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1 hour ago, boots11234 said:

As much as Nancy’s move wasn’t classy far worse has happened in that chamber. Back in the day before the civil war one rep beat another bloody in the head with his cane. I believe that rep never returned. Crazier things have happened there trust me. 

It’s true that was pre Civil War, and it’s partly why this country relies on norms and traditions so strongly. Hopefully we can agree they need to be defended at every turn.

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1 minute ago, Widbil83 said:

This poor man, Pelosi is just shameful. 😥

State of The Union guest whose brother was murdered by an illegal in California: Nancy Pelosi 'ripped our hearts out' with her actions.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/state-of-the-union-guest-jody-jones-reflects-on-his-brothers-honor-nancy-pelosi-message

AOC:  As the face of the Democrat Party, I am going to show my disdain for the USA by going home to pout. 
 

Pelosi:  Hold my gin.  

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9 minutes ago, Widbil83 said:

This poor man, Pelosi is just shameful. 😥

State of The Union guest whose brother was murdered by an illegal in California: Nancy Pelosi 'ripped our hearts out' with her actions.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/state-of-the-union-guest-jody-jones-reflects-on-his-brothers-honor-nancy-pelosi-message

Her ripping that speech up also means she wants a depression. And she hates puppies. And apple pie. 🤣

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52 minutes ago, KPD said:

How about the Republican yelling "You lie" at Obama during a SOTU address?

Dude a rodeo clown lost his job for wearing an Obama mask (one of many presidents he used). What would the reaction have been if John Boehner shredded Obama’s SOTU speech? 

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8 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

Her ripping that speech up also means she wants a depression. And she hates puppies. And apple pie. 🤣

Why do you post in this thread?  Seriously.  This is the Great Place.  There are about 203 different trump bashing threads.  I get your mad that he's president, that the economy is doing great, that minorities are working in record numbers, that he will be re-elected, I get you dont like all of that but please take it someplace else.

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2 minutes ago, Widbil83 said:

Dude a rodeo clown lost his job for wearing an Obama mask (one of many presidents he used). What would the reaction have been if John Boehner shredded Obama’s SOTU speech? 

Can you imagine if Boehner did that???  He would have had to resign.  No question.

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2 minutes ago, boots11234 said:

Why do you post in this thread?  Seriously.  This is the Great Place.  There are about 203 different trump bashing threads.  I get your mad that he's president, that the economy is doing great, that minorities are working in record numbers, that he will be re-elected, I get you dont like all of that but please take it someplace else.

Exactly.

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4 minutes ago, boots11234 said:

Why do you post in this thread?  Seriously.  This is the Great Place.  There are about 203 different trump bashing threads.  I get your mad that he's president, that the economy is doing great, that minorities are working in record numbers, that he will be re-elected, I get you dont like all of that but please take it someplace else.

I read threads that I have posted in before. I am not aware of which particular thread I am  when I'm reading. When someone makes a post implying that Pelosi ripping up the speech indicates that she doesn't care about military families, then I'm going to comment. Everyone knows that pelosi ripped that up because Trump snubbed her handshake attempt plus told countless lies. The right can't argue that so they have to twist it to make it seem like she hates injured war vets. That will get a reply every time. 

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6 minutes ago, boots11234 said:

Can you imagine if Boehner did that???  He would have had to resign.  No question.

If you want to play that game, can you imagine Obama calling someone Nervous Nancy? Or refusing to shake someones hand? You get the respect you give out. 

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2 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

If you want to play that game, can you imagine Obama calling someone Nervous Nancy? Or refusing to shake someones hand? You get the respect you give out. 

Frankly it looked to me as if he didn’t see it. It was so quick and he was already turning. 

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1 minute ago, The General said:

We are in a different time. Nothing matters any more.

Elect a reality show prez, you get a reality show.

Lol!  So Nancy’s justified because “Trump bad.”

 

Edited by jm192
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13 minutes ago, boots11234 said:

Can you imagine if Boehner did that???  He would have had to resign.  No question.

