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1 hour ago, timschochet said:

All right then: please describe what was specifically atrocious about Biden’s policies and why. See if you can do it in a way that doesn’t make you sound like a radical leftist. And then explain why Trump’s policies are a better alternative. Tia

So here goes. 

1984: Biden spearheaded the Comprehensive Control Act that allowed police to seize and absorb someone’s property — whether cash, cars, guns, or something else — without proving the person is guilty of a crime. 

1986: Biden sponsored and co-wrote the Anti-Drug Abuse Act which caused a large disparity between the sentencing of crack cocaine and powder cocaine users. Black drug users were more likely than whites to use crack and hence were incarcerated in larger numbers.

1988: Biden co-sponsored the Anti-Drug Abuse Act which strengthened prison sentences for drug possession, enhanced penalties for transporting drugs, and established the Office of National Drug Control Policy, which coordinates and leads federal anti-drug efforts.

1994: Biden wrote the Violent Crime and Law Enforcement Act which had mandatory minimum sentences, added to mass incarcerations and had the "three strikes" that gave mandatory life sentences, increased Federal crimes subject to the death penalty and allowed minors as young as 13 to be tried as adults.  How did this effect minorities?  With the 3 strike policy, now 78.5% of people serving life sentences are minorities.  The Federal death penalty laws, 44% of those recommended for death were blacks, 21% were hispanics.  The juvenile laws of the crime bill resulted in 66% of juveniles sentenced to life in prison were black. Juveniles of color also constitute a majority of cases that are transferred to adult criminal court, regardless of the offense category.  Touting his 1994 crime bill, Biden said, "The liberal wing of the Democratic Party is now for 60 new death penalties… The liberal wing of the Democratic Party has 70 enhanced penalties... The liberal wing of the Democratic Party is for 100,000 cops. The liberal wing of the Democratic Party is for 125,000 new state prison cells."

2010: Biden supported the Fair Sentencing Act which reduced the sentencing disparity crack to powder cocaine from 100-1 down to 18-1 (I mean, I guess I have to put a good crime reform law in here).

So to recap, Biden spent the better part of 20 years writing and sponsoring laws that disproportionately put blacks and hispanic offenders in jail, for longer periods of time and with tougher penalties.  That's his record.  

2018: Trump signed into law the First Step Act.  It allows judges to ignore the mandatory minimums and also shortened life to 25 years and 20 years to 15 years.  It also increased the commuting of sentences.  The First Step Act made retroactive the Fair Sentencing Act of 2010, thousands of people who were incarcerated have seen their sentences commuted as a result.  It started the "Ready to Work Initiative" that helps former inmates get back to work.

Trump's First Step Act began reversing some of the policies that Biden helped establish. 

You're welcome.

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1 hour ago, Widbil83 said:

He might be gone, but we are still dealing with the damage he did. Remember, Obama and the Democrats gave Occupy the green light and it’s been down hill from there.

 

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/05/31/pollak-the-riots-began-with-obamas-embrace-of-occupy/

We will be dealing with his damage for a long time, look at how many now have insurance in name only as the can never afford the high deductibles we all must live with now. 

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33 minutes ago, Kal El said:

I highly doubt that John Adams had "screw with the state's pandemic response to shift blame from oneself for handling it as poorly as possible without being an actual supervillain" in mind when he started in on it.

You should probably read some of the Federalist Papers.  Here's a nice article to give you a brief history:  https://www.history.com/news/federalism-constitution-founding-fathers-states-rights

"According to James Madison, a committed federalist, the Constitution maintains the sovereignty of states by enumerating very few express powers to the federal government, while “[t]hose which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite.”

Article I Section 8 contains a list of all of the “enumerated” powers that are exclusively delegated to the federal government. Those include the power to declare war, maintain armed forces, regulate commerce, coin money and establish a Post Office.

But that very same Section 8 also includes the so-called “Elastic Clause” that authorizes Congress to write and pass any laws that are “necessary and proper” to carry out its enumerated powers. These powers are known collectively as “implied powers” and have been used by Congress to create a national bank, to collect a federal income tax, to institute the draft, to pass gun control laws and to set a federal minimum wage, among others."

So individual States are responsible for pandemic response since not every State requires the same response.  The Federal Government is there to support the States response not control it.  

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23 minutes ago, The General said:

That and stealing ballots from mailboxes to vote for Joe Biden.

 

21 minutes ago, Leroy Hoard said:

Who needs money when there are ballots to steal?

 

You cant help yourselves, but it's ok, we know why you keep coming in here. It's human to seek out a coping mechanism when things are so bad.  

