TRUMP TO INFINITY AND BEYOND HQ - The Great and Positive Place (12 Viewers)

apalmer said:

That's what we heard about the recount in Georgia. That's what we heard about the Kraaken case in Michigan, the voter fraud in Wisconsin case and Rudy's brilliant lawyering in PA.  At some point, doesn't reality have to set in? Every time some wacko pushes a new unsupported theory, it's "going to be interesting" or "The big one". I guess you can fool some of the people all of the time.

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Mr. Ham said:

mcintyre1 said:

Honestly I'd have a lot of concerns about tying voting to your ability to afford a cell phone. IMO that's an even worse version of requiring photo IDs in order to vote (effectively requiring that people have the money to acquire a state issued ID).

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Not mandatory. Optional and encouraged. Download an app. Confirm your vote on both voting machine screen and phone. Hit confirm on phone. Blockchain is immutable, so you know results cannot be altered or falsely recorded without immediate awareness.

An app would allow election officials to confirm that those votes that were validated match at the device level to what was cast and in the blockchain ledger. Even if half did this, it would flag variances between confirmed and unconfirmed votes and illuminate irregularities.

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knowledge dropper said:

Management closed the thread where they aired their Trump grievances unabated for four years after a similar Biden thread was started and locked. Now they just congregate in the ONE pro-Trump thread. 

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sho nuff said:

This depends on what you mean.  Because too often "the Russian story" gets made it to be things it never was.

But why would anyone entertain stories about Russian interference in our election...because it is a proven fact that it actually happened.  

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Mr. Ham said:

For the same reason Trump is pardoning Assange. Trump’s campaign collaborated with Russia.

We know for certain that Trump’s campaign manager, now in prison, shared polling data with a Russian spy. We also know through Mueller Report that Trump personally knew in advance that Assange would leak emails illegally and was supportive. Based on Stone commutation, it’s more than likely Stone coordinated on timing. Remember emails were leaked within minutes of Access Hollywood. And of course Don Jr. hosted a meeting to discuss coordinating on hacked Hillary emails. All along, Trump was pursuing a tower deal in Moscow. 

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Gr00vus said:

34 indictments, seven guilty pleas, five prison sentences

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Drunken Cowboy said:

And political pressure to impede and then ultimately shut down the investigation. 

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urbanhack said:

Which one of the legal cases was successful?

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Gr00vus said:

34 indictments, seven guilty pleas, five prison sentences

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knowledge dropper said:

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1153997249497772032?s=21

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Mr. Ham said:

Not mandatory. Optional and encouraged. Download an app. Confirm your vote on both voting machine screen and phone. Hit confirm on phone. Blockchain is immutable, so you know results cannot be altered or falsely recorded without immediate awareness.

An app would allow election officials to confirm that those votes that were validated match at the device level to what was cast and in the blockchain ledger. Even if half did this, it would flag variances between confirmed and unconfirmed votes and illuminate irregularities.

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timschochet said:

Mo Brooks is planning to lead a House objection to the electoral results on January 6. If one senator joins him, there will be a full blown debate and vote. McConnell had a call with Republican senators yesterday trying to convince them not to join as any floor debate and vote might have disastrous results for 2022. But Trump is pushing for it and calling allies. According to the NYT, the most likely senator to join Brooks is a new one, Tommy Tuberville, who was not part of McConnell’s call. 
 

And this will all happen a day AFTER the Georgia election. What a mess. 

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Witz said:

Even if a Republican senator stepped forward to join Brooks for any of the states, and even after they ‘debate’ it for up to two hours, both houses would have to vote in unison to reject the electors which won’t happen. The end result will be the same either way - it’s just a question on how they wish to be viewed going forward (which McConnell knows this which is why he was asking what he was asking of them).  

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JAA said:

IMHO blockchain is a horrible idea for anything that is personally valuable (yes, that includes money).

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tymarsas said:

JAA said:

IMHO blockchain is a horrible idea for anything that is personally valuable (yes, that includes money).

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Off topic, but I am really curious why you say that?

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JAA said:

There are a number of examples of this.

