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3 hours ago, AAABatteries said:

Retroactive to 2016?  I don't think Trump is illegitimate, just incompetent.

 

In 2016, no one thought Trump could win. All the pundits came out and said it would be Clinton in a landslide. There would be no reason for elements of the DNC to broker cheating of the Dominion system in key areas ( the disconnect here is there needs to be cheating in every single state to justify questioning the process, clearly there were going to be a few key battleground states and some potential swing states where the bulk of cheating, if it was to happen, would have been focused )  during that election cycle.

Once the DNC had to admit there was a massive silent majority that leaned conservative and who went out and voted, then they knew 2020 was shaping up to be a real fight. Whatever you think about Donald Trump, his  barnstorming approach and his ability to generate actual movement among conservative voters to come out and participate is unprecedented. No one generated rallies like this, not even Reagan. Very clearly, while Trump will very likely not prevail here in this election, his strategy did help hold the Senate for the GOP.

In 2016, Trump got over 2 billion in estimated unpaid media coverage with his trolling tactics. He went up against two legitimate political dynasties ( Clinton and Bush) and went to war with Clinton's massive financial warchest. Then took on a clearly biased and left leaning MSM, Hollywood, social media, Big Tech and the liberal college/university system that pumped out the youth indoctrinated in leftist agenda. The DNC has this much financial and political and access  firepower in 2016 and still lost. They also very nearly lost this election. To say there is no incentive to cheat is insane. We are all rooted in football where an entire year of controversy rooted in how much air goes into a football. Nobel Prize winners weighed in on the topic.

You are going to tell me someone would hunt for the edge in how much air is in a football to win but some elements wouldn't do it to control trillions of dollars and public policy?

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11 minutes ago, GordonGekko said:

 

That process would be prevented if Trump persists after Biden is certified as POTUS. There is a buffer period after the election for this very reason, i.e. review and potential audit and potential legal challenges. Election Day was two weeks ago, it was not 4 months ago. There are not armed groups hunting down CNN pundits.  There are not journalists being beaten for dissenting views. Children aren't being shuffled into reeducation camps. You've bought into political porn spurred from shock marketing/outrage culture that has convinced you that American politics is like filming a western.

You scream for unity but you what you really are doing is demanding surrender. 

While nearly all of Trump's legal filings have failed, that's part of the process too. The one that succeeded, even if only symbolic in the grand scheme of this election, is a reminder that the process exists in the first place.

When it's not enough to win, when it's about screaming at someone to go to their knees for you, you've lost. You've lost because whatever your political ideology, you've driven away the moderates and undecideds from you. If you keep wagging your finger in people's face but keep shouting your hands are in your pockets, you'll find you've done a true disservice from the causes that you say you choose to represent.

It's actually the least American thing you can do to another citizen of the republic.

And what say you about the Commander in Chief enflaming the 25M hardcore followers with words like "stolen election", "voter fraud", "rigged" (despite no evidence).  Do you not think that will play a larger roll in unity, rather than the group of people wanting the President-Elect to receive the morning briefs and other details, while Trump pursues whatever he needs to pursue.  

You talk about unity, but you are defending the biggest divider your country has ever saw.  That's why I think your whole diatribe comes off a lot disingenuous.   

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1 minute ago, Chaz McNulty said:

And what say you about the Commander in Chief enflaming the 25M hardcore followers with words like "stolen election", "voter fraud", "rigged" (despite no evidence).  Do you not think that will play a larger roll in unity, rather than the group of people wanting the President-Elect to receive the morning briefs and other details, while Trump pursues whatever he needs to pursue.  

You talk about unity, but you are defending the biggest divider your country has ever saw.  That's why I think your whole diatribe comes off a lot disingenuous.   

Trump supporters never seem to address the bolded part    :shrug: 

Edited by fred_1_15301
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8 minutes ago, GordonGekko said:

You are going to tell me someone would hunt for the edge in how much air is in a football to win but some elements wouldn't do it to control trillions of dollars and public policy?

Glad to see you admit the GOP has every inch the need, means and desire to cheat as the left.  Sounds like a whole lotta red states need some serious investigation. I’m sure you’re also in full support of Biden calling Trumps 70mil votes fraudulent and baselessly calling him a cheat and that he rigged the election.  

