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TRUMP TO INFINITY AND BEYOND HQ - The Great and Positive Place (9 Viewers)

timschochet said:
This feels like a college argument about atheism: 

There is no god. 
Can you prove it? 
Can you prove there is a god? 
Can you prove there isn’t? 

Round and round it goes. But in the case of this election, it’s not a question of fraud or no fraud. It’s a question of whether there was enough fraud to have a significant impact on the result. For that, the proof must be provided by the accuser. The defender has no responsibility whatsoever unless the accuser can demonstrate credible evidence, and so far none has been shown. 
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There definitely hasn’t been any credible evidence presented yet, to my knowledge 

 
KarmaPolice said:
This is what people are basing it on?  Really?
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Well yeah, social media evidence is all I’ve seen because I’m just a guy. 
 

Trump has evidence he claims will be presented tonight on Hannity, so we will see what that is.

 
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  • Thinking
Reactions: JAA
Is there a list of debunked claims.  So far, I think theres.....

1) SharpieGate II - Arizona

2) The 3000 - Nevada

3) ANOTHER....false Project Vertias stunt - PA

4) Rudy G. And The Case Of Missing Poll Watchers - PA

5) 185K To Nuttin:  How Joe Biden Scored 185K Votes One After Another - MI

 
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shader said:
Well yeah, social media evidence is all I’ve seen because I’m just a guy. 
 

Trump has evidence he claims will be presented tonight on Hannity, so we will see what that is.
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And we are right back to a main debate point in the "healing and moving on" thread.  

 
shader said:
I don’t know how I got in this thread either.  But you’re wrong either way. Social media is full of evidence. The question is whether any of it will stick.  To say “there is literally no evidence” is simply an untrue statement. 
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Check out the voter fraud thread.  The “evidence” - which is really just random stuff that has been made up - has been debunked over and over.  If I came into this thread and wrote “person X is a pedophile” that isn’t evidence.  It’s an assertion.  
 

There isn’t a single piece of evidence that has been provided that demonstrates fraud thus far. Could there be fraud?  Sure.  Could aliens be living in my garage?  Sure.  I haven’t seen any evidence of either one so far.  
 

Anyway, I’m leaving this thread and taking it to the voter fraud thread.  My apologies again for infringing on this peaceful sanctuary.  It wasn’t my intent before.

 
Max Power said:
MSM is the major networks and newspapers. Big tech is Twitter, Facebook and YouTube.

Big tech is full on sensoring fraud allegations and suspending accounts that go against the current narrative. There is a reason Parlor has become so popular in the last week.

The Fox News calling of Arizona was horrific. Voters were still in line when Fox called it. That decision has resulted in a mass exodus in its core viewership. 

YouTube is deleting videos user upload claiming to be exposing fraud. That is unacceptable. We are adults and should be allowed to watch or listen to whatever we want and make our own judgements. I dont need big brother.

Twitter is putting dispute labels on everything. They have gone overboard and are even disputing facts.

A guy like Jimmy Dore is as liberal as they come and does have an anti-media bias at times, but even he can see it. 

It's a bad look and a bad look that a large portion of the country disagrees with.
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Thanks for the reply.   Follow up questions:

Does the bolded apply to anything over X number of views/subcriptions?  Ie is everything lumped in here for you and on the same level - BBC, NYT, MSNBC, FOX, etc, etc?

Can you give me examples of what Youtube and Twitter is deleting, and what facts they are disputing?

I've listening to a lot of the Tristan Harris podcast and other like it about social media.   What I understand the battle to be is that they don't seem to have control (or want to control?) over their recommendation algorithms, and that's how you get situations like anorexia videos being recommended by the millions when girls watch a diet video.  It's not as much about the video itself, just that the out of control AI amplifies stuff like that waaaaaay too much because the extremes are what keeps us on the sites.   Again, my understanding is that they are trying to crack down on bad info and extreme videos because they get amplified too much through their algorithms.  

 
:excited:               !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!DEBUNKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 
KarmaPolice said:
Thanks for the reply.   Follow up questions:

Does the bolded apply to anything over X number of views/subcriptions?  Ie is everything lumped in here for you and on the same level - BBC, NYT, MSNBC, FOX, etc, etc?

Can you give me examples of what Youtube and Twitter is deleting, and what facts they are disputing?