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22 minutes ago, GoBirds said:

Exactly, the unhinged Left would never stoop to this level. :ph34r:

I’d wager the vast majority of Antifa or whoever these people are think Joe Biden is the same as Donald Trump.

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3 minutes ago, The General said:

I’d wager the vast majority of Antifa or whoever these people are think Joe Biden is the same as Donald Trump.

I think we all could have guessed you would have some scenario where it wouldn’t help Biden. We get it, you always take the same position. We get it. 

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28 minutes ago, Snotbubbles said:

So here goes. 

1984: Biden spearheaded the Comprehensive Control Act that allowed police to seize and absorb someone’s property — whether cash, cars, guns, or something else — without proving the person is guilty of a crime. 

1986: Biden sponsored and co-wrote the Anti-Drug Abuse Act which caused a large disparity between the sentencing of crack cocaine and powder cocaine users. Black drug users were more likely than whites to use crack and hence were incarcerated in larger numbers.

1988: Biden co-sponsored the Anti-Drug Abuse Act which strengthened prison sentences for drug possession, enhanced penalties for transporting drugs, and established the Office of National Drug Control Policy, which coordinates and leads federal anti-drug efforts.

1994: Biden wrote the Violent Crime and Law Enforcement Act which had mandatory minimum sentences, added to mass incarcerations and had the "three strikes" that gave mandatory life sentences, increased Federal crimes subject to the death penalty and allowed minors as young as 13 to be tried as adults.  How did this effect minorities?  With the 3 strike policy, now 78.5% of people serving life sentences are minorities.  The Federal death penalty laws, 44% of those recommended for death were blacks, 21% were hispanics.  The juvenile laws of the crime bill resulted in 66% of juveniles sentenced to life in prison were black. Juveniles of color also constitute a majority of cases that are transferred to adult criminal court, regardless of the offense category.  Touting his 1994 crime bill, Biden said, "The liberal wing of the Democratic Party is now for 60 new death penalties… The liberal wing of the Democratic Party has 70 enhanced penalties... The liberal wing of the Democratic Party is for 100,000 cops. The liberal wing of the Democratic Party is for 125,000 new state prison cells."

2010: Biden supported the Fair Sentencing Act which reduced the sentencing disparity crack to powder cocaine from 100-1 down to 18-1 (I mean, I guess I have to put a good crime reform law in here).

So to recap, Biden spent the better part of 20 years writing and sponsoring laws that disproportionately put blacks and hispanic offenders in jail, for longer periods of time and with tougher penalties.  That's his record.  

2018: Trump signed into law the First Step Act.  It allows judges to ignore the mandatory minimums and also shortened life to 25 years and 20 years to 15 years.  It also increased the commuting of sentences.  The First Step Act made retroactive the Fair Sentencing Act of 2010, thousands of people who were incarcerated have seen their sentences commuted as a result.  It started the "Ready to Work Initiative" that helps former inmates get back to work.

Trump's First Step Act began reversing some of the policies that Biden helped establish. 

You're welcome.

Good arguments! I figured you’d stick to criminal reform issues. It would take me too long to debate all of it and I won’t because on some of it I agree with you. For instance I appreciated the First Step Act by Trump. I wish he had followed it up as he promised. 
Over the next few months hopefully we can have a more detailed discussion about this. Maybe when things get a little calmer...

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6 minutes ago, GoBirds said:

I think we all could have guessed you would have some scenario where it wouldn’t help Biden. We get it, you always take the same position. We get it. 

You think Biden is actively courting the Antifa vote? You think these looter #######s are really active voters and if they are are super pumped to vote for Joe Biden?

I’m not sure what your point is.

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12 minutes ago, The General said:

You think Biden is actively courting the Antifa vote? You think these looter #######s are really active voters and if they are are super pumped to vote for Joe Biden?

I’m not sure what your point is.

That’s why the Ds are pushing for mail in voting 

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1 hour ago, The General said:

Biden is eating Trump’s lunch in 60 year old + voters

This is how Biden wins.

These lunatics looting were not voting for Biden or voting at all I’d guess.

Wait until all these senior citizen voters find out Team Biden is bailing out looters. 

Quote

As riots ravage cities across the U.S., celebrities have announced that they would make donations to bail out rioters. There is also a Reuters report that members of Joe Biden's campaign staff have made donations to a group that assists people who were arrested during the riots stemming from George Floyd protests.

