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You’ve Been Marooned By Kidnappers. Can You Escape At Dawn?


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17 hours ago, Juxtatarot said:

You’re super rich,

...

“If your people pay our ransom,” he continues, “We’ll come get you. Otherwise, there won’t be any more paper bags. Remember, wait until daylight to make that call.”

...

Your knowledge of astronomy is too weak to try to estimate your location by the stars, but you’re not stupid. Before daybreak, you’ve worked out exactly how you’ll use that minute of time on the satellite phone so that your people, who are also not stupid, will be able to dispatch rescue.

What will you say?

Credit: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/youve-been-marooned-by-kidnappers-can-you-escape-at-dawn/

OK after reading again, I have decided what I would say.

 

15 hours ago, Corporation said:

I'd say pay the ransom :)

I agree. I'd pay the ransom.

 

13 hours ago, Ignoramus said:

Obviously I can escape by dawn. I mean, I'm super rich so I also have to be really smart. So yeah, I'd easily escape.

Agreed. I can easily escape if the kidnappers are trust worthy.

 

12 hours ago, hagmania said:

Because the question is posed as a riddle, the answer seems to be, "Yes, I can." Now, will I? That remains to be seen.

Agreed. I can. Now, will I choose to pay? I will.

 

7 hours ago, EYLive said:

I have a kidnap and random insurance policy. Where is the ransom to be delivered to? I'll call my people to file the claim and process payment.

I don't know if this can be included, but I like it.

 

Here is my reasoning.

  • After seeing how complicated this is, I do not believe that I could devise a 100% solution.
  • Thus, I need to weigh my guess of my escape odds vs. my trust in the kidnappers word.
  • These kidnappers seem pretty dang organized. And, that means they are prolly good at what they do. Good kidnappers need to be trustworthy in order to succeed - or else they would not keep getting ransoms paid.
  • In the end, I trust the kidnappers more than the smarts of me and my friends.
  • Since I am rich, no biggie.
  • I may lose this way, but I have more confidence in it than my best escape plan.

 

Call to friends after daybreak:

Pay the ransom.

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49 minutes ago, moleculo said:

Sunset data probably isn't necessary - just follow along that curve until you find an island matching the description.

Its a one-half square mile stretch of sand - I think you will want to narrow it down by longitude on even the best satellite maps. 

 

Because, as you said the lat/long will still be estimates

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3 minutes ago, Man of Constant Sorrow said:

Call to friends after daybreak:

Pay the ransom.

Its not a terrible solution - but it asks, in the title, if you can escape at dawn, and then states in the end you have worked out how your people will be able to dispatch "rescue" - I don't think paying the ransom fits that description - but I would not quibble much with it either.

 

Of course, once you pay the ransom, the kidnappers know you are good for the money, and will probably do this again...

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1 minute ago, Sinn Fein said:

Its not a terrible solution - but it asks, in the title, if you can escape at dawn, and then states in the end you have worked out how your people will be able to dispatch "rescue" - I don't think paying the ransom fits that description - but I would not quibble much with it either.

 

Of course, once you pay the ransom, the kidnappers know you are good for the money, and will probably do this again...

Good points.

I am not too worried about the wording of the riddle. I can justify in my mind the way I interpret "rescue". I do accept your interpretation as well. So, we are agreed that the main quibble lies elsewhere.

 

The main concern is: will I open myself up to a cycle of kidnappings?

I don't know. I need to think more. I see risk on both sides.

But, that reminds me of another part of the riddle that has me scratching my head still.

Quote

You’re super rich, and you often joke with your cadre of intelligent friends and family about getting kidnapped. You all agree that if you were ever kidnapped, the evildoers would knock you out so stealthily that you’d never feel the blow. Then, one snowy night, you step out of a restaurant and, just as predicted, never feel the blow.

The bold almost implies that this is an inside job that the abductee is in on. 

I have not yet found a way to make it significant, but your comment on future risk after paying jolts this.

Is there a potential profit to be made by staging your own kidnapping like this and then paying?

If so, I have not found it yet - other than:

18 minutes ago, Man of Constant Sorrow said:
7 hours ago, EYLive said:

I have a kidnap and random insurance policy. Where is the ransom to be delivered to? I'll call my people to file the claim and process payment.

