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TRUMP TO INFINITY AND BEYOND HQ - The Great and Positive Place (10 Viewers)

So a qualifier here first, this is honestly not a fishing or gotcha attempt.  It is 100% an attempt to understand how Trump supporters rationalize or agree with the apparent dichotomy of the behavior.  I haven’t spent a ton of time researching the issue as a whole so I’m really just trying to understand the positions. 

What are your thoughts on Trump voting by mail himself but as of today is threatening to withhold aid to Michigan for sending out absentee vote by mail applications?  TIA

 
So a qualifier here first, this is honestly not a fishing or gotcha attempt.  It is 100% an attempt to understand how Trump supporters rationalize or agree with the apparent dichotomy of the behavior.  I haven’t spent a ton of time researching the issue as a whole so I’m really just trying to understand the positions. 

What are your thoughts on Trump voting by mail himself but as of today is threatening to withhold aid to Michigan for sending out absentee vote by mail applications?  TIA
He has better things to do than stand in line to vote. If people want to vote by mail, send in a request for a ballot.  Voting is easy as is. Seems like a Yuge waste of money.  

 
He has better things to do than stand in line to vote. If people want to vote by mail, send in a request for a ballot.  Voting is easy as is. Seems like a Yuge waste of money.  
I completely agree with the first sentence.  But your next 2 seem at odds (or I’m just not understanding which could be the case). The request for a ballot is voting by mail right?   Isn’t that what Michigan just issued?  And if not and we remove the voting my mail doesn’t that force him to stand in line?   Thanks. 

 
I completely agree with the first sentence.  But your next 2 seem at odds (or I’m just not understanding which could be the case). The request for a ballot is voting by mail right?   Isn’t that what Michigan just issued?  And if not and we remove the voting my mail doesn’t that force him to stand in line?   Thanks. 
We have had absentee ballots forever as voluntary if you can’t make it to the polls.  Why spend all that money to force-feed ballots.  The government has bad addresses and names for a large percentage.  Many will come back return mail.  That’s wasted money. People can stand in line at grocery or choose to get delivery or parking lot pickup.  

 
I completely agree with the first sentence.  But your next 2 seem at odds (or I’m just not understanding which could be the case). The request for a ballot is voting by mail right?   Isn’t that what Michigan just issued?  And if not and we remove the voting my mail doesn’t that force him to stand in line?   Thanks. 
Yes, and my understanding is that sending out applications to vote absentee is legal under Michigan law, despite what POTUS said in his tweet.

 
We have had absentee ballots forever as voluntary if you can’t make it to the polls.  Why spend all that money to force-feed ballots.  The government has bad addresses and names for a large percentage.  Many will come back return mail.  That’s wasted money. People can stand in line at grocery or choose to get delivery or parking lot pickup.  
Ok. Make sense.  So are you for mail in or not?   

 
Rick Scott and Marco Rubio could easily set Trump straight on absentee ballots. We have a long history of voting by absentee ballots and the GOP in Florida has been good, maybe better then the Dems, at getting their folks to use absentee ballots, such as conservative older white non-condo dwellers. Many "liberal" condo dwellers can walk or catch a bus to vote in person.

Scott even extended early voting and made voting by mail easier in the aftermath of hurricane Michael.

https://www.politico.com/states/florida/story/2018/10/18/scott-emergency-order-expands-voting-opportunities-doesnt-delay-election-655890

 
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Rick Scott and Marco Rubio could easily set Trump straight on absentee ballots. We have a long history of voting by absentee ballots and the GOP in Florida has been good, maybe better then the Dems, at getting their folks to use absentee ballots, such as conservative older white non-condo dwellers. Many "liberal" condo dwellers can walk or catch a bus to vote in person.

Scott even extended early voting and made voting by mail easier in the aftermath of hurricane Michael.

https://www.politico.com/states/florida/story/2018/10/18/scott-emergency-order-expands-voting-opportunities-doesnt-delay-election-655890
Does anyone seriously think they will do that? Rubio supported Trump after ridiculing him repeatedly by calling him "Little Marco".

 
Here is a trip down memory lane gb. I’m sure Democrats are trying to scrub this Daily show clip-

 

Jon Stewart in 2015 on Joe Biden:  "It's apparently a Senate rite of passage that you're not officially sworn in until Delaware Joe has felt up one female member of your immediate family."

https://twitter.com/steveguest/status/1262028324991352832?s=21
According to twitter touching a little girl's chest was just "taken out of context".  :oldunsure:

 
There was a great NYT piece posted here a while back I can’t find where the guy caught hell from his liberal readers for an article like this (he was right of course). I’m sure this FiveThirtyEight guy will catch the same.
 

Basically the Democrats don’t have enough angry White people left in the party to win this election. The minority voters aren’t nearly as angry as the white liberals. They are more motivated in voting for an inspiring candidate, not a 78yo tomato can like Joe Biden.

One dominating response to Donald Trump’s presidency has been anger.

