timschochet
Footballguy
It just makes Trump look more corrupt, which in turn will hurt Republicans in the future IMO.
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TRUMP TO INFINITY AND BEYOND HQ - The Great and Positive Place (7 Viewers)
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sho nuff
Footballguy
We can keep saying that...but have we seen any reason to believe it will hurt them?
Moonlight
Footballguy
IMO it appears that Republicans have been influenced to look at Democrats as the biggest threat to freedom and stability in comparison for example to Russia, brazen corruption and the advancement of the top 1% in income in relation to the regression of the lower and middle classes
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Moonlight
Footballguy
The lack of outrage of Trump's attempts to subvert our elections through appealing to state legislatures and officials to ignore the popular vote suggests apathy at best regarding preserving the democratic process.
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Chaz McNulty
Footballguy
Is the pardon just for the charges he is guilty of, or do they include any future charges that may be bought against him?
I've often wondered if it would be worth it for the DA to hold back something for a situation like this. That's why I've always been curious about Trump pardoning himself. He hasn't got any charges against him, so how does he know what to pardon himself for?
Joe Summer
Footballguy
I realize that victories have been few and far between for Trump supporters recently, so I kind of understand the idea of disproportionately cheering for any shred of a win, no matter how small.
But celebrating a United States military officer who lied to the government and admitted to it? Why be proud of that? Why die on that hill? Just take the W and quietly move on.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Agreed and it’s incredibly dangerous for our country and world for this to be the case. Sadly, I think that has been present for the other side as well where Democrats have painted Republicans and Republican leaders previously as more dangerous than the true threats.
ericttspikes
Footballguy
Trump pardons 2 turkeys today!
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NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Really? Trump has said all along that Flynn was a great American and was treated unfairly.
apalmer
Footballguy
"Any and all crimes committed or alleged to have been committed prior to the date of this pardon."
Drunken Cowboy
Footballguy
Will he limit himself? Why not go all in with also any crimes after the date of this pardon.
The Future Champs
Footballguy
I don't think it hurts the political party, but it does effect the public's perception of the outgoing president, IMO. I didn't have a lot of respect for Clinton, and I lost some more when he pardoned Rich. Likewise, I didn't have a lot of respect for W, but I gained some when he stiff armed Cheney over the Scooter Libbey pardon.Kao-Lin said:
Bamboo Bill
Footballguy
Rich Conway
Footballguy
At what point do we demand that she put up or shut up? To date, best I can tell, she has offered zero actual evidence to support the wild allegations.
Max Power
Footballguy
Bamboo Bill
Footballguy
What was undermined? It's been four weeks now, how is this on the right track? 1-39 lawsuits... Please tell me you have more.
Rich Conway
Footballguy
Can you point me to some? Seriously, I didn't see evidence. I saw allegations, which is not the same thing at all.
Max Power
Footballguy
Max Power
Footballguy
Rich Conway
Footballguy
Can you point me to a specific affidavit that isn't simply an allegation? Just stating "we have affidavits" is not evidence, especially when we know that A) "affidavits" could be submitted online without verification, and B) one of Trump's lawyers admitted in court that the affidavits were "mostly spam and lies".
Can you point me to the specifics of the SIGINT claim?
I'm legit trying to see the evidence here, but I keep coming back to unsupported claims.
Bamboo Bill
Footballguy
What was undermined again?
I assume we'll see some evidence in the fifth or sixth post-election week? Pretty cool strategy.
Max Power
Footballguy
I'll link it for you tonight. I'm on my phone now.
There was a claim yesterday in the AZ hearing as well as in the michigan filing that we saw data packets leave the us and likely tampered with.
Bamboo Bill
Footballguy
Rich Conway
Footballguy
More to the point, when do we use Occam's Razor here? I mean, either:
A) Sidney Powell has somehow managed to sniff out a vast conspiracy involving thousands of people, across both political parties. For some reason known only to her, she is making wild accusations in the media, yet has refused to provide the proof of this conspiracy either to the media or in court. In some cases, the claims she has made are mutually contradictory ("Dominion cheated us" and "Trump votes were so overwhelming, it broke Dominion's cheating algorithm, so they hand-processed tens of thousands of ballots as a plan B", and contradict the available evidence we have (GA hand recount number of ballots matched number of votes, within traditional degree of error). Yet all of that should be ignored because, essentially, she is a serious lawyer and wouldn't risk her reputation.
--or--
B) Trump and co. are playing their supporters to raise money, behavior that would be entirely consistent with Trump's entire known history.
https://news.yahoo.com/report-trump-raised-more-150-044424719.html
A) Sidney Powell has somehow managed to sniff out a vast conspiracy involving thousands of people, across both political parties. For some reason known only to her, she is making wild accusations in the media, yet has refused to provide the proof of this conspiracy either to the media or in court. In some cases, the claims she has made are mutually contradictory ("Dominion cheated us" and "Trump votes were so overwhelming, it broke Dominion's cheating algorithm, so they hand-processed tens of thousands of ballots as a plan B", and contradict the available evidence we have (GA hand recount number of ballots matched number of votes, within traditional degree of error). Yet all of that should be ignored because, essentially, she is a serious lawyer and wouldn't risk her reputation.
