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TRUMP TO INFINITY AND BEYOND HQ - The Great and Positive Place (18 Viewers)

Opie said:
Only half of the country would even listen.....and he'd be ridiculed by the MSM no matter what he said. He's (and everyone else) has already said what happened to George Floyd was wrong. He's already called for swift justice for the ex-officer. He's already called for peace. Who listened and who keeps stoking the flames?
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He spoke before a presser on the Nasa launch. I posted the comments further up. I don't think a mid-day statement slipped into another event - and one with very mixed, muddled messages - will do it. It will, as Bobby Kennedy stated, take a great effort and it will take consistent, persistent, lasting and clear leadership.

 
Snotbubbles said:
Libs want a press conference with power points like Cuomo.
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Give Cuomo another couple weeks to realize what's going on and I'm sure he'll have something to smoothly deliver in his speech. Rumor is he's starting to think about a curfew, that would be super......a week ago. 

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
He spoke before a presser on the Nasa launch. I posted the comments further up. I don't think a mid-day statement slipped into another event - and one with very mixed, muddled messages - will do it. It will, as Bobby Kennedy stated, take a great effort and it will take consistent, persistent, lasting and clear leadership.
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You actually believe that President Trump, speaking from the Oval Office, will change the mind of ANYONE who is involved in this?

Man...you do live in a bubble.

Like I said, it is up to the leadership of these cities and states to handle this without blaming President Trump for the actions of the looters.

 
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Opie said:
Only half of the country would even listen.....and he'd be ridiculed by the MSM no matter what he said.

He's (and everyone else) has already said what happened to George Floyd was wrong.
He's already called for swift justice for the ex-officer.
He's already called for peace.

Who listened and who keeps stoking the flames?
Click to expand...
When Ferguson was blowing up (last few days makes Ferguson look tame) he blamed poor leadership in Washington.

He hasn't said nearly enough but honestly he may not be capable of rising up to the moment. I can't imagine what a speech like this would sound like from him. 

 
Opie said:
You actually believe that President Trump, speaking from the Oval Office, will change the mind of ANYONE who is involved in this? Man...you do live in a bubble. Like I said, it is up to the leadership of these cities and states to handle this without blaming President Trump for the actions of the looters.
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What you're saying here is excusing Trump from leading, is that fair? It wouldn't matter, so do not even try?

 
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The General said:
When Ferguson was blowing up (last few days makes Ferguson look tame) he blamed poor leadership in Washington.

He hasn't said nearly enough but honestly he may not be capable of rising up to the moment. I can't imagine what a speech like this would sound like from him. 
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Would it sound something like..."If I had a son, he would have looked like Treyvon"?

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
What you're saying here is excusing Trump from leading, is that fair? It wouldn't matter, so do not even try?
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You keep laying this on the President.

Why can't the governors and mayors take care of their own cities and the voters who put them into office?

Why have they all been so inept?

 
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Opie said:
You keep laying this on the President.

Why can't the governors and mayors take care of their own cities and the voters who put them into office?

Why have they all been so inept?
Click to expand...


This is such a weird hill to die on. 

Whenever there is a national crisis in the United States, the President always goes on TV to try to calm the nation. That's part of his job because he's the one person who represents everyone. Or, at least, is supposed to.

 
whoknew said:
This is such a weird hill to die on. 

Whenever there is a national crisis in the United States, the President always goes on TV to try to calm the nation. That's part of his job because he's the one person who represents everyone. Or, at least, is supposed to.
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even before that local leadership had done absolutely NOTHING to stop it themselves.

 
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Opie said:
You keep laying this on the President. Why can't the governors and mayors take care of their own cities and the voters who put them into office? Why have they all been so inept?
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Eh, it's not all on the President. I think mayors and governors (and sheriffs) deserve huge credit and blame for what is going on, good and bad. But we have a flexible federal system for a reason, we are the United States of America, and when the federal government can help coordinate between the states and unify policy for them and with them well that is one of our great strengths as a nation. Having an absentee president on policy and who is casting about conspiracy theories and intensifying rhetoric can also have the opposite effect.

Opie, I think what I said was really pretty mild. I was just suggesting that the President prepare a great speech to unify the nation, I proposed very little from him. He could do more but I think it would help.

