Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
“Bad enough to knock him out of an entire game” seems to be an accurate assessment for the time being, no?
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WR Diontae Johnson, CAR (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Never said it was.
Said what I know about back injuries and why it’s a concern.
I can post links to back injury information if you’d like? I know you like links.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
See, this is what I’m saying. You also don’t trust him. That’s not “overreacting” or framing a narrative. It’s a simple fact.
Dionte should be a plug & play, set it and forget it WR.
now you have to look at his injury status & compare his matchups to over players. That would be considered a downgrade from what everyone was saying in the preseason.
it’s not a narrative, nor is it an overreaction. It’s a normal response to what he’s shown through week 5.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
It is 100% accurate to say that back injuries are bad, often linger, and are easy to recur when healed.
That applies to everyone who has a back injury, including Dionte Johnson.
I hope his is something small. But in general, small back injuries usually don’t knock players out of the entire game. This probably applies to DJ as well.
Until more specific information is available, this is as realistic an assessment as any.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
While watching you two go back and forth is entertaining, I’m still not starting Johnson until he finishes a game. For whatever reason, Johnson has been hurt too often for my taste this season. I’m not trading him because he is a WR2 if he plays a full game.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I didn’t make up a concussion, I misread a post. And I immediately corrected it and said my bad for that. Twice.
and again: he missed 2 games & missed part of a 3rd.
these message boards also don’t work if others argue in bad faith about what others have said.
Milkman
Footballguy
I'm not trying to gang up on you here but really? No more fear than any other player?
Also I have to admit I giggled when you said "if he's healthy" because he's literally never been healthy in his career.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Yes. I don’t think the fact he left two games early this season is predictive of what will happen going forward. Why I said “if healthy” was because I have no idea how bad this back injury was. So I’m obviously not going to start him if he’s out or even if he’s a game time decision (which would be the case with most players, provided I had options). But if he’s practicing all week (except for his usual Wednesday rest days), then I will start him. I also said depending on matchups because I don’t start him every week since I have good WR depth, I generally play matchups. I’m not even sure who Pittsburgh plays this week.
If we are going to take that statement at it's literal word I would not put him in something like Tom Brady category who's had to leave one game in his whole career. So there are other players I would fear leaving a game less to be sure.
But I would say I have no more fear of him getting knocked out of a game early anymore then I do the average player and I'm someone that had him in 14 starting lineups week 3 and 12 starting lineups this past week. So I know how brutal the early game exit can be, but I truly see nothing in his profile that leads me to believe he's more prone then the normal player instead of just having had a bad two games of luck.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
So if he's limited all week or DNP due to a back injury, that wouldn't be in is profile that would cause more concern than any other player?
I would apply the same what if game to the average NFL player and my answer would be the same for all of them.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
100 yd games
Diontae Johnson - 0
Chase Claypool - 1
Yet you guys act like he’s a top 30 WR. He’s a WR who is unathletic and makes his bones at the LOS with poor YAC skills. He should have been a pass in the 7th, 8th round this offseason and he’s hardly a hold or buy right now.
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Milkman
Footballguy
Teef
Footballguy
For me, I was excited about the idea of what Dionte could do this season with the full attention of Big Ben. The first few weeks DJ was peppered with plenty of targets, but didn’t do much to capitalize. However, I felt his value was still there based on his high volume and market share, but what he did with them was pretty underwhelming. Injuries aside.
Now Enter Chase Claypool. Even as far back as week 1 Chase has stood up and shown how talented he is on a per target basis, not only this last weekend, but since week 1. He’s been making incredible plays all year, just on very few targets.
Unfortunately, I own a ton on Dionte Johnson and only a few shares of Claypool here and there.
So what do we do now?
I say this is no time to be stubborn. Instead, let’s go HARD after Chase Claypool if he’s still on the waiver wire. He is a legit special talent and there is no point in being left behind holding onto what we thought Dionte Johnson could have been in the preseason.
I see Juju and Dionte being secondary pieces to Claypool from here on out. This new emergence doesn’t help Dionte. It only takes away more of what made him valuable, his target share. Target share he did very little with. I still think DJ is capable of big games in the offense, but it’ll be Claypool’s show from here on out. Everyone else is just a compliment.
Stay objective and choose wisely.
Good Luck!
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I apologize to everyone for my role and I deleted most of my garbage posts to make it easier to read.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Ok - from that perspective I get where you were going. I don’t agree with all your points but if your main point was Claypool is a better overall talent and will be a better fantasy asset than Johnson, I wouldn’t necessarily disagree with that. The only pick I had in one league, the 2.11, became Claypool so I’m a fan of his also.
ETA: the difference I see between Johnson and Landry (who I never liked) is that Landry was a pure volume compiler. Gase offenses feed the slot guy - just see what Crowder is doing now. Johnson's volume comes not from being force fed but rather from almost always being open. He's a great route runner and gets separation. I also disagree about Johnson having poor YAC skills. That's very surprising from my observations. I'm sure you'll have some analytical study that shows that's the case but I've seen some weird stances by PFF and the like (just my opinion).
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barackdhouse
Footballguy
Ok so count me in the camp that says it will be hard to know who to start from one week to the next for ROS. Assuming DJ is healthy enough to play. For argument sake let's just say he plays. I think we will largely see a whack a mole situation where 2/3 of the WRs are fantasy worthy in a given week. Ultimately in most redraft leagues you're probably starting any of these 3 almost every time, which is why I don't tend to worry too much about the concussion or the back as I think those are fluky. I'm much more concerned about the toe, but that doesn't seem to be stopping him so moving forward if he is playing he is easily in my lineup. Unless I get Michael Thomas back as a 4th WR and I bump DJ to 5. McLaurin might get bumped instead. And if Juju really is going to get shipped out next year then I have to think DJ is central to their offense moving forward, as is Claypool.
