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2019-20 NBA Thread: new forum, same great taste


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Besides the recent bad moves (losing Butler, The Fultz/Tatum trade, signing Harris and Horford) the issue with Philly is their strength (Embiid and Simmons) is their weakness...while both players are super-talented I don't think they have what it takes mentally to be the top players on a championship team...if Philly stays built around these two they will remain a competitive tease but not be legit championship contenders...they need to move on from one of them and my guess is it will be Simmons if they do because his outside shot hinders what should be an elite player.

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NBA 2k20 cover released

Well folks, it's your favorite time of year - that's right, it's time for Caustic's second annual mock draft! Putting it in spoilers here as to not clutter up the thread - Go Nets. 

Well, bye.

1 hour ago, wikkidpissah said:

it's weird cuz i'm pissed, too. i'm a b-ball fan before i'm a Celts fan and i wanted to see perhaps the most unprecedented duo ever put togetherr light it up. not saying there's a coach out there who can turn that around - it's just that Brown was never going to get either to put Ws over their brand/ego or work together

I mean yeah "only" 2 rings is disappointing, but I would still call what Durant and Curry did "lighting it up".

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1 hour ago, Gr00vus said:

Seems like the process was on the verge of big returns when the league pulled the plug on it. I wonder if Hinkie would have done the whole Fultz thing...

He may have taken Fultz but he NEVER would have given up a first. Unless it was to screw over Ainge by saying he'd take Fultz and then drafted Tatum. 

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44 minutes ago, Boston said:

Besides the recent bad moves (losing Butler, The Fultz/Tatum trade, signing Harris and Horford) the issue with Philly is their strength (Embiid and Simmons) is their weakness...while both players are super-talented I don't think they have what it takes mentally to be the top players on a championship team...if Philly stays built around these two they will remain a competitive tease but not be legit championship contenders...they need to move on from one of them and my guess is it will be Simmons if they do because his outside shot hinders what should be an elite player.

Now they do. If they had done the move of putting Ben at the 4 this past off-season though and telling him to suck it up, Butler stays as the ball dominant guard. Tobias walks and Horford isn't even in the thought process. Fill in the holes with the Horford money. Probably resign JJ with some of it. 

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1 hour ago, Balco said:

I think Embiid is absolutely a player that can thrive on a championship team. It’s just that Simmons doesn’t fit at all.

 

I think they are both fundamentally flawed building blocks in the modern NBA. I don’t think you can run an offense through a high usage center and still be a legit title contender anymore, and you can’t win with a PG who can’t and (even worse) won’t shoot either. 

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1 hour ago, Boston said:

Besides the recent bad moves (losing Butler, The Fultz/Tatum trade, signing Harris and Horford) the issue with Philly is their strength (Embiid and Simmons) is their weakness...while both players are super-talented I don't think they have what it takes mentally to be the top players on a championship team...if Philly stays built around these two they will remain a competitive tease but not be legit championship contenders...they need to move on from one of them and my guess is it will be Simmons if they do because his outside shot hinders what should be an elite player.

They really just don't seem to fit together at all. Outside of the Fultz/Tatum trade, the real problem is that they won high picks in drafts with a lot of busts at the top of it. Agree that they should move on from Simmons, but I think they will get some appealing offers for Embid.

ETA: Hope we at least get an end to Sixers fans changing "Trust the Process" at road games :yucky:

Edited by Desert_Power
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2 hours ago, Balco said:

I think Embiid is absolutely a player that can thrive on a championship team. It’s just that Simmons doesn’t fit at all.

Tatum would have been perfect on that team.

So would Ingram if we are gonna debate Ben not being on the team Ingram should've been the pick. As the roster was currently constructed back then and today he's a better fit so is Tatum though 

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Michael K-B

@therealmikekb

Ty Lue is the #Sixers top target to replace Brett Brown, per

@wojespn

.5:06 PM · Aug 24, 2020·TweetDeck

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23 minutes ago, The Kansas Comet said:

The Lakers just unleashed a half of pure abuse on Portland.  It's an easier game when the shots go in.  The Blazers are just too thin to hang right now.

No kidding, they input a cheat code tonight. They almost never shoot this well from distance.

Edited by EYLive
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1 hour ago, Insein said:

Now they do. If they had done the move of putting Ben at the 4 this past off-season though and telling him to suck it up, Butler stays as the ball dominant guard. Tobias walks and Horford isn't even in the thought process. Fill in the holes with the Horford money. Probably resign JJ with some of it. 

I thought I heard JJ say the team never offered him a deal to resign. I could be wrong. It seems they were never interested in continuing to together at least from Sixers stand point it looked like. I could have that all wrong but thought he mentioned this on his Pod. 