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
Eh, it's not all on the President. I think mayors and governors (and sheriffs) deserve huge credit and blame for what is going on, good and bad. But we have a flexible federal system for a reason, we are the United States of America, and when the federal government can help coordinate between the states and unify policy for them and with them well that is one of our great strengths as a nation. Having an absentee president on policy and who is casting about conspiracy theories and intensifying rhetoric can also have the opposite effect.
Click to expand...
So, what you are saying is that the incompetent Democrat leaders of these cities and states need the POTUS to restore peace.

Why were they elected in the first place?

 
Opie said:
Oh...he can lead...but the Left won't like what he does....whatever he does.
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I mean this is really where he is weak isn't it?

I find all of the whining and nothing burger attempts by the left to be utterly empty and embarassing.

But here is where Trump is truly helpless.  He can't lead, he isn't a leader.  He is a front runner.  Right now patently demonstrates just how far over his head he is when the world looks to him to set a positive message and tone.  Instead he digs deeper into the bully tactics and finger pointing.

He just comes up small.  :shrug:

 
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whoknew said:
I mean - we can argue about whether your characterization is accurate, but yes. He's the political leader of the country.

Lead.
Click to expand...
Again....list what the Democrat leaders of these cities have done to lead in their own cities and the people who elected them.

 
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Opie said:
So, what you are saying is that the incompetent Democrat leaders of these cities and states need the POTUS to restore peace. Why were they elected in the first place?
Click to expand...
Let's say, if you feel that way, that yes, a President can contribute greatly to peace with his language, tone and his demeanor in office.

 
GoBirds said:
They just want something new to whine about, Obama handled the same situation horribly. This isn't a Trump thing. 
Click to expand...
Well, lets look at Ferguson, for example. I agree - Obama was a day late. Of course, by a week later and after 4 days of riots, he had been on TV. 

Here's what Obama said in 2015 - 

“When Ferguson happened, there was a gap between how quickly we could pull together a police task force, recommendations. And so in that lag, it feels as if I haven’t spoken to the moment as effectively,” he said. “I suspect that if I were to do it over again, there might be something I could say that would’ve crystallized it more effectively. But Ferguson—the case itself was tougher because people didn’t know what was going on exactly. In some ways the [Eric] Garner case in New York was clearer because you had on videotape exactly what had happened.”

--

Fair critique - he should have come out sooner. But he did eventually. Trump, according to reports, has no interest. He'd rather yell at the governors about DOMINATING.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Let's say, if you feel that way, that yes, a President can contribute greatly to peace with his language, tone and his demeanor in office.
Click to expand...
...on those cities that overwhelmingly voted against him and rioted when he was elected?

Do you really think that there is anything he can say that will strike a nerve in a community that hates him?

 
Opie said:
Again....list what the Democrat leaders of these cities have done to lead in their own cities and the people who elected them.
Click to expand...
Well there are a lot of different things they have done. The mayor and Police Chief in Atlanta have done different things than the Mayor of Minneapolis or Flint or wherever. And clearly not all of them have been good. 

But that's sort of besides the point. I'm not sure why an individual Mayor's suckiness should have any affect on how Trump addresses the nation.

 
Opie said:
...on those cities that overwhelmingly voted against him and rioted when he was elected?

Do you really think that there is anything he can say that will strike a nerve in a community that hates him?
Click to expand...
Now you are parroting Trump's victim mentality.

Like I said, there are many many unfair criticisms of Trump.... this isn't one of them.

 
whoknew said:
Well, lets look at Ferguson, for example. I agree - Obama was a day late. Of course, by a week later and after 4 days of riots, he had been on TV. 

Here's what Obama said in 2015 - 

“When Ferguson happened, there was a gap between how quickly we could pull together a police task force, recommendations. And so in that lag, it feels as if I haven’t spoken to the moment as effectively,” he said. “I suspect that if I were to do it over again, there might be something I could say that would’ve crystallized it more effectively. But Ferguson—the case itself was tougher because people didn’t know what was going on exactly. In some ways the [Eric] Garner case in New York was clearer because you had on videotape exactly what had happened.”