From an operational standpoint, wallets are inherently dangerous:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin#Wallets.  Meaning, once you lose your keys you are done.  If someone gets your keys you are done.  There is no recourse.  Part of the benefits of our system is recourse.  Even the FDIC is valuable.  Back on point, could you imagine an app you use to manage your wallet gets compromised?  Or the hardware your wallet is on gets compromised?  Example:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin#Security_issues

Next, take a look how forks work.  I dont like forks, I dont like how they come about, or how the decisions are made.  In addition, the more forks the more of this:  https://www.vice.com/en/article/qvakp3/a-major-bug-in-bitcoin-software-could-have-crashed-the-currency

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urbanhack said:

JAA said:

There are a number of examples of this.

From an operational standpoint, wallets are inherently dangerous:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin#Wallets.  Meaning, once you lose your keys you are done.  If someone gets your keys you are done.  There is no recourse.  Part of the benefits of our system is recourse.  Even the FDIC is valuable.  Back on point, could you imagine an app you use to manage your wallet gets compromised?  Or the hardware your wallet is on gets compromised?  Example:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin#Security_issues

Next, take a look how forks work.  I dont like forks, I dont like how they come about, or how the decisions are made.  In addition, the more forks the more of this:  https://www.vice.com/en/article/qvakp3/a-major-bug-in-bitcoin-software-could-have-crashed-the-currency

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There so much more that you are missing.

https://fortune.com/2017/02/28/ethereum-jpmorgan-microsoft-alliance/ 

https://decrypt.co/36990/large-companies-building-on-ethereum

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JAA said:

I've been in software my entire career and it never fails to astound me how much people trust software.

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Mr. Ham said:

I know. I’m suggesting a national technology standard with a Telco identity component and infrastructure be developed, to make smart phones, immutable distributed databases, and an app more integral to increase transparency and essentially eliminate fraud. Makes too much sense to be adopted in the United States. 

Your vote should be more like a physical good in a supply chain that can be traced and monitored for assurance. 

If this were to happen, we wouldn’t rely on code in individual black box machines to record our votes. The hardware at polls would be standardized and would serve more to broker identity and record decisions made in tamper proof peer-to-peer smart contracts where all peers ran the same open source code.

Main practical reason physical presence would be needed at all would be to prevent aggressive husband from watching to make sure his wife votes per his wishes. Anonymity of the vote is important. In fact, one hard to deal with detail would be social pressure to prove via showing the app that you voted a certain way. In in other words, Mildred knows when she gets home if Carl insists she open the app to show how she voted, it’d be hard to hide. 

We’d be able to reverse engineer that selections made by each individual voting session mapped to the metadata in the app, and that multiple entities on the network confirm the linkage between selections in the app and the candidates.

All sounds complex, but from a user standpoint, you log into a network and open an app that could even be installed as mandatory on devices, enter a password given to you when you register, and cast votes. Or confirm choices made on a physical machine linked to your active session. So get on network, vote, confirm, and then after you vote you can monitor the vote downstream as it’s officially registered.

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timschochet said:

Exactly. He doesn’t want these guys to have to have their votes on record where they could either get primaried if they reject Trump or slammed in the general election if they support overturning the election results. 

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Mr. Ham said:

You misunderstand how open source distributed tech, immutable ledgers, and smart contracts work. It’s the opposite of a single entity operating in a propriety closed system. It’s highly secure and transparent. There is no centralized point of control. That’s the point. 

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Mr. Ham said:

You misunderstand how open source distributed tech, immutable ledgers, and smart contracts work. It’s the opposite of a single entity operating in a propriety closed system. It’s highly secure and transparent. There is no centralized point of control. That’s the point. 

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Mr. Ham said:

JAA said:

There are a number of examples of this.