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56 minutes ago, Desert_Power said:

They really just don't seem to fit together at all. Outside of the Fultz/Tatum trade, the real problem is that they won high picks in drafts with a lot of busts at the top of it. Agree that they should move on from Simmons, but I think they will get some appealing offers for Embid.

ETA: Hope we at least get an end to Sixers fans changing "Trust the Process" at road games :yucky:

Where did those FANS even come from because they were non existent here for yrs

Yes Joel would definitely get them appealing offers but I think their go to is to trade Ben and just get rid of him at this point. 

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3 hours ago, Deamon said:

Yep, NBA is by far the league that's the hardest to turn around your team without drafting a super star.  If you don't draft a star (Milwaukee, Dallas, Warriors) or have a team where top FA's flock to (Houston, Clippers, Raptors), you're a nobody.  Much easier to turn around a bad team in the other 3 sports.

And where did some of these teams draft their stars? This is the highest the warriors have picked in years. Curry fell into their laps. Giannis could've been had by Philly in the top 10 as well as others but went to Mil at 15. Doncic should've been the consensus #1 last year and went 5th. 

I still don't get whats appealing about Hou and FAs. I also don't see whats appealing about going to Clips when you are just second fiddle to the Lakers. I could see why someone might go to Tor. Some of these cities are just weird though of where guys want to play or not play. MIA with LBJ and company? I get it the weather and night life but most of the fans are just fake as hell. And this is coming from a guy who's cousin works for the Heat in their Analytics department for advertising. 

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31 minutes ago, The Kansas Comet said:

The Lakers just unleashed a half of pure abuse on Portland.  It's an easier game when the shots go in.  The Blazers are just too thin to hang right now.

At one point the game was 24-8 on 8/24 Mamba day!!!!!!

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34 minutes ago, The Kansas Comet said:

The Lakers just unleashed a half of pure abuse on Portland.  It's an easier game when the shots go in.  The Blazers are just too thin to hang right now.

I was kind of hoping Dame with a resurgent Melo could stick around longer, but the Blazers just do not have the squad for a run.

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23 minutes ago, DJackson10 said:

Michael K-B

@therealmikekb

Ty Lue is the #Sixers top target to replace Brett Brown, per

@wojespn

.5:06 PM · Aug 24, 2020·TweetDeck

To add to this Lue is a Clutch client. The Same Agency Ben Simmons is signed too. 

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6 hours ago, Balco said:

I think Embiid is absolutely a player that can thrive on a championship team. 

As the #1 player on that team or as a starter with another player as the man?  That team better have a coach and veteran player that can kick him in the ### and keep Embiid motivated/focused.

3 hours ago, The Kansas Comet said:

The Blazers are just too thin to hang right now.

It would help if the Blazers started Gary Trent.  He's probably the top choice to defend LeBron James, but Stotts isn't matching his minutes with LBJ much.  Also, starting two bigs is playing into what the Lakers want to do with Anthony Davis at the 4.  Probably doesn't matter, but the strategy by Portland makes little sense.

3 hours ago, Desert_Power said:

I was kind of hoping Dame with a resurgent Melo could stick around longer

Resurgent?  Carmelo Anthony can't play defense, gets involved with the refs all the time, and still feels his constant barrage of mid-range jump shots is an effective offensive game plan.  He's just not a winning ballplayer.

Edited by trader jake
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12 hours ago, Deamon said:

Yep, NBA is by far the league that's the hardest to turn around your team without drafting a super star.  If you don't draft a star (Milwaukee, Dallas, Warriors) or have a team where top FA's flock to (Houston, Clippers, Raptors), you're a nobody.  Much easier to turn around a bad team in the other 3 sports.

Top free agents flock to the Raptors?

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Other than those things the argument is sound...

 

I think if anything it's clear that things change very quickly in the NBA.  League is wide open now, lots of stars, lots of movement, lots of teams going from non-contenders to contenders in short duration (< 3 years).  

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1 hour ago, Boston said:

Rockets at well...what star have they signed?

Chris Paul was basically a FA acquisition even though it ended up being a trade. Houston is a well run organization in a state with no income tax; they’ll be on a lot of free agents’ short list. 

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12 minutes ago, thecatch said:

Chris Paul was basically a FA acquisition even though it ended up being a trade. Houston is a well run organization in a state with no income tax; they’ll be on a lot of free agents’ short list. 

fair, but they've also been burned many times when people think that it should be a hot destination.

but i think that the whole idea of a specific town/team being a FA destination is kind of a red herring.  LA probably is close because of the crossovers with the entertainment industry, but it ultimately is a lot of other factors and things change quickly (like wilked mentioned).

