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23 hours ago, GROOT said:

feels exactly like 2016

Yep. Hillary was about an 80% favorite too. 
 

A 4% chance that Trump wins both elections is greater than zero I suppose. 

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16 minutes ago, Kal El said:

So why wouldn't the administration take steps to curb the disease knowing this, or even listen to scientists who deal with this stuff for a living? 

The science is constantly changing. Coumo said he referred to the science when he put covid into the homes. 

I think Trump did fine and everything since is monday morning quarterbacking.

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2 minutes ago, Zow said:

Yep. Hillary was about an 80% favorite too. 
 

A 4% chance that Trump wins both elections is greater than zero I suppose. 

Your thinking seems flawed.

If you were rolling dice 2x in 2015 with the election odds for 2016 and 2020 known (and lets say "accurate")...then your 4% of rolling "Trump" would make sense.

But we know humans voting and dice rolls are not comparable.  Wining in 2016 does not decrease odds of winning in 2020 (if anything I think it would be argued that it is supportive of winning in 2020).

Thats not me predicting a Trump victory, just want to apply logic correctly and illustrating that the 4% thinking is off the mark.

 

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17 minutes ago, SoBeDad said:

Do think it's deserving or premature for Trump to be taking a victory lap? Should he be holding rallies?

I personally don't think covid-19 is as dangerous as we're led to believe. I dont think schools and businesses should be closed over this. That is doing more harm than good imo.

People going to the rallies know the risk and made the same determination. People should be allowed to assemble. Same thing with all the protests or marches. Was the women's march a political statement that endarged lives or was it applauded? 

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GREAT Analogy   


https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/10/high_noon_in_america_will_you_fight_or_hide.html


 

October 31, 2020

High Noon in America: Will You Fight or Hide?

By Jeffrey Folks

By coincidence, I was watching High Noonthis week, just as polls showed President Trump trailing Biden by 9 to10 pointsnationally.  Like the hero of High Noon, the president sometimes seems to be fighting alone.  It's high noon in America, and after the election, only one man will be left standing.

For anyone who hasn't seen it, High Noon is the story of Will Kane (Gary Cooper) and his bride, Amy (Grace Kelly), who are married just as the vicious Miller gang returns to town seeking revenge against Kane for sending their leader to prison.  Though he is free to leave town, Marshall Kane decides that he must remain until the next day, when the new marshal takes over.  A devout Quaker, Amy declares that she will leave her husband if he decides to fight.

Though painful, Will Kane's position is not impossible.  His path is clear because he lives by an unwavering code of values.  He remains in town to defend his fellow citizens, even the many who don't appreciate his efforts.  When everyone abandons him, he faces overwhelming odds — four to one — with only the help of his wife, who returns without his knowledge and saves his life in the shootout.

President Trump faces the same overwhelming odds.  The political establishment, the Deep State, practically the entire media, academe, unions, minorities, environmentalists, foreign nations, and special interests of all stripes have piled on, outraged that the president would actually stand up for ordinary Americans.  They thought Trump's promise to "drain the swamp" was just words — the usual political rhetoric that would be forgotten as soon as the candidate took office.  That's what Joe Biden —" friend of the working man" — has been doing for 47 years.  But President Trump is not a typical politician, and the establishment hate him for it because he exposes what they are.

The question is whether the American people will back the president by getting out to vote.  In High Noon, a crucial point was that the citizenry of the fictional Hadleyville were too timid and afraid to join in the town's defense.  Now is the time to defend America, and the only way to do so is by casting a vote for President Trump. 

Believing itself to be so superior, the left now routinely resorts to tactics of suppressing news and opinion, lying, shoving, blocking access, rioting, and other actions of the mob.  These are the tactics of the brownshirts and the blackshirts of the 1930s.