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I love how the Secretary of State, Lt. Governor and Governor of the state of Georgia are all corrupt.  What is this guy smoking?  Kemp has been one of the biggest Trump lackeys and all of a sudden he's corrupt and bought by China?  :lmao::lmao:

"He may have won all 50 states."  :lmao::lmao:

Max, did you actually listen to your link?  If so, I might as well put you on ignore.

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6 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

I love how the Secretary of State, Lt. Governor and Governor of the state of Georgia are all corrupt.  What is this guy smoking?  Kemp has been one of the biggest Trump lackeys and all of a sudden he's corrupt and bought by China?  :lmao::lmao:

"He may have won all 50 states."  :lmao::lmao:

Max, did you actually listen to your link?  If so, I might as well put you on ignore.

Knock yourself out.

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36 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

I love how the Secretary of State, Lt. Governor and Governor of the state of Georgia are all corrupt.  What is this guy smoking?  Kemp has been one of the biggest Trump lackeys and all of a sudden he's corrupt and bought by China?  :lmao::lmao:

"He may have won all 50 states."  :lmao::lmao:

Max, did you actually listen to your link?  If so, I might as well put you on ignore.

Yeah, this is literally what happens when a dictator tries to overthrow democracy.  This has happened in multiple countries in my adult lifetime.  Wish more people could read the tea leaves.  

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4 minutes ago, Alex P Keaton said:

Yeah, this is literally what happens when a dictator tries to overthrow democracy.  This has happened in multiple countries in my adult lifetime.  Wish more people could read the tea leaves.  

People thought Lin was a nut before this - the first 5 minutes of the interview is a conspiracy theorist wet dream.  I'm out on this discussion - it's not legitimate and I'm not giving it any more time.  I thought we were having a real conversation but apparently not. 

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2 hours ago, GordonGekko said:

 

That process would be prevented if Trump persists after Biden is certified as POTUS. There is a buffer period after the election for this very reason, i.e. review and potential audit and potential legal challenges. Election Day was two weeks ago, it was not 4 months ago. There are not armed groups hunting down CNN pundits.  There are not journalists being beaten for dissenting views. Children aren't being shuffled into reeducation camps. You've bought into political porn spurred from shock marketing/outrage culture that has convinced you that American politics is like filming a western.

You scream for unity but you what you really are doing is demanding surrender. 

While nearly all of Trump's legal filings have failed, that's part of the process too. The one that succeeded, even if only symbolic in the grand scheme of this election, is a reminder that the process exists in the first place.

When it's not enough to win, when it's about screaming at someone to go to their knees for you, you've lost. You've lost because whatever your political ideology, you've driven away the moderates and undecideds from you. If you keep wagging your finger in people's face but keep shouting your hands are in your pockets, you'll find you've done a true disservice from the causes that you say you choose to represent.

It's actually the least American thing you can do to another citizen of the republic.

I think you must be replying to another post.  At no point did I scream anything.  

Calm down.

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On 11/15/2020 at 5:37 PM, Max Power said:

Several days ago

Well, we are a few weeks after the election now. 

If nothing comes of the foreign election interference.... how many days do you think it would be until you were questioning some other aspect of the election and needed to see that "play out"? Or are some of us completely wrong and if it turns out there is no substantive proof of election interference then you will accept the election results for what they are?

I'm asking because I think if you locked 100 monkeys and roger stone in room with a typewriter they could eventually come up with "War and Peace" or a new conspiracy theory every several days. If the conspiracy theories don't require any actual proof then they could probably come up with one every few hours.

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1 hour ago, AAABatteries said:

People thought Lin was a nut before this - the first 5 minutes of the interview is a conspiracy theorist wet dream.  I'm out on this discussion - it's not legitimate and I'm not giving it any more time.  I thought we were having a real conversation but apparently not. 

Rinse, wash, repeat. Once this is completely debunked (even though it doesn't need to be), then the next claim will come out that we'll have to listen to and wait to be investigated while we ignore the previous 20 that were similar nonsense.

