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2019-20 NBA Thread: new forum, same great taste


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35 minutes ago, Juxtatarot said:

Pacers fan? I’ve been really curious what they’ll do with their potential cap space and all their free agents.  Who do you expect will be staying and going? 

Thats a tough question. It's easy to forget that the Pacers were solidly in the 3-4 spot in the Eastern Conference before Oladipo went down.  They were a feisty team--but they relied very heavily on one player.  If they let collison go--they certainly need help at the PG position--but needless to say--I'm not a Rubio fan.   My gut instinct is that they end up with a guy like Rubio--or end up making a move for somebody that isn't on anybody's radar. Maybe some sort of package for a guy like Dragic.  The bummer is that the team deserves to be considered a better landing spot for star free agents in regards to how well they played before they were decimated by injuries.  The problem is that that was so long ago that I don't think any of the big free agents considers Indiana a "sexy" landing spot. 

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NBA 2k20 cover released

Well folks, it's your favorite time of year - that's right, it's time for Caustic's second annual mock draft! Putting it in spoilers here as to not clutter up the thread - Go Nets. 

Well, bye.

I just ventured into a Celtics forum to see what insight I could gather.

:mellow:

I backed away slowly.  Thank you people for not being collective idiots.

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7 minutes ago, jvdesigns2002 said:

Thats a tough question. It's easy to forget that the Pacers were solidly in the 3-4 spot in the Eastern Conference before Oladipo went down.  They were a feisty team--but they relied very heavily on one player.  If they let collison go--they certainly need help at the PG position--but needless to say--I'm not a Rubio fan.   My gut instinct is that they end up with a guy like Rubio--or end up making a move for somebody that isn't on anybody's radar. Maybe some sort of package for a guy like Dragic.  The bummer is that the team deserves to be considered a better landing spot for star free agents in regards to how well they played before they were decimated by injuries.  The problem is that that was so long ago that I don't think any of the big free agents considers Indiana a "sexy" landing spot. 

What about Bogdanovic and Young returning?

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53 minutes ago, Charlie Harper said:

So a slightly less useless Ricky Rubio is his ceiling?

I guess if you want my ultimate upside for Lonzo is Old Andre Igoudala - but sadly Iggy has a better offensive game then Lonzo. 

No--I see his ceiling being closer to a taller more dynamic version of what Rajon Rondo used to be.  A guy that can run an offense, could guard multiple positions, a defensive pest while doing so,  a solid rebounding point guard with very solid court vision.  In the current NBA--lots of point guards are asked to not only run an offense--but they are asked to be major contributors on the scoring end as well.  So many of the point guards that get asked to do this suffer defensively because they are asked to do so much on the offensive end.  You put Ball on a court with a guy like that---and it opens things up on both ends of the court.  

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1 minute ago, Juxtatarot said:

What about Bogdanovic and Young returning?

My guess and hope is that they retain those guys.  With that said--my fear is that a lot of these middle and upper middle tier free agents are going to get offered stupid money by the teams that miss out on the superstar free agents.   I'm not trying to avoid giving you direct answers--but I will be the first to admit that this years off season/free agency period is one of the most ambiguous that I can remember.   

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I think a smart coach willing to experiment could do some interesting things with Ball and his unique skillset.

His plus skills are defense, rebounding and passing.  His deficiency is shooting from, well, anywhere.  Let him play more like Draymond Green, get the rebound or a steal and lead the charge like a maniac.  If stuck in half court, have him cut off the ball and flash to high post or top of the key, looking to drive or find the open man.  Of course, this would require a concerted effort of team fast breaks, off ball movement and quick passing/unselfish play like the peak Warriors team pre-KD.

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10 hours ago, Anarchy99 said:

Is it really Ainge's fault that no true superstar wants to play in Boston? They have not been able to get a marquee player sign as a free agent, and any top tier player has indicated he wouldn't re-sign there if acquired by trade. Bottom line, in today's NBA you can't win without a Top 5-ish player and the Celtics can't get one.

Wow.  I feel bad for Boston.

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5 minutes ago, Good Posting Judge said:

Feels like everything's falling apart just right for the Bangos to swoop in and take it home next year.

Everyone is seemingly eager to offer Brogdon a huge contract that they’ll have to match. They are desperately trying to rid themselves of Snell’s and Ersan’s contracts.  They are likely going to offer Middleton a max contract when he probably isn’t worth it. They don’t have Bird rights on Lopez. Mirotic is as good as gone.

All is not well in Fonzietown.