From an operational standpoint, wallets are inherently dangerous:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin#Wallets.  Meaning, once you lose your keys you are done.  If someone gets your keys you are done.  There is no recourse.  Part of the benefits of our system is recourse.  Even the FDIC is valuable.  Back on point, could you imagine an app you use to manage your wallet gets compromised?  Or the hardware your wallet is on gets compromised?  Example:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin#Security_issues

Next, take a look how forks work.  I dont like forks, I dont like how they come about, or how the decisions are made.  In addition, the more forks the more of this:  https://www.vice.com/en/article/qvakp3/a-major-bug-in-bitcoin-software-could-have-crashed-the-currency

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Big difference between crypto-based blockchains and enterprise blockchains for supply chains. You can argue semantics as to whether the latter is a blockchain, but I’m not referring to wallets. I’m referring to hardware-based encryption keys tied to the physical servers and voting machines, on a private p2p network. Would use proof of stake and not work. No mining or complex consensus. Basically extracting the distributed immutable p2p database and identity from blockchain and using it to independently record results in a way that can be parsed with data in other databases to ensure fidelity.

Hardware encryption between poll and shared network maintained by carriers could register an abstracted link between device and account with APIs validation the phone is owned by an account holder on a known device linked to a physical address in a state. Carriers would adopt a shared identity standard. Could link voting results to that device, so if subpoenaed, carriers could confirm linkage between known individuals and votes cast, without having to divulge actual identities. They could simply confirm there was a minimum six month billing history tied to an address, and that more than one device wasn’t used to vote per individual.

Traditional means would be used to confirm that a voter didn’t vote both my mail and at the polls.

If 100% of votes were cast this way, the only way of gaming it at scale would require a massive conspiracy involving carriers, many thousands of physical devices, many thousands of people able to register per their state rules, and valid paid accounts for six plus months tied to each. Essentially impossible.

If this were the way people voted, they wouldn’t need to use machines at all. They could just be given an open session in the poll network through the app when they physically showed at a poll, and the whole thing could be done in app. 

Edited 3 hours ago by Mr. Ham

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Redwes25 said:

Let just go back to these things and get rid of tech - https://images.app.goo.gl/d66pUNSJkWcg9PpX6

NY state used these things up until like 10 years ago amd I personally loved them as remeber going in one of them with Mom as a kid.  

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Fovea capitis said:

These things always looked like torture devices to me as a kid

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Mr. Ham said:

Ilov80s said:

All this fancy techno voting stuff you are talking about has to done on a State by State level. Sure they could enter into a partnership like many did for Common Core assessments but look how that turned out. They couldn’t all agree so you had 2 different groups of States making 2 different tests. Both were over complicated and many of the States ended up dropping out near the end to just make their own. You can’t issue a National voting system without a Constitutional amendment.

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I know. I’m suggesting a national technology standard with a Telco identity component and infrastructure be developed, to make smart phones, immutable distributed databases, and an app more integral to increase transparency and essentially eliminate fraud. Makes too much sense to be adopted in the United States. 

Your vote should be more like a physical good in a supply chain that can be traced and monitored for assurance. 

If this were to happen, we wouldn’t rely on code in individual black box machines to record our votes. The hardware at polls would be standardized and would serve more to broker identity and record decisions made in tamper proof peer-to-peer smart contracts where all peers ran the same open source code.

Main practical reason physical presence would be needed at all would be to prevent all flavors of (example) aggressive husband from watching to make sure his wife votes per his wishes. Anonymity of the vote is important. In fact, one hard to deal with detail would be social pressure to prove via showing the app that you voted a certain way. In in other words, Mildred knows when she gets home if Carl insists she open the app to show how she voted, it’d be hard to hide. 

We’d be able to reverse engineer that selections made by each individual voting session mapped to the metadata in the app, and that multiple entities on the network confirm the linkage between selections in the app and the candidates.

All sounds complex, but from a user standpoint, you log into a network and open an app that could even be installed as mandatory on devices, enter a password given to you when you register, and cast votes. Or confirm choices made on a physical machine linked to your active session. So get on network, vote, confirm, and then after you vote you can monitor the vote downstream as it’s officially registered.

__
Anyway, pipe dream, because you can only fix the problems when the major parties want it fixed. Practically speaking though, it could be for a reasonable cost.

And if that voting app were a mandatory install that couldn’t be deleted, it could even send push notifications to remind voters of elections and offer polling locations, registration, and more.

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Mr. Ham said:

I find it interesting and a little disheartening that Americans are late to adopt tech compared to Europe and much of Asia. When you ride international subways, you put your ticket in the turnstile at the exit. We don’t do that here, because the assumption is we can’t seem to get it together when solutions rely on Americans being organized. But if you look at say toll roads, we are slowly but surely living in a words where to comply you need to use technology.