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2 hours ago, AAABatteries said:

He wants to throw out legal votes - the guy is a nutjob who was sued by his former colleagues. 

I saw his name and thought, "Why does a guy whose entire litigating career is based on libel, rather than anything near or within politics, have any authoritative factual view on this election?"

Then I started listening and knew why -- he simply feeds a narrative that for some reason many want desperately to be true, regardless of the absence of proof.

My opinion is that it's long past the time we need to start paying attention to people who come to the table with expertise, investigative and provable fact, and credible balanced views as opposed to the latest person who wants to crow into an easily provided megaphone.

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10 hours ago, Alex P Keaton said:

Yeah, this is literally what happens when a dictator tries to overthrow democracy.  This has happened in multiple countries in my adult lifetime.  Wish more people could read the tea leaves.  

Disagree. Demanding a fair election, counting votes, and investigating irregularities IS democracy. Care to provide a single example of the bolded?

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35 minutes ago, NorvilleBarnes said:

Disagree. Demanding a fair election, counting votes, and investigating irregularities IS democracy. Care to provide a single example of the bolded?

What of there are no irregularities?  Note: people not voting for Trump is NOT an irregularity, regardless of what Trump says.

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19 hours ago, GordonGekko said:

 

That process would be prevented if Trump persists after Biden is certified as POTUS. There is a buffer period after the election for this very reason, i.e. review and potential audit and potential legal challenges. Election Day was two weeks ago, it was not 4 months ago. There are not armed groups hunting down CNN pundits.  There are not journalists being beaten for dissenting views. Children aren't being shuffled into reeducation camps. You've bought into political porn spurred from shock marketing/outrage culture that has convinced you that American politics is like filming a western.

You scream for unity but you what you really are doing is demanding surrender. 

While nearly all of Trump's legal filings have failed, that's part of the process too. The one that succeeded, even if only symbolic in the grand scheme of this election, is a reminder that the process exists in the first place.

When it's not enough to win, when it's about screaming at someone to go to their knees for you, you've lost. You've lost because whatever your political ideology, you've driven away the moderates and undecideds from you. If you keep wagging your finger in people's face but keep shouting your hands are in your pockets, you'll find you've done a true disservice from the causes that you say you choose to represent.

It's actually the least American thing you can do to another citizen of the republic.

The one "that succeeded" was a challenge to provisional votes in PA that Trump didn't want counted. Why were they provisional? Because PA election offices didn't think those voters should be allowed to vote because records indicated they hadn't completed the voter registration process. Rather than deny them outright and face "Look, it's fraud-they wouldn't let these people vote" claims, they went with the provisional path so the validity could be determined later.  So, Team Trump's lone "success" was in confirming that PA was right in not counting those votes.  In effect, he's 1-0 in claims agreeing with the election results and 0-whatever when trying to overturn them.

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47 minutes ago, NorvilleBarnes said:

Disagree. Demanding a fair election, counting votes, and investigating irregularities IS democracy. Care to provide a single example of the bolded?

Demanding a fair election is one thing.  Insisting the election was rigged and the opponent is stealing the presidency with little more than conspiracy theories as "proof"  is NOT a democracy.  

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1 minute ago, Godsbrother said:

Demanding a fair election is one thing.  Insisting the election was rigged and the opponent is stealing the presidency with little more than conspiracy theories as "proof"  is NOT a democracy.  

I completely agree and I've posted items debunking some claims of irregularities. But Trump is not Hitler and making legal challenges is not destroying democracy.

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Question for @NorvilleBarnes, @Max Power, @HellToupee, and anyone else who wants to continue investigating the election: 

While the investigation is going on, shouldn’t President Trump allow the GSA to cooperate with President Elect Biden, so that just in case the current results are not overturned we don’t lose any time fighting Covid and dealing with national security issues? 

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6 minutes ago, NorvilleBarnes said:

I completely agree and I've posted items debunking some claims of irregularities. But Trump is not Hitler and making legal challenges is not destroying democracy.

What would you call denying the lawful transition of the president elect on the basis of ZERO hard evidence?

Why has every other president accepted the vote?  And don't mention 2000 because that's not even close to this situation.

Trump is undermining our democracy by convincing his rabid base that Biden is not a dually elected president.  Anyone who can't see that is part of Trump's rabid base.