Notice that nearly all the verbal abuse, lying, shoving, and rioting comes from the left.  Obama's nomination of Sonia Sotomayor did not spark a bitter confirmation hearing or the period of rioting, confrontation of senators, and media barrage that the Kavanaugh hearing did — or the threat to delay the confirmation vote and subsequent boycott of the hearings that the Barrett nomination did.  Yet, in the judgement of many, Judge Kavanaugh and Judge Barrett were better qualified and less partisan than Judge Sotomayor.  Anyone who has read Sotomayor's autobiography, My Beloved World, knows that she applies an ideological perspective rooted in a sense of youthful victimization.  And yet conservatives did not resort to mob tactics in opposing Sotomayor's nomination.  In fact, nine Republicans voted to confirm her.    

Most Americans, and the Republicans who represent them, cling to the values of an older America in which political differences are resolved by democratic means and in which civility is still possible.  They believe in the Golden Rule — how many on the left even know what that is?  — and in patriotism, God, and family.  They believe that capitalism works, but they are not out to destroy those who don't.  They have never accepted the credo "by any means necessary," one that the left has long embraced.  They are a different kind of human being than what exists on the left in the coastal cities and the university towns.

Now the left is out to reverse the Trump victory of 2016 and erase the accomplishments of Trump's presidency, which they see as a minor setback on the relentless march toward collectivism.  Like the Miller gang, who believe they have a right to terrorize the sheepish citizenry of Hadleyville, the left believes that it has a right to permanent rule — because it is "better," more righteous, and more compassionate than the right.  In fact, the left is merely more ruthless, selfish, and power-hungry.

When Will Kane stepped out to face the Miller gang, everyone knew how it must end.  The 2020 election offers a similar choice between good and evil.  President Trump is running not to enrich himself or his family.  He is running not so that his son can earn huge "access" fees while performing no actual labor.  The president is not a career politician who wishes to add eight more damaging years to a record of 47 years of failure.  He does not seek permanent rule for his party by undermining his successor's administration.  He seeks to reduce the burden of government on ordinary Americans and to ensure the freedom of all citizens.

At the end of High Noon, those who abandoned him now gather round and praise Will Kane, but Kane tosses his badge in the dust, and he and Amy ride away in disgust.  His neighbors turned their backs on him at the crucial hour, and they've lost his respect.  

Today, it's time for Americans to come to the president's aid.  Don't abandon this extraordinary president, who has done so much to defend our national culture.  The citizens of Hadleyville sat in their houses with drapes pulled and doors locked until the contest was over.  Don't hide yourself away during this great presidential contest.  Your most important responsibility as a citizen is to vote.

It is high noon in America, and today one champion stands between us and socialism.  This time, we can't let our champion down.  Don't let President Trump fight this battle alone.  Stand by the president who's defending you.

 

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1 minute ago, Max Power said:

The science is constantly changing. Coumo said he referred to the science when he put covid into the homes. 

I think Trump did fine and everything since is monday morning quarterbacking.

I think he abdicated all responsibility for the pandemic response, constantly contradicted the science, which is going to change when researching new things, suggested medically unsound practices which he later tried to say was "sarcasm," or "a joke," has mocked and is still mocking people who wear masks, keeps claiming that there will be a vaccine soon, or that we're rounding the corner as cases and deaths are climbing again, and even though he got infected, still hasn't changed his behavior, including holding rallies that have in several cases turned into Covid superspreader events. That's not Monday morning quarterbacking. That's watching a man who is in way over his head flail about.

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As in 2016, I went to the polls today with the intention of leaving the top of the ticket blank. And as in 2016, I left having voted for Trump. I actually closed the folder and started to walk towards the machine before going back to stare at the ballot again and ultimately make the mark. While I think my vote is meaningless here in NYC, I didn't want to be someone that couldn't make a decision. I rationalized that if I was in a swing state, I would have voted for Trump. I'm still torn on my decision though and don't feel particularly happy about it. I hope I don't regret it.

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13 minutes ago, Max Power said:

The science is constantly changing. Coumo said he referred to the science when he put covid into the homes. 

I think Trump did fine and everything since is monday morning quarterbacking.

Wow. Just wow. Unbelievable.