--or--
B) Trump and co. are playing their supporters to raise money, behavior that would be entirely consistent with Trump's entire known history.
https://news.yahoo.com/report-trump-raised-more-150-044424719.html
Bamboo Bill
Footballguy
The supporters and the guy who constantly claim false news and dishonesty in reporting and information continue to push false narratives and bogus information with ZERO evidence and zero consequences. I guess you are going down with the ship.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/2020/11/12/vote-certification-deadlines-ga-mi-wi-nv-az-pa/
Rich Conway
Footballguy
Just to indulge this a bit more... How do you expect that to happen, precisely? Do you believe SCOTUS will invalidate the election results? Do you believe state legislatures will appoint different reps to the electoral college in enough states to matter? Even if Powell can prove a tiny smidgeon of the allegations, what's the path to victory here?
Uwe Blab
Footballguy
Along these lines, I thought this was a great tweet thread by Erick Erickson (Trump voter and abashed conservative): Link
According to the Trump World narrative,
- The President was failed by multiple chiefs of staff, his first attorney general, and now his second.
- The Durham investigation that would expose everything is exposing nothing, not even itself. But just you wait and see!
- The Trump controlled Department of Justice and Trump controlled FBI are in on stealing the election from their boss along with possibly the CIA and now Fox News whose accurate call of Arizona was right, but hurt feelings by coming too soon.
- The Republican governors of Georgia and Arizona and the Republican legislators of Georgia, Arizona, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin are in on picking the infrastructure that stole the election and will do nothing to stop it.
- The Republican Party in Georgia is unable to get the Republican Governor, Lt. Gov., Secretary of State, or Attorney General to act to do the President's bidding, so they all must be in cahoots with Stacey Abrams who they all dislike.
- Dominion Voting Systems handed the vote to Donald Trump in all the counties in which their machines were used in Pennsylvania, but was in on the act of stealing the election there and elsewhere.
- The paper ballot votes in Georgia aligned with the Dominion Voter Systems machine count so that is proof the election was stolen, as were the disproportionate use of absentee ballots by Democrats when Trump said not to use them and Biden said to use them.
- The lawsuits being filed by President Trump's team are all being tossed from court, often by the judges the President himself picked. The lawyers have failed him. So have his judges and courts.
- Maybe it is all a grand conspiracy or maybe, just maybe, and this is a wild idea, but maybe the man who said he hired the best people didn't and that ultimately means that he's not actually very good at picking the right people. But wait…there's more.
- For the sake of argument, let's suppose that the Attorney General, who previously served as Attorney General for George H. W. Bush, is actually a highly competent individual and John Durham is too.
- But both have been unable to deliver results that would expose the deep state conspiracy against the President -- the one that also involved the DOJ, FBI, and CIA stealing the election from the President with the help of Republican governors and legislators.
- And there are a bunch of courtiers to the Trump Administration who've been assuring us that just you wait, it is all going to be exposed and people are going to jail and the deep state house of cards is collapsing.
- Maybe…and I know this might just blow your mind…but maybe what if you've been lied to the whole time. There is no conspiracy . There is no theft of the election. The President hired highly competent people, but it is him, not them, that is the problem.
- And then maybe, just maybe, because it is him, not them, that is the problem, ultimately it is really you who are the problem because you so willingly got played and even now want to be played because now you're emotionally invested in a cause and a candidate and…
- …to admit you were played and he lost and there was no deep state conspiracy or theft of the election would actually make you look bad. So it's better to double down on the lies and $%^& and blame everyone else …
- from the Trump appointed AG to the Trump appointed FBI Director to the Trump appointed CIA Director to various Trump endorsed Governors to the GOP establishment to corporate America, the Carlyle Group, the Rothschilds, the Russians, and the Chinese.
- Maybe Hillary Clinton was so deeply disliked that Trump could beat her and if he'd not flubbed his first debate, not had so many insane tweets, and not handled the viral situation as he had, he could have beaten Biden. But voters got exhausted and chose to move on.
- Or, who knows, maybe the deep state stole it and, if so, using the same machines in 4 years, good luck running Trump again.
Lutherman2112
Footballguy
Trump lawyer Lin Wood tweets:
"Good morning.
Our country is headed to civil war. A war created by 3rd party bad actors for their benefit – not for We The People.
Communist China is leading the nefarious efforts to take away our freedom.
@realDonaldTrump should declare martial law.”
Included this link:
https://wethepeopleconvention.org/articles/WTPC-Urges-Limited-Martial-Law
"Good morning.
Our country is headed to civil war. A war created by 3rd party bad actors for their benefit – not for We The People.
Communist China is leading the nefarious efforts to take away our freedom.
@realDonaldTrump should declare martial law.”
Included this link:
https://wethepeopleconvention.org/articles/WTPC-Urges-Limited-Martial-Law
Witz
Footballguy
Capella
Footballguy
Max Power
Footballguy
I'd like to think the States will get it right, but I think ultimately it will be SCOTUS ruling that invalidates certain states.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
We can't rationalize the irrational. And that incongruity is at the root of the contentiousness rampant in political discourse these days.
JAA
Footballguy
Affidavits are not evidence.
I reviewed the SIGINT myself as an authoritative source, that affidavit is garbage.
JAA
Footballguy
We are all entitled to our beliefs.
I would encourage you to ask yourself though "Am I ready to be wrong?"
Capella
Footballguy
There will be nothing before Scotus for them to even decide. You should re-evaluate where you are getting your information from. There is literally 0 chance Trump is the president on 1/21.
JAA
Footballguy
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
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