 

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1 minute ago, timschochet said:

Question for @NorvilleBarnes, @Max Power, @HellToupee, and anyone else who wants to continue investigating the election: 

While the investigation is going on, shouldn’t President Trump allow the GSA to cooperate with President Elect Biden, so that just in case the current results are not overturned we don’t lose any time fighting Covid and dealing with national security issues? 

Absolutely. 

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2 minutes ago, NorvilleBarnes said:

Absolutely. 

That's all I ask.  Trump has an absolute right to pursue any and all legal recourse.  That being said, preventing transition does irreparable harm to the country, especially in the midst of the worst pandemic in 100 years.

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1 minute ago, NorvilleBarnes said:

Absolutely. 

Thank you. In that case I would suggest that in this situation your biggest criticism should be reserved for President Trump. After all, while many (including me) are skeptical about these legal challenges to the election, nobody is stopping them. On the other hand Trump is preventing the GSA from working with Biden and this could really end up hurting a lot of people. 

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4 minutes ago, James Daulton said:

What would you call denying the lawful transition of the president elect on the basis of ZERO hard evidence?

Why has every other president accepted the vote?  And don't mention 2000 because that's not even close to this situation.

Trump is undermining our democracy by convincing his rabid base that Biden is not a dually elected president.  Anyone who can't see that is part of Trump's rabid base.

 

Oh there is definitely a rabid base. Hint: it's the side that burns stuff down.

Al Gore didn't concede until December - oh sorry, you asked me not to mention that. 

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3 minutes ago, NorvilleBarnes said:

Oh there is definitely a rabid base. Hint: it's the side that burns stuff down.

Al Gore didn't concede until December - oh sorry, you asked me not to mention that. 

Do you feel like the situation in 2000, an election decided by a few hundred votes in one state, is comparable in anyway to this election?  One in which Trump lost multiple states by tens of thousands of votes?

And you think the people that burn things down are part of the democratic base?  Tell me, has Biden pandered to them or encouraged them in any way?

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1 minute ago, timschochet said:

Thank you. In that case I would suggest that in this situation your biggest criticism should be reserved for President Trump. After all, while many (including me) are skeptical about these legal challenges to the election, nobody is stopping them. On the other hand Trump is preventing the GSA from working with Biden and this could really end up hurting a lot of people. 

Well everyone should care about a fair election and there should be equal outrage if legal votes were discarded or there were issues with the voting software. It shouldn't be just the right. It's the (possible) irregularities that undermine democracy, not the challenges. 

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4 minutes ago, James Daulton said:

Do you feel like the situation in 2000, an election decided by a few hundred votes in one state, is comparable in anyway to this election?  One in which Trump lost multiple states by tens of thousands of votes?

And you think the people that burn things down are part of the democratic base?  Tell me, has Biden pandered to them or encouraged them in any way?

Yes. No one is saying it's identical, if that's what you mean.

Yes?

Yes. 

Yes,

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13 minutes ago, NorvilleBarnes said:

Oh there is definitely a rabid base. Hint: it's the side that burns stuff down.

Al Gore didn't concede until December - oh sorry, you asked me not to mention that. 

and, how did 2001 go? Were there any failures, particularly in the national security/intelligence fields shortly afterwards?

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3 minutes ago, NorvilleBarnes said:

Are you blaming 9/11 on  . . . . Al Gore?

absolutely not.  I read somewhere, can't find it now, of course, that the abbreviated transition in 2000 may have led to some intelligence failures leading up to 9/11.  Remember that this was a failure of different departments not communicating or recognizing threats.  One hand knew about middle-eastern men taking flying lessons, another hand knew that Bin Laden was plotting something, but the two hands weren't putting it all together.

Could a more cohesive transition helped with communication issues?  Were there lingering, unresolved leadership roles and positions in the months leading up to it?  I have no idea.  I'm just saying - 2001 didn't go so great for us, maybe pointing to the 2000 transition as a model of success may not be wise.

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8 minutes ago, NorvilleBarnes said:

Well everyone should care about a fair election and there should be equal outrage if legal votes were discarded or there were issues with the voting software. It shouldn't be just the right. It's the (possible) irregularities that undermine democracy, not the challenges. 