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7 minutes ago, Kal El said:

I think he abdicated all responsibility for the pandemic response, constantly contradicted the science, which is going to change when researching new things, suggested medically unsound practices which he later tried to say was "sarcasm," or "a joke," has mocked and is still mocking people who wear masks, keeps claiming that there will be a vaccine soon, or that we're rounding the corner as cases and deaths are climbing again, and even though he got infected, still hasn't changed his behavior, including holding rallies that have in several cases turned into Covid superspreader events. That's not Monday morning quarterbacking. That's watching a man who is in way over his head flail about.

MMQB at its finest, but we can disagree.

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1 minute ago, Max Power said:

MMQB at its finest, but we can disagree.

There's no such thing as MMQB in this situation, because the game isn't over. This utter failure of a response is happening in real time, and it's not getting better any time soon. Now Covid will have an entire winter to get to work.

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22 minutes ago, jamny said:

I'm still torn on my decision though and don't feel particularly happy about it. I hope I don't regret it.

Not that you’re looking for my opinion or affirmation but good job making a decision.  I’m not a fan at all of the leave it blank position.  Feels like a cop-out to me and every voice needs to be heard.  One question, what would make the bolded true?

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14 minutes ago, Kal El said:

There's no such thing as MMQB in this situation, because the game isn't over. This utter failure of a response is happening in real time, and it's not getting better any time soon. Now Covid will have an entire winter to get to work.

If the historic low flu season continues we will be fine and our children are actually safer.

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17 hours ago, General Malaise said:

Agreed.  Dems picked the most milquetoast candidate possible.  Still, you can get Trump at +145 on the betting lines.  Thinking of using my HELOC which had a zero balance and putting $100k on Donald.  Free $45K!  That pays for my sons first year of college (in state). 

You guys loading up on this opportunity?  Not as good as 2016, but free money is quite nice. 

How many years for $145K?  

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4 minutes ago, Max Power said:

If the historic low flu season continues we will be fine and our children are actually safer.

Use of mask and social distancing is what’s creating these low numbers for the record, showing once again it works.  Just imagine if this was pushed and actually supported from the top how effective these 2 simple things could have been. 

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10 minutes ago, Max Power said:

If the historic low flu season continues we will be fine and our children are actually safer.

In less than a year, Covid has lapped the worst flu season on record by over 4 times, and we're still here watching Trump fail at every turn. Again, the non sequitur has failed. Stay on topic.

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4 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

Not that you’re looking for my opinion or affirmation but good job making a decision.  I’m not a fan at all of the leave it blank position.  Feels like a cop-out to me and every voice needs to be heard.  One question, what would make the bolded true?

Good question.

I hope I never have an example. My biggest fear is how he would handle a military conflict. 

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7 minutes ago, 36Kevon said:

How many years for $145K?  

I'll have to crunch the numbers but with my son's ACT score and his current GPA, the state schools will award him a great deal of scholarship.  He's also earned 16 credits via AP testing, so I may not need $145K to get him all the way through...unless he wants to go to private school, in which case, I'm hooped. 

But it won't matter because Trump is going to win in a landslide and the stock market will explode.  I might even be able to retire one day!

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2 minutes ago, Widbil83 said:

Monster crowds lined up for the President in Pennsylvania right now.

https://twitter.com/kayleighmcenany/status/1322575912450347009?s=21

Stanford just put out a Covid/Trump-rally analysis report attributing 30,000 new cases and 700 deaths directly to his rallies.  Monster crowds dying because of his self-centered narcissism.  

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3 minutes ago, Prinefan said:

Very poorly.  Even his military leaders are afraid of how dangerous he is.  Most are endorsing Biden for that reason.  It's like giving a loaded gun to a five year old.

That's an apt description of the situation now.

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7 hours ago, General Malaise said:

That is terrible!!!!

 

I'd take 7-1 on a Biden victory if you're up for it.  Charity of your choice in the off chance I win.  

your on.  I take Trump to win-you take Biden.  $50.