Can this be squeezed in some way?

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4 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

Wouldnt a satellite phone give you your coordinates? Cant you just read them off to people? 

You could write them down on the paper bag using liverwurst. 

When I checked on sat phones, I came away thinking that only some sat phones do this. Since the riddle does not specify, I again trusted that the kidnappers were good - and thus made sure to use the type of sat phone that is hardest to track and place as possible.

It seems our military's ability to track these types consistently is still in question. I don't trust my friends to do this when my life is at stake.

I am still open to persuasion though.

Edited by Man of Constant Sorrow
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51 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

Its a one-half square mile stretch of sand - I think you will want to narrow it down by longitude on even the best satellite maps. 

 

Because, as you said the lat/long will still be estimates

Ok.

One other point to get us down to one call: phones have clocks.  I haven't seen a phone without a clock since landlines were a thing.  So - just before daybreak you power up the phone.  Record the time when the sun cracks the surface, and shut down the phone.  Repeat for sunset.

Now, when you make the call, you give them the phones current time reading, and when sunrise/sunset occurred. 

Done.

ETA: record the times by scrawling in the sand.  Just make sure to do it above high-tide.

Edited by moleculo
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3 minutes ago, moleculo said:

Ok.

One other point to get us down to one call: phones have clocks.  I haven't seen a phone without a clock since landlines were a thing.  So - just before daybreak you power up the phone.  Record the time when the sun cracks the surface, and shut down the phone.  Repeat for sunset.

Now, when you make the call, you give them the phones current time reading, and when sunrise/sunset occurred. 

Done.

Good.

How confident are you in terms of percentage of success?

I can't figure it.

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9 minutes ago, Man of Constant Sorrow said:

Good.

How confident are you in terms of percentage of success?

I can't figure it.

It would work, I'm quite certain - to an area of 25x25 square miles (accounting for error in clock and reading the time). 

Given that we can't see land from the beach (or presumably other islands), that's not an impossible quadrant for a helicopter to search.

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4 minutes ago, moleculo said:

It would work, I'm quite certain - to an area of 25x25 square miles (accounting for error in clock and reading the time). 

Given that we can't see land from the beach (or presumably other islands), that's not an impossible quadrant for a helicopter to search.

OK. I'm ready to think some more on my decision.

Do you still think that your success chance is less that 100%?

I'm mean everything is less than 100%, but would you trust your life to it if your other option were paying cash and trusting the kidnappers?

I'm at the point, that if you were in my circle of friends, I would use your answer to form my own.

Edited by Man of Constant Sorrow
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You know this sounds kind of heavenly.. 

I am a rich. I am alone and I have silence. Sitting on beach with some sandwiches and drink. No annoying smartphones or other technology to distract me. My suggested solution is just to sit there and enjoy this moment. 

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6 minutes ago, Man of Constant Sorrow said:

OK. I'm ready to think some more on my decision.

Do you still think that your success chance is less that 100%?

I'm mean everything is less than 100%, but would you trust your life to it if your other option were paying cash and trusting the kidnappers?

I'm at the point, that if you were in my circle of friends, I would use your answer to form my own.

Here's what could go wrong:

* Phone battery dies.  Cycling the phone on and off a couple of times gives less than a minute of talk time.  Maybe a better answer is SMS - takes less power,  but that robs your ability to sync clocks. Of course, that may not be important as phones typically sync their clocks with the network when they are powered up.

* Wind/rain wipes out times scrawled in sand.

* Clouds prevent you from knowing the exact moment of sunrise/sunset.

* You won't be able to escape at dawn (rhymes with Don)... You will be stuck on the island for at least a full day.

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3 minutes ago, Courtjester said:

You know this sounds kind of heavenly.. 

I am a rich. I am alone and I have silence. Sitting on beach with some sandwiches and drink. No annoying smartphones or other technology to distract me. My suggested solution is just to sit there and enjoy this moment. 

Nothing sounds worse than liverwurst and peanut butter on rye.