--

Fair critique - he should have come out sooner. But he did eventually. Trump, according to reports, has no interest. He'd rather yell at the governors about DOMINATING.
Click to expand...
So, when it was all over....he made excuses?

 
Opie said:
...on those cities that overwhelmingly voted against him and rioted when he was elected? Do you really think that there is anything he can say that will strike a nerve in a community that hates him?
Click to expand...
I am just trying to discuss this with you calmly and decently, and I feel the same from you. I think what I said was really pretty mild. I was just suggesting that the President prepare a great speech to unify the nation, I proposed very little from him. He could do more but I think it would help.

This is an odd note you're striking though. These cities are largely black, and yes they happen to be largely Democratic. Here you say they hate Trump? This is in great contrast to the point from just last week about Maga and black voters vs Biden making the awful comment about blacks who vote for Trump not being really black. - So prove that out, go to the black - yes largely blue - electorate and speak to them and all of us. I live in such a city, we have had no problems here. He could do it anywhere. Just an idea, it offers Trump a great, fruitful opportunity to help our country and define his legacy. It is a moment that begs for greatness.

I also just want you to pause for a moment and look at the point here from the Trumpist POV, which is a great deal of effort put into explaining why Trump should not lead, why he should not take the burden of responsibility of the country's troubles (including the biggest, race) even though it is supposedly not of his making (race as a thing definitely is not). This often seems to be the no. 1 defining feature of this presidency. Think of our soldiers, health care workers and police, they do take such responsibility on their shoulders, and we love them for it. If the President did so choose to do so and did so responsibly yes I think people would love him for it.

 
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Opie said:
The looting ended when they ran out of stores to loot in their own neighborhoods and couldn't assemble in mass in other neighborhoods.

Obama did nothing to actually end it.
Click to expand...
I feel like you aren't even bothering to read the posts you are responding to.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
I am just trying to discuss this with you calmly and decently, and I feel the same from you. I think what I said was really pretty mild. I was just suggesting that the President prepare a great speech to unify the nation, I proposed very little from him. He could do more but I think it would help.

This is an odd note you're striking though. These cities are largely black, and yes they happen to be largely Democratic. This is in great contrast to the point from just last week about Maga and black voters vs Biden making the awful comment about blacks who vote for Trump not being really black. - So prove that out, go to the black - yes largely blue - electorate and speak to them and all of us. I live in such a city, we have had no problems here. He could do it anywhere. Just an idea, it offers Trump a great, fruitful opportunity to help our country and define his legacy. It is a moment that begs for greatness.

I also just want you to pause for a moment and look at the point here from the Trumpist POV, which is a great deal of effort put into explaining why Trump should not lead, why he should not take the burden of responsibility of the country's troubles (including the biggest, race) even though it is supposedly not of his making (race as a thing definitely is not). This often seems to be the no. 1 defining feature of this presidency. Think of our soldiers, health care workers and police, they do take such responsibility on their shoulders, and we love them for it. If the President did so choose to do so and did so responsibly yes I think people would love him for it.
Click to expand...
I'm not disagreeing with you at all.
This could be a pinnacle moment for President Trump...and it still may be. Who knows?
But, who is to say that he won't do anything until the Democrat leaders in these cities do something....anything at all?

Up to now, they have done absolutely NOTHING.

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
I am just trying to discuss this with you calmly and decently, and I feel the same from you. I think what I said was really pretty mild. I was just suggesting that the President prepare a great speech to unify the nation, I proposed very little from him. He could do more but I think it would help.

This is an odd note you're striking though. These cities are largely black, and yes they happen to be largely Democratic. Here you say they hate Trump? This is in great contrast to the point from just last week about Maga and black voters vs Biden making the awful comment about blacks who vote for Trump not being really black. - So prove that out, go to the black - yes largely blue - electorate and speak to them and all of us. I live in such a city, we have had no problems here. He could do it anywhere. Just an idea, it offers Trump a great, fruitful opportunity to help our country and define his legacy. It is a moment that begs for greatness.