I get 7-1 odds.

 

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38 minutes ago, General Malaise said:

I'll have to crunch the numbers but with my son's ACT score and his current GPA, the state schools will award him a great deal of scholarship.  He's also earned 16 credits via AP testing, so I may not need $145K to get him all the way through...unless he wants to go to private school, in which case, I'm hooped. 

But it won't matter because Trump is going to win in a landslide and the stock market will explode.  I might even be able to retire one day!

I wouldn't recommend anyone mortgage their house for any bet (no matter how sure of a thing) if they dont even understand how the math works. 

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2 hours ago, knowledge dropper said:


GREAT Analogy   


https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/10/high_noon_in_america_will_you_fight_or_hide.html


 

October 31, 2020

High Noon in America: Will You Fight or Hide?

By Jeffrey Folks

By coincidence, I was watching High Noonthis week, just as polls showed President Trump trailing Biden by 9 to10 pointsnationally.  Like the hero of High Noon, the president sometimes seems to be fighting alone.  It's high noon in America, and after the election, only one man will be left standing.

For anyone who hasn't seen it, High Noon is the story of Will Kane (Gary Cooper) and his bride, Amy (Grace Kelly), who are married just as the vicious Miller gang returns to town seeking revenge against Kane for sending their leader to prison.  Though he is free to leave town, Marshall Kane decides that he must remain until the next day, when the new marshal takes over.  A devout Quaker, Amy declares that she will leave her husband if he decides to fight.

Though painful, Will Kane's position is not impossible.  His path is clear because he lives by an unwavering code of values.  He remains in town to defend his fellow citizens, even the many who don't appreciate his efforts.  When everyone abandons him, he faces overwhelming odds — four to one — with only the help of his wife, who returns without his knowledge and saves his life in the shootout.

President Trump faces the same overwhelming odds.  The political establishment, the Deep State, practically the entire media, academe, unions, minorities, environmentalists, foreign nations, and special interests of all stripes have piled on, outraged that the president would actually stand up for ordinary Americans.  They thought Trump's promise to "drain the swamp" was just words — the usual political rhetoric that would be forgotten as soon as the candidate took office.  That's what Joe Biden —" friend of the working man" — has been doing for 47 years.  But President Trump is not a typical politician, and the establishment hate him for it because he exposes what they are.

The question is whether the American people will back the president by getting out to vote.  In High Noon, a crucial point was that the citizenry of the fictional Hadleyville were too timid and afraid to join in the town's defense.  Now is the time to defend America, and the only way to do so is by casting a vote for President Trump. 

Believing itself to be so superior, the left now routinely resorts to tactics of suppressing news and opinion, lying, shoving, blocking access, rioting, and other actions of the mob.  These are the tactics of the brownshirts and the blackshirts of the 1930s.

Notice that nearly all the verbal abuse, lying, shoving, and rioting comes from the left.  Obama's nomination of Sonia Sotomayor did not spark a bitter confirmation hearing or the period of rioting, confrontation of senators, and media barrage that the Kavanaugh hearing did — or the threat to delay the confirmation vote and subsequent boycott of the hearings that the Barrett nomination did.  Yet, in the judgement of many, Judge Kavanaugh and Judge Barrett were better qualified and less partisan than Judge Sotomayor.  Anyone who has read Sotomayor's autobiography, My Beloved World, knows that she applies an ideological perspective rooted in a sense of youthful victimization.  And yet conservatives did not resort to mob tactics in opposing Sotomayor's nomination.  In fact, nine Republicans voted to confirm her.    

Most Americans, and the Republicans who represent them, cling to the values of an older America in which political differences are resolved by democratic means and in which civility is still possible.  They believe in the Golden Rule — how many on the left even know what that is?  — and in patriotism, God, and family.  They believe that capitalism works, but they are not out to destroy those who don't.  They have never accepted the credo "by any means necessary," one that the left has long embraced.  They are a different kind of human being than what exists on the left in the coastal cities and the university towns.