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1 minute ago, Long Ball Larry said:

fair, but they've also been burned many times when people think that it should be a hot destination.

The fact that they even get meetings with elite FAs speaks well for them as a destination, even if those guys ultimately go somewhere else (e.g., Bosh).  Most franchises don't even get that opportunity.

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So Elton Brand looks to be retaining his job with more authority. And probably hiring more basketball people under him as opposed to data guys. 
 

Says not looking to trade Joel or Ben, but looking to complement them better.
 

Not sure how though given cap situation. 

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13 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

So Elton Brand looks to be retaining his job with more authority. And probably hiring more basketball people under him as opposed to data guys. 
 

Says not looking to trade Joel or Ben, but looking to complement them better.
 

Not sure how though given cap situation. 

Not sure how you do it without putting assets in to trade a contract like Tobias and or Horford though. Thats gonna be tough 

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Bruce Bowen says Brett Brown is coaching the Sixers still if Joel Embiid showed some leadership

Backstory here is When the team was in SA they had a team meeting. Brown brought in former Spur Bruce Bowen who talked about playing and knowing your role on the team and accountability. 3 times for whatever reason Bowen looked at Joel Embiid and singled him out and said "I'm not scared of you." Some people believed the thing was scripted. When Bowen realized his take to Embiid wasn't working he said he was joking with the Big Man. Some blame Bowen for criticizing Embiid as he had a terrible game in the loss to SA. Some people have said Bowen was out of line where others said Embiid is soft and can't handle constructive criticism. Today Bowen an ESPN Analyst these days was on Get Up. He talked about lack of leadership and accountability on the 76ers. and said if Joel Embiid had showed any sort of leadership and invested in it. 

You are gonna probably hear a lot more of these takes from either side from analyst. Just my hunch but after seeing the support Brett Brown got a few yrs ago I'm expecting more analyst, coaches and former players who know Brown to defend him over the 76ers players. The outpouring support Brown got back then was big including from critics such as Stephan A Smith and others. I do feel bad for Brown in a way. He's a really cool guy. My one co worker is/was neighbors with him during his time here and Ive met him on a few occasions going to my co workers house for parties. Brown showed up to a party before going to coach a game just to give his son a gift and wish him a Happy Birthday. Last I saw of Brown was early in the Season when I went to my co workers house. You could tell he wasn't his usual self. He waived and said hi and asked how everything was but he was definitely not the chippy talkative self he usually was. You could tell the job was really getting to him. I'm sure he'll land on his feet on some team and turn them around with the proper management around him 

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My impression of the talent of Embiid & Simmons is little different than when i first saw them. They are both unicorns who could have each been alltime TopTens. But neither one of em knows what a win share is and that's not completely their fault. My favorite sport has reached a place that, if you're talented enough, you dont have to do anything you dont want to do. You'll still max out at every level, get your shoe contract. Not only did these two singular talents decide to be bigger than their teams but they fought instead of shared the battle over who was better. Embiid is unstoppable if his teammates work hard enough to punish opponents who double and Simmons may be the best passer, rebounder & defender (Stan Van Gundy said he should be 2020 DPOY on TBS the other day) in the game. Neither one of em has a clue how to turn their skills into victory, however, and that situation has devolved to the point where they never will on the same team.

Edited by wikkidpissah
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33 minutes ago, wikkidpissah said:

My impression of the talent of Embiid & Simmons is little different than when i first saw them. They are both unicorns who could have each been alltime TopTens. But neither one of em knows what a win share is and that's not completely their fault. My favorite sport has reached a place that, if you're talented enough, you dont have to do anything you dont want to do. You'll still max out at every level, get your shoe contract. Not only did these two singular talents decide to be bigger than their teams but the fought instead of shared the battle over who was better. Embiid is unstoppable if his teammates work hard enough to punish opponents who double and Simmons may be the est passer, rebounder & defender (Stan Van Gundy said he should be 2020 DPOY on a TBS the other day) in the game. Neither one of em has a clue how to turn their skills into victory, however, and that situation has devolved to the point where they never will on the same team.

They both have huge egos and can't take constructive criticism. I'm friends with former Jet/Bucs/Cardinals TE Anthony Becht. I went to College with his sister and when he came home he had no one to talk football with (Family weren't big fans and friends moved or had kids etc and couldn't hang out) so when he'd comeback from Tampa and also do his Football camp at the local Catholic HS he went too we met. He brought in Vinny Testiverde as well as former players and coaches he knew, teammates or were coached by. One of the big things I learned was it never matters how talented you are because you can always learn something new from someone to get even better. Guys with huge egos make it intolerable to be on a team with.They make the locker room depressing and to always have to answer questions from the media about the circus they bring gets tiresome and aggravating. Yes you need some ego on a team but the guys who are just in it for themselves bring teams down. It eventually starts effecting your game and training too. These guys are human and the mental drain as much as the physical drain can take it's toll especially when you have a guy like that on your squad. If you can't take constructive criticism in your profession you won't reach your potential. Listen to people rather then talking yourself. It's harder when its your supposed team leaders with these issues too. It negatively effects the younger players on the team too. Shows them acting out is ok. 

