timschochet
Footballguy
Both sides do it, but on the Democratic side it’s a few extremists who are either ignored or rejected. On the Republican side it’s the majority of the party including its leader.
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TRUMP TO INFINITY AND BEYOND HQ - The Great and Positive Place (19 Viewers)
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moleculo
Footballguy
are you really comparing a few opinion pieces from media hacks with 40-50 actual lawsuits? come on now. You have to know these are not the same.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Ok we will agree to partially agree. I do think a lot of people were embarrassing themselves during 2016 when it comes to Trump and the election. I also agree the courts defending the county is a good thing. However, for the strength of the country, as Tasker pointed out, it’s not just that the courts need to rule X, it’s that the significant majority of citizens need to have faith in the courts decision of X. That’s the part I’m worried about. The Obama-Trump-Biden years have seen our country really change from a disagreement of policy to a disagreement of character and morality which seems needed towards a disagreement of reality.
timschochet
Footballguy
In any case I will repeat what I’ve written in other threads: I’ve never understood why hypocrisy is used as an argument or justification for anything. Who cares?
supermike80
Footballguy
I won't report this, because I will never report anything. But to the board mods, is it fair to say "the majority of the republican party" like that? I thought these sort of irresponsible blanket generalizations were not to be done here?
supermike80
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
The leader of the Republican Party believes, without evidence, that the election was stolen. The majority of Republicans agree with him. I think these are extreme positions. I’m not generalizing at all. But by all means feel free to report me. By declaring that you won’t but by asking the mods about it in the same post you make your intent very clear.
supermike80
Footballguy
Totally agree. And I am a willing to almost absolutely guarantee who ever wins in in 2024 there will be attempts to block, subvert, change the results.
supermike80
Footballguy
supermike80
Footballguy
Told you I don't report. Ever. Just thought this kind of garbage was being avoided here. Might be only certain posters.
And the mods have said they don't check threads regularly and if you want their attention, you have to report things. So they said anyway.
I think you are confusing not being hypocritical with whataboutism. You don't have to call out both sides all the time. When it is the Republicans doing terrible things it is ok to call them out, when it is the Democrats doing terrible things it is ok to call them out. You don't always have to bring up 2016 when talking about 2020, if the current discussion is about 2020.
supermike80
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
OK. Thanks for reminding me why I normally don’t respond to you. I’ll try harder to remember that in the future.
moleculo
Footballguy
Michael Avenatti represented a porn star. Guliani represents the president. Not the same.
supermike80
Footballguy
No one said they were the same. They both ruin the credibility of the party they represent (or represented --since Avenetti is now in jail--unless covid let him out-- I cant keep track of the crook) however.
moleculo
Footballguy
Avenetti never represented the democrat party or any of it's leadership. He was a media darling for a minute but he had no formal relationship AFAIK.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
It's a shame that Stormy ruined her credibility by associating with Avenetti. Neither one represent the Democratic party though
Rich Conway
Footballguy
As of yesterday, 21 Congressional Republicans out of hundreds acknowledge that Trump lost the election. I think it's fair to categorize that as "the majority".
supermike80
Footballguy
Um....Taken from Wikipedia:
Avenatti expressed interest in running for President of the United States in 2020; he started a political action committee,[77][78] and held his first fundraiser at the Democratic Wing Ding in August.[79] In September 2018, Avenatti said he would run in 2020 only against Trump or Pence.[80] On November 1, 2018, Avenatti released his first political ad, which urged Americans to vote on November 6, 2018;[81] The Washington Post ranked him a top 15 contender.
Soooo....that seems to at least have some democratic party influecne at the time. Just sayin. But that's enough on him I think
supermike80
Footballguy
So if they don't acknowledge Trump lost, that means they automatically say he didn't? Is that how that works?
supermike80
Footballguy
Doug B
Footballguy
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Yeah I think so too. Comparing Avenatti to the president's personal secretary was pretty silly.
timschochet
Footballguy
President Trump has less than 6 weeks left, but he could really have a positive impact in the coming days by taking these simple steps:
1. Promote, publicly, mask wearing and social distancing. It’s never too late. People are getting sick and dying. He needs to emphasize to his most fervent supporters how serious this is.
2. Promote, publicly, taking the vaccine. Trump is proud of his role in getting the vaccine developed quickly and frankly I think he should be: it’s his greatest accomplishment as President IMO. So he should promote taking it. It would be wonderful if he joined the other Presidents by taking it himself live on camera. That would do a world of good.
These easy steps would do a lot, IMO, to redeem his catastrophic behavior over the last year or so.
1. Promote, publicly, mask wearing and social distancing. It’s never too late. People are getting sick and dying. He needs to emphasize to his most fervent supporters how serious this is.
2. Promote, publicly, taking the vaccine. Trump is proud of his role in getting the vaccine developed quickly and frankly I think he should be: it’s his greatest accomplishment as President IMO. So he should promote taking it. It would be wonderful if he joined the other Presidents by taking it himself live on camera. That would do a world of good.
These easy steps would do a lot, IMO, to redeem his catastrophic behavior over the last year or so.
supermike80
Footballguy
Too late for him to fix his behavior in regards to this pandemic and any gestures now will most likely be rejected as "too little too late"
He is better off being quiet, letting Biden's team take the podium, and quietly going away
timschochet
Footballguy
Agreed. There are also at least a half dozen polls out there which show that the majority of Republican voters believe the election was stolen. I wasn’t generalizing. I wish I was.
supermike80
Footballguy
Polls are fake news. So just cause you found some poll that supports your position doesn't make it so. We have been over this too many times.
But whatever..It fits your narrative so go with it. I probably would too.
Doug B
Footballguy
moleculo
Footballguy
can you point to the part where he represented any faction of the DNC or it's leadership?