Now the left is out to reverse the Trump victory of 2016 and erase the accomplishments of Trump's presidency, which they see as a minor setback on the relentless march toward collectivism.  Like the Miller gang, who believe they have a right to terrorize the sheepish citizenry of Hadleyville, the left believes that it has a right to permanent rule — because it is "better," more righteous, and more compassionate than the right.  In fact, the left is merely more ruthless, selfish, and power-hungry.

When Will Kane stepped out to face the Miller gang, everyone knew how it must end.  The 2020 election offers a similar choice between good and evil.  President Trump is running not to enrich himself or his family.  He is running not so that his son can earn huge "access" fees while performing no actual labor.  The president is not a career politician who wishes to add eight more damaging years to a record of 47 years of failure.  He does not seek permanent rule for his party by undermining his successor's administration.  He seeks to reduce the burden of government on ordinary Americans and to ensure the freedom of all citizens.

At the end of High Noon, those who abandoned him now gather round and praise Will Kane, but Kane tosses his badge in the dust, and he and Amy ride away in disgust.  His neighbors turned their backs on him at the crucial hour, and they've lost his respect.  

Today, it's time for Americans to come to the president's aid.  Don't abandon this extraordinary president, who has done so much to defend our national culture.  The citizens of Hadleyville sat in their houses with drapes pulled and doors locked until the contest was over.  Don't hide yourself away during this great presidential contest.  Your most important responsibility as a citizen is to vote.

It is high noon in America, and today one champion stands between us and socialism.  This time, we can't let our champion down.  Don't let President Trump fight this battle alone.  Stand by the president who's defending you.

 

This is the worst thing I've ever read.

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1 hour ago, Max Power said:

I personally don't think covid-19 is as dangerous as we're led to believe. I dont think schools and businesses should be closed over this. That is doing more harm than good imo.

People going to the rallies know the risk and made the same determination. People should be allowed to assemble. Same thing with all the protests or marches. Was the women's march a political statement that endarged lives or was it applauded? 

Should Trump have required people who attended his rallies to wear masks, instead of practically discouraging them in the beginning (RIP Herman Cain), or simply handing them out for more recent rallies? Most political marches are in a different category, they're organic, grassroots up,  unlike a Trump rally which starts at the top. Further, the organizers of these rallies, based on the "invites" I saw in the Miami area, ask protesters to bring masks and to refrain from violence.  My daughter who's been to several protest marches in both Miami and LA says mask compliance is 95+% in the marches she's been been involved with.

Question: Do you require passengers in your car to wear seatbelts?

We are dealing with COVID better now than in the beginning (early diagnosis, less intubation, etc) and I think some states should open more quickly if they expand testing and isolation, mainly to reduce multi-generational spread. But, look at the graphs from Covid Actnow from South Dakota and tell me if you think we're "rounding the final turn." Deaths, which are a lagging metric, look like they're increasing exponentially.

https://www.covidactnow.org/us/south_dakota-sd?s=1226301

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1 hour ago, dkp993 said:

Use of mask and social distancing is what’s creating these low numbers for the record, showing once again it works.  Just imagine if this was pushed and actually supported from the top how effective these 2 simple things could have been. 

Support for mask wearing in the US has on average been as high as other industrialized nations (and a good deal higher than some) if you believe this chart

https://mobile.twitter.com/yinonw/status/1321177405457743872/photo/1

I'm not sure how many people make their mask wearing decisions specifically based on what Trump does, I wouldnt think statistically many, maybe enough to bump the 80% to 85%?  It makes for a good political talking point, but the narrative that Trump caused the US to not wear masks (at least at a meaningfully different rate than other nations) seems sketchy.

 

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4 minutes ago, djmich said:

Support for mask wearing in the US has on average been as high as other industrialized nations (and a good deal higher than some) if you believe this chart

https://mobile.twitter.com/yinonw/status/1321177405457743872/photo/1

I'm not sure how many people make their mask wearing decisions specifically based on what Trump does, I wouldnt think statistically many, maybe enough to bump the 80% to 85%?  It makes for a good political talking point, but the narrative that Trump caused the US to not wear masks (at least at a meaningfully different rate than other nations) seems sketchy.

