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So if I'm following this correctly, Trump is promising to do something that Obama already signed into existence in 2010 as part of a law a bill Trump tried to repeal unsuccessfully for three years? 

We've gone from shoveling the stinky brown stuff to using a backhoe.  

Edited by Dinsy Ejotuz
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13 minutes ago, Dinsy Ejotuz said:

So if I'm following this correctly, Trump is promising to do something that Obama already signed into existence in 2010 as part of a law a bill Trump tried to repeal unsuccessfully for three years? 

We've gone from shoveling the stinky brown stuff to using a backhoe.  

Smells like roses, imo.

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43 minutes ago, Dinsy Ejotuz said:

So if I'm following this correctly, Trump is promising to do something that Obama already signed into existence in 2010 as part of a law a bill Trump tried to repeal unsuccessfully for three years? 

We've gone from shoveling the stinky brown stuff to using a backhoe.  

So is he doing this now or “in two weeks”?

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2 hours ago, Dinsy Ejotuz said:

So if I'm following this correctly, Trump is promising to do something that Obama already signed into existence in 2010 as part of a law a bill Trump tried to repeal unsuccessfully for three years? 

We've gone from shoveling the stinky brown stuff to using a backhoe.  

Trump is copying verbatim President Obama's law about pre-existing conditions, and not only is he not acknowledging that fact but claiming "this has never been done before."

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, Dinsy Ejotuz said:

So if I'm following this correctly, Trump is promising to do something that Obama already signed into existence in 2010 as part of a law a bill Trump tried to repeal unsuccessfully for three years? 

We've gone from shoveling the stinky brown stuff to using a backhoe.  

It wasn't perfect, but the ACA was a good first step, as Trump has realized 3 and a half years into his term. He also had both houses of Congress for 2 years, but nothing to show for it except tax cuts that will never pay for themselves. 

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4 hours ago, SoBeDad said:

It wasn't perfect, but the ACA was a good first step, as Trump has realized 3 and a half years into his term. He also had both houses of Congress for 2 years, but nothing to show for it except tax cuts that will never pay for themselves. 

they would have in spades.  Any President would be roasted for the Pandemic's impact on the economy.  Trump's administration has actually handled that better than any of his liberal counterparts would have.

Edited by TripItUp
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1 minute ago, TripItUp said:

they would have in spades.  Any President would be roasted for the Pandemic's impact on the economy.  Trump's administration has actually handled that better than of his liberal counterparts would have.

Aside from a couple of economists in the Trump administration, no one really believes the Trump tax cuts would've ever paid for themselves. Trump's economists were expecting continued growth of 3 to 4%, without any down turns. Both expectations were unrealistic.

There's no recent evidence that Democrats are bad for the economy, see what Clinton and Obama did during their 16 years of growth.

Even without the pandemic, the Trump tax cuts were a dud. The results of the Trump tax cuts, per Wikipedia:

 >> Analysis of first-year results released by the Congressional Research Service in May 2019 found:

"a relatively small (if any) first-year effect on the economy"

"a feedback effect of 0.3% of GDP or less," such that the tax cut did not pay for itself

"pretax profits and economic depreciation (the price of capital) grew faster than wages," meaning shareholders benefited more than workers

inflation-adjusted wage growth "is smaller than overall growth in labor compensation and indicates that ordinary workers had very little growth in wage rates"

"the evidence does not suggest a surge in investment from abroad in 2018"

"While evidence does indicate significant repurchases of shares, either from tax cuts or repatriated revenues, relatively little was directed to paying worker bonuses"

The tax cut was enacted three months into the 2018 fiscal year. Corporate tax receipts for the full fiscal year ended September 2018 were down 31% from the prior fiscal year, the largest decline since records began in 1934, except for during the Great Recession when corporate profits, and hence corporate tax receipts, plummeted. Analysts attributed the fiscal 2018 decline to the tax cut.