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Hawfud is getting paid:

Marc Stein‏ @TheSteinLine

The belief making the front-office rounds tonight is that Al Horford already knows there’s a four-year contract worth in excess of $100 million waiting out there for him June 30 .. knowledge that led to Horford’s talks with the Celtics dissolving

9:48 PM - 18 Jun 2019

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3 minutes ago, Juxtatarot said:

Everyone is seemingly eager to offer Brogdon a huge contract that they’ll have to match. They are desperately trying to rid themselves of Snell’s and Ersan’s contracts.  They are likely going to offer Middleton a max contract when he probably isn’t worth it. They don’t have Bird rights on Lopez. Mirotic is as good as gone.

All is not well in Fonzietown.

They have to pay Middleton and need to find a way to bring Lopez back.  The market for Brogdon may reach $14M/yr.  They may put him out of reach and they probably shouldn't pony up for Mirotic since he wasn't really utilized last year.

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25 minutes ago, Jayrod said:

They have to pay Middleton and need to find a way to bring Lopez back.  The market for Brogdon may reach $14M/yr.  They may put him out of reach and they probably shouldn't pony up for Mirotic since he wasn't really utilized last year.

I don’t think there’s any way they can bring Lopez back unless he takes a lot less (MLE) to stay. 

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What are the odds that Sacramento is the team offering big money to Horford? They could use a veteran glue guy like him, and he is not a bad fit next to Bagley. The news of Horford’s deal broke a few hours after Barnes declined his option as well, maybe not a coincidence when we’re still two weeks away from free agency... :tinfoilhat:

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Trying to figure out who the Horford team is, my best guess is the Knicks. They have a ton of money, Irving seems to be out of the picture and KD might be as well, that leaves them with a hole burning in their pocket. Might be able to play him with Robinson as well, and having a player from the DR in NYC is an added bonus I guess. Teams like the Clippers possibly have space, but for roster construction purposes I think teams like them and Dallas can be eliminated. Hard to see them shooting a wad that big this early. Making a gigantic, possible overpay on NYK right out of the gate to grab someone from the C's seems like a Knicksy thing to do.

Dark horses are the Nets, Hawks, and Kings. Teaming up with Irving in BK would obviously be hilarious.

 

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2 hours ago, caustic said:

What are the odds that Sacramento is the team offering big money to Horford? They could use a veteran glue guy like him, and he is not a bad fit next to Bagley. The news of Horford’s deal broke a few hours after Barnes declined his option as well, maybe not a coincidence when we’re still two weeks away from free agency... :tinfoilhat:

Well, i'm sure that any gimpy-kneed 33yo could be lured by 4/$100, but it don't feel right

2 hours ago, Good Posting Judge said:

Teaming up with Irving in BK would obviously be hilarious.

 

This is where my mind keeps falling. Teams themselves wouldnt be 'tampering' on Horford this early and the rumor dropped like something was already set. Would kinda have to be Al joining forces w a player rather than an org. Kyrie & Al played beautifully together, there was no indication of any special friendship or rancor between them, but then Horford was a Robert 'Chief' Parrish kinda guy - just talk about the game & team. Nets made two early moves to clear money without any indication of anyone specific besides Kyrie in mind (other than vague thoughts of KD or Jimmy Buckets possibly buddying along w Irving), but last year they kept talking about getting someone who could allow Jarrett Allen to wander & Horford would be perfect for that (as well as really preferring, wear&tearwise, not to play the 5). If they were indeed upset w Boston mgmt, where better to avenge that than going to the team that the Green just "ripped off"? Kyrie, Horford, JAllen, Prince & LeVert on the wings, Dinwiddie/Harris/Kurucs filling the cracks dont sound half-bad in the Borough.

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5 hours ago, caustic said:

What are the odds that Sacramento is the team offering big money to Horford? They could use a veteran glue guy like him, and he is not a bad fit next to Bagley. The news of Horford’s deal broke a few hours after Barnes declined his option as well, maybe not a coincidence when we’re still two weeks away from free agency... :tinfoilhat:

Could be the Lakers too - I don’t think AD wants to play center full time. 

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7 hours ago, wikkidpissah said:

i only see 70mil in commitments there, too, but whatever.

