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1 minute ago, tonydead said:

Thanks for your honesty.  Calling out a group of posters with whom you disagree (which I swear had been discussed in the moderation forum as not allowed) is acceptable.  References to Star Trek and Disney gets a suspension.  Got it thanks!

#freeknowledgedropper   #freeboots11234

I wasn’t aware it wasn’t acceptable. Why wouldn’t it be? 

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1 minute ago, timschochet said:

I wasn’t aware it wasn’t acceptable. Why wouldn’t it be? 

Something along the lines of painting with broad brushes, lumping all supporters of XYZ in a horrible bucket.  The thread is there if you want to go read it.

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1 hour ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Lol actually I'm interested in reading Trump opinions too, but apparently we're enmeshed in a poster disappearance mystery involving all of Tobias, KD and now Boots? Who could be next? Curiouser and curioser... it's like an online Dominican Republic Resort in here.

I agree.  I like to ask questions though to see if I am understanding where they are coming from.  When asked a question I think it's reasonable to expect a legit response with some thought put into it.

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8 minutes ago, Don't Noonan said:

Thanks.  I am sure @Ilov80s walked away with no punishment after telling another poster he sucks.  Seems pretty unexcellent.

I didn’t report him and if someone wants to report me and suspend me, so be it. I stand by what I said. He was being a jerk. I’ve been suspended before for making fun of Irish Catholics (which I am) so I can live with another one at this point. I try to be respectful and polite to people here but at some point I’m just going to be honest with someone who is trolling.

Edited by Ilov80s
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43 minutes ago, tonydead said:

Something along the lines of painting with broad brushes, lumping all supporters of XYZ in a horrible bucket.  The thread is there if you want to go read it.

But see I didn’t do any of that. I didn’t name every Trump supporter. The 4 people I named had all posted within the last 24 hours about how great a President Trump is; I was challenging that assumption. I wasn’t making any generalizations. I don’t see anything wrong with it. 

 

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29 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I agree.  I like to ask questions though to see if I am understanding where they are coming from.  When asked a question I think it's reasonable to expect a legit response with some thought put into it.

I totally agree there. But I guess I've been following this stuff with great interest since 2015-16, I suppose mainly because there appears to be a possible political realignment in this country and I've been stumped by why. But it may just die quickly also and not be a real realignment at all. So what's happening? A few thoughts:

  • News sources. Personally I think this has happened because of manipulation but Trump supporters will tell you they've lost faith in MSM/journalism. The answer here is it literally didn't happen, whatever it is you're claiming happened.
  • Nihilism/cynicism/apathy. - This is the hypocrisy argument. So even if you believe in A, and TrumpGuy believes in A, the fact that you once argued against A in some other situation means that A is now off the table, and the only option is Omega, because either 'let's blow it all up,' 'they're all the same', or something similar. - The answer is here you're just a partisan and don't mean or believe it.
  • Lib Tears - liberals/progressives/Dems are upset and wailing? - Oh yeah bring it on. Is this thing being talked about contrary to everything Republicans and conservatives have ever stood for? So what, bring it on.
  • The Economy Yo. - I think most Trump supporters who advocate this don't really stick around to discuss it. They like what the economy is doing first, so nothing else matters. The why/how doesn't really matter and they're not reading the WSJ back sections.
  • Cult of Personality - All Trump, all day, all the time. Like a football team you root for is the best way to understand it, do or die.
  • Actual past policies - I think somewhere in the background mistakes have been made on economics and foreign policy. This may be obvious. Iraq, the 2008 recession are two keys that come to mind, but also (yes) immigration policies. Some might say trade policies, but a world in which the US has not created the WTO, IMF, NAFTA, etc. is probably a world in which the US is fractured far more than now and leaving 1st world status while some true international baddies lead the way. I kind of think since 1990 this whole concept hasn't been well curated or explained by our leadership. So, there probably is a legitimate policy discussion to be had but it almost never breaks out, it's almost always one of the above

What you're left with is refusal to engage in facts and news, refusal to discuss values, what appears to be trolling but is actually emotional cheerleading, and unbending defense of the leader. I think in the end, this results in: nationalism and populism, by and large.

