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2019-20 NBA Thread: new forum, same great taste (5 Viewers)

Kawhi Leonard and Paul George playing together tonight vs Celtics.

RIP NBA.

 
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Long Ball Larry said:
sixers so stunned by this 3 that they seem to have completely forgotten how to play basketball and now getting blown out by the knicks.
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Thank God the Mike Scott Bee Hive is there. no idea what the hell is wrong with this team, but i'm happy to coast until late December. this team is brutally frustrating so far though

 
The new Heat is going on runs, putting away bad opponents by double digits. On a night Butler goes 3 for 16, the Heat beats the Cavaliers 24. They have many scorers and a strong bench with Goran, Tyler, and Olynik coming off the bench, with Winslow and James Johnson still out. Their scouting department did a great job with undrafted Duncan Robinson, 1st round pick Herro, and stealing Kendrick Nunn from the Warriors at the end of last year. Bam is a candidate for most improved.

 
What a great game.

Celtics showed a lot, but have stuff to work on.  Clippers are good.

Super excited for this season.

 
On NBA radio this morning, the guys on the air were debating whether or not Doncic will end up as a top 20 all-time player. They admitted it was too early but discussed it anyway. So who are currently the top 20 players of all-time? I think these guys are obvious in no particular order:

  1. Jordan
  2. Lebron
  3. Magic
  4. Russell
  5. Wilt
  6. Kareem
  7. Bird
  8. Oscar
  9. Duncan
  10. Olajuwon
  11. Shaq
Today, the other 9 probably comes from this group, again not in order:

  1. Curry
  2. Durant
  3. Kobe
  4. West
  5. Mailman
  6. Barkley
  7. Garnett
  8. Baylor
  9. Dr. J
  10. Wade
That is 21, and I probably missed someone. That is a tough group to break into, but Leonard will probably do it if he stays healthy. Maybe Harden, but defense matters.

Who did I miss?

 
Anthony Davis has a good chance like Leonard and Harden to get in there. Dirk Nowitzki could likely replace a couple of those guys in the 12-20 range

 
Long Ball Larry said:
DWYANE Wade?

The 21st-best player of all time?
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Well, that's why I posted to ask. I said the other 9 (12-20) probably comes from a group of 10 players I named, including Wade, and then I named a couple others I figured could break in. Then I said I probably missed a couple. :shrug:

Perhaps I overrated Wade, no big deal.

 
Will Doncic be a top-20 player?  who knows?

Is that his ceiling?  Probably.  It's going to get really hard to compare guys like him and some of the other modern-era players with guys like Barkley, Malone, maybe even Dr. J and Baylor.

He also will need to improve his defense in some way, I think, to really get into that elite echelon.

 
Just looking at past MVP winners Moses Malone might sneak into the top 20. Crazy that Hakeem, Shaq and Kobe only have one MVP each(and Nash has two)  :o

 
Long Ball Larry said:
Will Doncic be a top-20 player?  who knows?

Is that his ceiling?  Probably.  It's going to get really hard to compare guys like him and some of the other modern-era players with guys like Barkley, Malone, maybe even Dr. J and Baylor.

He also will need to improve his defense in some way, I think, to really get into that elite echelon.
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I mean, you could say a bunch of players have top 20 ceilings. I’m not a huge Trae Young believer, for example, but you couldn’t rule out him having a Curry type career. I also suspect that Luka’s ball-dominant style will not fare well in the playoffs, and that would obviously impact his ultimate legacy. 

 
For the sake of comparison, here were the top three rounds of the 2011 Great NBA Draft here in this forum. This is a list of 48 players, and the drafters were filling out five teams representing different eras back to 1947. Still, you'd think a list of Top 20 all time could be taken from these names ( players on Kal El's list above bolded red):

Round 1
1. Michael Jordan
2. Wilt Chamberlain
3. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
4. Magic Johnson
5. Oscar Robertson
6. Larry Bird
7. Bill Russell
8. Shaquille O'Neal
9. Hakeem Olajuwan
10. David Robinson
11. Moses Malone
12. Karl Malone
13. Kobe Bryant
14. Tim Duncan
15. John Havlicek
16. Jerry West

Round 2
1. Charles Barkley
2. Elgin Baylor
3. LeBron James
4. Kevin Garnett
5. Bob Cousy
6. Julius Erving
7. Bob Pettit
8. Scottie Pippin
9. Elvin Hayes
10. Dolph Schayes
11. Isiah Thomas
12. Clyde Drexler
13. Dwyane Wade
14. John Stockton
15. Dirk Nowitzki
16. Rick Barry

Round 3
1. Walt Frazier
2. Allen Iverson
3. George Gervin
4. Billy Cunningham
5. George Mikan
6. Steve Nash
7. Bill Walton
8. Pete Maravich
9. Kevin McHale
10. Gary Payton
11. Patrick Ewing
12. Dominique Wilkens
13. Dave Cowens
14. Willis Reed
15. Nate Thurmond
16. Jason Kidd

...

Regarding the remaining two players on Kal El's list above:  Steph Curry was a second-year player when this draft was going on - he went undrafted. And Kevin Durant went in the fifth round.

So ... any of those old-timers deserve a spot in the top 20 (Mikan, Schayes)? Maybe Patrick Ewing? Moses? Pippen? The Admiral?