Scary Terry will cost about the same as Smart did. They need someone on the ball. Otherwise, i wanna see how this team plays, whether there was damage from perceptions of racism/Kyrie drink-stirring, whether there's growth in the Jays, whether Gordo's leg & confidence knit, whether Timelord is a post presence and i'm in no mood to wade out into Supermax hysteria

No one wants to fault Traitor Danny, cause of Leprecharma, more than i, but i dont. except for a technicality, Uncle Drew & the Brow would be wearing the Green today and y'all would be shaking in your boots. no one could know that Irving had Borderline Personality Disorder two years ago and the most Danny can be found guilty of is insensitivity toward basketball hero IT4 and wanting to remount his Garnett/Pierce/Allen triumph of a decade ago.

Kyrie's personality disorder, or whatever it is, was...kinda known two years ago. Not many had a good idea to what degree though. And Cleveland fan just couldn't talk about it because 29 other teams would have called it baseless sour grapes. Can't convince me people on the inside of the NBA didn't know if they were paying attention. 

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13 hours ago, jvdesigns2002 said:

Ingram and Ball were not "ESPN" mock draft picks.   They were both consensus picks to go very early in the draft.  Had either of them fallen a few spots in the draft--the vast majority of NBA teams would have absolutely taken them or traded up to have gotten them.   Both of those guys possess basketball intangibles that teams value when they draft. Both are tall and quick for their positions, both have court vision, both have length, both are very good defenders, both have solid handles for their positions--both just had definicies in shooting.  With practice---players can absolutely learn to shoot better. You cannot teach court vision, length and the heart to be a great defender.  People like clowning those picks because it was the Lakers that made them.  Ignoring that fact is intellectually dishonest.  The person who made the statement clowning the Lakers for making those pics is a Nuggets fan.  Funny how he didn't mention the Nuggets picking Mudiaye over guys like Devin Booker and Myles Turner.   It's convenient to clown a team when thats what the bandwagon wants to do.   

As a Wizards fan who vividly recalls the Jan Vesely era I am 100% sure that people are not clowning those picks only because it was the Lakers that made them.

What you've said here doesn't let the team off the hook. Yes, most people agreed those guys would be better than they have been.  But if you have back to back #2 overall picks and you come away with two guys whose value has plummeted as much as these two, you've done something wrong. Maybe it's scouting, maybe its player development, and yeah some of it is likely bad luck. But as far as I can recall it's pretty much unprecedented for a team to get so little value from back to back top 3 picks, which IMO makes it pretty noteworthy. Especially when you consider that they actually had THREE top 3 picks in a row, and the first one was a guy they traded to make room for one of the later picks who suddenly transformed from an afterthought into an all-star once he left LA.

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39 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

As a Wizards fan who vividly recalls the Jan Vesely era I am 100% sure that people are not clowning those picks only because it was the Lakers that made them.

What you've said here doesn't let the team off the hook. Yes, most people agreed those guys would be better than they have been.  But if you have back to back #2 overall picks and you come away with two guys whose value has plummeted as much as these two, you've done something wrong. Maybe it's scouting, maybe its player development, and yeah some of it is likely bad luck. But as far as I can recall it's pretty much unprecedented for a team to get so little value from back to back top 3 picks, which IMO makes it pretty noteworthy. Especially when you consider that they actually had THREE top 3 picks in a row, and the first one was a guy they traded to make room for one of the later picks who suddenly transformed from an afterthought into an all-star once he left LA.

We just will have to agree to disagree.  Sure the Lakers could have drafted better--but the narrative that they did historically bad is just not true.   The value of those guys did not plummet.  Those two guys were primary cogs on a trade that landed them a chance at a guy that has been a top 5 player in the league over the past several seasons.  Sure--Davis only has one year left on the deal--but look at what Toronto just traded away for a one year chance at a guy. They traded away an all star player that was the face of their franchise for a one year chance at Kawhi.   OKC traded away Oladipo for a one year chance at a guy like Paul George--- Oladipo has proven that he's one of the best players in the league when healthy.   Getting Anthony Davis from New Orleans for even one year  was going to require giving up a haul--and those two players were an integral part of that haul.   The narrative that Ball and Ingram carried virtually value is not true at all. 

Like I said earlier-the bandwagon attitude is to pile on the Lakers because it is the "cool" thing to do.   Lets look at what the Nuggets have done with their first found picks since 2013.  Here are the list of guys they drafted in the first round since 2013- Gobert, McDermott, Mudiaye,  Jamal murray, Donovan Mitchell, and Michael Porter Jr.     They effectively traded Donovan Mitchell and Rudy Gobert for nothing.   McDermott and  Mudiaye were complete busts. Mudiaye couldn't even beat a way over the hill Jameer Nelson for the starting pg job.   Murray has been the only first round pick in the past six years that has panned out.  Michael Porter Jr.  Hasn't played a single minute in the NBA yet--so the jury is still out on him.    The point is--there are many teams that deserve to be scrutinized and clowned for their draft decisions and strategies--but the vast majority of people here choose to single the Lakers out because it's the cool thing to do.  