I've listening to a lot of the Tristan Harris podcast and other like it about social media.   What I understand the battle to be is that they don't seem to have control (or want to control?) over their recommendation algorithms, and that's how you get situations like anorexia videos being recommended by the millions when girls watch a diet video.  It's not as much about the video itself, just that the out of control AI amplifies stuff like that waaaaaay too much because the extremes are what keeps us on the sites.   Again, my understanding is that they are trying to crack down on bad info and extreme videos because they get amplified too much through their algorithms.  
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I personally don't assign an x value to who I'd consider MSM. I look at like "would a non political person know this source?" My mother isnt information savvy. She's heard of ABC, CNN, NYT, WAPO, Fox News and the likes. She wouldnt know who Politico or Real Clear Politics level of media are. 

So here is an example of a Trump tweet where the information is disputed. Its Rick Grenell making a statement on allegations of fraud in Nevada. Rick had to get on twitter to ask what was factually wrong with his statement.

https://twitter.com/RichardGrenell/status/1326000952856309760?s=20

Here is a video that sounds like poll training not being on the up and up. Posted to Rumble after being removed from YouTube. It does now appear to be reposted to YouTube as of two day ago.

https://rumble.com/vaxwob-detroit-leaks-video-was-taken-down-from-screwtube.html?mref=23gga&mrefc=2

Conservative twitter is just something you would have had to experience. Videos posted for that segment of the population seem to get taken down quickly. Plenty of posts out there retweeting deleted content. It's the reason Parlor has taken off.

If this is big tech and MSM trying to fight misinformation, they are doing it wrong. Dont deleted it, counter it with substance. The censorship is unamerican. 

I think they are even disputing claims when someone says Joe Biden is not president elect yet as misinformation when a logical case can be made that he shouldnt hold that title yet. 

 
Max Power said:
I personally don't assign an x value to who I'd consider MSM. I look at like "would a non political person know this source?" My mother isnt information savvy. She's heard of ABC, CNN, NYT, WAPO, Fox News and the likes. She wouldnt know who Politico or Real Clear Politics level of media are. 

So here is an example of a Trump tweet where the information is disputed. Its Rick Grenell making a statement on allegations of fraud in Nevada. Rick had to get on twitter to ask what was factually wrong with his statement.

https://twitter.com/RichardGrenell/status/1326000952856309760?s=20

Here is a video that sounds like poll training not being on the up and up. Posted to Rumble after being removed from YouTube. It does now appear to be reposted to YouTube as of two day ago.

https://rumble.com/vaxwob-detroit-leaks-video-was-taken-down-from-screwtube.html?mref=23gga&mrefc=2

Conservative twitter is just something you would have had to experience. Videos posted for that segment of the population seem to get taken down quickly. Plenty of posts out there retweeting deleted content. It's the reason Parlor has taken off.

If this is big tech and MSM trying to fight misinformation, they are doing it wrong. Dont deleted it, counter it with substance. The censorship is unamerican. 

I think they are even disputing claims when someone says Joe Biden is not president elect yet as misinformation when a logical case can be made that he shouldnt hold that title yet. 
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Wanted to say thanks to both you and @KarmaPolicefor having a real discussion. 

 
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dkp993 said:
Again  I’m all about if there’s something illegal going on nail it, but it’s funny to hear the right talk about whistleblowers after Vindman.  He didn’t get one ounce the leeway your giving this.  
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It goes both ways. You know how this tango works. 

And we had to hear vindman out. Hopefully this guy gets the same. 

 
Max Power said:
It goes both ways. You know how this tango works. 

And we had to hear vindman out. Hopefully this guy gets the same. 
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Agreed.  It would just be nice if people could at the very least be consistent.  We are seeing none of that ironically right now.  

 
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Max Power said:
Just a little more from the whistleblower interview.

https://twitter.com/JamesOKeefeIII/status/1326323334800437248?s=20
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I don't think you are using the term whistleblower properly. A mail carrier talking to Project Veritas does not qualify as a whistleblower. 

And for what it's worth, Lt. Col. Vindman was a member of the military and a career public servant who was testifying in front of Congress, which just feels a tad different, but he wasn't a whistleblower either. 

 
Max Power said:
What is in dispute here? 

Read this sworn affidavit from GOP poll challenger, and former Assistant AG for Michigan, Zachary Larsen, on the alleged fraud he observed in Detroit. This is Third World stuff, and every American should be outraged if these allegations are true https://greatlakesjc.org/wp-content/upl
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The commentary that "This is Third World Stuff" - I'm not sure if that's it, but comments under the original tweet state that might be the reason for the disputed tag. I don't know.