So whereas it seems like it would be a big gate to require voters to use an app as primary means of voting (provisional ballots could be submitted in other ways,) I’d like to see us at least aspire to impose a process that’s no more difficult than logging into any wifi network and checking Facebook. We’re taking about 30 seconds of extra effort, and I don’t have access to the statistics, but have to imagine 90% of voters have a smartphone with them at the polls. 

Tech support would be available at the polls.

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Mr. Ham said:

Ilov80s said:

It is disheartening but I do think the reality is that all the people who don’t trust our election process now would quadruple in their distrust if it all went over to some kind of app operated by a single corporation or entity. That’s just how a lot of Americans are- full of distrust and worried everyone is trying to take something from them.

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You misunderstand how open source distributed tech, immutable ledgers, and smart contracts work. It’s the opposite of a single entity operating in a propriety closed system. It’s highly secure and transparent. There is no centralized point of control. That’s the point. 

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Mr. Ham said:

Mr. Ham said:

Let’s say decision was made and adopted, it wound be opt in by state. Let’s say a constitutional amendment made it a federal requirement (not likely.) You don’t implement all at once. It would be rolled out in waves over multiple years with targets to have more users on the system each year. Since initially a minority use the new system, the majority have to be enabled to vote using the current systems. What you’re trying to do is modernize and phase out legacy over say a decade. 

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With a little funding, consortium could be pulled together to design and test system within weeks. Hackers could be brought in to try to exploit. Pending interation, production system could be live in months, complete with business case in 3 months. All for a half million.

Edited 1 hour ago by Mr. Ham

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Mr. Ham said:

JAA said:

Im no blockchain expert, but I do know software and operations.  The bolded would be impossible and require a scale never seen before in the history of the world.

Regarding the underlined, this is exactly what we have today if you replace carrier with pollster.



Ill reiterate my opinion here ... we dont have a technology problem, we have a butthurt people problem.  There is nothing inherently wrong with our process.  What's even best about our solution is that it is distributed to the states, each having their own method of election.  That's powerful.  Frankly, thats how blockchain works ... through "information immutability".

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There are systems live right now writing billions of individual advertising transactions to a side chain (Ethereum), then batching summary data through a proof of stake algorithm to a main chain, which is just the ledger. It’s sold as a SaaS and is low cost (sub penny per ad served.) No different scale. Ledger would interact with APIs to other databases. It’s main use is having an independent ledger that ensures parity with other databases as votes move across chain of custody. It could scale quite easily.

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And I do think we have a transparency problem. Why can’t I trace my vote across a chain of custody in a age when I know exactly where my package  or delivery food is?

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Redwes25 said:

Let just go back to these things and get rid of tech - https://images.app.goo.gl/d66pUNSJkWcg9PpX6

NY state used these things up until like 10 years ago amd I personally loved them as remeber going in one of them with Mom as a kid.  

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JAA said:

Right, because people completely trust Bitcoin.  So much that all industries accept it as a currency.  Please stop with the immutable ledger talk, its not practical in this scenario.

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Mr. Ham said:

JAA said:

Did you just say "3 months".  Please make it stop GB

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I’ve led teams that build MVPs in 3 months that scaled into production, and are now deployed at scale... including one of the biggest enterprise blockchain networks.

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Mr. Ham said:

JAA said:

Are you comparing the completely transactional nature of ad's to individual and personalized voting?

And why you cant trace your vote is because they are supposed to be anonymous.  What is it you exactly want to trace that you aren't getting today?

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What I’m suggesting is a neutral, decentralized, and open source infrastructure that traces votes through chain of custody and ensures the votes don’t change from what what initially recorded. Tied to an identify component linking to mobile device and billing address to a voter registration and verified by providers through an anonymized obfuscation layer. The state doesn’t have record of the linkage between device and address, for privacy. 

Solves transparency problems from the lens of the voter, as well as validating voters haven’t cast more than one vote and are connected to the address from which they registered through a mobile bill. 