I think that’s a fair point, he probably would have. Ultimately his resignation occurred when the far right wing led by the current minority leader forced him out in late 2015. Same thing happened to his successor.

Edited by SaintsInDome2006
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Just now, SaintsInDome2006 said:

I think that’s a fair point, he probably would have. Ultimately his resignation occurred when the far right wing led by the current minority leader forced him out in late 2015.

And look at how great the country is doing now. 

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Just now, jm192 said:

Lol!  So Nancy’s justified because “Trump bad.”

Who said justified?

Someone made a point about what if so and so did this in the past. A prez won that was caught paying off a porn star. He talked about his dong during a debate, he mocked a POW, etc. That’s kind of unusual when compared to the past, no?

Those days are gone. Maybe they’ll come back who knows.

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4 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

I read threads that I have posted in before. I am not aware of which particular thread I am  when I'm reading. When someone makes a post implying that Pelosi ripping up the speech indicates that she doesn't care about military families, then I'm going to comment. Everyone knows that pelosi ripped that up because Trump snubbed her handshake attempt plus told countless lies. The right can't argue that so they have to twist it to make it seem like she hates injured war vets. That will get a reply every time. 

Everyone knows Trump didn't shake her hand because she snubbed him on his introduction. Pelosi came out petty and remained petty all night.  

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Just now, The General said:

Who said justified?

Someone made a point about what if so and so did this in the past. A prez won that was caught paying off a porn star. He talked about his dong during a debate, he mocked a POW, etc. That’s kind of unusual when compared to the past, no?

Those days are gone. Maybe they’ll come back who knows.

Me:  Don Lemon did this.  Or Pelosi did that

Dems:  here’s something Trump did.

Literally not even capable of discussing the issue at hand, just go right back to your hate for the President.

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5 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Are you arguing violating norms/traditions is a positive? Or fluid, depending on the goals sought?

I'd have to say it depends on the tradition. Increasingly traditions are becoming an eye of the beholder thing.  

Some I'll hold firm with until I die, others I can move on from as society evolves.   

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8 minutes ago, jm192 said:

Me:  Don Lemon did this.  Or Pelosi did that

Dems:  here’s something Trump did.

Literally not even capable of discussing the issue at hand, just go right back to your hate for the President.

I was discussing the issue at hand - the state of current politics.

Someone said “what if Boehner did this”. I said we are in different times.

You jumped in with all this other stuff. 

 

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1 hour ago, boots11234 said:

As much as Nancy’s move wasn’t classy far worse has happened in that chamber. Back in the day before the civil war one rep beat another bloody in the head with his cane. I believe that rep never returned. Crazier things have happened there trust me. 

It’s an important point that Doris Kearns Goodwin has made many times: we are nowhere near as divisive with each other as we’ve been in the past. 

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8 minutes ago, Max Power said:

I'd have to say it depends on the tradition. Increasingly traditions are becoming an eye of the beholder thing.  

Some I'll hold firm with until I die, others I can move on from as society evolves.   

Well see that's rub. Then anything is fair game, including respecting the office, because, yaknow, it "depends." And fwiw I think what Pelosi did was wrong as it disrespects not just the office of the President, but also her own office and Congress itself. - I do think though it's this cheering of breaking democratic norms (not saying you are) which is the problem. Even here I sense people being more stimulated by the potential energizing effect on Trump supporters rather than any real disturbance about the dignity of the offices of POTUS & SOTH.

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5 minutes ago, timschochet said:

It’s an important point that Doris Kearns Goodwin has made many times: we are nowhere near as divisive with each other as we’ve been in the past. 

Wow..I agree with Tim.  This is exactly the point I was making.  Still classless on Nancy's part but this type of behavior has been much much worse to the point of violence.  That can also be said about the name calling and mocking Trump does.  The insults slung back in the day were worse...and also pretty funny.

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3 minutes ago, boots11234 said:

I'm saying country is doing much better without him.