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1 minute ago, moleculo said:

Here's what could go wrong:

* Phone battery dies.  Cycling the phone on and off a couple of times gives less than a minute of talk time.  Maybe a better answer is SMS - takes less power,  but that robs your ability to sync clocks. Of course, that may not be important as phones typically sync their clocks with the network when they are powered up.

* Wind/rain wipes out times scrawled in sand.

* Clouds prevent you from knowing the exact moment of sunrise/sunset.

* You won't be able to escape at dawn (rhymes with Don)... You will be stuck on the island for at least a full day.

Thanks.

That's solid.

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Way too much detail about how the friend group all agreed how a kidnapping would of course go down and then it playing out exactly that way.

Probably a red herring, obscuring the useful information.

OR.

It's a trick question. You're planning a divorce soon. You arranged your own kidnapping to pay your buddies the "ransom" to hold for you, a very handsome sum of millions. 

Literally...start hiding money. Elevating the game as a true FBG would. 

You have to wait until dawn to even attempt to make the call because your buddies need time to quietly arrange transport back home and get their stories and alibis straight. The theatrical act on the island is just to remind you of the rules to not get caught. 

They gave you the worst sounding sandwich you've ever heard of, probably a local favorite, in order to further cement that the kidnappers must not know you and certainly aren't American. An American would never even THINK of the existence of that sandwich. 

Lastly you all planned this to happen in the winter time while it's snowing in order to lower the chances of being caught--constant flurries make the stop light and other security cameras less likely to pick up on licence plates of vehicles involved in the initial "kidnapping" and then subsequent return of your buddies to their homes. Of course, you're rich, so you aren't using the main vehicles anyways, but every bit of confusion helps. Family and friends are more likely to bunker down at home where it's warm and safe rather than driving in the snow or going out in the cold, further lowering the chances that anyone stumbles where they shouldn't and ruins a perfectly good alibi for everyone involved. 

The story makes it a point to mention how everyone involved is smart, including the "kidnapped" FBG. Maybe too smart for their own good, but you're trying to pull off the heist of a lifetime--hiding money before a divorce is an FBG classic. 

You succeed. You rejoice in the return to your family. You give it a respectable amount of time...but you never quite fully come back from this episode. One day you have an epiphany--this kidnapping made you realize what's important in life, and that you weren't happy. You said you would never get married, but you did. You saved every cent, matched every retirement contribution, worked every hour you should have every day of your life, never really enjoying your hard earned money, waiting for that elusive retirement. Hell, you even stuck with a flip phone all this time, saving to the extreme. Your life flashed before your eyes on that island, and you want a fresh start. Alone. This is the sob story you tell your wife, lawyers, dental hygienists at your work, and therapist, at least. 

Flash forward. You've divorced and split everything except the huge ransom payment, returned to you by your smart and loyal partners in crime, your fellow FBG's. We pan over to the computer screen you're browsing a year later, in your sweet rich guy bachelor pad....nomarriage.com. 

Edited by ConnSKINS26
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4 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

Way too much detail about how the friend group all agreed how a kidnapping would of course go down and then it playing out exactly that way.

Probably a red herring, obscuring the useful information.

OR.

It's a trick question. You're planning a divorce soon. You arranged your own kidnapping to pay your buddies the "ransom" to hold for you, a very handsome sum of millions. 

Literally...start hiding money. Elevating the game as a true FBG would. 

You have to wait until dawn to even attempt to make the call because your buddies need time to quietly arrange transport back home and get their stories and alibis straight. The theatrical act on the island is just to remind you of the rules to not get caught. 

They gave you the worst sounding sandwich I've ever heard of, probably a local favorite, in order to further cement that the kidnappers must not know you and certainly aren't American. An American would never even THINK of the existence of that sandwich. 

Lastly you all planned this to happen in the winter time while it's snowing in order to lower the chances of being caught--constant flurries make the stop light and other security cameras less likely to pick up on licence plates of vehicles involved in the initial "kidnapping" and then subsequent return of your buddies to their homes. Of course, you're rich, so you aren't using the main vehicles anyways, but every bit of confusion helps. Family and friends are more likely to bunker down at home where it's warm and safe rather than driving in the snow or going out in the cold, further lowering the chances that anyone stumbles where they shouldn't and ruins a perfectly good alibi for everyone involved. 