Trump has stoked outrage among his supporters, who have echoed his rhetoric and fury, and his detractors, who have launched anti-Trump resistance protests and helped recruit new congressional candidates in 2018. It has also set the mood for the 2020 election. There’s only one problem for Democrats looking to replicate Barack Obama’s multiracial coalition: The voters most energized by anger are white.

According to the book “The Anger Gap” by political scientist Davin Phoenix, white Americans — both Democrats and Republicans — are a lot more likely to be motivated by anger than black Americans and, to a lesser extent, Latino and Asian Americans. White Americans, Phoenix finds, express more anger about politics in public opinion polls, and they’re also more likely to turn out to vote because they are angry. Since 1980, he finds, black Democrats have been seven points less likely to report feeling angry about the Republican presidential candidate than white Democrats, according to data from the American National Election Studies.

“The political power leveraged from being mad as hell is largely reserved only for white Americans,” he writes.

Many of the underlying reasons, Phoenix argues, are systemic. Simply put, nonwhite voters have far fewer expectations of the political system working for them. Instead, Phoenix found nonwhite voters are more likely to be motivated to vote if they feel pride or hope — as they did in 2008 due to Obama’s historic presidential nomination.

Expressing anger is also difficult for nonwhite voters to navigate politically — especially black voters. There is the “potential stigma that comes from the label of being an angry black woman or an angry black man,” Phoenix told me. White Democrats and Republicans, in contrast, haven’t been afraid to publicly display their polarized opinions in the Trump era — on protest signs and in online comments and polls.

Increased anger isn’t a new phenomenon, but it is a rising one. Political scientist Steven Webster argues in his book, “American Rage,” that this current moment of partisan rancor is the culmination of a long pattern of increased anger in American politics. Webster finds that politicians in both parties and those who appear on partisan cable news channels increasingly use angry rhetoric, especially in election years, fueling the fire. Public anger, in turn, fuels negative impressions of the other party and declining trust in government.

But if 2020 is an election driven primarily by anger, that might backfire on Democrats. Take the 2016 election. One reason former Sen. Hillary Clinton was less successful in mobilizing Obama’s base was because her focus on Trump’s bigoted comments attracted some who shared her views but did not resonate with nonwhite voters. “The Clinton campaign bet big on the strategy of highlighting the racist and xenophobic undertones of the Trump campaign,” Phoenix writes, “but its ‘basket of deplorables’ messaging appeared to engender more of a rise from Trump supporters falling under this label than people of color feeling targeted. … [It was] a severe miscalculation of the way people of color respond to political threats.”

Former Vice President Joe Biden faces enormous pressure to turn out nonwhite voters in 2020, but if 2016 is any indication, liberal policy positions alone won’t be enough. Because like the broader anti-Trump resistance movement, the leftward movement of the Democratic Party has been most pronounced among white voters. Even on issues of race, nonwhite voters are no longer significantly more liberal than white Democrats. And research finds that many African American voters identify as conservative despite their strong collective identification with the Democratic Party.

It’s true that black voters overwhelmingly vote Democratic — 88 percent in 2016 — but Biden shouldn’t take that support for granted. That was down from 94 percent in 2012, and there is growing evidence that those who don’t vote regularly are less likely to support Democrats. And some early polls show Biden is already lagging behind Clinton in support among nonwhite voters.

Black voters formed the bedrock of Biden’s victory in the Democratic primaries, but Phoenix does not see that necessarily translating into motivation to vote in the general election. He argues that robust support for Biden in the primaries spoke more to black voters’ skepticism that the broader electorate would support a less conventional candidate against Trump in the general election than their enthusiasm for Biden.

But it is possible for Biden to make gains. In the book “Steadfast Democrats,” political scientists and FiveThirtyEight contributors Ismail White and Chryl Laird found that one reason black voters are so loyal to the Democratic Party is because of the social pressure they face from other black voters. So if Biden is able to successfully energize key leaders in the black community — as he did in South Carolina in the primary — that could help him turn out African American voters in November. It’s also possible that his role as Obama’s former vice president could carry additional weight.

“If you want blacks to support you, you have to get the people within their social networks to help mobilize them in terms of helping to ensure a high turnout,” said White. Unfortunately, thanks to the coronavirus pandemic, that’s hard advice for Biden’s currently homebound campaign to heed at the moment. But he will need to keep it in mind. He cannot count on anger at Trump to be motivation enough for voters who aren’t white.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-democrats-cant-rely-on-voter-anger-this-november/

 
Folks in here seem very dismissive of Biden despite the fact that it’s a coin flip election.

i also can’t believe that Joe F’ing Biden is somehow the last one standing but he’s in the thick of it electorally.

 
Folks in here seem very dismissive of Biden despite the fact that it’s a coin flip election.

i also can’t believe that Joe F’ing Biden is somehow the last one standing but he’s in the thick of it electorally.
Think back to the bodies crammed on the stage for the first Dem debate and even before that and yet the bolded is true. Even the lady that looked like a flight attendant brought more to the table. It’s such a weak train of thought to push old oblivious Joe up there....but he was Obama’s VP so he’ll surely bring in those votes.  :lmao:

 
Folks in here seem very dismissive of Biden despite the fact that it’s a coin flip election.

i also can’t believe that Joe F’ing Biden is somehow the last one standing but he’s in the thick of it electorally.
We know Joe Biden. The only reason he’s here is because the DNC pulled a red wedding before Super Tuesday on Bernie. Biden was a complete disaster 95% of the campaign and was a complete disaster the other 3 times he ran. 
 