At least 13 Biden campaign staffers reportedly made donations last week to the Minnesota Freedom Fund, which claims is "fighting back against Minnesota's unjust bail system and paying immigrant bonds," as well as trying to end cash bail.

https://www.theblaze.com/news/celebrities-biden-donate-protesters-riot

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2 minutes ago, Widbil83 said:

Wait until all these senior citizen voters find out Team Biden is bailing out looters. 

https://www.theblaze.com/news/celebrities-biden-donate-protesters-riot

That’s how elections work, we’ll see if this moves the needle.  Trump has a lot of catch up to do.

Older voters seem to be focused on his handling of COVID and the economy. 

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1 hour ago, Snotbubbles said:

You should probably read some of the Federalist Papers.  Here's a nice article to give you a brief history:  https://www.history.com/news/federalism-constitution-founding-fathers-states-rights

"According to James Madison, a committed federalist, the Constitution maintains the sovereignty of states by enumerating very few express powers to the federal government, while “[t]hose which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite.”

Article I Section 8 contains a list of all of the “enumerated” powers that are exclusively delegated to the federal government. Those include the power to declare war, maintain armed forces, regulate commerce, coin money and establish a Post Office.

But that very same Section 8 also includes the so-called “Elastic Clause” that authorizes Congress to write and pass any laws that are “necessary and proper” to carry out its enumerated powers. These powers are known collectively as “implied powers” and have been used by Congress to create a national bank, to collect a federal income tax, to institute the draft, to pass gun control laws and to set a federal minimum wage, among others."

So individual States are responsible for pandemic response since not every State requires the same response.  The Federal Government is there to support the States response not control it.  

So why did Trump interfere, then, especially since it's not his job to do so?

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14 minutes ago, The General said:

Older voters seem to be focused on his handling of COVID and the economy. 

Older voters are sitting at home right now scared to death at what they are seeing on TV. When they find out Biden is helping get these looters and people rioting out of jail he’s toast. I can’t wait to hear him bumble through the explication on this. Any idea if he’s coming out of the basement this week?

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2 minutes ago, Widbil83 said:

Older voters are sitting at home right now scared to death at what they are seeing on TV. When they find out Biden is helping get these looters and people rioting out of jail he’s toast. I can’t wait to hear him bumble through the explication on this. Any idea if he’s coming out of the basement this week?

We’ll see. I’ll be interested in more info on this as well.

Latest polls had Biden +10. 

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22 minutes ago, boots11234 said:

Daughter works at gun range. All ammo is sold out 

Stocked up last week and when we first went into lockdown. Just ordered some more magazines tonight. I'll wonder over to my local shop tomorrow to see what's left. 

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11 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

This is is bad, this is really, really bad.

Agreed, can’t believe we are watching churches burn in DC and the military hasn’t stepped in using whatever force is necessary. This isn’t peaceful protest, this is crime. 

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1 hour ago, Snotbubbles said:

He didn't.  

He absolutely did. Everybody saw him abdicate responsibility, then complain about the governors not opening states up faster, also weirdly complaining about GA opening too fast, showing once again his inability to stick to a position, even tweeting about "liberating" states who were still rightly under quarantine measures.

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5 minutes ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

IF someone is looting, burning, causing damage, arrest them.

Meanwhile

100k dead from Covid19

worst unemployment ever.

cities are burning every night

ZERO leadership from the Trump admin.

Get this loser out of the white house for gods sake,  I was promised winning.

 

Feel free to role Biden out of the basement to address the arsonists, they are his people. 

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I assume tonight or tomorrow an Oval address has to be coming? 
Beyond baffling that the WH literally and figuratively just went dark yesterday. 

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Despite the current poll numbers, despite Trump’s failure to address the nation about the unrest, I think these protests and riots have put him in a real position to be re-elected, which I never would have believed only 48 hours ago. 

Basically Trump will adopt the Nixon strategy of running as the law and order candidate. This is a strength of his. He can avoid talking about the current economy, avoid talking about COVID, and simply promise to be tough. The broken glass, the looting, the graffiti about killing cops- these are all gifts to Trump. It might very well make him the favorite again. 

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15 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Despite the current poll numbers, despite Trump’s failure to address the nation about the unrest, I think these protests and riots have put him in a real position to be re-elected, which I never would have believed only 48 hours ago. 

Basically Trump will adopt the Nixon strategy of running as the law and order candidate. This is a strength of his. He can avoid talking about the current economy, avoid talking about COVID, and simply promise to be tough. The broken glass, the looting, the graffiti about killing cops- these are all gifts to Trump. It might very well make him the favorite again. 

Hopefully, it won't have an impact by the time of the election, but I agree it's very advantageous for Trump. And I'd think his failure to address it is because he knows that and isn't in a hurry for this to end.

