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1 minute ago, Godsbrother said:

I don't remember the leaders of the Democratic party advocating or even suggesting that we do away with the 2016 election.   There were a few faithless electors in 2016 but it was a handful and I believe that Hillary Clinton lost more than Donald Trump did.

I don't recall Hillary Clinton saying the election was stolen from her nor do I remember the Democratic party filing 60+ lawsuits in an effort to disregard millions of ballots of American citizens.  I also don't remember anyone from the left calling for Obama to declare martial law to remain in power and I am pretty sure that no blue states attempted to invalidate the results of states that Clinton did not win.

Sure there are quacks on bof sidez that say ridiculous things but it typically doesn't come from the leaders of the party.   What we are seeing now is a level of crazy that has never been seen before in America and the Republican party is going along with the ride and giving credence to absurd conspiracy theories that are convincing millions of people to not trust the American election process.

But hey, if it can put hundreds of millions of dollars in Trump's pocket I guess it's worth it.

Jeez its like you missed your VP Elect encouraging violence just this summer

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9 minutes ago, Godsbrother said:

I don't remember the leaders of the Democratic party advocating or even suggesting that we do away with the 2016 election.   There were a few faithless electors in 2016 but it was a handful and I believe that Hillary Clinton lost more than Donald Trump did.

I don't recall Hillary Clinton saying the election was stolen from her nor do I remember the Democratic party filing 60+ lawsuits in an effort to disregard millions of ballots of American citizens.  I also don't remember anyone from the left calling for Obama to declare martial law to remain in power and I am pretty sure that no blue states attempted to invalidate the results of states that Clinton did not win.

Sure there are quacks on bof sidez that say ridiculous things but it typically doesn't come from the leaders of the party.   What we are seeing now is a level of crazy that has never been seen before in America and the Republican party is going along with the ride and giving credence to absurd conspiracy theories that are convincing millions of people to not trust the American election process.

But hey, if it can put hundreds of millions of dollars in Trump's pocket I guess it's worth it.

As far as the "leaders" well, that wasn't what the guy posted  He just said "the right"  so I countered with "the left"     

Very convenient how "the left" seems to forget these things and the anger that existed when they lost in 2016 and seem to think only "the right" is capable of being children when they lose.

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13 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Never even heard of this. So you plug your votes into a computer and it gives you a code and then you scan that code into another computer? In Michigan you use a pen to fill out a scantron bubble sheet and then you run it through the machine. 

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/will-georgias-new-voting-machines-solve-election-problems-or-make-them-worse

This is a very informative video on the subject. Pros and Cons to the system pre-election.

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1 minute ago, supermike80 said:

As far as the "leaders" well, that wasn't what the guy posted  He just said "the right"  so I countered with "the left"     

Very convenient how "the left" seems to forget the these things and the anger that existed when they lost in 2016 and seem to think only "the right" is capable of being children when they lose.

It’s one thing to be angry and upset. I don’t blame any Trump supporter for feeling that way. 

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3 minutes ago, Max Power said:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/will-georgias-new-voting-machines-solve-election-problems-or-make-them-worse

This is a very informative video on the subject. Pros and Cons to the system pre-election.

Thanks. Seems like it’s overkill when a hand marked ballot would work fine. Is that system only in GA or is that system used in multiple States? Sorry if it said, I’m scanning and working at the same time.

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1 minute ago, supermike80 said:

It's one thing to be angry and upset, I don't blame any Hillary supporter for feeling that way.

At what point does it go beyond being angry and upset and into break stuff mode? How many lawsuits have to be dismissed or conspiracy theories debunked? That’s just what I’m wondering because here we are a month after the ballots have been tabulated and we don’t seem any closer to having come to an acceptance of the outcome. I’ve found it very hard to have any optimism about the state of the county the last 5 years or so and it’s getting worse, not better imo.

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Just now, Ilov80s said:

At what point does it go beyond being angry and upset and into break stuff mode? How many lawsuits have to be dismissed or conspiracy theories debunked? That’s just what I’m wondering because here we are a month after the ballots have been tabulated and we don’t seem any closer to having come to an acceptance of the outcome. I’ve found it very hard to have any optimism about the state of the county the last 5 years or so and it’s getting worse, not better imo.