The story makes it a point to mention how everyone involved is smart, including the "kidnapped" FBG. Maybe too smart for their own good, but you're trying to pull off the heist of a lifetime--hiding money before a divorce is an FBG classic. 

You succeed. You rejoice in the return to your family. You give it a respectable amount of time...but you never quite fully come back from this episode. One day you have an epiphany--this kidnapping made you realize what's important in life, and that you weren't happy. Your life flashed before your eyes on that island, and you want a fresh start. Alone. 

Flash forward. You've divorced and split everything except the huge ransom payment, returned to you by your smart and loyal partners in crime, your fellow FBG's. We pan to the computer screen you're browsing a year later, in your sweet rich guy bachelor pad....nomarriage.com. 

There we go!

My odds keeping swaying.

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29 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

Way too much detail about how the friend group all agreed how a kidnapping would of course go down and then it playing out exactly that way.

Probably a red herring, obscuring the useful information.

OR.

It's a trick question. You're planning a divorce soon. You arranged your own kidnapping to pay your buddies the "ransom" to hold for you, a very handsome sum of millions. 

Literally...start hiding money. Elevating the game as a true FBG would. 

You have to wait until dawn to even attempt to make the call because your buddies need time to quietly arrange transport back home and get their stories and alibis straight. The theatrical act on the island is just to remind you of the rules to not get caught. 

They gave you the worst sounding sandwich you've ever heard of, probably a local favorite, in order to further cement that the kidnappers must not know you and certainly aren't American. An American would never even THINK of the existence of that sandwich. 

Lastly you all planned this to happen in the winter time while it's snowing in order to lower the chances of being caught--constant flurries make the stop light and other security cameras less likely to pick up on licence plates of vehicles involved in the initial "kidnapping" and then subsequent return of your buddies to their homes. Of course, you're rich, so you aren't using the main vehicles anyways, but every bit of confusion helps. Family and friends are more likely to bunker down at home where it's warm and safe rather than driving in the snow or going out in the cold, further lowering the chances that anyone stumbles where they shouldn't and ruins a perfectly good alibi for everyone involved. 

The story makes it a point to mention how everyone involved is smart, including the "kidnapped" FBG. Maybe too smart for their own good, but you're trying to pull off the heist of a lifetime--hiding money before a divorce is an FBG classic. 

You succeed. You rejoice in the return to your family. You give it a respectable amount of time...but you never quite fully come back from this episode. One day you have an epiphany--this kidnapping made you realize what's important in life, and that you weren't happy. You said you would never get married, but you did. You saved every cent, matched every retirement contribution, worked every hour you should have every day of your life, never really enjoying your hard earned money, waiting for that elusive retirement. Hell, you even stuck with a flip phone all this time, saving to the extreme. Your life flashed before your eyes on that island, and you want a fresh start. Alone. This is the sob story you tell your wife, lawyers, dental hygienists at your work, and therapist, at least. 

Flash forward. You've divorced and split everything except the huge ransom payment, returned to you by your smart and loyal partners in crime, your fellow FBG's. We pan over to the computer screen you're browsing a year later, in your sweet rich guy bachelor pad....nomarriage.com. 

That was a lot of effort.

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2 hours ago, Galileo said:

That was a lot of effort.

I read it. Whether that makes it worth it or not is up to the poster.

Also, love this riddle. Very interesting stuff about sunrise, sunset, and satellite phones with respect to latitude and longitude. 

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11 minutes ago, rockaction said:

I read it. Whether that makes it worth it or not is up to the poster.

Also, love this riddle. Very interesting stuff about sunrise, sunset, and satellite phones with respect to latitude and longitude. 

But all these practical solutions are likely irrelevant.  As parasaurolophus alludes to, these riddles always have some sort of "outside the box" type solution.

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10 minutes ago, Galileo said:

As parasaurolophus alludes to, these riddles always have some sort of "outside the box" type solution.

Yeah, MoCS was beginning to go there. 