I also just want you to pause for a moment and look at the point here from the Trumpist POV, which is a great deal of effort put into explaining why Trump should not lead, why he should not take the burden of responsibility of the country's troubles (including the biggest, race) even though it is supposedly not of his making (race as a thing definitely is not). This often seems to be the no. 1 defining feature of this presidency. Think of our soldiers, health care workers and police, they do take such responsibility on their shoulders, and we love them for it. If the President did so choose to do so and did so responsibly yes I think people would love him for it.
Click to expand...
Giving a speech to "unify the nation" is great in theory.  But we both know, there is nothing any old, white politician can say right now to unify the nation.  Cuomo is good at giving press conferences but then he makes bad decisions.  I prefer the opposite.  But the real fact is that sending in the FBI to investigate the death and now sending in the National Guard is the response that was needed, even though the National Guard move came a day late.  Trump should have put the National Guard on standby and then after the first night of riots and looting in MN he should have mobilized and not wait for the States.  I put that squarely on Trump.    

 
matuski said:
I mean this is really where he is weak isn't it?

I find all of the whining and nothing burger attempts by the left to be utterly empty and embarassing.

But here is where Trump is truly helpless.  He can't lead, he isn't a leader.  He is a front runner.  Right now patently demonstrates just how far over his head he is when the world looks to him to set a positive message and tone.  Instead he digs deeper into the bully tactics and finger pointing.

He just comes up small.  :shrug:
Click to expand...
Well said. "The left won't like it so why try" stuff shows a disconnect on what leadership is. Political leaders have dissenters. It's their job to keep trying even when it's tough. Trump supporters love to remind liberals that he's THEIR President too. If that's true, he needs to act like it.

I think this is a by-product a business man that never had to work his way up. For most leaders, you can't just fire your dissenters. 

 
Opie said:
Do you really think that there is anything he can say that will strike a nerve in a community that hates him?
Click to expand...
Yes. I despise Trump and have since long before he was a serious candidate for the office.  But if he laid down a great unifying speech and led like anyone holding that office would be expected too I would absolutely laud him for and be proud he did it.  Leaders lead, it’s  what they do, they don’t make excuses. Its without question, not even close, my biggest issue with Trump.  His lack of leadership skills.  You can’t lead when it’s about you.  

 
Opie said:
I'm not disagreeing with you at all.
This could be a pinnacle moment for President Trump...and it still may be. Who knows?
But, who is to say that he won't do anything until the Democrat leaders in these cities do something....anything at all?

Up to now, they have done absolutely NOTHING.
Click to expand...
Exactly, and today they complain about Trump not saying anything. Tomorrow they complain he didn’t say the right thing. It’s all so predictable. 

 
GoBirds said:
Exactly, and today they complain about Trump not saying anything. Tomorrow they complain he didn’t say the right thing. It’s all so predictable. 
Click to expand...
...or he acted too early....or....acted too late.....acted to strong.....didn't act strong enough

It's just a movie we've all seen before....over and over again.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Trump speaking through an aide is not Trump speaking. Ok.
Click to expand...
THIS is President Trump speaking....

"The death of George Floyd on the streets of Minneapolis was a grave tragedy. It should never have happened. It has filled Americans all over the country with horror, anger and grief. Yesterday, I spoke to George’s family and expressed the sorrow of our entire nation for their loss. I stand before you as a friend and ally to every American seeking justice and peace and I stand before you in firm opposition to anyone exploiting this tragedy to loot, rob, attack and menace. Healing, not hatred, justice, not chaos, are the mission at hand.

The police officers involved in this incident have been fired from their jobs. One officer has already been arrested and charged with murder. State and federal authorities are carrying out an investigation to see what further charges may be warranted, including against sadly, the other three. In addition, my administration has opened a civil rights investigation and I have asked the Attorney General and the Justice Department to expedite it. I understand the pain that people are feeling. We support the right of peaceful protestors and we hear their pleas, but what we are now seeing on the streets of our cities has nothing to do with justice or with peace. The memory of George Floyd is being dishonored by rioters, looters and anarchists. The violence and vandalism is being led by Antifa and other radical left wing groups who are terrorizing the innocent, destroying jobs, hurting businesses and burning down buildings.

