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TRUMP TO INFINITY AND BEYOND HQ - The Great and Positive Place (5 Viewers)

Wait what?  You're blaming the CV in this country on Trump and his media (Who, exactly, is his media)?
Many of the deaths are directly Trump’s fault and responsibility. We’ll never know how many could have been prevented with a competent President. I suspect about half or more. 

 
No spin.  

400k dead.

Could have been a lot less had he and trump media not lied about it for the first few months
Great talking point but not fact. Your guy would have left borders open for way too long killing many. Sorry for the spoiler but no one was stopping it after China hid it. 

 
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Many of the deaths are directly Trump’s fault and responsibility. We’ll never know how many could have been prevented with a competent President. I suspect about half or more. 
That's a lot of speculation and projection.  I'd say all of the deaths are China's fault for trying to hide it and allow travel when they knew it existed.

I do think Trump should have shut down all borders very quickly but I don't blame him for the deaths. 

 
That's a lot of speculation and projection.  I'd say all of the deaths are China's fault for trying to hide it and allow travel when they knew it existed.

I do think Trump should have shut down all borders very quickly but I don't blame him for the deaths. 
We’ve had this debate before and obviously we disagree. I won’t repeat my previous arguments but I will make two additional points: first it’s not either or. China can be responsible, Trump can be responsible, Cuomo can be responsible. Anyone who deliberately made bad decisions should be blamed. 
Second, I believe we’re going to learn more and more over the coming months about Trump’s incompetence, his deceitfulness on this issue and his refusal to alter his actions even as things got worse. And it’s going to be much more difficult to try and come up with defenses for him. 

 
That's a lot of speculation and projection.  I'd say all of the deaths are China's fault for trying to hide it and allow travel when they knew it existed.

I do think Trump should have shut down all borders very quickly but I don't blame him for the deaths. 
This is the reality of it but the Left was desperate for anything to use politically and it worked in their favor perfectly. Project all the blame to Trump and don’t disclose the vaccines until right after the election. Sad but extremely effective. 

 
This is the reality of it but the Left was desperate for anything to use politically and it worked in their favor perfectly. Project all the blame to Trump and don’t disclose the vaccines until right after the election. Sad but extremely effective. 
Are you suggesting the "Left" was in control of the vaccines somehow and could therefore control the rollout out of the vaccines?

 
Are you suggesting the "Left" was in control of the vaccines somehow and could therefore control the rollout out of the vaccines?
Are you surprised we didn’t hear anything before then the week later vaccines began appearing...not just one but multiple? You honestly don’t think there was anything political at play there? 😂

 
This is the reality of it but the Left was desperate for anything to use politically and it worked in their favor perfectly. Project all the blame to Trump and don’t disclose the vaccines until right after the election. Sad but extremely effective. 
Were other countries vaccinating their citizens before the US election?  What you are suggesting is that the left weaponized Covid against Trump and the entire world waited until after the US election to announce an effective vaccine.  

That seems hardly plausible.  I agree that the left successfully used Trump's lackluster response to Covid against him, but to suggest that the entire globe was in cahoots to hide the vaccine news until after the election is kinda Qanon level stuff, sir.

 
We’ve had this debate before and obviously we disagree. I won’t repeat my previous arguments but I will make two additional points: first it’s not either or. China can be responsible, Trump can be responsible, Cuomo can be responsible. Anyone who deliberately made bad decisions should be blamed. 
Second, I believe we’re going to learn more and more over the coming months about Trump’s incompetence, his deceitfulness on this issue and his refusal to alter his actions even as things got worse. And it’s going to be much more difficult to try and come up with defenses for him. 
Yes you will.  You didn't get to 150K posts between all your accounts by making your point and moving on. 

We already know.  Everything that goes wrong in the coming months will be blamed on Trump.  When Trump took over, the narrative was "Obama isn't in office anymore".  Now that Biden has taken over it will be "But trump.........".  We all know the playbook by now.

 
Were other countries vaccinating their citizens before the US election?  What you are suggesting is that the left weaponized Covid against Trump and the entire world waited until after the US election to announce an effective vaccine.  