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2 hours ago, tonydead said:

The thing with tribbles, there are so many of them that you often miss the one post that means something. 

#freeknowledgedropper

#freeboots11234

 

When we are told only to report posts way over the line how did he get suspended for that?😂

 

Sounds fair. 

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4 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

I totally agree there. But I guess I've been following this stuff with great interest since 2015-16, I suppose mainly because there appears to be a possible political realignment in this country and I've been stumped by why. But it may just die quickly also and not be a real realignment at all. So what's happening? A few thoughts:

  • News sources. Personally I think this has happened because of manipulation but Trump supporters will tell you they've lost faith in MSM/journalism. The answer here is it literally didn't happen, whatever it is you're claiming happened.
  • Nihilism/cynicism/apathy. - This is the hypocrisy argument. So even if you believe in A, and TrumpGuy believes in A, the fact that you once argued against A in some other situation means that A is now off the table, and the only option is Omega, because either 'let's blow it all up,' 'they're all the same', or something similar. - The answer is here you're just a partisan and don't mean or believe it.
  • Lib Tears - liberals/progressives/Dems are upset and wailing? - Oh yeah bring it on. Is this thing being talked about contrary to everything Republicans and conservatives have ever stood for? So what, bring it on.
  • The Economy Yo. - I think most Trump supporters who advocate this don't really stick around to discuss it. They like what the economy is doing first, so nothing else matters. The why/how doesn't really matter and they're not reading the WSJ back sections.
  • Cult of Personality - All Trump, all day, all the time. Like a football team you root for is the best way to understand it, do or die.
  • Actual past policies - I think somewhere in the background mistakes have been made on economics and foreign policy. This may be obvious. Iraq, the 2008 recession are two keys that come to mind, but also (yes) immigration policies. Some might say trade policies, but a world in which the US has not created the WTO, IMF, NAFTA, etc. is probably a world in which the US is fractured far more than now and leaving 1st world status while some true international baddies lead the way. I kind of think since 1990 this whole concept hasn't been well curated or explained by our leadership. So, there probably is a legitimate policy discussion to be had but it almost never breaks out, it's almost always one of the above

What you're left with is refusal to engage in facts and news, refusal to discuss values, what appears to be trolling but is actually emotional cheerleading, and unbending defense of the leader. I think in the end, this results in: nationalism and populism, by and large.

As for the economy and Trump's policies.  Basic economics supports the theory that lower taxes and less regulations spurns higher growth.  It is hard for me to believe that someone will beat Trump in 2020 running on increasing your taxes on day 1!  

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Just now, Don't Noonan said:

As for the economy and Trump's policies.  Basic economics supports the theory that lower taxes and less regulations spurns higher growth.  It is hard for me to believe that someone will beat Trump in 2020 running on increasing your taxes on day 1!  

Aren't our taxes increasing each year with Trump's tax plan anyway?

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11 minutes ago, Don't Noonan said:

As for the economy and Trump's policies.  Basic economics supports the theory that lower taxes and less regulations spurns higher growth.  It is hard for me to believe that someone will beat Trump in 2020 running on increasing your taxes on day 1!  

Traditional Republican / conservative economics calls for lower taxes.... and balanced budgets. What we have here are near record setting deficits two years in a row (eta - ie for a normal economic period).

- eta - Btw I agree yes, it's a popular policy, as in the populism that I mentioned. It may very well help in the election, I agree.

Edited by SaintsInDome2006
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16 minutes ago, timschochet said:

But see I didn’t do any of that. I didn’t name every Trump supporter. The 4 people I named had all posted within the last 24 hours about how great a President Trump is; I was challenging that assumption. I wasn’t making any generalizations. I don’t see anything wrong with it. 

 

Christ almighty do you understand differing opinions???????

You aren’t changing anyone’s mind. You’re like the blowhard uncle at the thanksgiving table pontificating about anything and everything . It’s palaver . 

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2 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

Christ almighty do you understand differing opinions???????