The Council of Economic Advisers had estimated in October 2017 that the corporate tax cut of the TCJA would increase real median household income by $3000 to $7000 annually, but during the first year following enactment of the tax cut the figure increased by $553, which the Census Bureau characterized as statistically insignificant. <<

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51 minutes ago, TripItUp said:

they would have in spades.  Any President would be roasted for the Pandemic's impact on the economy.  Trump's administration has actually handled that better than of his liberal counterparts would have.

How do you know this? They were blowing up the deficits. Trump’s economy was beginning to sputter before COVID and was well below the projections needed for these tax cuts to “pay for themselves”.

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Just now, The General said:

How do you know this? They were blowing up the deficits. Trump’s economy was beginning to sputter before COVID and was well below the projections needed for these tax cuts to “pay for themselves”.

Record unemployment is generally one of the best indicators of a strong economy.   

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6 minutes ago, TripItUp said:

 Which any economist would tell you has its ebbs and flows.

Trump never achieved the 3% over the year benchmark I always read in here that was important. It was going down pre-Covid. How do the tax cuts pay for themselves? What is this based on?

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1 minute ago, The General said:

Trump never achieved the 3% over the year benchmark I always read in here that was important. It was going down pre-Covid. How do the tax cuts pay for themselves? What is this based on?

The basic idea is that the capital that is saved from taxes is reinvested into other businesses that create wealth and jobs.

As opposed to inhibiting job creators with taxation and depressing job growth and wealth creation.  There is a reason Tesla and Apple are American companies and not Chinese or European companies.

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3 minutes ago, TripItUp said:

The basic idea is that the capital that is saved from taxes is reinvested into other businesses that create wealth and jobs.

As opposed to inhibiting job creators with taxation and depressing job growth and wealth creation.  There is a reason Tesla and Apple are American companies and not Chinese or European companies.

But that's not what was happening at least in terms of the impact on our deficit. Isn't that what we are talking about?

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1 minute ago, The General said:

But that's not what was happening at least in terms of the impact on our deficit. Isn't that what we are talking about?

You are only talking about the deficit.  "Taxes that pay for themselves" was the original topic I was speaking to.

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6 minutes ago, TripItUp said:

The basic idea is that the capital that is saved from taxes is reinvested into other businesses that create wealth and jobs.

As opposed to inhibiting job creators with taxation and depressing job growth and wealth creation.  There is a reason Tesla and Apple are American companies and not Chinese or European companies.

We all know the idea.  It just hasn’t shown to work that way. (Enough to pay for themselves, anyway.) Too much of it is not invested.

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Just now, TripItUp said:

You are only talking about the deficit.  "Taxes that pay for themselves" was the original topic I was speaking to.

Fair enough. Deficit growing, economy not growing are not good indicators that economic and tax policy are working.

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2 minutes ago, Juxtatarot said:

We all know the idea.  It just hasn’t shown to work that way. (Enough to pay for themselves, anyway.) Too much of it is not invested.

There are bright people on both sides of this debate.  

To be clear, I'm not talking about Reagan trickle down policy...the flaw in that policy was that it lacked incentives for reinvestment and job creation.  

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9 minutes ago, TripItUp said:

There are bright people on both sides of this debate.  

To be clear, I'm not talking about Reagan trickle down policy...the flaw in that policy was that it lacked incentives for reinvestment and job creation.  

What are some examples of successful incentives?

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7 minutes ago, TripItUp said:

There are bright people on both sides of this debate.  

To be clear, I'm not talking about Reagan trickle down policy...the flaw in that policy was that it lacked incentives for reinvestment and job creation.  

The Regan tax cuts occurred when the highest rate was 70%, while the Bush tax cuts helped a little bit because of the 2001 recession. The timing and size of the Trump tax cuts was completely wrong. Plus, we're getting older by the day as a country and have health and retirement issues to deal with, and the Trump tax cuts made it even more challenging. 

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10 minutes ago, Juxtatarot said:

What are some examples of successful incentives?