Anyway I'm still optimistic. But there is a watering down effect here for all three WRs if they are all healthy in a game. What would Claypool have done yesterday if DJ had played the whole time?
Anyway I'm still optimistic. But there is a watering down effect here for all three WRs if they are all healthy in a game. What would Claypool have done yesterday if DJ had played the whole time?
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
That's fine - we all have different levels of how we deal with perceived risk. My main point is that Johnson leaving two games isn't predictive of what will happen going forward.DocHolliday said:
As I said I started Johnson for the first time in my one dynasty league so of course getting one point from him was disappointing and may cost me this week unless Diggs comes through but I've seen enough from him that he will be in my lineup most weeks if healthy with zero concern that he'll leave a game again just because he did twice.
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
dcgangstas
Footballguy
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
ROS seems like its gonna be week to week trying to figure out if it's a Claypool, Johnson or Smith-Schuster week. Likely plenty of targets to support two but not too many weeks will all three be in double digits (PPR.) None of them really have the makings of a WR1 in FF this year.
If I had to guess I'd say we're looking at WR20-25, WR25-30 and WR30-35
If I had to guess I'd say we're looking at WR20-25, WR25-30 and WR30-35
- JSS
- Claypool
- DJ
foxco
Footballguy
This could certainly be the case, but could Claypool be forcing himself into the mix more with his play? DJ's never had anything like what Claypool did last week. Rooting for DJ but have no idea how this is going to play out...
DocHolliday
Footballguy
I agree with your thought process. Looks like all three should be considered to be WR3 moving forward with any one of them capable of putting up WR1 numbers on occasion. Don’t think predicting the big weeks is possible unless Johnson continues to be injured.BobbyLayne said:
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
But things sure have changed now that Claypool has gotten more looks. I'm sure the Steelers will want him much more involved in the passing game.
Also keep in mind that Ben locks on to receivers. He force fed AB and Juju before, so if he now is in love with Claypool...
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
WR3 and the infinite melancholy of sadness
It's been a minute since Juju has had a WR1 kind of game
Johnson had his first two 10+ target games to start the year but still looking for his first 100 yard game
Claypool has been making plays all year, nobody called the eruption versus the Eagles but there's a lot to like there
Pretty much how I see it as well.
I'd add I have extreme confidence putting Diontae in my lineups when he's healthy for both upside and high floor.
I have a decent amount of confidence putting in JuJu though it's more for his solid floor, not the upside.
Claypool I don't yet trust in my lineup. Saying that I only own him a few places and he's in those lineups due to bye weeks and injuries but my trust is not there with respect to him being a weekly lineup type lock yet. Total faith in the talent, but I believe he remains third in the hierarchy for now.
Milkman
Footballguy
He's glass so you will. Wind blows hard enough and his back hurts.Love it. I come to the DJ thread for uplifting projections about him becoming the WR1 in Pittsburgh.
Just hoping I'm not still popping in here week 14 for the same reasons.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
interesting thought processes going on here
Johnson will be limited in practice this week per Tomlin - great matchup but in my view he's the one you cannot trust at this point
I don't see how anyone could think Diontae is the guy
but I guess that's why it's such an interesting hobby
Johnson will be limited in practice this week per Tomlin - great matchup but in my view he's the one you cannot trust at this point
I don't see how anyone could think Diontae is the guy
but I guess that's why it's such an interesting hobby
Milkman
Footballguy
Yeah I'm like the exact opposite at least until he became injury prone. When I watch him I'm like "He looks just like AB when he plays".
Boone22
Footballguy
Honest question. Why is everyone so ready to anoint this guy as the Steelers #1WR? He’s played in 18 games and has yet to have a 100 yard game. While JuJu has already shown what he can do and the rookie put up a 100 yard game in his 4 game (with very limited opportunity in his first 3 games). What makes Johnson so much better than the other two? I’m just not seeing it.
LawFitz
Footballguy
Simply the stages of grief for those who thought they stole the Pitt/Ben WR1 in round five; and also from those who thought they stole from those who thought they drafted the Pitt/Ben WR1 in round five by drafting the actual Pitt/Ben WR1 in round 12. All the while, the real thieves were the Steelers themselves who drafted the true Ben WR1 in round 2 of the NFL draft.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Damn, that's meta.Simply the stages of grief for those who thought they stole the Pitt/Ben WR1 in round five; and also from those who thought they stole from those who thought they drafted the Pitt/Ben WR1 in round five by drafting the actual Pitt/Ben WR1 in round 12. All the while, the real thieves were the Steelers themselves who drafted the true Ben WR1 in round 2 of the NFL draft.
Buck Bradcanon
Footballguy
DJ is a table pounding buy low if this thread is any indication.
Steeler
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Not really because owners still believe.
In my experience, it takes 3 things for a buy-low:
1. commodity diminishing in perceived, but not actual value
2. Prospective buyers remaining convinced the currently perceived value is lower than actual value
3. True believers losing faith in actual value, believing in perceived value.
it’s that 3rd one that likely hasn’t yet happened. Maybe if he’s limited all week and either misses week 6, or worse plays week 6 & has yet another early exit, those true believers will start to lose faith.
Of course then prospective buyers will also start to wonder if perception = reality, in which case they’re not buying low, they’re simply “buying”.
This logic applies to redraft. It’s way premature to expect dynasty owners to lose faith this quickly, but it never hurts to ask.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Lather, rinse, repeat about every 3-4 weeks (or when they play a secondary as inept as the Cowboys secondary has looked)