That seems hardly plausible.  I agree that the left successfully used Trump's lackluster response to Covid against him, but to suggest that the entire globe was in cahoots to hide the vaccine news until after the election is kinda Qanon level stuff, sir.
Yeah, MSM leaks of good news couldn’t ever be impacted by politics.  :lmao:

 
I teach high school Statistics and distinctly remember one of my very last in-person classes in February 2020. We were watching a portion of a press conference as Covid was starting to hit the US and the then-President assured us that the virus would just go away or be contained, I don't recall the exact language but he downplayed it tremendously. One could argue that the inaction (or worse, the casual language that it would just go away) had a significant impact in the spread of the virus, the economic impact and eventually deaths. I don't think I am "projecting all of the blame on Trump" but I am saying that his mismanagement of the response and the language that he used made the situation worse.

 
This is the reality of it but the Left was desperate for anything to use politically and it worked in their favor perfectly. Project all the blame to Trump and don’t disclose the vaccines until right after the election. Sad but extremely effective. 
I agree that the left would have blamed Trump regardless of how he handled it. That being said, it's beyond silly to think he did a good job. It took him a good 4 months to finally start taking the pandemic seriously and stop downplaying it. A normal President would have taken the pandemic seriously from the beginning and would have been encouraging everyone to wear masks long before Trump finally came around on that. It's impossible to know how many more additional deaths there would have been, but there's zero doubt in my mind his behavior and words led to Americans not taking it as seriously as they should have, which is why we've become numb to thousands of Americans dying from it daily for months now. 

 
Many of the deaths are directly Trump’s fault and responsibility. We’ll never know how many could have been prevented with a competent President. I suspect about half or more. 


Don't let Cuomo hide from his coronavirus nursing-home disaster

Anthony L. Fisher Aug 14, 2020, 5:03 AM

https://www.businessinsider.com/cuomo-nursing-home-deaths-coronavirus-covid-independent-investigation-death-2020-8

Sick NY nursing home residents reportedly sent to die at hospitals amid pandemic

By Bernadette Hogan and Natalie Musumeci August 12, 2020 | 6:45pm

https://nypost.com/2020/08/12/dying-residents-of-ny-nursing-home-reportedly-sent-to-die-at-hospitals/

Blaming Trump for COVID19 deaths removes actual agency from Governors, Mayors and city leaders.

Trump is not blameless. Fauci is not blameless. Cuomo for sure is not blameless. The list is long.

 
I agree that the left would have blamed Trump regardless of how he handled it. That being said, it's beyond silly to think he did a good job. It took him a good 4 months to finally start taking the pandemic seriously and stop downplaying it. A normal President would have taken the pandemic seriously from the beginning and would have been encouraging everyone to wear masks long before Trump finally came around on that. It's impossible to know how many more additional deaths there would have been, but there's zero doubt in my mind his behavior and words led to Americans not taking it as seriously as they should have, which is why we've become numb to thousands of Americans dying from it daily for months now. 
Yeah I’m not telling you he did a good job, I just don’t believe open borders Biden playing MMQB would have done good either. 

 
Great talking point but not fact. Your guy would have left borders open for way too long killing many. Sorry for the spoiler but no one was stopping it after China hid it. 
Hilarious.  You call part of my post not factual than fabricate how bad it would have been under Biden.

and nobody said stop covid - another not fact

 
Yeah I’m not telling you he did a good job, I just don’t believe open borders Biden playing MMQB would have done good either. 
Agreed, I don't think the situation would have been perfect under any politician. I'd say at the very minimum 200,000+ deaths were gonna happen regardless unless we did a lockdown like South Korea which was never gonna happen.

Point is though, that the Democrats were wrongly going to attack Trump regardless of how he handled COVID. People might have been able to see through that but the fact that Trump also publicly did plenty of dumb things makes the Democrat side argument stronger, even though it might be coming from bad faith. 

 
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Yes you will.  You didn't get to 150K posts between all your accounts by making your point and moving on. 