 
Kraft... said:
Fun 1st quarter in this Celts Clips game :popcorn:  
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Great game last night.  Celtics playing Theis down the stretch was a killer though.  Beverly hit a few corner 3's as a direct result of his defensive shortcomings late.

Just when you wonder how healthy Kawhi is he puts down a massive dunk, and ends the game with a timely, athletic block to seal the win.

Not bad for mid-November.

 
Doug B said:
For the sake of comparison, here were the top three rounds of the 2011 Great NBA Draft here in this forum. This is a list of 48 players, and the drafters were filling out five teams representing different eras back to 1947. Still, you'd think a list of Top 20 all time could be taken from these names ( players on Kal El's list above bolded red😞

Round 1
1. Michael Jordan
2. Wilt Chamberlain
3. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
4. Magic Johnson
5. Oscar Robertson
6. Larry Bird
7. Bill Russell
8. Shaquille O'Neal
9. Hakeem Olajuwan
10. David Robinson
11. Moses Malone
12. Karl Malone
13. Kobe Bryant
14. Tim Duncan
15. John Havlicek
16. Jerry West

Round 2
1. Charles Barkley
2. Elgin Baylor
3. LeBron James
4. Kevin Garnett
5. Bob Cousy
6. Julius Erving
7. Bob Pettit
8. Scottie Pippin
9. Elvin Hayes
10. Dolph Schayes
11. Isiah Thomas
12. Clyde Drexler
13. Dwyane Wade
14. John Stockton
15. Dirk Nowitzki
16. Rick Barry

Round 3
1. Walt Frazier
2. Allen Iverson
3. George Gervin
4. Billy Cunningham
5. George Mikan
6. Steve Nash
7. Bill Walton
8. Pete Maravich
9. Kevin McHale
10. Gary Payton
11. Patrick Ewing
12. Dominique Wilkens
13. Dave Cowens
14. Willis Reed
15. Nate Thurmond
16. Jason Kidd

...

Regarding the remaining two players on Kal El's list above:  Steph Curry was a second-year player when this draft was going on - he went undrafted. And Kevin Durant went in the fifth round.

So ... any of those old-timers deserve a spot in the top 20 (Mikan, Schayes)? Maybe Patrick Ewing? Moses? Pippen? The Admiral?
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iirc, that draft was made to fill a grid covering several eras and therefore skewed old for vbd purposes

 
wikkidpissah said:
iirc, that draft was made to fill a grid covering several eras and therefore skewed old for vbd purposes
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Top-to-bottom, this is true. I think the first three rounds or so only had a handful of guys taken "too early" because of the ground rules, though. I gave the draft link above in case anyone felt like checking the entire list of drafted players.

 
I was part of that draft (one of my fondest memories of the FFA and I finished 4th) and picked Moses with my first pick.  It was partially a value pick, but with 3 MVP's he absolutely belongs in the top 20 of all time list.

David Robinson does as well.  I keep wanting to put Stockton up there, but with no rings and no MVP's while playing with another top 20 guy makes me think he is on the outside looking in.

Kobe also belongs in the for-sure list.  I dislike him and am not a fan, but basketball-wise, he is in the top 12 as a lock.  No one else in the second list belongs next to him.  Some crazy fan-boys put him in their top 5 which is ridiculous, but his 5 rings and multiple Finals are impressive.

Currently, I'd bump out Wade, West and probably Durant.  Leonard is still a bit from getting on the top 20 list.

One guy that is a lock on his current trajectory is Giannis.

 
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Jayrod said:
I was part of that draft (one of my fondest memories of the FFA and I finished 4th) and picked Moses with my first pick.  It was partially a value pick, but with 3 MVP's he absolutely belongs in the top 20 of all time list.

David Robinson does as well.  I keep wanting to put Stockton up there, but with no rings and no MVP's while playing with another top 20 guy makes me think he is on the outside looking in.

Kobe also belongs in the for-sure list.  I dislike him and am not a fan, but basketball-wise, he is in the top 12 as a lock.  No one else in the second list belongs next to him.  Some crazy fan-boys put him in their top 5 which is ridiculous, but his 5 rings and multiple Finals

Currently, I'd bump out Wade, West and probably Durant.  Leonard is still a bit from getting on the top 20 list.

One guy that is a lock on his current trajectory is Giannis.
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i'd like to do a straight all-time chooseup draft sometime. i'll lose, if course, cuz i'm a freak for the short-career greats like Walton, Petrovic, Maravich, Sabonis Sr, etc but i loooove arguing that stuff

 
in thinking about Wade a little more, I do now recall that he was a pretty damn good defender in his earlier years.  My sense of him is probably clouded by his later years when he was more of a mid-range guy out of step with where the league was.

interestingly, the latest thinking basketball ep that just dropped is a deep dive into comparing harden, kobe and wade.  haven't listened yet.

 
Gr00vus said:
Hey @SWC - NBA channel is playing a Kobe marathon all day tomorrow. I figured you'd want to make time for that.
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i just wanted to let you know that i did not watch this because i am not in to watching pervert molesters get cheered by a fan base that will apparently overlook anything a guy does no matter how horrible if it gets them ws maybe the lake show can change its name to the los angeles epstein weinsteins take that to the bank bromigos 

 
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