Galileo said:

Are you looking in the mirror?

Look guy, been into this stuff for years, ok?  Noway anybody is telling me about "stragedy" in a 100m or these sprinters don't decelerate, ok?

Why not do what I asked and Google...deceleration phase 100m....ok?

Edited by ZenoRazon
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32 minutes ago, Galileo said:

I have provided you with data to the contrary.  You just refuse to acknowledge it because it does not fit your paradigm.   Or, you simply don't understand measured data.  Whichever it may be is irrelevant because you are simply tone deaf to what I am saying.   Enjoy your delusion...   

No you haven't,  you don't appear to understand that data.  If you are trying to sell sprinters aren't in a deceleration phase in a 100m you don't understand a 100m.

How it works.

 

Constant Speed Phase

The constant speed phase can be submaximal, maximal or supramaximal and is characterized by both the stride length and stride frequency remaining the same over a period of time. This phase is generally achieved between the 60 to 80 meter mark in men and 50 to 70 meter mark in women. In principle, the top sprinters can sustain this phase over a distance of 10 to 20 meters. The difference between elite and sub-elite sprinters is the frequency of stride, demonstrating that it is more important than the length of the stride.

Deceleration Phase

The last phase is categorized by a decrease in sprinting speed, usually occurring between the 80 and 100-meter mark in top sprinters. Velocity begins to decrease on a scale of .5 to 1.5 meters per second and is caused by central and peripheral fatigue. The decrease in speed is mainly caused by a decrease in stride frequency, as stride length and ground contact time is increased when compared to the third sprinting phase.

~~~~~~~~~

As I said, sprinters hit that topend then try to sustain it as long as possible (speed endurance) then slow as little as possible in that deceleration phase.BUT....all sprinters do decelerate just at different levels. NOBODY hits topend and then sustains that to the finish line, that is impossible.

Obviously if a guy trains for the 200 his speed endurance with be superior to someone who is more 60/100 and not 100/200.

Edited by ZenoRazon
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I am a glutton for punishment… This will be my last post on the subject.  Do with it whatever you like from this point forward.  

1.  You claimed Bolt hits top speed at about the 80 m mark in a race.  I provided data that clearly shows he hits top speed earlier...and he did so in both sets of race data that have been linked.

2. I am not denying the existence of a deceleration phase.  I was trying to make a point that it is not in a sprinter’s interest to decelerate before the finish line.  They are not decelerating by design (sorry you are hung up on the word strategy even though I used it as part of a conditional “if” statement.  I'll spare you the linguistics argument).  It is not something they want to do.  They decelerate because of limitations of endurance. You on I agree on this, but you are too stubborn to see that. If a sprinter can avoid decelerating, they would naturally put up a better race time.  I suspect you would agree on this point, yes?

I did provide you with an example of race data that shows it is not true that ALL sprinters in ALL races decelerate.  Asafa Powell does not decelerate in the sample provided. In the world of measurement, there is always a degree of uncertainty.  A value of 0.84 s is the same as a value of 0.85 s. You ever wonder why they are not timing things to the ten-thousandths place? It is not because tools don’t exist that are capable.  How precisely do you think they can even mark out a 10 m interval over which to time? +/- 100 mm? +/- 10 mm? +/- 1 mm? There are physical limitations to how precise measurements can be.  The last place value in a reported measurement is where the uncertainty lies. If you report 0.84, the true value could actually be 0.83...maybe it is 0.85. There is a range of uncertainty that must be acknowledged.  The ranges of uncertainty for 0.84s and 0.85s overlap. You can not claim any real difference between these measured values. Asafa Powell’s last 6 split intervals were 0.85, 0.85, 0.84, 0.84, 0.85, 0.85. THERE IS NO PHYSICALLY  MEANINGFUL DIFFERENCE in the measurements. Asafa Powell was running at a steady rate over the last half of that race...NO MEASURABLE DECELERATION. In contrast, Bolt’s times from 0.83 to 0.90 s does show a difference outside the range of uncertainty and is thus significant.  This is evidence for Bolt slowing down. See, I am not saying deceleration doesn’t occur. Clearly it does. But it is not an absolute.

At the 2017 World championships in London, Gatlin’s splits from 40-50m interval and on were 0.88s, 0.86s, 0.86s, 0.87s, 0.87s, 0.87s.  I contend the he also ran at a constant rate the last half of the race. There is no measurable difference in these measurements down the stretch.

Yohan Blake, in the same race, finished 0.89, 0.88, 0.87, 0.88, 0.87, 0.89.  Is it your contention that he sped up- slowed down - sped up - slowed down? To think that is total disregard for the nature and limitation of measurement.

 

I don't need the Al Bundy of track telling me I don't understand data.  I am very comfortable with my understanding of data.