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8 hours ago, Good Posting Judge said:

Feels like everything's falling apart just right for the Bangos to swoop in and take it home next year.

potential post of the year take that to the bank bromigos

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do you brohans remember when the pistons beat that lakers team that had malone and shaq and gary paytone and and kobme who should have been in the clink well i do and it was fn awesome they won 4 to 1 and crushed las dreams of having an all star dream team win the title brohans look all i am saying is when mememt okur is on the team that beats la and makes all of the fair weather fans we only hear from when things are going right cry in their beer all is right in the world take that to the bank brochachos  

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10 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

The Sixers cannot afford Brogdon if they keep both Butler and Harris while letting Reddick walk, right?  

They pretty much can't afford anyone if they keep Butler & Harris. Renouncing all their FAs except those two still leaves them at $11MM over the cap.

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Just now, caustic said:

They pretty much can't afford anyone if they keep Butler & Harris. Renouncing all their FAs except those two still leaves them at $11MM over the cap.

Yeah, I think Brogdon is a contingency plan for Philly assuming one or both are gone.

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9 minutes ago, jvdesigns2002 said:

We just will have to agree to disagree.  Sure the Lakers could have drafted better--but the narrative that they did historically bad is just not true.   The value of those guys did not plummet.  Those two guys were primary cogs on a trade that landed them a chance at a guy that has been a top 5 player in the league over the past several seasons.  Sure--Davis only has one year left on the deal--but look at what Toronto just traded away for a one year chance at a guy. They traded away an all star player that was the face of their franchise for a one year chance at Kawhi.   OKC traded away Oladipo for a one year chance at a guy like Paul George--- Oladipo has proven that he's one of the best players in the league when healthy.   Getting Anthony Davis from New Orleans for even one year  was going to require giving up a haul--and those two players were an integral part of that haul.   The narrative that Ball and Ingram carried virtually value is not true at all. 

Like I said earlier-the bandwagon attitude is to pile on the Lakers because it is the "cool" thing to do.   Lets look at what the Nuggets have done with their first found picks since 2013.  Here are the list of guys they drafted in the first round since 2013- Gobert, McDermott, Mudiaye,  Jamal murray, Donovan Mitchell, and Michael Porter Jr.     They effectively traded Donovan Mitchell and Rudy Gobert for nothing.   McDermott and  Mudiaye were complete busts. Mudiaye couldn't even beat a way over the hill Jameer Nelson for the starting pg job.   Murray has been the only first round pick in the past six years that has panned out.  Michael Porter Jr.  Hasn't played a single minute in the NBA yet--so the jury is still out on him.    The point is--there are many teams that deserve to be scrutinized and clowned for their draft decisions and strategies--but the vast majority of people here choose to single the Lakers out because it's the cool thing to do.  

There's a lot of stuff I disagree with here- for example I think most people would say the draft picks inc the #4 overall this year were the primary cogs in the deal, which is why it didn't happen in February. You're also getting into trade decisions, and any time you shift the debate away from the subject at hand (draft day decisions) you're probably losing. And you're comparing mid-round draft picks by a team that improved by leaps and bounds over the last five years with top three picks by a team that has both LeBron James and the longest playoff drought in Los Angeles sports at the moment, all of which is just completely absurd.

But as for the bolded at the bottom- come on, dude. You and I both know why people single out the Lakers, and its not because everyone is ganging up to pick on the little guy. It's because their fans consistently flood opposing arenas and social media with obnoxious bragging and over the top Kobe worship and similar nonsense and have been doing so for years.  I don't mind that stuff nearly as much as I used to, but it's obviously the reason they are singled out more than other clubs when the fail.

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5 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

There's a lot of stuff I disagree with here- for example I think most people would say the draft picks inc the #4 overall this year were the primary cogs in the deal, which is why it didn't happen in February. You're also getting into trade decisions, and any time you shift the debate away from the subject at hand (draft day decisions) you're probably losing. And you're comparing mid-round draft picks by a team that improved by leaps and bounds over the last five years with top three picks by a team that has both LeBron James and the longest playoff drought in Los Angeles sports at the moment, all of which is just completely absurd.