I dunno..Should we start with one?  Maybe there shouldn't be any?   "The left" ,since generalizations seem to be the focus today, don't get to do SOME stuff, then say "well we can do some stuff but the right is doing a lot of MORE stuff and therefore they are bad"   Wah wah wah.   I reject the idea that when the left does it, it's ok because the right did it more.  That's just silly to me. 

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5 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Thanks. Seems like it’s overkill when a hand marked ballot would work fine. Is that system only in GA or is that system used in multiple States? Sorry if it said, I’m scanning and working at the same time.

Its the dominion voting system. I think they said 29 states use it or some hybrid of it. I cant say for sure how each state runs it. 

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Just now, Ilov80s said:

At what point does it go beyond being angry and upset and into break stuff mode? How many lawsuits have to be dismissed or conspiracy theories debunked? That’s just what I’m wondering because here we are a month after the ballots have been tabulated and we don’t seem any closer to having come to an acceptance of the outcome. I’ve found it very hard to have any optimism about the state of the county the last 5 years or so and it’s getting worse, not better imo.

Trump has Papal Infallibility with a significant portion of his supporters.  If he says its fraud... so it be done.  If a million lawsuits were dismissed...if by his Graces he decree, than the million judges who dismissed them were part of the Deep State out to get him; even if he appointed them. 

He knows this...and at his best moments of moral clarity he uses it for his perceived good of the country; with the weight of how it benefits him and how much praise he will get from his supporters for enforcing said position being a big part of the decision process.

At it's worst... he, by not calling them to task,  grants people who are much more nefarious than him the ability to use his Name and the aura of his Infallibility to push a narrative.

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12 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

I dunno..Should we start with one?  Maybe there shouldn't be any?   "The left" ,since generalizations seem to be the focus today, don't get to do SOME stuff, then say "well we can do some stuff but the right is doing a lot of MORE stuff and therefore they are bad"   Wah wah wah.   I reject the idea that when the left does it, it's ok because the right did it more.  That's just silly to me. 

I don’t know if I follow. I don’t recall the Democratic Party, States or the Hillary campaign filing lawsuits alleging election fraud and attempting to overturn the election. I don’t recall any of that. But I see there’s no need to continue the conversation. You are where you are on this.

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15 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

I dunno..Should we start with one?  Maybe there shouldn't be any?   "The left" ,since generalizations seem to be the focus today, don't get to do SOME stuff, then say "well we can do some stuff but the right is doing a lot of MORE stuff and therefore they are bad"   Wah wah wah.   I reject the idea that when the left does it, it's ok because the right did it more.  That's just silly to me. 

I don't disagree with you on that but my point was that what the President and Republican party is doing right now is something we've never seen by either party.   I guess we aren't going to agree on that so I'll just drop it.  

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18 minutes ago, Max Power said:

Its the dominion voting system. I think they said 29 states use it or some hybrid of it. I cant say for sure how each state runs it. 

Looking at it, they make 2 machines. One that scans paper ballots and one that has the touchpad where the voter chooses and it then prints out an electronic copy of the vote to be scanned into the tabulator. Voters can see what the printout says and confirm it before submitting it to be counted.

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8 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

I don’t know if I follow. I don’t recall the Democratic Party, States or the Hillary campaign filing lawsuits alleging election fraud and attempting to overturn the election. I don’t recall any of that. But I see there’s no need to continue the conversation. You are where you are on this.

Im sorry you don't remember.  That was 4 years ago and I have moved on.   I will continue to consistently call out the absolute hypocrisy I see on this board.

Know how Sho is the board cop?  Well I'm nominating myself as the hypocrisy cop.  

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13 minutes ago, Godsbrother said:

I don't disagree with you on that but my point was that what the President and Republican party is doing right now is something we've never seen by either party.   I guess we aren't going to agree on that so I'll just drop it.  

Fine.  But so what?  Dems did it in 2016 you're just mad cause the republicans are, in your mind, doing it more.  Too bad.   It's sucks when the side you are against does things you don't like.  I get it.  I HATED the response to the 2016 I saw from the left.  And I don't remember Americans that identify with any party acting like that before.   Thought it was childish.  I hate this too.  Trump won in 2016, Biden won in 2020.  Let's move on.  We have a pandemic to deal with.

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2 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Im sorry you don't remember.  That was 4 years ago and I have moved on.   I will continue to consistently call out the absolute hypocrisy I see on this board.