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20 hours ago, Ignoramus said:

Obviously I can escape by dawn. I mean, I'm super rich so I also have to be really smart. So yeah, I'd easily escape.

If you are really smart, you wouldn't have allowed yourself to be kidnapped in the first place.

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23 hours ago, Man of Constant Sorrow said:
23 hours ago, Sinn Fein said:

Its not a terrible solution - but it asks, in the title, if you can escape at dawn, and then states in the end you have worked out how your people will be able to dispatch "rescue" - I don't think paying the ransom fits that description - but I would not quibble much with it either.

 

Of course, once you pay the ransom, the kidnappers know you are good for the money, and will probably do this again...

Good points.

I am not too worried about the wording of the riddle. I can justify in my mind the way I interpret "rescue". I do accept your interpretation as well. So, we are agreed that the main quibble lies elsewhere.

 

The main concern is: will I open myself up to a cycle of kidnappings?

I don't know. I need to think more. I see risk on both sides.

OK, your points were valid and very helpful.

I did some reading on actual kidnappings this morning, and I was not able to find any instances of repeat kidnappings of an individual after a ransom was paid. The closest I came, were stories that were related to terrorism and politically inspired kidnappings. In these cases, I see the negative potential of paying the ransom.

  1. Terrorists are more likely to repeat these tactics if they work.
  2. Governments that pay are more likely to be victimized in this way.

I have not found anything exactly like this in regards to non-political abductions - which this riddle appears to be but I have found some things that are similar. (I did not do a deep dig).

Also, family related abductions do not follow the standard "kidnap for $" patterns. Thus, I am not using data on those here - since the riddle implies that this is not a family custody type of abduction.

 

OK here is what I did find that is similar to the points above- from Inside the ransom business – why kidnapping rarely pays

Quote

So, the best response to a ransom demand is never to agree immediately to a kidnapper’s demands. If the kidnappers have time, they will keep doubling the price and judge the response to this accordingly. If the kidnappers agree to the first ransom offer they are given, they are probably negotiating from the back of a car and are desperate to return the hostage already. If the victim’s representatives prevaricate, the case will most likely end with the victim withdrawing whatever cash they can from an ATM once before and once just after midnight: the so called “express kidnap” or “millionaire’s ride”.

By contrast, a swiftly agreed, overgenerous ransom puts a bulls-eye target on your wider family, your firm’s other employees (if you’re travelling with work), and fellow nationals. News of easy profits spread quickly in criminal communities and can cause local or regional kidnapping booms.

Thus, (at this point) I would make a brief call to "my people" after daybreak and explain my situation quickly. I would state that I don't think I can afford the ransom, but I would prefer to buy my way out regardless - through negotiation. I would ask my contact to get all available funds ready - BUT, I would NOT mention a specific amount, and I would say something like, "Yeah - I know funds are limited - I don't even want to know the actual amount. Don't tell me. Just have funds ready."

My true purpose for negotiation would not be to save money (I am super rich), rather it would be to persuade the kidnappers that "milking this thing further" would not be to their ultimate benefit. Of course, I do not know if the kidnappers are listening in on my phone call or observing me remotely - it is possible though. The important thing to establish, is that I am not too quick or eager to agree to the terms - whatever they are.

In this riddle, there is no info about how "my people" will actually contact the kidnappers. 

Quote

“That’s a satellite phone,” the figure growls. “It’s got one minute of battery left in it. Use that to call your people to let ’em know you’re not dead — but not until daylight.” He tosses a paper bag next to the sat phone. “That’s some sandwiches and water, enough for a few days. That’s salt,” he explains, waving toward the surf. “If your people pay our ransom,” he continues, “We’ll come get you. Otherwise, there won’t be any more paper bags. Remember, wait until daylight to make that call.”

So, the "negotiation" that I desire is not readily apparent. Therefore, the only way I can think of to make the kidnappers believe that I am not an easy mark - is to delay. I will take my time.

After the 1st brief call, I will hold out - and enjoy the lovely sandwiches, water and beach.

Quote

The case of Somali piracy is an excellent example. Somalis had hijacked a few ships a year for decades, releasing hostages after a few months for low six-figure sums. Yet when nervous negotiators tried to accelerate this process by offering million-dollar ransoms, Somali piracy escalated and became a threat to global trade. It is therefore in the financial interest of those being issued ransom demands, as well as their moral responsibility, to try to limit the payments.