You aren’t changing anyone’s mind. You’re like the blowhard uncle at the thanksgiving table pontificating about anything and everything . It’s palaver . 

I thought we were in this sub forum for discussion and debate. You take umbrage at your opinions being challenged? 

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10 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

But that point about the taxes is a good example - you're for it because it's popular and because it's popular it will help get Trump get elected. The point is, what helps get Trump elected is the point, not is it good policy.

Oh I believe it is good policy too.  I do agree with you that the debt will need to be addressed.  The problem is that the solution will be unpopular to the other party whoever proposes it.

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Just now, Don't Noonan said:

No, the majority of Americans received a tax break with the tax plan.

I would say that's pretty accurate for this year but isn't the tax reform set up to where that tax break gets smaller each year and eventually some made be paying in more than they were before the reform?  I thought I saw a graphic that showed that when the new tax plan was announced.  The 1% keep their tax break the same though.

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54 minutes ago, Don't Noonan said:

As for the economy and Trump's policies.  Basic economics supports the theory that lower taxes and less regulations spurns higher growth.  It is hard for me to believe that someone will beat Trump in 2020 running on increasing your taxes on day 1!  

Basic economics does nothing of the sort.

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Great news for President Trump: Mnuchin says the trade deal with China is “90% complete”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/06/26/mnuchin-says-us-china-trade-deal-was-90-percent-complete.html

Those of you who want to see Trump re-elected, this will certainly help if it goes through. Obviously I don’t want to see him win again, but I’m rooting for this anyhow, and my hat will be off to the President if he can make this happen. 

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23 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I would say that's pretty accurate for this year but isn't the tax reform set up to where that tax break gets smaller each year and eventually some made be paying in more than they were before the reform?  I thought I saw a graphic that showed that when the new tax plan was announced.  The 1% keep their tax break the same though.

I think you are correct that the individual tax cuts are removed in 10 years but the corporate tax cuts are permanent.  Corporate tax cuts are not the 1% though.  

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14 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Great news for President Trump: Mnuchin says the trade deal with China is “90% complete”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/06/26/mnuchin-says-us-china-trade-deal-was-90-percent-complete.html

Those of you who want to see Trump re-elected, this will certainly help if it goes through. Obviously I don’t want to see him win again, but I’m rooting for this anyhow, and my hat will be off to the President if he can make this happen. 

This is huge for Trump if it happens.  The stock market will set new records and people vote with their pocket books.  It will be a win.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Gopher State said:

This is huge for Trump if it happens.  The stock market will set new records and people vote with their pocket books.  It will be a win.

 

 

I think I remember reading that something like 80% of Americans own just 8% of the stock market.  are those 80% going to line up for Trump because the market is doing well (while running trillion dollar deficits, btw)?  some of them will but it won't have anything to do with their pocket books

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21 minutes ago, Gopher State said:

This is huge for Trump if it happens.  The stock market will set new records and people vote with their pocket books.  It will be a win.

 

Maybe. maybe not. What you would expect to happen usually doesn't. The market has not jumped at all after these announcements. Usually it rockets immediately.

40% of americans believe a recession has already begun.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/40-of-americans-say-the-next-recession-is-already-here-or-on-the-horizon-2019-06-26

I am not one of them but am monitoring that closely. The Russell 2000 is in correction territory as is the Dow transports and that is a red flag.

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17 minutes ago, lod001 said:

Maybe. maybe not. What you would expect to happen usually doesn't. The market has not jumped at all after these announcements. Usually it rockets immediately.

40% of americans believe a recession has already begun.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/40-of-americans-say-the-next-recession-is-already-here-or-on-the-horizon-2019-06-26

I am not one of them but am monitoring that closely. The Russell 2000 is in correction territory as is the Dow transports and that is a red flag.

I don't care about how the market reacts, especially short term. A trade deal with China would be a wonderful thing for us long term. TPP would have been much better IMO, but this will do. If we get it, that is. 

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1 hour ago, Gopher State said:

This is huge for Trump if it happens.  The stock market will set new records and people vote with their pocket books.  It will be a win.