  1. Cash reimbursements for training employees 
  2. Financing through low-interest loan programs
  3. Grants 
  4. Loan guarantee programs 
  5. Tax abatements 
  6. Tax credits (such as the federal work opportunity credit incentivizing you to hire from targeted groups of people and the research credit incentivizing R&D
  7. Tax deductions (such as the federal write off for making architectural changes to remove barriers for the elderly and disabled)
  8. Utility rate discounts
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4 minutes ago, TripItUp said:
  1. Cash reimbursements for training employees 
  2. Financing through low-interest loan programs
  3. Grants 
  4. Loan guarantee programs 
  5. Tax abatements 
  6. Tax credits (such as the federal work opportunity credit incentivizing you to hire from targeted groups of people and the research credit incentivizing R&D
  7. Tax deductions (such as the federal write off for making architectural changes to remove barriers for the elderly and disabled)
  8. Utility rate discounts

OK, thanks.  How do you reach the conclusion that these were successful in paying for themselves? I’m highly skeptical.

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Hillary was projected to get 72% of the vote on Nov 8, 2016.  We know what happened.  https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/

There is a silent support structure for Trump.  They don't tell their neighbors.  The pollsters don't care about them.  They hide their support because it's publicly unpopular.  But they are there and they vote.

It's the same thing all over again.  Do people in key states really want Biden and more importantly his VP, that will be nowhere near as moderate as him, in charge of the country?  They do not.  As embarrassing as Trump can be, an enormous amount of Americans are better financially than they were 4 years ago even with COVID.

I think this election is like the last one.  Michigan .  Florida.  Ohio.  Wisconsin.  All will take the safe route of Trump when the time comes.  Those voters do not want their police defunded.  The don't want liberal policies.  They don't want Nancy Pelosi.

I think this will be Wash.  Rinse.  Repeat.   Same as last time.

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5 minutes ago, Brunell4MVP said:

Hillary was projected to get 72% of the vote on Nov 8, 2016.  We know what happened.  https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/

There is a silent support structure for Trump.  They don't tell their neighbors.  The pollsters don't care about them.  They hide their support because it's publicly unpopular.  But they are there and they vote.

It's the same thing all over again.  Do people in key states really want Biden and more importantly his VP, that will be nowhere near as moderate as him, in charge of the country?  They do not.  As embarrassing as Trump can be, an enormous amount of Americans are better financially than they were 4 years ago even with COVID.

I think this election is like the last one.  Michigan .  Florida.  Ohio.  Wisconsin.  All will take the safe route of Trump when the time comes.  Those voters do not want their police defunded.  The don't want liberal policies.  They don't want Nancy Pelosi.

I think this will be Wash.  Rinse.  Repeat.   Same as last time.

 

Your first sentence is incorrect. 

And there is no evidence of your second paragraph being correct.

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1 hour ago, Brunell4MVP said:

Hillary was projected to get 72% of the vote on Nov 8, 2016.  We know what happened.  https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/

There is a silent support structure for Trump.  They don't tell their neighbors.  The pollsters don't care about them.  They hide their support because it's publicly unpopular.  But they are there and they vote.

It's the same thing all over again.  Do people in key states really want Biden and more importantly his VP, that will be nowhere near as moderate as him, in charge of the country?  They do not.  As embarrassing as Trump can be, an enormous amount of Americans are better financially than they were 4 years ago even with COVID.

I think this election is like the last one.  Michigan .  Florida.  Ohio.  Wisconsin.  All will take the safe route of Trump when the time comes.  Those voters do not want their police defunded.  The don't want liberal policies.  They don't want Nancy Pelosi.

I think this will be Wash.  Rinse.  Repeat.   Same as last time.

Anecdotally...I've never really seen this.  Just about every Trump supporter I know makes it well known.  

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1 hour ago, Brunell4MVP said:

Hillary was projected to get 72% of the vote on Nov 8, 2016.  We know what happened.  https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/

There is a silent support structure for Trump.  They don't tell their neighbors.  The pollsters don't care about them.  They hide their support because it's publicly unpopular.  But they are there and they vote.