I asked what unnecessary fact check means and what necessary fact check means. Also note that they didn't take the tweet down, they simply tagged it as disputed. Which it is. What's the problem with that?

 
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Max Power said:
What is in dispute here? 

Read this sworn affidavit from GOP poll challenger, and former Assistant AG for Michigan, Zachary Larsen, on the alleged fraud he observed in Detroit. This is Third World stuff, and every American should be outraged if these allegations are true https://greatlakesjc.org/wp-content/upl
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Looks like the conspiracy grows.  That's a "PAGE NOT FOUND" link.  Big Tech strikes again.  

 
Gr00vus said:
The commentary that "This is Third World Stuff" - I'm not sure if that's it, but comments under the original tweet state that might be the reason for the disputed tag. I don't know.

I asked what unnecessary fact check means and what necessary fact check means. Also note that they didn't take the tweet down, they simply tagged it as disputed. Which it is. What's the problem with that?
Click to expand...
Disputed by who though? Who is twitter sourcing to dispute the content of an affidavit? What proof is twitter using to say those claims aren't true? 

The tweet says alleged fraud. Which it is accurate. 

I just pointed out it was uncalled for. 

 
TheMagus said:
I don't think you are using the term whistleblower properly. A mail carrier talking to Project Veritas does not qualify as a whistleblower. 

And for what it's worth, Lt. Col. Vindman was a member of the military and a career public servant who was testifying in front of Congress, which just feels a tad different, but he wasn't a whistleblower either. 
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It's a postal worker claiming the USPS was adjusting dates on the ballots. I think that falls under whistleblower.

But if not whistleblower, what should he be referred to as?

 
Max Power said:
I personally don't assign an x value to who I'd consider MSM. I look at like "would a non political person know this source?" My mother isnt information savvy. She's heard of ABC, CNN, NYT, WAPO, Fox News and the likes. She wouldnt know who Politico or Real Clear Politics level of media are. 

So here is an example of a Trump tweet where the information is disputed. Its Rick Grenell making a statement on allegations of fraud in Nevada. Rick had to get on twitter to ask what was factually wrong with his statement.

https://twitter.com/RichardGrenell/status/1326000952856309760?s=20

Here is a video that sounds like poll training not being on the up and up. Posted to Rumble after being removed from YouTube. It does now appear to be reposted to YouTube as of two day ago.

https://rumble.com/vaxwob-detroit-leaks-video-was-taken-down-from-screwtube.html?mref=23gga&mrefc=2

Conservative twitter is just something you would have had to experience. Videos posted for that segment of the population seem to get taken down quickly. Plenty of posts out there retweeting deleted content. It's the reason Parlor has taken off.

If this is big tech and MSM trying to fight misinformation, they are doing it wrong. Dont deleted it, counter it with substance. The censorship is unamerican. 

I think they are even disputing claims when someone says Joe Biden is not president elect yet as misinformation when a logical case can be made that he shouldnt hold that title yet. 
Click to expand...
Thanks for the replies.  

As far as the bolded, I honestly don't know what the answer is.   Just curious - have you watched The Social Dilemma or listed to the Tristan Harris podcast?  Like I posted, from those talks and interviews, my understanding is they aren't trying to delete and censor so much as they are battling their recommended algorithms.  They suggest ways they think services like FB and Youtube could combat those issues.   The example that stuck in my head since I have a very young daughter was the the one I posted about the anorexia videos.   (again, this is my understandng..)  It's not so much they would delete something like that solely because of it's content.  It's more that the way the sites work and make their money, it's all about what keeps people on Youtube the longest.  Just so happens that anorexia videos are something that demographic will watch a lot of, so it's recommended a lot - even just on "normal" searches like diet and exercise videos.   That makes it amplify the anorexia videos way more than healthy exercise videos.      

Not 100% sure how that applies to what you are seeing (I am not on social media much at all), but my take was it was similar and they are really quick to flag or take down stuff that is misinformation.  Not because they are censoring, but because that misinformation is shared, enraging, sucks us into rabbit holes, and keeps us on those sites and amplifies that message vs a counter message.  

 
Max Power said:
Disputed by who though? Who is twitter sourcing to dispute the content of an affidavit? What proof is twitter using to say those claims aren't true? 

The tweet says alleged fraud. Which it is accurate. 

I just pointed out it was uncalled for. 
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I don't think they're disputing the content of the affidavit. I think they're disputing jumping right to assuming fraud has been proven (based solely on the issuance of the affidavit) as intimated in the "Third World Country" comment of the post they tagged. I'm pretty sure if the tweet just said something like "hey check out this affidavit of fraud allegations" no disputed tag gets applied.