The quote above is what I would think about between the 1st and 2nd calls to my contact. I want to be a morally responsible citizen, but I also want to live. After that contemplation, I would decide to do my best to live - but also to live morally.

 

Once out of supplies, I would have maybe a week (3-4 days is actually more typical) before succumbing to thirst and dehydration. I could go longer without food (about 3 weeks), but with no water, that does not matter.

Therefore, I have made my 1st call and am now thinking about my next move. I have 3-4 days marked as my deadline.

 

I think I am going to submit an answer to the website. I will be posting it later. I have until:

Quote

submitted by 11:59 p.m. Eastern time June 9, 2019

All criticism is welcome. You are all "my people".

😎

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On 6/8/2019 at 10:32 AM, moleculo said:

Ok.

One other point to get us down to one call: phones have clocks.  I haven't seen a phone without a clock since landlines were a thing.  So - just before daybreak you power up the phone.  Record the time when the sun cracks the surface, and shut down the phone.  Repeat for sunset.

Now, when you make the call, you give them the phones current time reading, and when sunrise/sunset occurred. 

Done.

ETA: record the times by scrawling in the sand.  Just make sure to do it above high-tide.

 

On 6/8/2019 at 10:36 AM, Man of Constant Sorrow said:

Good.

How confident are you in terms of percentage of success?

I can't figure it.

 

On 6/8/2019 at 10:54 AM, moleculo said:

It would work, I'm quite certain - to an area of 25x25 square miles (accounting for error in clock and reading the time). 

Given that we can't see land from the beach (or presumably other islands), that's not an impossible quadrant for a helicopter to search.

 

On 6/8/2019 at 10:58 AM, Man of Constant Sorrow said:

OK. I'm ready to think some more on my decision.

Do you still think that your success chance is less that 100%?

I'm mean everything is less than 100%, but would you trust your life to it if your other option were paying cash and trusting the kidnappers?

I'm at the point, that if you were in my circle of friends, I would use your answer to form my own.

 

On 6/8/2019 at 11:11 AM, moleculo said:

Here's what could go wrong:

* Phone battery dies.  Cycling the phone on and off a couple of times gives less than a minute of talk time.  Maybe a better answer is SMS - takes less power,  but that robs your ability to sync clocks. Of course, that may not be important as phones typically sync their clocks with the network when they are powered up.

* Wind/rain wipes out times scrawled in sand.

* Clouds prevent you from knowing the exact moment of sunrise/sunset.

* You won't be able to escape at dawn (rhymes with Don)... You will be stuck on the island for at least a full day.

OK. While I am playing my delay game, I will do my best to follow @moleculo 's procedure as discussed in the quotes above.

31 minutes ago, Man of Constant Sorrow said:

Thus, (at this point) I would make a brief call to "my people" after daybreak and explain my situation quickly.

I would time this 1st call per Mol's plan.

32 minutes ago, Man of Constant Sorrow said:

After the 1st brief call, I will hold out - and enjoy the lovely sandwiches, water and beach.

I would modify this part of my plan to this:

2) Make 2nd call per Mol's plan

 

Now, after doing this, I have set in motion @moleculo' s - I believe - please correct me if I am wrong.

 

At this point, I have made 2 calls - to set 2 potential plans into action. It is now time for me to sleep and think about the next move.

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In a certain sense, I have completed the requests of the riddle.

From riddle itself:

Quote

Before daybreak, you’ve worked out exactly how you’ll use that minute of time on the satellite phone so that your people, who are also not stupid, will be able to dispatch rescue.

What will you say?

I have already answered what I would say, even if I have not chosen which actual plan I will eventually use. I have my plan to pay the ransom and @moleculo's plan for escape both initiated with this call.

 

From the riddle title:

Quote

Can You Escape At Dawn?

This is the tougher question to answer. However, since I have decided to play the long game, the answer - for me - is NO. I cannot escape at dawn because dawn is the point when I 1st begin my plan by calling my people. It will take time for the actual Escape to occur. Thus, I can't Escape at Dawn.