Rich Conway
Footballguy
In reality, I suspect most of those who haven't yet acknowledged it are quite aware that Trump lost, but just don't want to say so publicly for fear of angering Trump and his base. It's cowardice, plain and simple.
supermike80
Footballguy
No it isn't. It's stupid politics to even get involved in this. It's not cowardice at all. Why on earth would you dip your hat in to this if you were a republican. I wouldn't. Id stay away from that third rail.
supermike80
Footballguy
I agree with this. Most of the Republicans in Congress just didn't answer the poll. It is just politics. If they say "Trump lost" then the people that voted for them will be angry. If they say "Trump won" then the will get called out by the media for denying facts. It is not cowardly for politicians to ignore no-win polls, it is just politics.
Rich Conway
Footballguy
I think the point is this is NOT politics as normal. This is a new situation because of the current GOP's cowardice and refusal to stand up to the petulant child currently at its helm.
I am not sure exactly how this poll was conducted, but it is the equivalent of a reporter asking a member of congress the question "Do you believe Donald Trump lost the election?" and them responding "No comment". It is not as nefarious as people are trying to make it seem. There are much better ways to stand up to the president. That being said, I would like to see more members of congress coming out and supporting the validity of the election.
moleculo
Footballguy
so now that we have established that Avenatti was nothing more then a porn-star's lawyer who tried to capitalize on his newly-found fame, how is his existence hypocrisy WRT Guliani?
Uwe Blab
Footballguy
I don't know man, I think Trump keeps getting closer to that line (openly inciting violence). I've long maintained that his rhetoric and actions post-election are going to get people killed. Not civil war, but just attacks on state officials, public Biden supporters, etc. Here's one of his tweets this morning:
shader
Footballguy
The media and the left have had an "ignore Trump" attitude over the last few weeks. Today Youtube even announced they are going to start removing videos that question the results of the election. The media narrative is currently that Biden has won, 100%. As an example if I were to go ask my wife or any of her friends (who are all very non-political), they'd have no idea what's going on other than Trump whining about how he really won.
Meanwhile on the other planet known as the right, they feel they have a massive amount of evidence showing fraud. A state (TExas) just sued four states in the supreme court and a number of other states have publicly given their support. But the key here is that at this point all of this is legal. The judicial system (thus far) has totally rejected all the claims.
The question is what Trump does if all these "legal" options are exhausted. To be honest, the fringe left and the fringe right are in agreement on what he will do. They think he will try to take extreme measures to stay in power.
But most people, myself included, think he will eventually concede because despite everything that's been said about him, he's really not shown that he's a dictator-type. He's a reality star, a guy that is out for himself, a guy trying to make money. I don't think he's going to bring out the military, declare martial law and start a civil war.
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Godsbrother
Footballguy
He'll leave office but he'll never concede and admit that he lost. He would love to use the power of his office to remain in power but fortunately he is a coward and has no stomach for a real fight.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
I agree with most of this except I would add that he wishes he was a dictator. It would make the rest of what he wants to do that much easier. But I agree he won't act on anything drastic like in your last sentence. But his actions and words are dangerous - some nutjob may go over the line and hurt someone. Even if he would just come out and deal with that I would have a sliver of respect for him - but as usual, he can't be bothered because it's all about him.
timschochet
Footballguy
No idea where you’re getting this. In the last few weeks, whenever I turn on the news, story A is the coronavirus. Story B is Trump’s attempt to reverse the election results. These two stories dominate 90% or more of what I see and read. Nobody is ignoring Trump. I often wish they would.
shader
Footballguy
I guess ignore in the sense that they are just poking fun at him. CNN today is a good example of that. They don't take any of it seriously and present it in a way that doesn't represent the views of the right.
I'm not saying that's right or wrong...just saying it is what it is.
The hearings that took place in five states, as an example, were not covered by the media. The media isn't covering Texas literally suing four states in the supreme court. So they are ignoring one side of the argument (maybe for good reason, i'll let you guys decide that) in favor of just mockery.
timschochet
Footballguy
I don’t agree with this either. CNN, the example you cited, has legal experts on who spend a lot of time examining every legal attempt by the Trump team. If they’re dismissive and contemptuous, well, so are the courts. They’re giving these arguments the exact amount of respect that they objectively deserve.
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hxperson
Footballguy
You're talking about CNN though. Ever since Trump tried to bully them during this 2016 campaign they've been way off the deep end on the left side.
That being said - as someone who doesn't get his news from America and mostly follows financial news, nobody is paying attention to this Trump dog and pony show because we all know that it has a miniscule chance of overturning the election results. And until a headline comes out that changes that probability, nobody cares. For anybody who isn't heavily invested either way, this is all just noise.
Sea Duck
Footballguy
CNN should not take Trump's efforts to overturn the election seriously*, and they should not attempt to represent the views of the right.
*by "take it seriously," I mean that they should not act as if any of the lawsuits have a snowball's chance in diabloville of winning.
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Doug B
Footballguy
This is the crux -- the "legal process" to overturn Biden's sealed-in-stone victory is not some 50-50 shot using reasonably interpretable evidence that could fall either way. Taking shots at the electoral process is being done cynically -- I don't believe for a second that Trump, Jenna Ellis, Giuliani, Sidney Powell, etc. believes in their heart of hearts that overturning the 2020 presidential election is a realistic, achievable goal.
Dickies
Footballguy
BigJim®
Footballguy
I'd get this frustration if those "views" had not been admonished out of 50+ courts of all types, including by Trump appointees. If you're expecting something that has zero merit to be reported as if it might have merit - that doesn't seem like a realistic expectation if you are seeking reputable news reporting. I do think initially there was more "here's the argument"/"here's why it is wrong" coverage - which only proved to be accurate assessment.
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