Also, it's strange to complain about "Big Tech" censoringfree speech (which I'm not even sure they're legally bound to guarantee by the way) when you would probably not have even known about this affidavit, or at least not known about it so quickly, if it hadn't been posted on "Big Tech" in the first place, tag or no tag.

You said:

If this is big tech and MSM trying to fight misinformation, they are doing it wrong. Dont deleted it, counter it with substance. The censorship is unamerican. 
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I don't know if this affidavit tweet is your example of that, but it seems like twitter did exactly what you suggest here. The tweet didn't get deleted, they just put a tag on it that takes you to counter arguments.

 
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Max Power said:
It's a postal worker claiming the USPS was adjusting dates on the ballots. I think that falls under whistleblower.

But if not whistleblower, what should he be referred to as?
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Some random dude who talked to James O'Keefe (instead of the feds or any legitimate government agency) and then when pressed by actual federal investigators retracted his story, then unretracted his story again while talking to James O'Keefe?

 
Gr00vus said:
I don't think they're disputing the content of the affidavit. I think they're disputing jumping right to assuming fraud has been proven (based solely on the issuance of the affidavit) as intimated in the "Third World Country" comment of the post they tagged. I'm pretty sure if the tweet just said something like "hey check out this affidavit of fraud allegations" no disputed tag gets applied.

Also, it's strange to complain about "Big Tech" squelching free speech (which I'm not even sure they're legally bound to guarantee by the way) when you would probably not have even known about this affidavit, or at least not known about it so quickly, if it hadn't been posted on "Big Tech" in the first place, tag or no tag.
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The post literally says alleged. They tagged it because they didnt like it. 

 
TheMagus said:
Some random dude who talked to James O'Keefe (instead of the feds or any legitimate government agency) and then when pressed by actual federal investigators retracted his story, then unretracted his story again while talking to James O'Keefe?
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The rumored story is that they got him to sign something he wasnt sure about and then went to the press that he rescinded his claim. 

He still stands by his claim. He also said he is in contact with Trump's legal team. 

I understand being skeptical though. PV will release more audio from the interview tomorrow. 

 
Max Power said:
The rumored story is that they got him to sign something he wasnt sure about and then went to the press that he rescinded his claim. 

He still stands by his claim. He also said he is in contact with Trump's legal team. 

I understand being skeptical though. PV will release more audio from the interview tomorrow. 
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I posted this in the voter fraud thread, but you do know who James O'Keefe and Project Veritas are, right?

https://www.fox9.com/news/subject-of-project-veritas-voter-fraud-story-says-he-was-offered-bribe

I mean you are a smart guy, Max. Don't go down this rabbit hole. 

 
gianmarco said:
He's not worth hearing out.
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It was the same with the Birther stuff: “I’m not saying it’s true and if it turns out to be bunk, OK, but it’s at least worth investigating.” Same with Pizzagate and dozens of other conspiracy theories. There’s always a way out in case it doesn’t come to anything. 

 
Max Power said:
Claims of voter fraud should be taken seriously. I'm sorry most people here disagree. 
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Voter fraud should be taken seriously, and actual evidence should and I would say likely will get investigated.

Should claims that the earth is flat be taken seriously? And if the answer is "no", what exactly are you trying so hard to hide?

 
BoltBacker said:
Voter fraud should be taken seriously, and actual evidence should and I would say likely will get investigated.

Should claims that the earth is flat be taken seriously? And if the answer is "no", what exactly are you trying so hard to hide?
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So the thing is people are making sworn affidavit claims and the rush by the media is to discredit them as soon as possible.

Once the claim is made the investigation follows. Instead we get people yelling "no evidence" while the process is ongoing. 

Dont you think the media should inform people that the guy who they said recanted his story is denying that claim today?

 
Max Power said:
So the thing is people are making sworn affidavit claims and the rush by the media is to discredit them as soon as possible.

Once the claim is made the investigation follows. Instead we get people yelling "no evidence" while the process is ongoing. 

Dont you think the media should inform people that the guy who they said recanted his story is denying that claim today?
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I think the media should report any evidence he has and it should be thoroughly investigated. Again, once the claim has been made by anyone that the earth is flat are you going to dismiss them or will you do a thorough investigation. I am not joking, I can find a person on the internet that will claim to you that the earth is flat. How can you NOT investigate his claim. Maybe I am not making this clear. He is making a claim.

 
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