Know how Sho is the board cop?  Well I'm nominating myself as the hypocrisy cop.  

Sounds good.  You're going to a busy fella!  

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5 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Im sorry you don't remember.  That was 4 years ago and I have moved on.   I will continue to consistently call out the absolute hypocrisy I see on this board.

Know how Sho is the board cop?  Well I'm nominating myself as the hypocrisy cop.  

Are you going to call it out on both sides??

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Just now, supermike80 said:

Im sorry you don't remember.  That was 4 years ago and I have moved on.   I will continue to consistently call out the absolute hypocrisy I see on this board.

Know how Sho is the board cop?  Well I'm nominating myself as the hypocrisy cop.  

Well for it to be hypocritical, you have to be able to cite all the lawsuits filed by the Clinton campaign, Democratic Party, States, etc to overturn a recent Presidential election.
 

Of course there is hypocrisy on both sides. Humans are always hypocritical. For example, it’s hypocritical of you to frame this as the left whines about Trump winning and are mad now that the role is reversed. You should have also framed it as Trump won in 2016 and the left had to deal with it. Now in 2020 Biden has won and the right needs to del with it. The world is all hypocrisy but what we need to do is focus on current situations at hand and examine their content.

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36 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

At what point does it go beyond being angry and upset and into break stuff mode? How many lawsuits have to be dismissed or conspiracy theories debunked? That’s just what I’m wondering because here we are a month after the ballots have been tabulated and we don’t seem any closer to having come to an acceptance of the outcome. I’ve found it very hard to have any optimism about the state of the county the last 5 years or so and it’s getting worse, not better imo.

I think this hits the nail on the head.  The 2016 election, 2020 election, future elections, they're all just footnotes in the grand scheme.  This country is ####ed in the head right now, and as much as we can beg for grace or civility, it ain't gonna matter.  Sure, on a micro level, we should all be civil to one another.  On a macro level, that went out the window years ago.

No matter which way this ends, there will be a very significant portion of Americans who believe the election results are invalid.  It's merely just the latest boil-over point in what has been building and will continue to build at the country becomes more fractured.  I think the actual amount of people who are considering some sort of armed revolt are very minimal, but I don't actually know what happens next.  Either way, as much as Obama, or Biden, or whoever preaches "let's all come together" - despite maybe having the most genuine of intentions - it's not gonna happen.  That ship has sailed.

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Just now, Ilov80s said:

Well for it to be hypocritical, you have to be able to cite all the lawsuits filed by the Clinton campaign, Democratic Party, States, etc to overturn a recent Presidential election.
 

Of course there is hypocrisy on both sides. Humans are always hypocritical. For example, it’s hypocritical of you to frame this as the left whines about Trump winning and are mad now that the role is reversed. You should have also framed it as Trump won in 2016 and the left had to deal with it. Now in 2020 Biden has won and the right needs to del with it. The world is all hypocrisy but what we need to do is focus on current situations at hand and examine their content.

Again, you're missing the point.   Lawsuts etc may be new( I am not remotely interested in looking it up or googling that) but the rejection of election results is not new and "the left" made fools of themselves in 2016 and were utterly embarrassing on so many levels.  

If you're mad cause the right is doing it differently, or using a different method than the left did, well boo hoo.  The options are available to them and they are using it.  Welcome to the Unites States of Ameerica.

Remember the adage..The left operates on emotion...which was on display massively in 2016.  The right uses logic...the courts, the legal system.

You may not like it but you should.  because if the courts continue to reject the legal arguments of the right...Your entire premise is shattered. That should improve American's faith in the election process because we have a court system that rules on law.  And if the courts see Trump as the victor through lawsuits, again, your faith in the system should be enhanced.      

 

Thanks for listening to my Ted Talk.  You're welcome.

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5 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

I always have..always.  At least I like to think I have.  Because I believe bof sidez do it.

Cool - I'm all for calling out both sides for hypocrisy, just find it funny when people turn a blind eye to one side.

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2 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Again, you're missing the point.   Lawsuts etc may be new( I am not remotely interested in looking it up or googling that) but the rejection of election results is not new and "the left" made fools of themselves in 2016 and were utterly embarrassing on so many levels.  