Anybody who thinks things will be fine when they pull him out of the hole he’s been hiding in for three months are crazy. He has a ton of questions he needs to answer for he’s gotten a pass on. His new leaked Ukraine corrupt phone call, Tara Reade, his China corruption, Unmasking Flynn. We aren’t even getting into his 50 year record of flip flops or obvious diminished mental capacity question he will get.

 
Widbil83 said:
We know Joe Biden. The only reason he’s here is because the DNC pulled a red wedding before Super Tuesday on Bernie. Biden was a complete disaster 95% of the campaign and was a complete disaster the other 3 times he ran. 
 

Anybody who thinks things will be fine when they pull him out of the hole he’s been hiding in for three months are crazy. He has a ton of questions he needs to answer for he’s gotten a pass on. His new leaked Ukraine corrupt phone call, Tara Reade, his China corruption, Unmasking Flynn. We aren’t even getting into his 50 year record of flip flops or obvious diminished mental capacity question he will get.
Dems know that Biden doesn't motivate people to go vote for him.  It's not enough to say you would vote for Biden, you actually have to get up and do it.  Trump supporters are very motivated. 

 
Dems know that Biden doesn't motivate people to go vote for him.  It's not enough to say you would vote for Biden, you actually have to get up and do it.  Trump supporters are very motivated. 
Polls suggest the opposite, actually. 
 

Yesterday President Trump was asked if he could go back would he handle the crisis any differently. His response was “not a thing”. I think this is the main reason he’s getting crushed in the polls. 

 
Polls suggest the opposite, actually. 
 

Yesterday President Trump was asked if he could go back would he handle the crisis any differently. His response was “not a thing”. I think this is the main reason he’s getting crushed in the polls. 
You have a poll that suggests people are more motivated to vote for Joe Biden?

 
Polls suggest the opposite, actually. 
 

Yesterday President Trump was asked if he could go back would he handle the crisis any differently. His response was “not a thing”. I think this is the main reason he’s getting crushed in the polls. 
Which enthusiasm poll are you using?  The one I saw reported this:

On March 24, 2020 here were the enthusiasm results.

Trump supporters: 53% very, 32% somewhat, 14% not at all

Buden supporters: 24% very, 49% somewhat, 26% not at all

To compare Biden to Hillary was at 32% very.  

We'll see in the next couple months how the enthusiasm changes based on the coronavirus.  If the recovery looks like it's going in the right direction, Trump should have some good enthusiasm results.

 
Which enthusiasm poll are you using?  The one I saw reported this:

On March 24, 2020 here were the enthusiasm results.

Trump supporters: 53% very, 32% somewhat, 14% not at all

Buden supporters: 24% very, 49% somewhat, 26% not at all

To compare Biden to Hillary was at 32% very.  

We'll see in the next couple months how the enthusiasm changes based on the coronavirus.  If the recovery looks like it's going in the right direction, Trump should have some good enthusiasm results.
I doubt it. Even if the recovery goes great (and I am sure hoping it does) it won’t change anyone’s opinion about Trump’s handling of it. He’s already lost that battle permanently. 
 

I honestly think he’s done, @Snotbubbles. Theoretically things could change but I’m not sure how. 

 
Tim ONLY reports and listens to polls that agree with his political leanings
I have no idea why you constantly spread lies about me but that is exactly what you’re doing. Most of the time polls disagree with my political leadings and I ALWAYS post them when that happens. Unlike you, I believe in the science of polling, it is very accurate, and I acknowledge that many of my own beliefs are very unpopular. 

 
These new Biden tapes and Ukraine's press conference on corruption won't be good for gropey Joe. 

Hopefully our media picks up the story soon. 

 
I honestly wish Trump’s numbers were much better right now. I wish he was clearly ahead in the polls. 
Because if that were true it would mean that we were doing well with regard to the crisis. That’s a trade I’d always be willing to make. 

 
You said polls suggested that.  So no polls?
I posted it. Biden has an 11 point lead overall, and a much bigger lead on specific issues like healthcare. I think that indicates actual greater enthusiasm for Biden. I also think that as it becomes clearer to Trump supporters that his chances are fading their enthusiasm will wane. That’s my interpretation of the polling, and IMO it’s a far more significant indication of actual enthusiasm than the question offered by pollsters of “are you enthusiastic?” But you’re welcome to disagree. 

 
I’m suggesting that Biden doesn’t get that big a lead without a drop of enthusiasm from Trump voters no matter what they say. 
So you’re saying that President Trump is actually losing voter enthusiasm? Ok, but I’ve never seen that in polls. Also never seen Biden’s enthusiasm gap come anywhere close to President Trumps. 

 

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