The main victims of this horrible, horrible situations are the citizens who live in these once lovely communities. The mobs are devastating the life’s work of good people and destroying their dream. Right now, America needs creation, not destruction, cooperation, not contempt, security, not anarchy and there will be no anarchy. Civilization must be cherished, defended, and protected. The voices of law abiding citizens must be heard and heard very loudly. We cannot and must not allow a small group of criminals and vandals to wreck our cities and lay waste to our communities. We must defend the rights of every citizen to live without violence, prejudice, or fear. We support the overwhelming majority of police officers who are incredible in every way and devoted public servants. They keep our city safe, protect our communities from gangs and drugs and risk their own lives for us every day.

No one is more upset than fellow law enforcement offices by this small handful who failed to abide by their oath to serve and protect. My administration will stop mob violence and we’ll stop it cold. It does not serve the interest of justice or any citizen of any race, color, or creed for the government to give into anarchy, abandoned police precincts, or allow communities to be burned to the ground, won’t happen. Those making excuses or justifications for violence are not helping the downtrodden, but delivering new anguish and new pain. From day one of my administration, we’ve made it a top priority to build up distressed communities and revitalize our crumbling inner cities. We fought hard with Senator Tim Scott ___ and many others to create opportunity zones, helping to draw a surge of new investment to the places in our country that need it most.

We must all work together as a society to expand opportunity and to create a future of greater dignity and promise for all of our people. We must forge a partnership with community leaders, local law enforcement and the faith community to restore hope. Radical left criminals, thugs, and others all throughout our country and throughout the world, will not be allowed to set communities ablaze. We won’t let it happen. It harms those who have the least, and we will be protecting those who have the least. The leadership of the National Guard and the Department of Justice are now in close communication with state and city officials in Minnesota and we’re coordinating our efforts with local law enforcement all across our nation. In America, justice is never achieved at the hands of an angry mob. I will not allow angry mobs to dominate, won’t happen. It is essential that we protect the crown jewel of American democracy, the rule of law and our independent system of justice.

Every citizen in every community has the right to be safe in their workplace, safe in their homes and safe in our city streets. This is the sacred right of all Americans that I am totally determined to defend and will defend. My administration will always stand against violence, mayhem and disorder. We will stand with the family of George Floyd, with the peaceful protesters and with every law abiding citizen who wants decency, civility, safety, and security. We are working toward a more just society, but that means building up, not tearing down.

But that means building up, not tearing down, joining hands, not hurling fists, standing in solidarity, not surrendering to hostility".

 
Opie said:
THIS is President Trump speaking....

"The death of George Floyd on the streets of Minneapolis was a grave tragedy. It should never have happened. It has filled Americans all over the country with horror, anger and grief. Yesterday, I spoke to George’s family and expressed the sorrow of our entire nation for their loss. I stand before you as a friend and ally to every American seeking justice and peace and I stand before you in firm opposition to anyone exploiting this tragedy to loot, rob, attack and menace. Healing, not hatred, justice, not chaos, are the mission at hand.

The police officers involved in this incident have been fired from their jobs. One officer has already been arrested and charged with murder. State and federal authorities are carrying out an investigation to see what further charges may be warranted, including against sadly, the other three. In addition, my administration has opened a civil rights investigation and I have asked the Attorney General and the Justice Department to expedite it. I understand the pain that people are feeling. We support the right of peaceful protestors and we hear their pleas, but what we are now seeing on the streets of our cities has nothing to do with justice or with peace. The memory of George Floyd is being dishonored by rioters, looters and anarchists. The violence and vandalism is being led by Antifa and other radical left wing groups who are terrorizing the innocent, destroying jobs, hurting businesses and burning down buildings.

The main victims of this horrible, horrible situations are the citizens who live in these once lovely communities. The mobs are devastating the life’s work of good people and destroying their dream. Right now, America needs creation, not destruction, cooperation, not contempt, security, not anarchy and there will be no anarchy. Civilization must be cherished, defended, and protected. The voices of law abiding citizens must be heard and heard very loudly. We cannot and must not allow a small group of criminals and vandals to wreck our cities and lay waste to our communities. We must defend the rights of every citizen to live without violence, prejudice, or fear. We support the overwhelming majority of police officers who are incredible in every way and devoted public servants. They keep our city safe, protect our communities from gangs and drugs and risk their own lives for us every day.