In order for me to escape at dawn, I will either need to find a way to do it all by myself - or - break the kidnappers rule of not making any calls before dawn. If I break this rule, then I lower my chances of living in the long run.

By my math, breaking the kidnappers dawn call rule is not worth it.

So - I have my answer to this - No.

 

This does not mean that a possible escape by dawn is not potentially doable - but - I have already spent that amount of time trying to figure a way off - and have not found an answer. Thus, in the real life scenario, I most likely would not have found an answer either.

Again - this supports my answer of No.

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On 6/7/2019 at 8:01 PM, Sinn Fein said:

1st call - at daybreak - to your super smart friend:

"Hello, this is sinn fein, I've been kidnapped and am on an island - its now sunrise.  I'll call again at noon and sunset."

 

2nd call at noon:  "Its now noon."

 

3rd call at sunset:  "its now sunset."

 

Noon call may be superfluous - but sunrise gives you latitude, length of day should give you longitude. 

 

ETA - it presumably gives you two longitudes, on either side of the equator, but now you should be able to get search and rescue to both locations.

This combined with the approximate amount of time that the sky remained moonless prior to sunrise should pinpoint the location. 

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On 6/7/2019 at 4:21 PM, Juxtatarot said:

I think I have most of the answer, if not the whole thing.

Do you plan on submitting your answer?

I'm not asking for you to share it now, but if you do submit, I am really curious to read it.

Thanks for posting the puzzle too. It is great.

😎

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Wait until dawn implies that the satellite we would be hitting is geosynchronous.  Assuming we know what satellite we connect to, would that not give us longitude?  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_satellites_in_geosynchronous_orbit , also the fact it is a moonless night means we would be able to see the moon during the day and use that in relation to the sun.

Step 2: maths.  

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43 minutes ago, Man of Constant Sorrow said:

Do you plan on submitting your answer?

I'm not asking for you to share it now, but if you do submit, I am really curious to read it.

Thanks for posting the puzzle too. It is great.

😎

Actually I don’t think I have the answer. I initially just wanted my people to search along the “dawn line” for an island of its characteristics surrounded by salt water perhaps narrowing it down by a temperature estimate.

However, I’m guessing there is a way to estimate latitude that I don’t think we have thought of yet.  Maybe it involves making a device out of the materials provided.

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1 minute ago, Juxtatarot said:

Actually I don’t think I have the answer. I initially just wanted my people to search along the “dawn line” for an island of its characteristics surrounded by salt water perhaps narrowing it down by a temperature estimate.

However, I’m guessing there is a way to estimate latitude that I don’t think we have thought of yet.  Maybe it involves making a device out of the materials provided.

Thanks.

The latitude device idea is good. I have food to spare in my plan. The only thing that I need to consume, is the bottled water and the sat phone battery. I could choose to not eat anything - as the fresh water is my limiting resource.

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4 hours ago, Man of Constant Sorrow said:

From the riddle title:

Quote

Can You Escape At Dawn?

I just had a thought about the riddle title - the more difficult question of the two that were asked. 

It does not ask, "Is it possible to Escape at Dawn?" 

Rather, "Can You Escape At Dawn?"

Therefore, an absolute or objective answer is not required. An honest answer IS required. 

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29 minutes ago, Walking Boot said:

I'm pretty sure that if you line up two or three of the water bottles in a straight line aligned with the sun, so that if the shadow of the first falls exactly on the second, and then mark the shadow of the second one... After two or three days seeing how much the sunrise deviates north or south would at least give you some info. 

Bump

Nice. 👍

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6 hours ago, formerfourdigit said:

Wait until dawn implies that the satellite we would be hitting is geosynchronous.  Assuming we know what satellite we connect to, would that not give us longitude?  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_satellites_in_geosynchronous_orbit , also the fact it is a moonless night means we would be able to see the moon during the day and use that in relation to the sun.

Step 2: maths.  

:confused:

A satellite in geosynchronous orbit remains over a fixed location of the earth.  Why would there be a need to wait for dawn?  You could access the geosynchronous satellite at any time of day (assuming it accessible at all).