When he does finally speak on it, I expect he'll do what he typically does.........a lot of blaming the radical left, some escalating, and little attempt to fix anything.

 

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34 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Despite the current poll numbers, despite Trump’s failure to address the nation about the unrest, I think these protests and riots have put him in a real position to be re-elected, which I never would have believed only 48 hours ago. 

Basically Trump will adopt the Nixon strategy of running as the law and order candidate. This is a strength of his. He can avoid talking about the current economy, avoid talking about COVID, and simply promise to be tough. The broken glass, the looting, the graffiti about killing cops- these are all gifts to Trump. It might very well make him the favorite again. 

Have been thinking the same thing. Not sure it's enough to help him win, but the chaos helps him with his law and order shtick.

 

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20 hours ago, knowledge dropper said:

Had to tell the kids the distant noises last night were “fireworks” and don’t get upset.  Meanwhile, I slept maybe 4 hours.  

If you can't see the stars at night....move

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58 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Despite the current poll numbers, despite Trump’s failure to address the nation about the unrest, I think these protests and riots have put him in a real position to be re-elected, which I never would have believed only 48 hours ago. 

Basically Trump will adopt the Nixon strategy of running as the law and order candidate. This is a strength of his. He can avoid talking about the current economy, avoid talking about COVID, and simply promise to be tough. The broken glass, the looting, the graffiti about killing cops- these are all gifts to Trump. It might very well make him the favorite again. 

He was always going to be re-elected. All the counter productive protests going on now only help him though I agree.

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1 hour ago, timschochet said:

Despite the current poll numbers, despite Trump’s failure to address the nation about the unrest, I think these protests and riots have put him in a real position to be re-elected, which I never would have believed only 48 hours ago. 

Basically Trump will adopt the Nixon strategy of running as the law and order candidate. This is a strength of his. He can avoid talking about the current economy, avoid talking about COVID, and simply promise to be tough. The broken glass, the looting, the graffiti about killing cops- these are all gifts to Trump. It might very well make him the favorite again. 

I’m confused on why this would help Trump? Everything that is happening right now is all happening under HIS watch. Cities have been protesting and burning down for a good 5 days now and Trump hasn’t done a damn thing. Why would anyone be more inclined to vote for him if he takes the ‘law and order’ approach when he’s shown he wouldn’t even do that when a situation like this arises?

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11 minutes ago, Bucsfan5493 said:

Biden was out on the streets yesterday talking and grieving with protestors in Delaware.

Trump was hiding in the basement of the White House tweeting like the coward and pathetic leader he is.

Where did you want the President yesterday considering the chaos going on outside of the White House?

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1 hour ago, Trey said:

I assume tonight or tomorrow an Oval address has to be coming? 
Beyond baffling that the WH literally and figuratively just went dark yesterday. 

https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1267246677733380097/photo/1

That was by design. Trump and some of his advisors calculated that he should not speak to the nation because he had nothing to say, according to a senior administration official. He had no tangible policy or action to announce, nor did he feel an urgent motivation to try to bring people together. So he stayed silent.

Not sure I entirely buy that, considering the lack of something to say has never stopped him before.

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21 minutes ago, Bucsfan5493 said:

Biden was out on the streets yesterday talking and grieving with protestors in Delaware.

Trump was hiding in the basement of the White House tweeting like the coward and pathetic leader he is.

Secret Service moved him for protection.  I cannot believe the stuff that is being allowed on this forum.  

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1 hour ago, timschochet said:

Despite the current poll numbers, despite Trump’s failure to address the nation about the unrest, I think these protests and riots have put him in a real position to be re-elected, which I never would have believed only 48 hours ago. 

Basically Trump will adopt the Nixon strategy of running as the law and order candidate. This is a strength of his. He can avoid talking about the current economy, avoid talking about COVID, and simply promise to be tough. The broken glass, the looting, the graffiti about killing cops- these are all gifts to Trump. It might very well make him the favorite again. 

This simply isn't true.   Trump addressed the riots when he was in Florida.

Edited by Don't Noonan
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Just now, knowledge dropper said:

Secret Service moved him for protection.  I cannot believe the stuff that is being allowed on this forum.  

Also Biden being in the streets. :lmao: They pulled him out of the basement for a 2 min photo op with a couple people in a totally isolated area the day after. 

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35 minutes ago, Bucsfan5493 said:

Biden was out on the streets yesterday talking and grieving with protestors in Delaware.

Trump was hiding in the basement of the White House tweeting like the coward and pathetic leader he is.

We're asking people to be cool. If you want to discuss issues, please do that and be specific. If people want to use this forum to get their trolling slaps in, please do it somewhere else. 

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