Unfortunately todays NBA player has way more power and like you said still gets everything they want. Teams andGMs have lost power. They are scared to death if they upset said star player they will lose them and the player and agent would make a scene. Today's players are absolutely babied. I'd hate to see how these guys would react with a Bill Lambieer, MJ, Kobe, Rodman, etc teammate who held them accountable or an old school coach. You think if this was the 80s Lebron and the Cav's would've gotten away with how they treated David Blatt as their coach? No they would've been told to suck it up butter cups. The way the players act today makes it hard to watch this sport. It's why it's refreshing to see a young Player like Doncic and how he acts in the NBA. Such maturity for his age and no ego. He seems to hate being praised too and just brushes it off with "I'm doing what I can to help my team win. That's all that matter."  

Edited by DJackson10
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1 hour ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

So Elton Brand looks to be retaining his job with more authority. And probably hiring more basketball people under him as opposed to data guys. 
 

Says not looking to trade Joel or Ben, but looking to complement them better.
 

Not sure how though given cap situation. 

heard a couple of rumors. One is they are really hoping the amnesty comes when they talk about the salary cap for next year to cut either toby or Al. other thoughts have been a trade for CP3 with Al going. 

it is kind of easy to think about, because the Sixers are super limited in options seeing how they have 2 of the crappiest contracts right now in the NBA

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50 minutes ago, wikkidpissah said:

My impression of the talent of Embiid & Simmons is little different than when i first saw them. They are both unicorns who could have each been alltime TopTens. But neither one of em knows what a win share is and that's not completely their fault. My favorite sport has reached a place that, if you're talented enough, you dont have to do anything you dont want to do. You'll still max out at every level, get your shoe contract. Not only did these two singular talents decide to be bigger than their teams but the fought instead of shared the battle over who was better. Embiid is unstoppable if his teammates work hard enough to punish opponents who double and Simmons may be the est passer, rebounder & defender (Stan Van Gundy said he should be 2020 DPOY on a TBS the other day) in the game. Neither one of em has a clue how to turn their skills into victory, however, and that situation has devolved to the point where they never will on the same team.

what is cray to look at is their development, along with other players on the teams. Sixers did great early in the Process with developing Covington and TJ McConnel and some others. problem is last 3 years or so they have really done zero with development. 

will be interesting to see which coach comes in and what kind of supprt the new coach and revamped front office brings in. I think the potential is still there, just need a good support system around them to continue their development. 

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40 minutes ago, DJackson10 said:

It's why it's refreshing to see a young Player like Doncic and how he acts in the NBA. Such maturity for his age and no ego. He seems to hate being praised too and just brushes it off with "I'm doing what I can to help my team win. That's all that matter."  

i'm sold on Doncic's talent but not yet convinced he's a win-zone guy. There are some indicators - like improving the games of Curry & Finney-Smith - but Luka is as willing to make a stoopit play because his talent allows it as most of the other young talents in the game. Opponents are not going to get worse at defending him, so i'd like to see more of an eye for the best play over his best play.

Edited by wikkidpissah
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20 hours ago, DJackson10 said:

And where did some of these teams draft their stars? This is the highest the warriors have picked in years. Curry fell into their laps. Giannis could've been had by Philly in the top 10 as well as others but went to Mil at 15. Doncic should've been the consensus #1 last year and went 5th.

Players like Giannis come along once an era.  No one saw him going that high, so you could fault all 14 teams for not taking him.  He is the exception, not the example.  No one saw Doncic as the consensus #1... but I guess you did since you're always bang on with your draft picks and should be a GM.  Also, he didn't go 5th but okay.

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1 minute ago, Jayrod said:

Jokic with an absolutely stupid 1st quarter.  8/8 for 21 pts (5 treys)

He's so good when he's on.  I thought the Nuggets would win this series but Jazz just taking it to them.

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7 hours ago, thecatch said:

Chris Paul was basically a FA acquisition even though it ended up being a trade. Houston is a well run organization in a state with no income tax; they’ll be on a lot of free agents’ short list. 

It’s not as easy as it looks. Given the contracts they already have, I don’t see them being able to sign anyone. HOU is already $15M over the cap for next year. They would have to be able to sign the FA and be under the cap AFTER the signing. Their only real option at that point would be to get a team to do a sign and trade. 

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