But as for the bolded at the bottom- come on, dude. You and I both know why people single out the Lakers, and its not because everyone is ganging up to pick on the little guy. It's because their fans consistently flood opposing arenas and social media with obnoxious bragging and over the top Kobe worship and similar nonsense and have been doing so for years.  I don't mind that stuff nearly as much as I used to, but it's obviously the reason they are singled out more than other clubs when the fail.

Again--you are changing the narrative.  The Lakers with a healthy Lebron, Ball, Kuzma and Ingram were a top 4 team in the Western Conference and were cruising.  The team was not some train wreck the entire season as your made up narrative implies.  The team got absolutey decimated by injuries to their best players--Lebron, Kuzma, Ingram, Ball, Rondo--etc--and they slid down the standings as a result of that.   Your last paragraph proves my entire point--that people will create narratives to clown the Lakers (for whatever reason--bad fans, a hatred towards lebron, kobe super fans, not liking lonzo's dad..etc) because it is the cool bandwagon thing to do.  Yes--even with the Lakers super recent ineptitude--they still have won 2 championships in the past 11 years.  Tell me another franchise in the NBA that has that kind of relatively recent success that people have no problem treating like trash.  In any case--I feel like we are hijacking the thread at this point. It's pretty clear that you have made your point and I have made mine--let's just agree to disagree. 

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17 minutes ago, jvdesigns2002 said:

Again--you are changing the narrative.  The Lakers with a healthy Lebron, Ball, Kuzma and Ingram were a top 4 team in the Western Conference and were cruising.  The team was not some train wreck the entire season as your made up narrative implies.  The team got absolutey decimated by injuries to their best players--Lebron, Kuzma, Ingram, Ball, Rondo--etc--and they slid down the standings as a result of that.   Your last paragraph proves my entire point--that people will create narratives to clown the Lakers (for whatever reason--bad fans, a hatred towards lebron, kobe super fans, not liking lonzo's dad..etc) because it is the cool bandwagon thing to do.  Yes--even with the Lakers super recent ineptitude--they still have won 2 championships in the past 11 years.  Tell me another franchise in the NBA that has that kind of relatively recent success that people have no problem treating like trash.  In any case--I feel like we are hijacking the thread at this point. It's pretty clear that you have made your point and I have made mine--let's just agree to disagree. 

I didn't imply that anything was anything. I said some things are indisputably true in response to your post.  And you responded with bizarre, defensive homerism about subjects I hadn't even mentioned. So yeah, agree to disagree sounds like a plan.

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11 minutes ago, Frostillicus said:

what's this now?

Well....comparatively speaking, of course.

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4 hours ago, bananafish said:

This is insane. I've spent the last few days smiling inside as the Lakers fans around me crow about how they just won the offseason and subsequent championship with the Davis trade, knowing all the while that trusting in Pelinka to make this work was akin to believing Trump would deliver on his similar "best deals ever" promises, only worse. "They kept Kuzma!" was thrown around as evidence of Pelinka's trading prowess, turning a blind eye toward how absolutely bereft of assets they've become. I haven't seen it written up anywhere, but I know it's grim. Maybe I'll give it a shot.

It's like people can't remember who lost the Finals last week (due in large part to their lack of depth) and they've become intoxicated by the hypnotizing vapors of the LeBron/AD combination like nothing else matters. 

....

I've spent way too much time on this, but now I know more than the Lakers GM, which is nice. Thanks for reading.

I think you're forgetting that the Warriors could have still won the title if Klay doesn't get injured in game 6 even after KD was lost for the season. Sure Toronto won, but if the Dubs won, the narrative would have been all you need is stars to win.

So a team of LBJ, AD, near-max FA, Kuzma and a bunch of scrubs CAN win a title IF they stay healthy. Even if the Lakers just re-signed their own free agents a lineup of LBJ, Bullock, KCP, Kuzma, and Brow is pretty damn good...that's decent shooting and length on the team. With the Warriors injured, I'd take that 5 against anyone.

Obviously the team would be one injury away from disaster, but how many teams are in that same position? Pretty much the entire league. Again, once you sign LBJ you have to play for the present because you don't know how much time he has left. Adding Brow and going after another Max guy is the best way to increase their championship odds for the next 3 years. You really trust Pelinka to divy up the max salary spot and find 3-4 useful mid-level type players in a free agency? Especially in a free agents summer with all the cap space and teams willing to accelerate their plans in a wide open league? It'll be impossible to get that depth you recommended. 