It's the same thing all over again.  Do people in key states really want Biden and more importantly his VP, that will be nowhere near as moderate as him, in charge of the country?  They do not.  As embarrassing as Trump can be, an enormous amount of Americans are better financially than they were 4 years ago even with COVID.

I think this election is like the last one.  Michigan .  Florida.  Ohio.  Wisconsin.  All will take the safe route of Trump when the time comes.  Those voters do not want their police defunded.  The don't want liberal policies.  They don't want Nancy Pelosi.

I think this will be Wash.  Rinse.  Repeat.   Same as last time.

That's why Sanders lost. 

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1 hour ago, Brunell4MVP said:

Hillary was projected to get 72% of the vote on Nov 8, 2016.  We know what happened.  https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/

There is a silent support structure for Trump.  They don't tell their neighbors.  The pollsters don't care about them.  They hide their support because it's publicly unpopular.  But they are there and they vote.

It's the same thing all over again.  Do people in key states really want Biden and more importantly his VP, that will be nowhere near as moderate as him, in charge of the country?  They do not.  As embarrassing as Trump can be, an enormous amount of Americans are better financially than they were 4 years ago even with COVID.

I think this election is like the last one.  Michigan .  Florida.  Ohio.  Wisconsin.  All will take the safe route of Trump when the time comes.  Those voters do not want their police defunded.  The don't want liberal policies.  They don't want Nancy Pelosi.

I think this will be Wash.  Rinse.  Repeat.   Same as last time.

72% of the vote.

Uh yeah no one ever predicted that.

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3 hours ago, Brunell4MVP said:

Hillary was projected to get 72% of the vote on Nov 8, 2016.  We know what happened.  https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/

There is a silent support structure for Trump.  They don't tell their neighbors.  The pollsters don't care about them.  They hide their support because it's publicly unpopular.  But they are there and they vote.

It's the same thing all over again.  Do people in key states really want Biden and more importantly his VP, that will be nowhere near as moderate as him, in charge of the country?  They do not.  As embarrassing as Trump can be, an enormous amount of Americans are better financially than they were 4 years ago even with COVID.

I think this election is like the last one.  Michigan .  Florida.  Ohio.  Wisconsin.  All will take the safe route of Trump when the time comes.  Those voters do not want their police defunded.  The don't want liberal policies.  They don't want Nancy Pelosi.

I think this will be Wash.  Rinse.  Repeat.   Same as last time.

The feds don't have the authority or jurisdiction to defund state police.  Nancy Pelosi is not running for President so far as I am aware.

Trump might squeak out Ohio.  He will lose all the others you listed.

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37 minutes ago, Opie said:

Eh....Obama probably started it....

The Daily Mail's headline reads...
JARED'S DEAL AXED.    :coffee:

I can hardly wait for "the squat" to react.

"This story is currently featured very prominently on the homepages of NYT, WaPo, WSJ, CNN, ABC News, NBC News, and others. Both CNN and MSNBC opened the 12pm hour with this news. The only cable news network that hasn't covered it yet in the 12pm hour is Fox News."

https://mobile.twitter.com/oliverdarcy/status/1293946089071157249?cxt=HHwWgoC1nfKkg_UjAAAA

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Just now, Opie said:

...and...there you have it...
...of course, I told you this 3 hours ago.

FOX may have been waiting for the REAL headline.
Now, people here can regurgitate it as their talking point.

Jeez....this is just too easy.

It is a BFD, hopefully the details will be worked out. Now, Trump might rise to just below Jimmy Carter ranking as president. Biden should've mentioned Carter by name, since he was the original middle East peace maker. 

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39 minutes ago, SoBeDad said:

It is a BFD, hopefully the details will be worked out. Now, Trump might rise to just below Jimmy Carter ranking as president. Biden should've mentioned Carter by name, since he was the original middle East peace maker. 

...but still above Obama.

Of course, all of them are.

But hey....every train needs a caboose!

Edited by Opie
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  • knowledge dropper changed the title to TRUMP TO INFINITY AND BEYOND HQ - The Great and Positive Place

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