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6 hours ago, Juxtatarot said:

Actually I don’t think I have the answer. I initially just wanted my people to search along the “dawn line” for an island of its characteristics surrounded by salt water perhaps narrowing it down by a temperature estimate.

However, I’m guessing there is a way to estimate latitude that I don’t think we have thought of yet.  Maybe it involves making a device out of the materials provided.

I had the terms backwards - but I think you can get latitude by length of day.  I think it should give you two potential latitudes equidistant from the equator.  Sunrise should give you longitude. 

 

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10 hours ago, Man of Constant Sorrow said:

I think I am going to submit an answer to the website. I will be posting it later. I have until:

Quote

submitted by 11:59 p.m. Eastern time June 9, 2019

All criticism is welcome. You are all "my people".

OK - heads up. The dead-line is nearing and I don't feel like typing up all of this in one coherent reply right now. I'm relaxing and having fun.

I don't really care about the formal site, so - I just wanted to say I will eventually type it up for here.

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3 hours ago, Walking Boot said:

I'm pretty sure that if you line up two or three of the water bottles in a straight line aligned with the sun, so that if the shadow of the first falls exactly on the second, and then mark the shadow of the second one... After two or three days seeing how much the sunrise deviates north or south would at least give you some info. 

Pfffft. I have it on good authority one water bottle can focus a beam to completely engulf a car in flames. Give me four and i will laser burn a hole right through the kidnappers heads. 

 

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Dawn, plus climate, plus weather report, particularly clouds or lack thereof, plus observe rise and fall of tide so level of tidal surge, plus any recognizable constellations, plus setting some liverwurst out on the sand to see if there is bird life or animal life you can describe, plus toss a bit of liverwurst in water to attract predators and describe them.  Finally #### in the bag, you have a weapon.

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Was there air traffic at night, how high, how frequent?  Mark direction of travel in sand and then when dawn comes determine a rough compass direction for that travel.   Water is in pints and not liters, a salient fact, maybe that you are near markets selling U.S. based products, or was it a big pint, an imperial pint, a British sized pint, I think most of us could tell the difference.  let the folks know about liverwurst, rye bread, and Peanut butter as thee are all regional.  Look for manufacture markings on bottom of bag and on water bottle, they will have some.

Edited by Ditkaless Wonders
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37 minutes ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

Dawn, plus climate, plus weather report, particularly clouds or lack thereof, plus observe rise and fall of tide so level of tidal surge, plus any recognizable constellations, plus setting some liverwurst out on the sand to see if there is bird life or animal life you can describe, plus toss a bit of liverwurst in water to attract predators and describe them.  Finally #### in the bag, you have a weapon.

 

19 minutes ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

Was there air traffic at night, how high, how frequent?  Mark direction of travel in sand and then when dawn comes determine a rough compass direction for that travel.   Water is in pints and not liters, a salient fact, maybe that you are near markets selling U.S. based products, or was it a big pint, an imperial pint, a British sized pint, I think most of us could tell the difference.  let the folks know about liverwurst, rye bread, and Peanut butter as thee are all regional.  Look for manufacture markings on bottom of bag and on water bottle, they will have some.

These are really great, DW.

I can fit them into my big plan.

😎

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6 hours ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

I will find you.

I believe you.

 

1 hour ago, Worm said:

The first, brief 10 second call would have to inform my team on the other end to record the receiving line for the foreseeable future so that I could talk as quickly as possible.

Good one. And, that leads me to think that I should do the same on my end. Then, they could talk as quickly as possible to me as well. As others have mentioned, the sand is a great way to take notes. It would work best when it is damp - like a good sand castle level of damp.

Then, once the record in the sand, I should find a way to store it better. I think someone earlier mentioned writing on the paper bag with liverwurst or peanut butter. I could also try to find some rocks and shells in the sand and surf - and then use these as a way to record my data - like the early markings of the ancient traders and merchants. It won't need to be a narrative - it just needs to be an easy way for me to recognize and remember the data I need.

I could also spend time working on remembering the data as best I could - in case the written portion is destroyed. I would want to focus on the most important data first.

Nice.

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