So I can't really fault Pekinka so far. He has a 3 year window to win. You have to get AD and after getting AD, I'd much rather sign another MAX player over depth.

 

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9 minutes ago, Charlie Harper said:

I think you're forgetting that the Warriors could have still won the title if Klay doesn't get injured in game 6 even after KD was lost for the season. Sure Toronto won, but if the Dubs won, the narrative would have been all you need is stars to win.

i think you are forgetting that they didnt take that to the bank bromigo 

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10 minutes ago, Charlie Harper said:

I think you're forgetting that the Warriors could have still won the title if Klay doesn't get injured in game 6 even after KD was lost for the season. Sure Toronto won, but if the Dubs won, the narrative would have been all you need is stars to win.

So a team of LBJ, AD, near-max FA, Kuzma and a bunch of scrubs CAN win a title IF they stay healthy. Even if the Lakers just re-signed their own free agents a lineup of LBJ, Bullock, KCP, Kuzma, and Brow is pretty damn good...that's decent shooting and length on the team. With the Warriors injured, I'd take that 5 against anyone.

Obviously the team would be one injury away from disaster, but how many teams are in that same position? Pretty much the entire league. Again, once you sign LBJ you have to play for the present because you don't know how much time he has left. Adding Brow and going after another Max guy is the best way to increase their championship odds for the next 3 years. You really trust Pelinka to divy up the max salary spot and find 3-4 useful mid-level type players in a free agency? Especially in a free agents summer with all the cap space and teams willing to accelerate their plans in a wide open league? It'll be impossible to get that depth you recommended. 

So I can't really fault Pekinka so far. He has a 3 year window to win. You have to get AD and after getting AD, I'd much rather sign another MAX player over depth.

 

I think I'd prefer the depth, but all of it depends on what 35 year old LeBron has left in the tank, and that's something none of us can possibly know.  If he's a close facsimile of 31 year old LeBron I think you have enough star power to win the title already and just build out the depth. If there's gonna be a significant dropoff you pick up another star and then hope your front office finds some useful parts with minimal resources, a la Toronto.

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10 hours ago, Jayrod said:

I just ventured into a Celtics forum to see what insight I could gather.

:mellow:

I backed away slowly.  Thank you people for not being collective idiots.

We're only a few days from the "NBA has the least important draft picks" take, let's not get too crazy.

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i mean cripes if the indians had lazer guns wed all be toast but that doesnt have a hill of beans to do with the price of t in china take that to the bank brohans 

Edited by SWC
ps when i say t i mean none other than mr t who is of course the greatest damn t in the universe take that to the bank bromigos
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5 minutes ago, Good Posting Judge said:

We're only a few days from the "NBA has the least important draft picks" take, let's not get too crazy.

Best part of that take was he said it with a 100% confidence, like everybody else in here wasn’t going to be like “wait what the #### was that again?”

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11 hours ago, wikkidpissah said:

i only see 70mil in commitments there, too, but whatever.

Scary Terry will cost about the same as Smart did. They need someone on the ball. Otherwise, i wanna see how this team plays, whether there was damage from perceptions of racism/Kyrie drink-stirring, whether there's growth in the Jays, whether Gordo's leg & confidence knit, whether Timelord is a post presence and i'm in no mood to wade out into Supermax hysteria

No one wants to fault Traitor Danny, cause of Leprecharma, more than i, but i dont. except for a technicality, Uncle Drew & the Brow would be wearing the Green today and y'all would be shaking in your boots. no one could know that Irving had Borderline Personality Disorder two years ago and the most Danny can be found guilty of is insensitivity toward basketball hero IT4 and wanting to remount his Garnett/Pierce/Allen triumph of a decade ago.

it seems pretty significant. I don't know if they can get a rookie who can make a big impact at current slots, so what do you expect 45 win season? After "Scary" Terry's temper tantrum with Steven A. it is funny to think that he may actually be back in Boston. Sends a hilarious message to your team with all of that.

The rumors circulating are there that there was a lot of animosity about Steven's favoring Heyward and treating more favorably than everyone else. Who honestly knows, but maybe the info coming out now holds more weight with Horford and Kyrie looking at leaving and not looking back.

listening to the Boston media/Bill Simmons, I can't imagine anyone wanting to go to Boston as a free agent seeing how they just constantly tore into Kyrie.