Edited by Galileo
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28 minutes ago, Galileo said:

I am a glutton for punishment… This will be my last post on the subject.  Do with it whatever you like from this point forward.  

1.  You claimed Bolt hits top speed at about the 80 m mark in a race.  I provided data that clearly shows he hits top speed earlier...and he did so in both sets of race data that have been linked.

2. I am not denying the existence of a deceleration phase.  I was trying to make a point that it is not in a sprinter’s interest to decelerate before the finish line.  They are not decelerating by design (sorry you are hung up on the word strategy even though I used it as part of a conditional “if” statement.  I'll spare you the linguistics argument).  It is not something they want to do.  They decelerate because of limitations of endurance. You on I agree on this, but you are too stubborn to see that. If a sprinter can avoid decelerating, they would naturally put up a better race time.  I suspect you would agree on this point, yes?

I did provide you with an example of race data that shows it is not true that ALL sprinters in ALL races decelerate.  Asafa Powell does not decelerate in the sample provided. In the world of measurement, there is always a degree of uncertainty.  A value of 0.84 s is the same as a value of 0.85 s. You ever wonder why they are not timing things to the ten-thousandths place? It is not because tools don’t exist that are capable.  How precisely do you think they can even mark out a 10 m interval over which to time? +/- 100 mm? +/- 10 mm? +/- 1 mm? There are physical limitations to how precise measurements can be.  The last place value in a reported measurement is where the uncertainty lies. If you report 0.84, the true value could actually be 0.83...maybe it is 0.85. There is a range of uncertainty that must be acknowledged.  The ranges of uncertainty for 0.84s and 0.85s overlap. You can not claim any real difference between these measured values. Asafa Powell’s last 6 split intervals were 0.85, 0.85, 0.84, 0.84, 0.85, 0.85. THERE IS NO PHYSICALLY  MEANINGFUL DIFFERENCE in the measurements. Asafa Powell was running at a steady rate over the last half of that race...NO MEASURABLE DECELERATION. In contrast, Bolt’s times from 0.83 to 0.90 s does show a difference outside the range of uncertainty and is thus significant.  This is evidence for Bolt slowing down. See, I am not saying deceleration doesn’t occur. Clearly it does. But it is not an absolute.

At the 2017 World championships in London, Gatlin’s splits from 40-50m interval and on were 0.88s, 0.86s, 0.86s, 0.87s, 0.87s, 0.87s.  I contend the he also ran at a constant rate the last half of the race. There is no measurable difference in these measurements down the stretch.

Yohan Blake, in the same race, finished 0.89, 0.88, 0.87, 0.88, 0.87, 0.89.  Is it your contention that he sped up- slowed down - sped up - slowed down? To think that is total disregard for the nature and limitation of measurement.

 

I don't need the Al Bundy of track telling me I don't understand data.  I am very comfortable with my understanding of data.

Yes it is an absolute is what you aren't getting.

What about this aren't you getting?

Maintaining maximum and sub-maximum velocity

Once the 100m athlete has reached maximum velocity, they will continue at their maximum velocity for 10-30m before their neuromuscular coordination breaks down.  Once this happens the 100m athlete will slowly decelerate and need to maintain as much good sprinting technique as possible to maintain their near maximum velocity to the finish line.  Because by now the athlete will be experiencing coordination erosion and they will slowly decelerate.

********It happens to everyone, it doesn’t matter who you are****************.  American sprinters Tyson Gay and Justin Gatlin decelerate in the 100m, and even the world record holder Usain Bolt slowly decelerated in the last 20m of his 100m world record of 9.58.

When sprinting at sub-maximum velocity near the end of the 100m, the goal is to************ decelerate at a slower rate than your competition*********. Let’s say you are racing the 100m dash and are slowly decelerating in the last 30m by three tenths of a second per 10m, and your competition is slowing down by five hundredths of a second per 10m, the stopwatch will show that you are 0.85 behind at the finish line.  This is because you were slowing down at a faster rate.  Wow, that’s almost a whole second behind.

~~~~~~~~~~

Why do 100m sprinters run all those 300's?  The key to sprinting is once at max velocity you are able to sustain/maintain your optimal jets s long as you can and...........decellerate....at a slower rate than the competition. Key words........speed endurance.

I've read all that Bud Winter who coached six world record holders. Glen Mills the coach of Usain Bolt, Tom Tellez the coach of Carl Lewis, had to say about what a 100n is all about.  Then there was my coach a Stanford grad.

It is just like that above, if you have some need to battle the facts ....don't.

We are done with this.

 

 

 

 

Edited by ZenoRazon
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2 hours ago, ZenoRazon said:

I was born in 1949, I missed the when did I run track, that was the 64-68.