 

 

Is this accurate or just Tim setting up “It’s a done deal” so if it doesn’t come together he can start a new bash Trump thread?:lmao:

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3 minutes ago, GoBirds said:

Is this accurate or just Tim setting up “It’s a done deal” so if it doesn’t come together he can start a new bash Trump thread?:lmao:

Its not a done deal. In fact, the Secretary of Agriculture is skeptical, so who knows? Mnuchin says it's 90% done.

This is not something I want to bash Trump for. Trust me on this. I really really REALLY want him to win on this.

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2 hours ago, Don't Noonan said:

Oh I believe it is good policy too.  I do agree with you that the debt will need to be addressed.  The problem is that the solution will be unpopular to the other party whoever proposes it.

Exactly.  It does need to be addressed.  Each side if they were to truly address it would come at it from an opposite view that would be intolerable to the other side.  Therefore the can is continually kicked down the road.  At some point, and maybe we are there or nearing that point, it will no longer be a matter of either higher taxes or cutting entitlements being enough.  When I opposed President Obama, it wasn't because he was "from Kenya" or because of the color of his skin.  I thought adding a new entitlement program would do long term damage to the country.  I still feel that way.  It's awfully hard to even cut an entitlement program, take Social Security for example, much less totally do away with it.  I would prefer lower taxes and fewer entitlements, but the longer we as a country and not just individual parties kick the can down the road the harder and more painful the eventual fix will become.

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My wife just texted me "Taco Tuesday!  Tacos for the debate tonight, Build the Wall!, Build the Wall!".  (she's mostly joking, although she did vote for Trump)

 

I don't have the heart to tell her that it's a democratic debate.......or that it's Wednesday.

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1 minute ago, tonydead said:

My wife just texted me "Taco Tuesday!  Tacos for the debate tonight, Build the Wall!, Build the Wall!".  (she's mostly joking, although she did vote for Trump)

 

I don't have the heart to tell her that it's a democratic debate.......or that it's Wednesday.

Tell her that if we get a Democrat next time there will be a taco truck on every corner. 

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3 minutes ago, tonydead said:

My wife just texted me "Taco Tuesday!  Tacos for the debate tonight, Build the Wall!, Build the Wall!".  (she's mostly joking, although she did vote for Trump)

 

I don't have the heart to tell her that it's a democratic debate.......or that it's Wednesday.

Damnit, man, get that woman some tacos.

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On 6/25/2019 at 10:09 AM, tonydead said:

This whole forum is a joke and complete waste of time.  But, I'm sitting in protest until @knowledge dropper comes back.  Anyone that gets banned because he referred to the libs as being one of the most lovable science fiction creatures of all times is unacceptable.   We have to stand up to this sort of PC crap.

I got 3 days in the hole for the tribbles reference.  I need to be better. Creating the one pro-Trump thread has made me a target and I have to accept it.  

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1 hour ago, knowledge dropper said:

I got 3 days in the hole for the tribbles reference.  I need to be better. Creating the one pro-Trump thread has made me a target and I have to accept it.  

Yep, plenty of :fishing:going on just have to ingnore them as threads like this aren’t treated the same as the Trump ranting threads. 

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10 hours ago, zoonation said:

It is pretty bad.  

Biden sitting back with his feet up.   

I’m hearing this bantered around quite a bit this morning and think it’s the opposite. As terrible as the other Democrat candidates are, half the people on that stage would have run circles around Biden.  The guy hasn’t had an original thought in 30 years and has a proven track record of being terrible at running for President. If I were a Biden guy I would be scared to death after what I saw last night. 

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1 hour ago, Max Power said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/politics/who-spoke-most-at-democratic-debate-june/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.303dbcf7e3ca

Last night was underwhelming.  This format isn't doing anyone any favors.  Trump's tweets are getting as much airtime today as any candidate.

Trump was the big winner last night.

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  • knowledge dropper changed the title to TRUMP TO INFINITY AND BEYOND HQ - The Great and Positive Place

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