Your assertion that the infrastructure to support isn’t scalable is contradicted by use cases that deploy side chains to capture data and then write in batches to main chains. It’s feasible from an architectural and cost perspective.

I think we agree we don’t mainly have a technology problem. 

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Mr. Ham said:

If I provided answers, you’d know my employer.

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Mr. Ham said:

Ironically, I’m a technologist and have a good sense of how we could vastly improve our elections by trying post-paid mobile accounts and devices to an anonymized identity scheme that would virtually end fraud, or at least make it quite evident if it were to occur. It would essentially rely on someone with at least a six month billing history conforming their vote at the poll when it was connected through an app to a voting machine using an encrypted network connection. Upon confirmation, results would be written both to the server at the poll and a blockchain ledger, which should match. If the confirmed votes differed from the ledger, it would be immediately apparent, and results could be audited at the device level through carrier records if legally required.

Post paid requirement would prevent even allegations that someone bought a bunch of burner phones and established fake accounts, as it would cost hundreds of bucks and months of planning per device to orchestrate.

There are ways to eliminate nearly every vulnerability and restore complete trust.

I had a call with one of the Democratic candidates last year who was seeking to pilot something similar. 

Want to know who would make sure this absolutely doesn’t happen at scale?
 

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Mr. Ham said:

I suggested post paid, and you have good points about say MVNOs being competent enough to comply with backend requirements. But having a pre-installed app with end to end encryption could solve malware concerns. Even if you were fooled into launching the wrong app, it wouldn’t authenticate. 

There would have to be an onboarding and governance process for each poll location registering and having a hardware based encryption key, so ensure data coming from polls was genuine.

All moot. It’s an academic exercise. To change a system, the stakeholder need to want change. It’s simply not in the cards for a long time out. 

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GroveDiesel said:

And really? We’re going to trust cellphone companies to be a major lynchpin in our voting system? I can’t think of too many industries I trust less as a whole.

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gianmarco said:

Trump's Mar a Lago neighbors don't want him back

Oops?

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JAA said:

Great post.  We agree there isnt a technology problem.  I promise to stop questions, I promise!  Tell me about your endpoints?  Im guessing cloud based (AWS/Azure), but pubic cloud?  OK, tell me about authentication and authorization?

I gotta check of this conversation, I dont come here to talk work!!!

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Georgia Governor Brian Kemp has bemoaned continued attacks leveled at him, his wife and his children over the election results.

Kemp came under fire from President Donald Trump and his supporters following November 3, as the commander-in-chief disputed the state's results.

Two recounts both found Joe Biden to have received the most votes.

On Monday, the state's Electoral College votes went in Biden's favor. This came as the majority of Electoral College votes from across the nation went his way.

"It has gotten ridiculous," Kemp said, The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported, commenting on continued attacks.

He then referenced death threats, allegations of bribes from China and attacks on social media leveled at his children. He specifically mentioned his daughter Lucy being targeted with conspiracy theories linked to the death of her boyfriend Harrison Deal, who died in a traffic accident earlier this month.

On those taking issue with the election outcome, he added: "If anybody has an issue with something I've done, they need to come see me and I'll talk to them about it. They don't need to bother my wife or my children or anybody.

"I can assure you I can handle myself. And if they're brave enough to come out from underneath that keyboard or behind it, we can have a little conversation if they would like to."

Trump and his allies have previously looked to invalidate Georgia's election results, filing lawsuits in the state to this end. While Kemp has come under fire from Trump directly, he said that as far as he was aware his relationship with the president is "fine," and said he was simply following "the laws and the Constitution and the Constitution of this state."

After details of threats towards people involved in the election in Georgia were highlighted previously, Tim Murtaugh, the Trump campaign communications manager, said the Trump campaign condemned any such action.

"The campaign is focused on ensuring that all legal votes are counted and all illegal votes are not. No one should engage in threats or violence, and if that has happened, we condemn that fully," he said in a previous statement.

https://www.newsweek.com/georgia-gov-brian-kemp-snaps-election-conspiracy-target-children-1555829?utm_source=pushnami&utm_medium=Push_Notifications&utm_campaign=automatic&UTM=1608298964749

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