You are about 50 years older than I would have guessed.  Congratulations. 

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4 minutes ago, Nugget said:

You are about 50 years older than I would have guessed.  Congratulations. 

I thought it might be an Eminence alias but I've seen a picture of Em and he couldn't run a 20.3 100 yard dash

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2 minutes ago, Nugget said:

You are about 50 years older than I would have guessed.  Congratulations. 

It does get funny sometimes.

poster....you're an old fart

Zeno....young at heart.

Zeno....J.D.Smith the first 1000 rusher from an HBCU school, a Niner.

same poster.....you Googled that.

Zeno....dude, I;m an old fart remember, I saw J.D. play, ok?

 

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14 hours ago, ZenoRazon said:

 Why do Nigerians look totally different physically from Kenyan?  Why do Samoans look totally different physically from Filipino's?  Where are those 220 pounders white NFL RB's with 4.4 jets?

Are you saying we don't see dramatic differences in physiques out there?

Just one of many....

The study of race and athletic performance is best described as
intriguing but immature. Geneticist Claude Bouchard of Laval
University in Quebec has determined that certain human athletic
traits, such as anaerobic power and training capacity, have a
powerful genetic component, suggesting that, to a significant
extent, athletes are born, not made. One Bouchard study that
compared black West Africans with white French Canadians found a
higher percentage of fast-twitch muscle fibers and anaerobic
enzymes--both thought to be essential to explosive sprinting--in
the West Africans, but Bouchard is the first to point out that
he was not studying athletes. Until he does, he can only
speculate about how the differences he found relate to athletic
performance.

 

Not sure why you're asking me where Christian McCaffrey is. According to the internet he appears to have been at some sort of minicamp or OTA earlier this week, but I'm not sure of his weekend plans.

Anyway, did you read the article?  Because the article explains all of this. Lemme try to simplify it. Say there's a gene, the Fast Gene, that helps make you a faster sprinter.   The fact that many or most people from (or with ancestors from) Country A have it doesn't mean that zero people from Country B have it.  What actually happens is that, because lots of people from Country A have the Fast Gene, the culture of track takes hold there and all the people with the Fast gene are identified and excel and get training and that gives them a large pool of talent as well as the environment and resources to cultivate their talent. But that doesn't mean the people from Country B can't compete; there's just fewer of them that can per capita, because the Fast Gene is not as prevalent even if it does exist. Still, if your country loves track and has a big enough population you can compete at that level. 

As I said, that's why Japan and China- with runners almost entirely of native heritage- both finished in the Top 4 in the 4 x 100 in Rio, within .6 seconds of Jamaica's winning time. China's got a dude that runs a 9.91 100.  If the genetic profile that makes people super fast was totally unique to people with West African heritage-rather than just more common- that would be completely impossible.

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Just now, Chaka said:

Would someone please direct me to the Dutch sprinters of Peruvian ancestry track thread?

I want to talk about white track just not this white.

TIA

I hear even the walking footprints track powder white in Peru, never mind those that run for a living.

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10 hours ago, ZenoRazon said:

No it doesn't not at all,  so you can't talk track, got it.

You want to talk track so badly that you responded to a comment you consider off-topic 26 hours later, after the thread fell off the first page. 

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On 5/4/2019 at 4:31 AM, rockaction said:

Try and keep up, ok? This might be the most annoyingly obtuse thread you'll read all year. Get this #### off the front page.

Why do you worry so damn much about this stuff?

Chill, and relax, just a thread on a messageboard.

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On 5/4/2019 at 7:54 AM, Chaka said:

Would someone please direct me to the Dutch sprinters of Peruvian ancestry track thread?

I want to talk about white track just not this white.

TIA 

There is a great white Dutch sprinter running now.

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On 5/4/2019 at 8:13 AM, ConnSKINS26 said:

You want to talk track so badly that you responded to a comment you consider off-topic 26 hours later, after the thread fell off the first page. 

You know how it works, I just respond to who is waiting for a response.

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That agility with speed and size and elusiveness is rarely seen with those without roots to western Africa.

The amazing Gale Sayers, and his older brother Roger was faster than he was, once beat Bob Hayes.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzo-enTMdzc

 

Found this by accident. 

Darrell Green while at Texas A&I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHrXUcjxWv8

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  • 1 month later...
On 5/12/2019 at 3:44 PM, bigbottom said:

Matthew Boling anchoring the 4x400 Relay in the Texas state high school championship, which featured 4 of the top 7 relay teams in the nation. Worth watching for the incredible finish:

https://youtu.be/g0NPo8ZyF_o

That was an absurd comeback.  Seemed insurmountable.

 

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