If you're mad cause the right is doing it differently, or using a different method than the left did, well boo hoo.  The options are available to them and they are using it.  Welcome to the Unites States of Ameerica.

Remember the adage..The left operates on emotion...which was on display massively in 2016.  The right uses logic...the courts, the legal system.

You may not like it but you should.  because if the courts continue to reject the legal arguments of the right...Your entire premise is shattered. That should improve American's faith in the election process because we have a court system that rules on law.  And if the courts see Trump as the victor through lawsuits, again, your faith in the system should be enhanced.      

 

Thanks for listening to my Ted Talk.  You're welcome.

You may lose a little credibility saying the right uses logic when they trot Rudy out as their top lawyer.  

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Just now, yak651 said:

You may lose a little credibility saying the right uses logic when they trot Rudy out as their top lawyer.  

Well that's just silly stuff.  Whatever.  Unimportant information.  

Remember Michael Avenatti?     Hypocrisy my man.  You do it and you don't even see it.

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7 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

I always have..always.  At least I like to think I have.  Because I believe bof sidez do it.

Both sides do it, but on the Democratic side it’s a few extremists who are either ignored or rejected. On the Republican side it’s the majority of the party including its leader. 

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42 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

I dunno..Should we start with one?  Maybe there shouldn't be any?   "The left" ,since generalizations seem to be the focus today, don't get to do SOME stuff, then say "well we can do some stuff but the right is doing a lot of MORE stuff and therefore they are bad"   Wah wah wah.   I reject the idea that when the left does it, it's ok because the right did it more.  That's just silly to me. 

are you really comparing a few opinion pieces from media hacks with 40-50 actual lawsuits?  come on now.  You have to know these are not the same.

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1 minute ago, supermike80 said:

Again, you're missing the point.   Lawsuts etc may be new( I am not remotely interested in looking it up or googling that) but the rejection of election results is not new and "the left" made fools of themselves in 2016 and were utterly embarrassing on so many levels.  

If you're mad cause the right is doing it differently, or using a different method than the left did, well boo hoo.  The options are available to them and they are using it.  Welcome to the Unites States of Ameerica.

Remember the adage..The left operates on emotion...which was on display massively in 2016.  The right uses logic...the courts, the legal system.

You may not like it but you should.  because if the courts continue to reject the legal arguments of the right...Your entire premise is shattered. That should improve American's faith in the election process because we have a court system that rules on law.  And if the courts see Trump as the victor through lawsuits, again, your faith in the system should be enhanced.      

 

Thanks for listening to my Ted Talk.  You're welcome.

Ok we will agree to partially agree. I do think a lot of people were embarrassing themselves during 2016 when it comes to Trump and the election. I also agree the courts defending the county is a good thing. However, for the strength of the country, as Tasker pointed out, it’s not just that the courts need to rule X, it’s that the significant majority of citizens need to have faith in the courts decision of X. That’s the part I’m worried about. The Obama-Trump-Biden years have seen our country really change from a disagreement of policy to a disagreement of character and morality which seems needed towards a disagreement of reality.

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1 minute ago, timschochet said:

Both sides do it, but on the Democratic side it’s a few extremists who are either ignored or rejected. On the Republican side it’s the majority of the party including its leader. 

I won't report this, because I will never report anything.  But to the board mods, is it fair to say "the majority of the republican party" like that?  I thought these sort of irresponsible blanket generalizations were not to be done here?

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1 minute ago, supermike80 said:

I won't report this, because I will never report anything.  But to the board mods, is it fair to say "the majority of the republican party" like that?  I thought these sort of irresponsible blanket generalizations were not to be done here?

The leader of the Republican Party believes, without evidence, that the election was stolen. The majority of Republicans agree with him. I think these are extreme positions. I’m not generalizing at all. But by all means feel free to report me. By declaring that you won’t but by asking the mods about it in the same post you make your intent very clear. 

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6 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Ok we will agree to partially agree. I do think a lot of people were embarrassing themselves during 2016 when it comes to Trump and the election. I also agree the courts defending the county is a good thing. However, for the strength of the country, as Tasker pointed out, it’s not just that the courts need to rule X, it’s that the significant majority of citizens need to have faith in the courts decision of X. That’s the part I’m worried about. The Obama-Trump-Biden years have seen our country really change from a disagreement of policy to a disagreement of character and morality which seems needed towards a disagreement of reality.