We already know.  Everything that goes wrong in the coming months will be blamed on Trump.  When Trump took over, the narrative was "Obama isn't in office anymore".  Now that Biden has taken over it will be "But trump.........".  We all know the playbook by now.
You know what? I’ve really tried with you. We disagree on many things and that’s fine, but I’ve tried and tried and tried again to have discussions with you and you always make it personal, you always put words in my mouth, you’re always nasty and rude. You win; I give up. This will be my last post in response to you. Ever. Feel free to put me on ignore and then you needn’t worry about my obsessions or my number of posts. Good luck with your life. 

 
Wait what?  You're blaming the CV in this country on Trump and his media (Who, exactly, is his media)?
He isn't to blame for the virus itself.  But his handling of the situation was a disaster.  Obama had a plan in place for something like this.  Trump, like the idiot he is, did away with it.  It very well documented how he called it a hoax.

 
Do you think other countries around the world suppressed information about a successful vaccine until after the US election? That's quite a coordinated effort.  
Interesting spin but wouldn’t the drug companies that actually develop the vaccines be more significant than these countries you are worried about? 

 
Four of the best years of business I've ever had, well three, Covid was happening either way.  Not always a fan of all the rhetoric but besides business I agree with talking to adversaries like North Korea, treating China more like the threat that they are, and pulling out of these Middle East entanglements.  I remember four years ago everyone here was worried about all the wars that the unstable President Trump was going to get us into around the world.
Some great points. If you tune out the noise he did more to improve our everyday lives than any POTUS I can remember. We had to witness some unbecoming behavior from our friends on the other side but a lot  of positive that came from it that hopefully won’t be ruined. Manchin may be our savior and yes very happy to see no wars and de escalation with N Korea. 

 
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You know what? I’ve really tried with you. We disagree on many things and that’s fine, but I’ve tried and tried and tried again to have discussions with you and you always make it personal, you always put words in my mouth, you’re always nasty and rude. You win; I give up. This will be my last post in response to you. Ever. Feel free to put me on ignore and then you needn’t worry about my obsessions or my number of posts. Good luck with your life. 
That's hilarous.  Seriously.

 
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/4228139001
 

Good to see them share a positive article. Trump has left ol Joe his Keys to Success along with some signed books....there are no excuses to let the train of the rails now. 
Trump, in his speech, should have said something like "I've helped build this country up over the past 4 years and I'd hope that Joe will continue on my path.  If he does, I'd be more than happy to see the history books reflect a shared decade long string of success for Americans that was only capable of happening due to two opposing politicans working off one another"....

But he couldnt do it.  

 
Were other countries vaccinating their citizens before the US election?  What you are suggesting is that the left weaponized Covid against Trump and the entire world waited until after the US election to announce an effective vaccine.  

That seems hardly plausible.  I agree that the left successfully used Trump's lackluster response to Covid against him, but to suggest that the entire globe was in cahoots to hide the vaccine news until after the election is kinda Qanon level stuff, sir.
Covid has been a worldwide hoax to bring Trump down since May.  That's what the right was saying.  Now we have 400,000 Americans, and counting, that have died.   Roughly 300,000 Americans died in WW2.  It's evil.

 
Some great points. If you tune out the noise he did more to improve our everyday lives than any POTUS I can remember. We had to witness some unbecoming behavior from our friends on the other side but a lot  of positive that came from it that hopefully won’t be ruined. Manchin may be our savior and yes very happy to see no wars and de escalation with N Korea. 
Not sure who falls into the "our" category that you mention (bolded). Speaking strictly for myself, my everyday life has been severely negatively impacted by this administration's deficiencies.  My everyday life now involves: a massive increase in meetings to try to navigate the implications of Covid, needing to wear a mask often, putting off travel plans for the better part of the past 12 months, taking a pay cut next year to try to keep our school afloat, and trying to educate my five year old through hybrid schooling that doesn't really work well for kindergartners. I won't even get into the impact of all this on my students since our clientele tend to be emotionally fragile but let's just say that tensions have been running high in our kids and families. I did get some cash in my pocket from two stimulus checks, I'll say that, and the markets are up, true. Two things I'd be happy to give back if it meant going back to normalcy.