I understand that. And I'm saying the GOP - against tradition - has overthrown two straight of their own Speakers and forced them to resign because they did not meet the required ideological dogmatism of the current Party. You mentioned earlier that Boehner would have been forced for violating traditions, but that's what's happened here, and it was the Meadows/McCarthy/Jordan faction that did it.  Democrats didn't force their resignation, the Freedom Caucus did.

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2 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

I understand that. And I'm saying the GOP - against tradition - has overthrown two straight of their own Speakers and forced them to resign because they did not meeting the ideological dogmatism of the current Party. You mentioned earlier that Boehner would have been forced for violating traditions, but that's what's happened here, and it was the Meadows/McCarthy/Jordan faction that did it.  Democrats didn't force their resignation, the Freedom Caucus did.

I did not say forced.  Please re-read.  I think the heat from the other side and the public would have required him to resign.  

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Just now, Weebs210 said:

Can you imagine being so salty that you lost you have to act like a child. Ripping up speeches like a little kid throwing a tantrum lol.

The hostility is up a notch with the Dems and in here after Iowa and the great speech last night met with the childish tantrum. They are seeing what lies ahead and it’s all their fault. 

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1 minute ago, GoBirds said:

The hostility is up a notch with the Dems and in here after Iowa and the great speech last night met with the childish tantrum. They are seeing what lies ahead and it’s all their fault. 

You reap what you sow. All their lying and fake investigations are catching up to them. 

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4 minutes ago, Weebs210 said:

You reap what you sow. All their lying and fake investigations are catching up to them. 

It's all they've done, who would vote for that? What's their message, Trump is horrible yet our monthly crises never stick for some reason? I don't get it and with the hostility ramping up not sure how much longer this can go. 

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17 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Well see that's rub. Then anything is fair game, including respecting the office, because, yaknow, it "depends." And fwiw I think what Pelosi did was wrong as it disrespects not just the office of the President, but also her own office and Congress itself. - I do think though it's this cheering of breaking democratic norms (not saying you are) which is the problem. Even here I sense people being more stimulated by the potential energizing effect on Trump supporters rather than any real disturbance about the dignity of the offices of POTUS & SOTH.

I was referring to traditions as a whole in every aspect of America. There is nothing "wrong" with breaking democratic norms either.  I mean look at all the amendments to the constitution many of those broke the democratic norms at the time the constitution was written.  I think we just have to adjust to the times.  Obviously it's not progress to watch our leaders act childish.

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1 hour ago, Max Power said:

Everyone knows Trump didn't shake her hand because she snubbed him on his introduction. Pelosi came out petty and remained petty all night.  

So the president who's spent his entire term being petty and giving people childish nicknames got his feathers ruffled by an 80 year old woman. Not a good look. 

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46 minutes ago, Weebs210 said:

Can you imagine being so salty that you lost you have to act like a child. Ripping up speeches like a little kid throwing a tantrum lol.

She didn't lose. She leads the Congress. He was impeached. She won. Trump lost. 

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36 minutes ago, Max Power said:

I was referring to traditions as a whole in every aspect of America. There is nothing "wrong" with breaking democratic norms either.  I mean look at all the amendments to the constitution many of those broke the democratic norms at the time the constitution was written.  I think we just have to adjust to the times.  Obviously it's not progress to watch our leaders act childish.

Ok I'll just say that respect for the office of the President, the office of the Speaker, and Congress is one such norm. I personally do think democratic (small d) norms should always be defended. That's the reason I think what Pelosi did was wrong or harmful.

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52 minutes ago, boots11234 said:

Wow..I agree with Tim.  This is exactly the point I was making.  Still classless on Nancy's part but this type of behavior has been much much worse to the point of violence.  That can also be said about the name calling and mocking Trump does.  The insults slung back in the day were worse...and also pretty funny.

I was right there in lockstep with you until the pretty funny part.  While I completely understand where you coming from with that statement (being lighthearted and finding the humor in things) but I honestly think it is sets very bad examples and can be dangerous.  These people are world leaders, literally, and their actions should reflect that.  When they act immature and petty, as Pelosi did last night and Trump does with his tweets and insults, it sets an example that that type of behavior is acceptable. I know this and worse has gone on for ages but the level of exposure was far more contained then it is now. When Pelosi does what she does the entire world sees it now, that wasn’t the case not that long ago.  