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Well folks, it's your favorite time of year - that's right, it's time for Caustic's second annual mock draft! Putting it in spoilers here as to not clutter up the thread - Go Nets. :towelwave:

1.01  Pelicans: Zion Williamson, F/C, Duke

1.02  Grizzlies: Ja Morant, PG, Murray State

1.03  Knicks: RJ Barrett, F, Duke

I didn’t realize that the Knicks were considering Darius Garland so strongly here, but I think they ultimately stick with Barrett.

1.04  Pelicans: Deandre Hunter, F, Virginia

If I had to guess, I’d say the Pels trade this to Atlanta for #8 and #10. If they decide to stay here, though, Hunter would be a nice pick. He would be a great complement to Holiday/Ingram/Zion.

1.05  Cavaliers: Jarrett Culver, G, Texas Tech

Culver and Sexton would make an interesting backcourt pairing next season. I don’t have a lot of analysis for this pick – the Cavs are a bad team, Culver is a good player, it’s a match made in heaven. Moving right along.

1.06  Suns: Darius Garland, PG, Vanderbilt

As we all know, both Phoenix and Chicago are in desperate need of-term point guards. Fortunately, both Garland and White are still available for them here - the two biggest no-brainer picks in the draft besides 1.01 and 1.02.

1.07  Bulls: Coby White, PG, North Carolina

1.08  Hawks: Cam Reddish, G/F, Duke

Atlanta doesn’t have much young talent on the wing – they fix that and add Reddish here, who got overshadowed in college by his other superstar teammates.

1.09  Wizards: Sekou Doumboya, F, France

Whether the Wizards opt into a full rebuild or not, their upcoming season is probably lost due to Wall’s injury. They can afford to take a high-upside project like Doumboya who might not be ready on day 1.

1.10  Hawks: Jaxson Hayes, C, Texas

A decent comparison for Hayes is former Texas center Jarrett Allen, and the Hawks could use a player like that. They don’t need another ball-dominant player with Young, Collins, and now Reddish already on the roster. What they need from their starting C is efficient rim running and solid defense – Hayes fits the bill.

1.11  Timberwolves: PJ Washington, F, Kentucky

A stretch 4 who can space the floor and give KAT plenty of room to work is ideal for Minny. (This pick may be on the move at some point)

1.12  Hornets: Brandon Clarke, F, Gonzaga

It seems likely that Kemba takes the supermax to stay in Charlotte, in which case the Hornets could use an instant contributor who helps win games while Kemba is in his prime. Clarke is relatively old but should earn minutes from day one.

1.13  Heat: Romeo Langford, G, Indiana

No pressure kid, you’re just DWade’s replacement! Josh Richardson and Justise Winslow aren’t bad players but neither of them have any business being a team’s primary scorer. Langford could help lighten the load for those two – he could be a steal in the late lotto, as his college season was hampered by a nagging injury.

1.14  Celtics: Goga Bitadze, C, Georgia

I initially had Boston going a different direction here, but the Horford news changes things quite a bit – their most pressing need is in the frontcourt now.

1.15  Pistons: Nickeil Alexander-Walker, G, Virginia Tech

Detroit needs more playmaking from its guards, and Alexander-Walker could thrive as the third option behind Drummond and Griffin.

1.16  Magic: Nassir Little, G/F, North Carolina

With Bamba, Isaac, and now Little, Orlando has the potential to be a pretty menacing defensive team. Little was in the Barrett/Reddish tier coming out of high school and could be a great value at 16.

1.17  Hawks: Bol Bol, C, Oregon

It’s extremely hard to predict where Bol falls because opinions of him vary so much. I think he’s most likely to land on a rebuilding team that can be patient with him, so Atlanta makes sense here. Watching the Trae Young/Bol Bol PnR would be a blast.

1.18  Pacers: Tyler Herro, G, Kentucky

Herro has alligator arms but a nice shot and could be a decent scoring option for Indiana – this pick makes even more sense if they can’t keep Bogdanovic.

1.19  Spurs: Grant Williams, F, Tennessee

Raise your hand if you’ve heard this about Grant Williams: He isn’t really an athlete, but he’s a basketball player. That’s trite as hell, but there’s no better team for basketball players than San Antonio. He’s one of the most unique players in this draft IMO, Pop’s new Boris Diaw.

1.20  Celtics: Rui Hachimura, F, Gonzaga

Wasn’t that long ago that Rui was considered a top-10 pick. Boston got their Horford replacement at 14, now here’s their new Marcus Morris.

1.21  Thunder: Cameron Johnson, F, North Carolina

OKC once again needs to find a shooter who can give Westbrook/George some breathing room inside - that’s exactly what Johnson is. He’s a bit old, but shot 46% from deep in college and would fit nicely with the Thunder.