 

I never said nor claimed “caused”. But it’s undeniable he has a very strong following of people and if he had been very strong on facemasks the percentage of wearers would absolutely be higher. I know it’s a narrative a lot of people don’t like to say but people do follow leaders hence the term “leader”.  

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5 minutes ago, djmich said:

Support for mask wearing in the US has on average been as high as other industrialized nations (and a good deal higher than some) if you believe this chart

https://mobile.twitter.com/yinonw/status/1321177405457743872/photo/1

I'm not sure how many people make their mask wearing decisions specifically based on what Trump does, I wouldnt think statistically many, maybe enough to bump the 80% to 85%?  It makes for a good political talking point, but the narrative that Trump caused the US to not wear masks (at least at a meaningfully different rate than other nations) seems sketchy.

 

I've lost count of how many Trump supporters during interviews point out that because he doesn't wear one, why should they?  Causing many more deaths than necessary.

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4 minutes ago, Prinefan said:

I've lost count of how many Trump supporters during interviews point out that because he doesn't wear one, why should they?  Causing many more deaths than necessary.

I appreciate the anecdotes and Im sure there are people that don’t wear a mask because trump didn’t, and only because trump didn’t.

However, if the data is the chart is accurate US mask wearing in public is essentially as high as other nations where the leader supports masks or has even implement a national mask wearing mandate.  This would seem to indicate the anecdotes are not statistically significant or at least not as much as implied.

Does the data lie?

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2 minutes ago, djmich said:

I appreciate the anecdotes and Im sure there are people that don’t wear a mask because trump didn’t, and only because trump didn’t.

However, if the data is the chart is accurate US mask wearing in public is essentially as high as other nations where the leader supports masks or has even implement a national mask wearing mandate.  This would seem to indicate the anecdotes are not statistically significant or at least not as much as implied.

Does the data lie?

You know what would be nice?  Not to have to try and prove anything because he just did it. 🤷‍♂️     But I will leave it at that and respect the thread.  

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1 minute ago, djmich said:

I appreciate the anecdotes and Im sure there are people that don’t wear a mask because trump didn’t, and only because trump didn’t.

However, if the data is the chart is accurate US mask wearing in public is essentially as high as other nations where the leader supports masks or has even implement a national mask wearing mandate.  This would seem to indicate the anecdotes are not statistically significant or at least not as much as implied.

Does the data lie?

You're trusting a chart on someone's twitter account for your evidence.  That's like trusting what our President says on his.  No thanks.  I prefer trusting science, doctors, and the people who actually know what they're talking about (not saying you, just the data on a random twitter account).

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1 minute ago, dkp993 said:

You know what would be nice?  Not to have to try and prove anything because he just did it. 🤷‍♂️     But I will leave it at that and respect the thread.  

Hey dkp.  I wish he did it more often too because I think it’s the right thing to do.  That doesn’t make data any less relevant though.

Have a good one.

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4 hours ago, djmich said:

I appreciate the anecdotes and Im sure there are people that don’t wear a mask because trump didn’t, and only because trump didn’t.

However, if the data is the chart is accurate US mask wearing in public is essentially as high as other nations where the leader supports masks or has even implement a national mask wearing mandate.  This would seem to indicate the anecdotes are not statistically significant or at least not as much as implied.

Does the data lie?

there is a Danish study being  suppressed by the major publicati0ons that will show masks are less than super duper in stopping the transmission of the virus

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5 hours ago, General Malaise said:

Even if it's a sure thing? 

You said +145 nets you a free 45K if it's a sure thing. That's not how math works.  I wouldnt advise anymore mortgaging their home for a bet if you dont even understand how the math works. 

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  • knowledge dropper changed the title to TRUMP TO INFINITY AND BEYOND HQ - The Great and Positive Place

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