No one is more upset than fellow law enforcement offices by this small handful who failed to abide by their oath to serve and protect. My administration will stop mob violence and we’ll stop it cold. It does not serve the interest of justice or any citizen of any race, color, or creed for the government to give into anarchy, abandoned police precincts, or allow communities to be burned to the ground, won’t happen. Those making excuses or justifications for violence are not helping the downtrodden, but delivering new anguish and new pain. From day one of my administration, we’ve made it a top priority to build up distressed communities and revitalize our crumbling inner cities. We fought hard with Senator Tim Scott ___ and many others to create opportunity zones, helping to draw a surge of new investment to the places in our country that need it most.

We must all work together as a society to expand opportunity and to create a future of greater dignity and promise for all of our people. We must forge a partnership with community leaders, local law enforcement and the faith community to restore hope. Radical left criminals, thugs, and others all throughout our country and throughout the world, will not be allowed to set communities ablaze. We won’t let it happen. It harms those who have the least, and we will be protecting those who have the least. The leadership of the National Guard and the Department of Justice are now in close communication with state and city officials in Minnesota and we’re coordinating our efforts with local law enforcement all across our nation. In America, justice is never achieved at the hands of an angry mob. I will not allow angry mobs to dominate, won’t happen. It is essential that we protect the crown jewel of American democracy, the rule of law and our independent system of justice.

Every citizen in every community has the right to be safe in their workplace, safe in their homes and safe in our city streets. This is the sacred right of all Americans that I am totally determined to defend and will defend. My administration will always stand against violence, mayhem and disorder. We will stand with the family of George Floyd, with the peaceful protesters and with every law abiding citizen who wants decency, civility, safety, and security. We are working toward a more just society, but that means building up, not tearing down.

But that means building up, not tearing down, joining hands, not hurling fists, standing in solidarity, not surrendering to hostility".
Click to expand...
Sounds presidential to me.  What part of this is bad?

 
JohnnyU said:
Sounds presidential to me.  What part of this is bad?
Click to expand...
It was great.  I watched it live.  I am convinced that CNN and MSNBC didn't air it or any replay of it because there are a lot of lefties in here saying Trump has not addressed the rioting.  Sad that MSM keeps half the population in the dark for political reasons on purpose.

 
JohnnyU said:
Sounds presidential to me.  What part of this is bad?
Click to expand...
It’s bad when you take it in the context of his history. He has spent his entire life defending the sort of police actions he is now criticizing. When Colin Kaepernick attempted peaceful protest Trump went out of his way to demonize him. Trump strongly supports the police unions that prevent real change and keep the bad apples and bigots in the police force. And he has publicly encouraged them, when making arrests, to mistreat those arrested. 

 
timschochet said:
It’s bad when you take it in the context of his history. He has spent his entire life defending the sort of police actions he is now criticizing. When Colin Kaepernick attempted peaceful protest Trump went out of his way to demonize him. Trump strongly supports the police unions that prevent real change and keep the bad apples and bigots in the police force. And he has publicly encouraged them, when making arrests, to mistreat those arrested. 
Click to expand...
:lmao:  What are you talking about?  Link please showing he is asking for police to mistreat those arrested.

 
timschochet said:
It’s bad when you take it in the context of his history. He has spent his entire life defending the sort of police actions he is now criticizing. When Colin Kaepernick attempted peaceful protest Trump went out of his way to demonize him. Trump strongly supports the police unions that prevent real change and keep the bad apples and bigots in the police force. And he has publicly encouraged them, when making arrests, to mistreat those arrested. 
Click to expand...
Sorry...gotta call  :bs:

 
Opie said:
I'm not disagreeing with you at all.
This could be a pinnacle moment for President Trump...and it still may be. Who knows?
But, who is to say that he won't do anything until the Democrat leaders in these cities do something....anything at all?

Up to now, they have done absolutely NOTHING.
Click to expand...
well Mnpls leadership did abandon a police station so it could be burned down.

 
Opie said:
...or he acted too early....or....acted too late.....acted to strong.....didn't act strong enough

It's just a movie we've all seen before....over and over again.
Click to expand...
Yep, same people will always complain (along with their aliases as one was exposed yesterday responding to themselves as they forgot to sign in the alias) no matter what the topic. Best to call them out and move along. 

 
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