We should care about integrity in elections. But Trump is not the right person to lead the charge, he might be the worst. Baseless claims in 2016, 1 for 24 in courts in 2020, jokingly suggesting that people vote twice. 

After a hand count in Georgia, I'm convinced that Biden won fair and square, vindicating the process and the Dominion software. Are you convinced?

https://mobile.twitter.com/EWErickson/status/1328534134373953536

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2 hours ago, NorvilleBarnes said:

Disagree. Demanding a fair election, counting votes, and investigating irregularities IS democracy. Care to provide a single example of the bolded?

The bolded?  We've seen both Venezuela and Zimbabwe turn into authoritarian regimes in the past 15 years.  Did you mean to bold something else?

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16 minutes ago, Alex P Keaton said:

The bolded?  We've seen both Venezuela and Zimbabwe turn into authoritarian regimes in the past 15 years.  Did you mean to bold something else?

No I was honestly interested in what you thought we were "literally" turning into. Thanks.

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28 minutes ago, NorvilleBarnes said:

No I was honestly interested in what you thought we were "literally" turning into. Thanks.

That isn’t what I wrote.  I didn’t write “we are literally turning into these countries.”  I wrote “this is literally what happens.....”  Those are different statements.

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1 hour ago, timschochet said:

Question for @NorvilleBarnes, @Max Power, @HellToupee, and anyone else who wants to continue investigating the election: 

While the investigation is going on, shouldn’t President Trump allow the GSA to cooperate with President Elect Biden, so that just in case the current results are not overturned we don’t lose any time fighting Covid and dealing with national security issues? 

What information is Biden's team not getting about covid?

I'm ok with Biden not getting national security briefs at the moment due to the potential of foreign interference in the election. If that claim doesn't turn out to be true, I'll be very disappointed in Trump's handling of the transition. 

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16 minutes ago, Alex P Keaton said:

That isn’t what I wrote.  I didn’t write “we are literally turning into these countries.”  I wrote “this is literally what happens.....”  Those are different statements.

As a side note (look at me) I've actually been to Zimbabwe and I can assure you that "literally" nothing Trump tweets will turn the U.S. into Zimbabwe. 

 

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15 minutes ago, NorvilleBarnes said:

As a side note (look at me) I've actually been to Zimbabwe and I can assure you that "literally" nothing Trump tweets will turn the U.S. into Zimbabwe. 

 

One of my BFFs is from there.  It used to be an amazing country.  It slid downhill quickly.  Democracy is fragile.

But I agree that Trump tweets by themselves won’t turn us into Zimbabwe.  Or Venezuela.  Or Bolivia.  Or Russia.

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40 minutes ago, Max Power said:

What information is Biden's team not getting about covid?

I'm ok with Biden not getting national security briefs at the moment due to the potential of foreign interference in the election. If that claim doesn't turn out to be true, I'll be very disappointed in Trump's handling of the transition. 

As someone that has taken over many projects midstream I can tell you that the more time the new team has with the outgoing team the better the transitions go. 

I do not understand Trump's problem with it other than to make things difficult for his successor.  Seems petty and unpatriotic but then again it is Trump we're talking about here.

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1 hour ago, Max Power said:

What information is Biden's team not getting about covid?

I'm ok with Biden not getting national security briefs at the moment due to the potential of foreign interference in the election. If that claim doesn't turn out to be true, I'll be very disappointed in Trump's handling of the transition. 


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Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation’s leading infectious disease expert, said on Sunday that the Trump administration should start working with President-elect Joe Biden’s team on the coronavirus response, as the White House has so far declined to begin the official transition of power.

“It’s almost like passing a baton in a race,” Fauci, head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told CNN’s Jake Tapper on “State of the Union.” “You don’t want to stop, and then give it to somebody, you want to just essentially keep going.”

Fauci, who has served six presidents over 36 years, said that the transition period is crucial. Working with the incoming Biden-Harris administration would make the process run more smoothly, he said.

When asked if public health officials would benefit from working with the Biden transition team, Fauci said, “Of course it would be better if we can start working with them.”

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