Totally agree.   And I am a willing to almost absolutely guarantee who ever wins in in 2024 there will be attempts to block, subvert, change the results.

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Just now, timschochet said:

The leader of the Republican Party believes, without evidence, that the election was stolen. The majority of Republicans agree with him. I think these are extreme positions. I’m not generalizing at all. But by all means feel free to report me. By declaring that you won’t but by asking the mods about it in the same post you make your intent very clear. 

Told you I don't report.  Ever.  Just thought this kind of garbage was being avoided here.  Might be only certain posters.

And the mods have said they don't check threads regularly and if you want their attention, you have to report things.  So they said anyway.

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11 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Well that's just silly stuff.  Whatever.  Unimportant information.  

Remember Michael Avenatti?     Hypocrisy my man.  You do it and you don't even see it.

I think you are confusing not being hypocritical with whataboutism. You don't have to call out both sides all the time. When it is the Republicans doing terrible things it is ok to call them out, when it is the Democrats doing terrible things it is ok to call them out. You don't always have to bring up 2016 when talking about 2020, if the current discussion is about 2020.

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Just now, tymarsas said:

I think you are confusing not being hypocritical with whataboutism. You don't have to call out both sides all the time. When it is the Republicans doing terrible things it is ok to call them out, when it is the Democrats doing terrible things it is ok to call them out. You don't always have to bring up 2016 when talking about 2020, if the current discussion is about 2020.

You get to decide this why?

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4 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Told you I don't report.  Ever.  Just thought this kind of garbage was being avoided here.  Might be only certain posters.

And the mods have said they don't check threads regularly and if you want their attention, you have to report things.  So they said anyway.

OK. Thanks for reminding me why I normally don’t respond to you. I’ll try harder to remember that in the future. 

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22 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Well that's just silly stuff.  Whatever.  Unimportant information.  

Remember Michael Avenatti?     Hypocrisy my man.  You do it and you don't even see it.

Michael Avenatti represented a porn star.  Guliani represents the president.  Not the same.

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Just now, moleculo said:

Michael Avenatti represented a porn star.  Guliani represents the president.  Not the same.

No one said they were the same.  They both ruin the credibility of the party they represent (or represented --since Avenetti is now in jail--unless covid let him out-- I cant keep track of the crook) however.  

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1 minute ago, supermike80 said:

No one said they were the same.  They both ruin the credibility of the party they represent (or represented --since Avenetti is now in jail--unless covid let him out-- I cant keep track of the crook) however.  

Avenetti never represented the democrat party or any of it's leadership.  He was a media darling for a minute but he had no formal relationship AFAIK.

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1 minute ago, supermike80 said:

No one said they were the same.  They both ruin the credibility of the party they represent (or represented --since Avenetti is now in jail--unless covid let him out-- I cant keep track of the crook) however.  

It's a shame that Stormy ruined her credibility by associating with Avenetti.  Neither one represent the Democratic party though

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24 minutes ago, timschochet said:
29 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

I won't report this, because I will never report anything.  But to the board mods, is it fair to say "the majority of the republican party" like that?  I thought these sort of irresponsible blanket generalizations were not to be done here?

The leader of the Republican Party believes, without evidence, that the election was stolen. The majority of Republicans agree with him. I think these are extreme positions. I’m not generalizing at all. But by all means feel free to report me. By declaring that you won’t but by asking the mods about it in the same post you make your intent very clear.

As of yesterday, 21 Congressional Republicans out of hundreds acknowledge that Trump lost the election.  I think it's fair to categorize that as "the majority".

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4 minutes ago, Godsbrother said:

It's a shame that Stormy ruined her credibility by associating with Avenetti.  Neither one represent the Democratic party though

Um....Taken from Wikipedia:

Avenatti expressed interest in running for President of the United States in 2020; he started a political action committee,[77][78] and held his first fundraiser at the Democratic Wing Ding in August.[79] In September 2018, Avenatti said he would run in 2020 only against Trump or Pence.[80] On November 1, 2018, Avenatti released his first political ad, which urged Americans to vote on November 6, 2018;[81] The Washington Post ranked him a top 15 contender.

Soooo....that seems to at least have some democratic party influecne at the time. Just sayin.  But that's enough on him I think

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