 
Not sure who falls into the "our" category that you mention (bolded). Speaking strictly for myself, my everyday life has been severely negatively impacted by this administration's deficiencies.  My everyday life now involves: a massive increase in meetings to try to navigate the implications of Covid, needing to wear a mask often, putting off travel plans for the better part of the past 12 months, taking a pay cut next year to try to keep our school afloat, and trying to educate my five year old through hybrid schooling that doesn't really work well for kindergartners. I won't even get into the impact of all this on my students since our clientele tend to be emotionally fragile but let's just say that tensions have been running high in our kids and families. I did get some cash in my pocket from two stimulus checks, I'll say that, and the markets are up, true. Two things I'd be happy to give back if it meant going back to normalcy.
To be fair to @GoBirds his argument is that things were improved prior to the pandemic; the things you’ve listed are due to the pandemic and not Trump’s fault. I don’t much agree with any aspect of GoBirds’ position but you’re not really addressing it. 

 
Not sure who falls into the "our" category that you mention (bolded). Speaking strictly for myself, my everyday life has been severely negatively impacted by this administration's deficiencies.  My everyday life now involves: a massive increase in meetings to try to navigate the implications of Covid, needing to wear a mask often, putting off travel plans for the better part of the past 12 months, taking a pay cut next year to try to keep our school afloat, and trying to educate my five year old through hybrid schooling that doesn't really work well for kindergartners. I won't even get into the impact of all this on my students since our clientele tend to be emotionally fragile but let's just say that tensions have been running high in our kids and families. I did get some cash in my pocket from two stimulus checks, I'll say that, and the markets are up, true. Two things I'd be happy to give back if it meant going back to normalcy.
Me specifically, I’m a small business owner and couldn’t ask for anyone to fight for us more that he did. I’m sorry to hear of your recent struggles it sounds like due to covid. I’m not one that puts a deadly virus that started in China solely on him like it sounds like you do but I am sorry to hear of the impact it’s had on you. We’ve had our challenges with our kids at home trying to keep up with school but I greatly appreciate the ability to keep my business going and not have the government come in and shut me down picking winners and losers. If he wasn’t the President this could have been the case. I have friends in NC in the bar/restaurant biz that have lost everything.....never even an opportunity to try to operate safely and maintain their livelihood. That said, I’m with you on hopefully normalcy comes soon.  :hifive:

 
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To be fair to @GoBirds his argument is that things were improved prior to the pandemic; the things you’ve listed are due to the pandemic and not Trump’s fault. I don’t much agree with any aspect of GoBirds’ position but you’re not really addressing it. 
I put a lot (but obviously not all) of the blame of the pandemic on the inadequate response by the President. Look at other countries to see how it could have played out. Are things crappy in Canada or Germany or China? Yes. But relatively speaking, the US suffered more than other developed countries. It's a matter of degrees as to how much blame one puts on the President with respect to the consequences of Covid. I put a lot on him and clearly some folks feel as though the virus was going to do what it was going to do regardless. But data from other countries does not bear that out.

 
I put a lot (but obviously not all) of the blame of the pandemic on the inadequate response by the President. Look at other countries to see how it could have played out. Are things crappy in Canada or Germany or China? Yes. But relatively speaking, the US suffered more than other developed countries. It's a matter of degrees as to how much blame one puts on the President with respect to the consequences of Covid. I put a lot on him and clearly some folks feel as though the virus was going to do what it was going to do regardless. But data from other countries does not bear that out.
I agree with you. 

 
Some great points. If you tune out the noise he did more to improve our everyday lives than any POTUS I can remember. We had to witness some unbecoming behavior from our friends on the other side but a lot  of positive that came from it that hopefully won’t be ruined. Manchin may be our savior and yes very happy to see no wars and de escalation with N Korea. 
Amen (and Awomen)

 
Yes you will.  You didn't get to 150K posts between all your accounts by making your point and moving on. 

We already know.  Everything that goes wrong in the coming months will be blamed on Trump.  When Trump took over, the narrative was "Obama isn't in office anymore".  Now that Biden has taken over it will be "But trump.........".  We all know the playbook by now.
:goodposting:

 

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