Besides policy one of the most important jobs of our world leaders is to set examples, we are doing an extremely poor job of this right now.  

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13 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

So the president who's spent his entire term being petty and giving people childish nicknames got his feathers ruffled by an 80 year old woman. Not a good look. 

 I agree it wasn’t a good luck for someone.

And commenting on it does not equate to having your feathers ruffled. You guys pretend that if the president doesn’t just ignore something, he’s bothered by it. He simply pointing out Pelosi’s childish behavior. And that simply politics.

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2 hours ago, JuniorNB said:

She didn't lose. She leads the Congress. He was impeached. She won. Trump lost. 

After the Senate votes to acquit him, do you still feel that he has lost? What about if he wins in November? You’re carrying around that sham impeachment like a participation trophy.

Edited by jm192
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Van Jones with some actual analysis.  Dems still wont wake up to the black vote swing.   

Quote

VAN JONES: I think the last 24 hours have been a big wake up call for Democrats. That's what I think. The Iowa caucus was a debacle. And this was a very strong speech. And it shows what he thinks he needs to do to win. I think I should be very clinical about this. You're exactly right. He knows he's got to give a lot of red meat to his base, and he gave it. Religious liberty, abortion, all of it, the military, et cetera.

But he's doing something else. And it has to do with how he's going to manage race in this thing and there seems to be a tradeoff between the Latinos and the African-Americans, that's what you see. he went hard on the sanctuary city stuff. That is very, very disturbing. It turns out sanctuary cities are safer than non-sanctuary cities. The Cato Institute, which is libertarian, have come out and said immigrants are committing less crime. So, for some reason he thinks that doubling down on the anti-immigrant piece is a big part of this thing.

At the same time, warning the Democrats. What he was saying to African-Americans can be effective. You may not like it but he mentioned HBCUs, black colleges have been struggling for a long time, a bunch of them have gone under, he threw a lifeline to them in real life in his budget. He talked about that. He talked about criminal justice reform. He talked about opportunity zones...

The thing about it is, and we've got to wake up, folks, there's a whole bubble thing that goes on, he said s-hole nations, therefore all black people are going to hate him forever. That ain't necessarily so. I think what you're going to see him do, you may not like my rhetoric, but look at my results and my record to black people, if he narrow casts that, it's going to be effective. Which means, as we move through this primary process, we've got to pay a lot more attention both to what's going on with the Latino vote. Are we going to get a benefit in terms of having them respond and with the black vote. It it going to be a split off, especially for black male voters? We've got to be clinical about this stuff. We get so emotional about it. That was a warning to us. That was a warning shot across the bow to us Democrats that he's going after enough black votes to cause us problems. It's not just suburban votes, he's going after black votes.

 

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Quote

 

Private payrolls soar in January, the best monthly gain in nearly 5 years

Key Points

Private payrolls rose by 291,000 in January, the best month since May 2015, according to ADP and Moody’s Analytics.

The report was nearly twice the expected gains.

ADP: January payrolls increased by 291,000, vs 150,000 expected

The jobs market kicked off 2020 in grand fashion, adding 291,000 in private payrolls for the best monthly gain since May 2015, according to a report Wednesday from ADP and Moody’s Analytics.

That was well above the 150,000 estimate from economists surveyed by Dow Jones and more evidence that the U.S. still is a good distance from full employment even with the jobless rate at its lowest point in more than 50 years. The total also was a sharp gain from the 199,000 in December, which was revised down 3,000 from the initial count.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/05/adp-moodys-private-payrolls-january-2019.html

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Max Power said:

Tim admitting the Dems are a mess.  The dam has broken fellas.  

The best is yet to come...

Tim is a recent convert to the Democratic Party and even now as a registered Democrat he is quite often out of step with other Democrats on this forum (and those I know outside of it). As I recall, he had a thread in 2018 with a title up for six months that said that for the November 2018 election "The Democrats have blown this" which could hardly be called prescient.

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