1.22  Celtics: Matisse Thybull, G, Washington

Thybull had some great defensive production at Washington with very little offense to go along with it.  A Marcus Smart + Matisse Thybull backcourt? Let’s make that happen.

1.23  Jazz: Keldon Johnson, G/F, Kentucky

Johnson seems like a high-effort high-floor kind of guy who would fit right in with the Jazz.

1.24  76ers: Ty Jerome, G, Virginia

Philly needs someone to shoot the ball - Lord knows their PG isn’t going to do it. ;) 

1.25  Trailblazers: Dylan Windler, G/F, Belmont

Another gifted shooter here, Windler would be a nice spark plug on the Blazers’ second unit.

1.26  Cavaliers: Mfiondu Kabengele, C, Florida State

Tristan Thompson’s contract comes off the books after this season, and Cleveland doesn’t really have anyone ready to take his spot. Kabengele offers solid defense and rim protection much like TT.

1.27  Nets: Luka Samanic, F/C, Croatia

Sean Marks was formerly a Spurs executive, and he brought San Antonio’s love of international players to Brooklyn – 3 of his last 4 selections have been Euros. The Nets go back to the well here and take a long, fluid big guy with some really interesting upside.

1.28  Warriors: Kevin Porter, G, USC

Porter has enough potential that he could go a lot earlier than this, but between his suspension and lack of college production I think there’s a good chance he falls into the late first round. Whomever the Warriors take here could get a lot of playing time next season, which could help Porter develop into a reliable scoring threat behind the splash bros.

1.29  Spurs: Luguentz Dort, G, Arizona State

Another classic Spurs pick here, Dort is a high-effort high-intensity guy who can be a valuable rotation player for Pop.

1.30  Bucks: Nic Claxton, C, Georgia

Claxton could eventually turn into the kind of 3P-shooting center that worked so well for Milwaukee last season. His defensive upside and athleticism are also far better than Brook Lopez’s.

Bonus pick:

2.01 Nets: Darius Bazley, F, Princeton High School

This is a swing for the fences, but I think the Nets’ strong player development team could turn Bazley into a quality player. He’s this year’s Mitchell Robinson – would probably be going higher had he not skipped college. 6’9” forwards with fluid athleticism and ball handling skills don’t grow on trees.

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2 hours ago, TobiasFunke said:

As a Wizards fan who vividly recalls the Jan Vesely era I am 100% sure that people are not clowning those picks only because it was the Lakers that made them.

What you've said here doesn't let the team off the hook. Yes, most people agreed those guys would be better than they have been.  But if you have back to back #2 overall picks and you come away with two guys whose value has plummeted as much as these two, you've done something wrong. Maybe it's scouting, maybe its player development, and yeah some of it is likely bad luck. But as far as I can recall it's pretty much unprecedented for a team to get so little value from back to back top 3 picks, which IMO makes it pretty noteworthy. Especially when you consider that they actually had THREE top 3 picks in a row, and the first one was a guy they traded to make room for one of the later picks who suddenly transformed from an afterthought into an all-star once he left LA.

Agree with some of this, but I put the majority of the issues on lack of player development. It was why a guy like D'Angelo was somewhat screwed there, and leaves to become an all-star. Same with quite a few of the guys they let go. I am intrigued to see where Zubac can go now that he is with a different team. I don't expect him to get to an all-star level or anything, but without a doubt I think he has a better career with another team than if he had stuck on the Lakers

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2 hours ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

The Sixers cannot afford Brogdon if they keep both Butler and Harris while letting Reddick walk, right?  

not in this market, no (especially with Ben getting the max next year). that was why those trades were such a big deal for the team last year. they have a lot more salary cap options with both being under Sixers last year than as incoming free agent

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So funny rumor so far today is that Houston is going to aggressively go after Jimmy Butler (https://www.si.com/nba/2019/06/19/free-agency-rumors-trade-draft-news-lakers-jimmy-butler-kawhi-leonard). How the F do they do that? Unless I am missing something, they are already over the cap   https://www.spotrac.com/nba/houston-rockets/cap/

So what, they are going to make 2-3 trades before 7/1 and get him? I love the craziness of this time period with the NBA, but it is funny how teams/people/media can say anything and it automatically becomes news. Maybe I am missing something here, but why in the world with the rumors from yesterday would this seem plausible at all, expept this being someone from Houston sending this message out to get the Chris Paul trade request rumors out of the media

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